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Re: Slovak names

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  • Frank
    ... and surname. ... a SS-5 ... John, ... Slovak, and I ... rendition ... Philadelphia and ... PA for ... (from ... My ... I was ... endings of ... not Slovak.
    Message 1 of 6 , May 1 7:48 AM
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      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Mebjwb@a... wrote:
      > Hi,
      >
      > Many of you have been very helpful to me in the past, and I am again
      > requesting information. This time regarding name spelling, given
      and surname.
      >
      > I am researching Pavlik, Pavlyik, Olsavsky from Zemplen and Ung.
      >
      > I have a copy of a form OAAN-7003 requesting a change in records for
      a SS-5
      > record. On it my Grandfather has shown his Father's given name as
      John,
      > born in Austria-Hungary. My Grandparents were Roman Catholic
      Slovak, and I
      > am wondering about the "John". Can you give me the correct slovak
      rendition
      > of "John"?
      >
      > I have not been successful in locating any immigration records,
      > naturalization records, Ellis Island Records (also checked
      Philadelphia and
      > Baltimore) for either of my Grandparents. I have a question about
      > Grandmother's maiden name. I found baptismal records in Homestead,
      PA for
      > their two eldest children, and her maiden name is shown as Olsavsky
      (from
      > Ung) one time and Olsavska another time. Her death certificate says
      > "Olshowski". In Clairton, PA, church records show her as Ulsonski.
      My
      > problem is that she told me many times that they were both Slovak.
      I was
      > raised by my Grandparents and Slovak was spoken at home. The name
      endings of
      > "sky" or "ski" would indicate to me a Russian or Polish heritage,
      not Slovak.
      >
      > Can you give me any insight into this oddity. Was she of Polish or
      Russian
      > descent living in Slovakia? We lived in a very mixed ethnic
      neighborhood in
      > Ohio, and she conversed with neighbors in Hungarian, Russian and
      Polish.
      > Would someone coming from that area of Slovkia be that multilingual,
      or are
      > all these languages easily understood among the populace?
      >
      > One last question on the OAAN-7003 form. Someone has stamped in
      large
      > letters C.M..........4802 across the form. Can anyone interpret the
      meaning
      > of that for me?
      >
      > Thank you again for all your good help.
      >


      > Marge Bonifield

      Marge

      Name changes required form OAAN-7003 with supporting documentation.
      Clerical errors (mispellings, etc) required no OAAN-7003 form.

      John (E)
      Joannes (L)
      Jan, Janko (Sk)
      Jan (Cz)
      Jan (P)
      János, Jano (H)
      Johann (G)
      Ivan (Ru)(Ukr)
      (There was also a form of name Ivan (John) in Hungarian and Slovak)


      One of most common Slavic surname affixes is the one denoting gender
      of the bearer -ová (Slovak), -owa (Polish), and -oba (Russian).

      As a rule of Slovak grammar, female surnames end in -á, -ská, or -ová.
      The feminine form of the surnames is considered merely a separate form
      of same surname, not a distinct surname in itself.
      If the surname is adjectival in origin , i.e., ends in -y', the ending
      changes to -á, so that wife of pán (Mr.) C^erny' would be pani (pi)
      (Mrs.)
      C^erná and their daughter would be slec^na (sl) (Miss) C^erná
      If surname is a noun in form or origin the suffix -ová is added to it,
      e.g., pán Kovác^, pani Kovác^ová, slec^na Kovác^ová.

      Many Polish surnames end in -ski or -cki.
      In older records you sometimes read -sky (before spelling rules
      were adapted); but in recent times tendency to insist on -ski.
      Probably a possessive affix added to name which evolved from person's
      characteristics (such as 'tall, short, etc.), occupation, or place
      of residence.
      In Czech and Slovak, the -sky is akin to the Polish -ski, while -cky
      is similar to Polish -cki.

      Of course, spelling doesn't prove a surname bearer's ethnicity.

      Pre-WW I Hungary had 76 administrative districts (megye)
      Upper Zemplén megye (county), Hungary is now the eastern most
      part of Slovakia (The lower part of Zemplén megye remained in Hungary)
      The next Hungarian county to east was Ung megye, Hungary and which is
      now located in the Ukraine.

      Many emigrants lived in multi-ethnic neighborhoods and spoke many
      languages by necessity or through practice.
      As a personal example, my paternal GPs and family lived in McKees
      Rocks PA.
      GF spoke 5 languages and used Hungarian when he wanted to keep his
      conversations secret from other Slavic listeners.


      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Joe Mrnka
      Marge, I would also add that it is not unusual for Slovak surnames to include the suffix -sky . It is the masculine suffix of an adjective. While in Slovakia,
      Message 2 of 6 , May 1 5:55 PM
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        Marge,

        I would also add that it is not unusual for Slovak surnames
        to include the suffix "-sky". It is the masculine suffix of
        an adjective. While in Slovakia, I knew a fella named
        Suc^ansky. Not far from the village I lived in was the
        villages of Horna Suc^a and Dolna Suc^a and the male
        citizen of said villages would be Suc^an.
        Using the above example I wanted to show that your ancestor
        person may have been native to Olsava. This may be a town
        or a local landmark, etc.
        In Slovak the plural is -ski (long i) as opposed to the
        short i in Polish singular.

        I hope this helps.

        Joe

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      • lkocik@comcast.net
        Bill I m not sure of how to use this forum....Can I post two surnames to see if anyone recognizes them and might possibly have information on them. I have
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 11, 2005
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          Bill
          I'm not sure of how to use this forum....Can I post two surnames to see if anyone recognizes them and might possibly have information on them. I have exhausted all free internet avenues I could find. I am not comfortable paying for a researcher, ,,,ironically, being frugal is part of my heritage.
          Larry Kocik
          the names are; Kocik/Kocich and Gajdusek. The villiage of origin is Gbely, formerly Egbel.
          thank you very much -------------- Original message --------------
          Thank you very much. This will help the research tremendously, as it adds
          some opinion and position to the matter of discussion.

          ______________
          Bill Tarkulich



          -----Original Message-----
          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Dr. Joe Q
          Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 5:53 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [S-R] Brief Magyar (Hungary) Translation

          Dear Bill,

          I didn't know you wanted the whole thing, here it is:

          The abora is a building to store hay and grain that
          has a movable roof supported on four poles. The people
          adjusted the roof up and down depending upon the
          quantity of stored hay. The roof was usually
          pyramidal in shape but there were also a saddle shaped
          roofs. It [the roof] was covered with wooden shingles,
          sticks, or thatches. The roof of the abora (also
          called a cap) is held in place with pins placed in the
          holes of the upright poles. The pins were made of hard
          wood or iron. The abora rarely had walls. It was a
          characteristic building in Zempl�n, Ung, Bereg,
          Ugocsa, M�ramaros, and Szatm�r counties and was used
          by Hungarian and Ukrainian peasants. It was used by
          Romanians in M�ramaros county and in Slovak S�ros
          county. With few exceptions, it was unknown in other
          areas of the Carpathian basin.

          sz�na �s kev�s gabona t�rol�s�ra szolg�l� �p�tm�ny,
          amelynek n�gy tart�oszlopon nyugv�, mozgathat� fedele
          van. A teto"t az abor�ban t�rolt term�ny, takarm�ny
          mennyis�g�to"l f�gg�o"en szokt�k feljebb emelni vagy
          lejjebb cs�sztatni. A teto" legt�bbsz�r piramis,
          ritk�bban nyereg form�j�; fazsindellyel, - dr�nic�val
          vagy zs�ppal fedett. Az abora fedele (neve: sisak,
          sapka) a tart�oszlopokba szab�lyos k�z�nk�nt f�rt
          lyukakba illesztett kem�nyfa vagy vascsapokon
          nyugszik. Az abor�nak ritk�n van fala. A t�rt�neti
          Zempl�n, Ung, Bereg, Ugocsa, M�ramaros �s Szatm�r m.
          magyar �s ukr�n paraszts�g�nak jellegzetes �p�tm�nye.
          Haszn�lj�k a m�ramarosi rom�nok �s a s�rosi szlov�kok
          is. A K�rp�t-medence egy�b t�jain � n�h�ny sz�rv�nyos
          megjelen�s�t lesz�m�tva � az abora ismeretlen.

          ---------------------------------

          There is an illustration of it in a 14 century Czech
          bible, in the 15 century there is a drawing of one in
          [unspecified] English writing. In the new ages [after
          the Middle Ages] it was known to be used in Holland,
          Germany, Baltics, Poland, and Belarus. It seems
          certain, that the hayracks spread from Western Europe
          eastward in the middle ages. It was found in
          northeastern Hungary in the 16-17 century at the edges
          of the great Hungarian plain.

          Az abor�t a cseh Veliszl�v-biblia rajzol�ja a 14.
          sz.-ban meg�r�k�tette, de megtal�lhat� 15. sz.-i angol
          k�pes �br�zol�sokon is. Az �jkorban ismeretes volt
          holland, n�met, balti, lengyel �s belorusz ter�leteken
          is. Bizony�tottnak l�tszik, hogy az abora Ny-Eur�p�b�l
          a k�z�pkorban terjedt kelet fel�. Az abora a 14. sz.
          elej�n egy bodrogk�zi falu nevek�nt m�r ismert volt. A
          16�17. sz.-t�l adatolhat� az abora haszn�lata az �K-i
          K�rp�tokban s az Alf�ld �rintkezo" perem�n.

          ---------------------------------

          In the same area, it could be found on farms of large
          land owners. In the 19th century, Hungarian economic
          writers promoted the use of abora, but it was to no
          avail. It is also spelled abara.

          E ter�let nagy uradalmaiban is megtal�lhat� volt. A
          19. sz.-i magyar gazdas�gi �r�k eredm�nytelen�l
          propag�lt�k haszn�lat�t. Abara n�ven is ismerik.


          ---------------------------------

          Literature citations [do you need these translated
          too?]

          � Irod. Kwasn'iewski, Krist�f: Etnografia Polska
          (1965); Schier, Bruno: Hauslandschaften und
          Kulturbewegungen im �stlichen Mitteleuropa (G�ttingen,
          1966); Pal�di-Kov�cs Attila: Az abara. Egy sz�nat�rol�
          �p�tm�ny a magyar parasztok gazd�lkod�s�ban (N�pi
          Kult�ra � N�pi T�rsadalom, 1969)


          --- Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:

          > Thank you Doc. It adds some supporting framework to
          > the when and where.
          > Hopefully this information will open some doors.
          >
          > While we are speaking of Hungary, I want to
          > emphasize to the group how
          > important and relevant documents, books, essays and
          > histories of Hungary are
          > to us Slovakia researchers. There is much that can
          > be gained from reading
          > these documents, in large part because there was so
          > little written about our
          > region in particular. It was just lumped into the
          > larger works.
          >
          > In my early research, I largely ignored Hungarian
          > works, and boy that was a
          > mistake. While what is written may be small and
          > selective, it is important
          > nonetheless. Janet's reference to "Hungarian
          > Ethnography and Folklore",
          > translated into English and posted online is a
          > treasure. For certain there
          > are many other very valuable Magyar-language
          > documents that will hopefully
          > be translated someday, or perhaps we will learn to
          > read Magyar too!
          >
          > ______________
          > Bill Tarkulich
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf Of Dr. Joe Q
          > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 11:20 AM
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: RE: [S-R] Brief Magyar (Hungary)
          > Translation
          >
          > Dear Bill,
          >
          > Below is the article in the link. As was previously
          > pointed out, the sentence "Bizony�tottnak l�tszik,
          > hogy az abora Ny-Eur�p�b�l a k�z�pkorban terjedt
          > kelet
          > fel�." tells a lot. I have added the translation of
          > the other important sentences in that section which
          > I
          > have set off with dashes.
          >
          > Dr. "Q"
          >
          > ***************************
          >
          > sz�na �s kev�s gabona t�rol�s�ra szolg�l� �p�tm�ny,
          > amelynek n�gy tart�oszlopon nyugv�, mozgathat�
          > fedele
          > van. A teto"t az abor�ban t�rolt term�ny, takarm�ny
          > mennyis�g�to"l f�ggo"en szokt�k feljebb emelni vagy
          > lejjebb cs�sztatni. A teto" legt�bbsz�r piramis,
          > ritk�bban nyereg form�j�; fazsindellyel, ?
          > dr�nic�val
          > vagy zs�ppal fedett. Az abora fedele (neve: sisak,
          > sapka) a tart�oszlopokba szab�lyos k�z�nk�nt f�rt
          > lyukakba illesztett kem�nyfa vagy vascsapokon
          > nyugszik. Az abor�nak ritk�n van fala. A t�rt�neti
          > Zempl�n, Ung, Bereg, Ugocsa, M�ramaros �s Szatm�r m.
          > magyar �s ukr�n paraszts�g�nak jellegzetes
          > �p�tm�nye.
          > Haszn�lj�k a m�ramarosi rom�nok �s a s�rosi
          > szlov�kok
          > is. A K�rp�t-medence egy�b t�jain � n�h�ny
          > sz�rv�nyos
          > megjelen�s�t lesz�m�tva � az abora ismeretlen.
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          >
          > Az abor�t a cseh Veliszl�v-biblia rajzol�ja a 14.
          > sz.-ban meg�r�k�tette, de megtal�lhat� 15. sz.-i
          > angol
          > k�pes �br�zol�sokon is. Az �jkorban ismeretes volt
          > holland, n�met, balti, lengyel �s belorusz
          > ter�leteken
          > is. Bizony�tottnak l�tszik, hogy az abora
          > Ny-Eur�p�b�l
          > a k�z�pkorban terjedt kelet fel�. Az abora a 14. sz.
          > elej�n egy bodrogk�zi falu nevek�nt m�r ismert volt.
          > A
          > 16�17. sz.-t�l adatolhat� az abora haszn�lata az
          > �K-i
          > K�rp�tokban s az Alf�ld �rintkezo" perem�n.
          >
          > There is an illustration of it in a 14 century Czech
          > bible, in the 15 century there is a drawing of one
          > in
          > (unspecified) English writing. In a Czech bible from
          > the 14 century there is a picutIn the new ages
          > (after
          > the middle ages) it was known to be used in Holland,
          > Germany, Baltics, Poland, and Belorus. It seems
          > certain, that the hayracks spread from Western
          > Europe
          > eastward in the middle ages. It was found in
          > northeastern Hungary in the 16-17 century.
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          >
          > E ter�let nagy uradalmaiban is megtal�lhat� volt. A
          > 19. sz.-i magyar gazdas�gi �r�k eredm�nytelen�l
          > propag�lt�k haszn�lat�t. Abara n�ven is ismerik. �
          > Irod. Kwasn'iewski, Krist�f: Etnografia Polska
          > (1965);
          > Schier, Bruno: Hauslandschaften und Kulturbewegungen
          > im �stlichen Mitteleuropa (G�ttingen, 1966);
          > Pal�di-Kov�cs Attila: Az abara. Egy sz�nat�rol�
          > �p�tm�ny a magyar parasztok gazd�lkod�s�ban (N�pi
          > Kult�ra � N�pi T�rsadalom, 1969)
          >
          >
          >
          > --- Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...> wrote:
          >
          > > Thank you very much John. This lends some support
          > > to the side of the
          > > argument that Hay Racks were originally a Dutch
          > > invention.
          > >
          > > ______________
          > > Bill Tarkulich
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          > > Behalf Of John Venham
          > > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:59 AM
          > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Brief Magyar (Hungary)
          > > Translation
          > >
          > > Bill,
          > >
          > > The key sentence to answer your question:
          > >
          > > Bizony�tottnak l�tszik, hogy az abora Ny-Eur�p�b�l
          > a
          > > k�z�pkorban terjedt kelet fel�.
          > >
          > >
          > > It seems certain, that the hayracks spread from
          > > Western Europe eastward in the middle ages.
          > >
          > > John Venham
          > >
          > > --- Bill Tarkulich <bill.tarkulich@...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > > Brief Magyar (Hungary) Translation
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Anyone care to take a stab at this page?
          > > >
          > > > http://mek.oszk.hu/02100/02115/html/1-18.html
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > It's written in Magyar. It's about the hay
          > > > racks/obhory/abora. What I
          > > > really want to know is does the text indicate
          > > where
          > > > the racks originated?
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Thanks!
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ______________
          > > > Bill Tarkulich
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          ______________________________________________________
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        • Tom Geiss
          I have a Question about two Slovak names,. One person is LUBOMIR, and another is L UBOMIR? Also some other Slovak words , like L UDI ? Is there a reason for
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 31, 2010
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            I have a Question about two Slovak names,. One person is LUBOMIR, and another is L'UBOMIR? Also some other Slovak words , like L'UDI ?
            Is there a reason for this? Tom

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • n8de@thepoint.net
            The accented L is pronounced LY ... both are the same name, just one in Slovak, the other in Latin or Hungarian. Don Havlicek Edmore, MI
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 31, 2010
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              The 'accented' L is pronounced LY ... both are the same name, just one
              in Slovak, the other in Latin or Hungarian.

              Don Havlicek
              Edmore, MI


              Quoting Tom Geiss <tomfgurka@...>:

              > I have a Question about two Slovak names,. One person is LUBOMIR,
              > and another is L'UBOMIR? Also some other Slovak words , like L'UDI ?
              > Is there a reason for this? Tom
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
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