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Re: [S-R] Re: surname spelling changes

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  • Anne Sprentz
    Frank, Thank you.:-) I saw those Sprencz s on the EI manifests. Those could be related to my Mihaly Sprencz but without further research, I m leaving them
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 29, 2003
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      Frank,

      Thank you.:-) I saw those Sprencz's on the EI manifests. Those could be
      related to my Mihaly Sprencz but without further research, I'm leaving them
      alone. You can find the record of my Mihaly Sprencz by typing in Mihlay
      Spaner. Yeah, I know, it looks nothing like Sprencz, but Spaner is what the
      transcriber saw. And as a side note, it took me forever and a day to find
      him on the Ellis Island ship manifests, and can you believe his son took me
      months to find on the 1930 census because they had transcribe Spruetz
      instead of Sprentz.

      Spaner, Mihlay Arrival date 1 March, 1904 Port of Departure Antwerp
      age 24 single
      Magyar
      Last Residence, S A Ujhely
      Going to Dayton Oh to join brother Joe Prince 1463 W Dakota. ( who came to
      US in 1892)

      So... maybe Mihaly wanted to be like his big brother and spell his name the
      same way?? :-)) I have been in contact with Joszef's ggrandson, who has
      never said Joszef spelled it Sprencz, and I've not found him with any
      Sprencz spelling. And this ggrandson insists that Jozsef is Slovak. I've
      never found anything to prove either brother was Slovak. This ggrandson is
      older than me and has elderly family members who say Slovak, too. But.. I
      don't know at this point, and have not gotten that far back in my research
      for it to matter, really.. I'd just be happy to find Mihaly/Michael/Mike on
      the 1930 census, or find a death record for him.

      Anyhow, thanks, to you and also thanks to Thomas for replying to my post.

      Anne Sprentz

      Do you know who killed my father?
      JOHN SPRENTZ, murdered 1983 in
      Ecorse, Michigan.... see my website for
      further details.
      http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/2651/Unsolvedmurder.html
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Frank" <frankur@...>
      To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 11:27 PM
      Subject: [S-R] Re: surname spelling changes


      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Anne Sprentz" <asprentz@w...>
      > wrote:
      > > Frank,
      > > You seem knowledgeable on the Slovak and Hungarian language. I'm
      > curious to
      > > know if you can answer this.
      > >
      > >
      > > My great-grandfather was born 1879 in Satoraljaujhely, Hungary.
      > > On the Ellis Island ship manifest, he lists his name as Sprencz,
      > Mihaly in
      > > 1904
      > > On the city directories, he was listed as Mike Printz /Princz
      > 1905/1906
      > > His sons birth record lists him as Sprentz (1907)
      > > On his sons baptism record his name was spelled Sprencz. (1907)
      > > On the 1910 census, his name was spelled Printz
      > > Some records his name was spelled Prince and Sprencz, in his own
      > > handwriting. ( his dec of intent, and on a church document, both
      > written
      > > between 1909-1912)
      > >
      > > I can see the different spellings of Princz, but what I don't
      > understand is
      > > how Sprencz was interchanged with Princz? Why would that happen?
      > > His son kept the name Sprentz, the father kept it Printz.
      > >
      > > Also, if there is no cz in the Slovak Language, would that mean that
      > he
      > > could not have been Slovak? The area he was born in was once
      > Slovakia, as I
      > > understand and had a high concentration of Slovaks.
      > >
      > > Thanks.
      > > A. Sprentz
      >
      >
      > Anne,
      >
      > After the WW I peace treaty with Hungary (1920), Zemplén megye was
      > (county) was split between Hungary and Czechoslovakia around
      > Sátoraljaúhely, Hungary.
      > Part remained in Hungary and the rest became part of Slovakia
      > (Zemplin z^upa)
      > Many emigrants changed names after they had settled in the U.S.
      > Emigration service didn't make them change their surnames.
      > Some did it to sound more American and others for any number of
      > reasons.
      >
      > By no Slovak letter 'cz' I meant that in ship manifests before WW I,
      > Slovak surnames often appeared under their Hungarian spellings.
      > Archaic letter combination 'cz' is now the letter 'c'.
      > Hungarian doesn't have a diacritic letter c ^ pron. ch.
      > It does have the letter 'cs' which is also pron. ch.
      > So Slovak surnames on manifests could be in Hungarian version
      > while today the Slovak version is found in the Slovakia telephone
      > directory.
      > In Hungarian and Slovak, the letter c is pron. ts.
      > In German the letter z is pron. ts.
      >
      > Sprentz and Printz look like German surname spellings.
      >
      > Michael, Mike (E) (G)
      > Mihály, Miska (H)
      > Michal (Sk)
      >
      >
      > In 1905, a Mihaly Sprencz, age 34, married, Magyar, emigrated to
      > U.S.
      > He went to his brother György (H) George (E) Juraj (Sk) Sprencz
      > in Newark, NJ.
      > His Last Residence is listed as Regmez, but that was Regéc which is
      > located just west of Sátoraljaúhely, Hungary.
      >
      > In 1909, a Mihaly Sprencz , age 36, married, Magyar, emigrated
      > to U.S.
      > He went to brother-in-law János Louscsak in Cleveland OH.
      > Mihaly had been in U.S. before in 1903/1906 also in Cleveland.
      > His Last Residence was listed as Cselij which is Cselej (H)
      > C^elovce (Sk) located just west of Trebis^ov, Slovakia and
      > not far north of Sátoraljaúhely, Hungary.
      >
      > v
      > Frank Kurcina
      >
      > > Do you know who killed my father?
      > > JOHN SPRENTZ, murdered 1983 in
      > > Ecorse, Michigan.... see my website for
      > > further details.
      > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/2651/Unsolvedmurder.html
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: "Frank" <frankur@a...>
      > > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 2:40 PM
      > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Maczko, Orendas/Arendacs
      > >
      > >
      > > > Slovak language doesn't have a letter 'cz'.
      > > > Cz was an archaic Hungarian letter combination, now the letter c.
      > > > In Slovak and Hungarian the letter c is pron. as English 'ts'.
      > > >
      > > > In Hungarian, letter 'cs' is pron. ch.
      > > > Slavic diacritic letter 'c^' is pron. ch.
      > > > Archaic Hungarian letters 'ch, ts' are now modern letter cs and
      > letter
      > > > 'th' is modern letter t.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
      > email to
      > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > > >
      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > >
      > > >
      >
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
      http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
      SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • Frank
      ... could be ... leaving them ... Mihlay ... what the ... find ... took me ... Spruetz ... came to ... Joseph (E) Jószef (H) Jozef (Sk) Josef (G) S A Ujhely
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 30, 2003
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        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Anne Sprentz" <asprentz@w...>
        wrote:
        > Frank,
        >
        > Thank you.:-) I saw those Sprencz's on the EI manifests. Those
        could be
        > related to my Mihaly Sprencz but without further research, I'm
        leaving them
        > alone. You can find the record of my Mihaly Sprencz by typing in
        Mihlay
        > Spaner. Yeah, I know, it looks nothing like Sprencz, but Spaner is
        what the
        > transcriber saw. And as a side note, it took me forever and a day to
        find
        > him on the Ellis Island ship manifests, and can you believe his son
        took me
        > months to find on the 1930 census because they had transcribe
        Spruetz
        > instead of Sprentz.
        >
        > Spaner, Mihlay Arrival date 1 March, 1904 Port of Departure Antwerp
        > age 24 single
        > Magyar
        > Last Residence, S A Ujhely
        > Going to Dayton Oh to join brother Joe Prince 1463 W Dakota. ( who
        came to
        > US in 1892)




        Joseph (E)
        Jószef (H)
        Jozef (Sk)
        Josef (G)

        S A Ujhely was abbrev. for Sátoraljaúhely, Hungary.

        Yes.
        16 surnames Spaner listed in EIR.
        A Spaner arrived in 1904 via port of exit Antwerp.
        The transciber made mistakes.
        The ship clerk or purser was very good because he had used Hungarian
        accent marks.
        I have read enough letter 'cz' in ship manifests.
        But, # 26 was not actually Spaner, rather his surname was written
        Sprencz in ship manifest.
        For example, # 27 Sipo"cz was transcribed as Sipoer.


        What might have surnames said ?

        How are you ? English

        Wie geht es Ihnen ? German

        Hogy Van ? Hungarian

        Ako sa más^ ? Slovak

        Jak se máte ? Czech

        Jak sie masz ? Polish



        > So... maybe Mihaly wanted to be like his big brother and spell his
        name the
        > same way?? :-)) I have been in contact with Joszef's ggrandson, who
        has
        > never said Joszef spelled it Sprencz, and I've not found him with
        any
        > Sprencz spelling. And this ggrandson insists that Jozsef is Slovak.
        I've
        > never found anything to prove either brother was Slovak. This
        ggrandson is
        > older than me and has elderly family members who say Slovak, too.
        But.. I
        > don't know at this point, and have not gotten that far back in my
        research
        > for it to matter, really.. I'd just be happy to find
        Mihaly/Michael/Mike on
        > the 1930 census, or find a death record for him.
        >
        > Anyhow, thanks, to you and also thanks to Thomas for replying to my
        post.
        >
        > Anne Sprentz
        >
        > Do you know who killed my father?
        > JOHN SPRENTZ, murdered 1983 in
        > Ecorse, Michigan.... see my website for
        > further details.
        > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/2651/Unsolvedmurder.html
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Frank" <frankur@a...>
        > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 11:27 PM
        > Subject: [S-R] Re: surname spelling changes
        >
        >
        > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Anne Sprentz"
        <asprentz@w...>
        > > wrote:
        > > > Frank,
        > > > You seem knowledgeable on the Slovak and Hungarian language.
        I'm
        > > curious to
        > > > know if you can answer this.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > My great-grandfather was born 1879 in Satoraljaujhely, Hungary.
        > > > On the Ellis Island ship manifest, he lists his name as Sprencz,
        > > Mihaly in
        > > > 1904
        > > > On the city directories, he was listed as Mike Printz /Princz
        > > 1905/1906
        > > > His sons birth record lists him as Sprentz (1907)
        > > > On his sons baptism record his name was spelled Sprencz. (1907)
        > > > On the 1910 census, his name was spelled Printz
        > > > Some records his name was spelled Prince and Sprencz, in his own
        > > > handwriting. ( his dec of intent, and on a church document, both
        > > written
        > > > between 1909-1912)
        > > >
        > > > I can see the different spellings of Princz, but what I don't
        > > understand is
        > > > how Sprencz was interchanged with Princz? Why would that happen?
        > > > His son kept the name Sprentz, the father kept it Printz.
        > > >
        > > > Also, if there is no cz in the Slovak Language, would that mean
        that
        > > he
        > > > could not have been Slovak? The area he was born in was once
        > > Slovakia, as I
        > > > understand and had a high concentration of Slovaks.
        > > >
        > > > Thanks.
        > > > A. Sprentz
        > >
        > >
        > > Anne,
        > >
        > > After the WW I peace treaty with Hungary (1920), Zemplén megye
        was
        > > (county) was split between Hungary and Czechoslovakia around
        > > Sátoraljaúhely, Hungary.
        > > Part remained in Hungary and the rest became part of Slovakia
        > > (Zemplin z^upa)
        > > Many emigrants changed names after they had settled in the U.S.
        > > Emigration service didn't make them change their surnames.
        > > Some did it to sound more American and others for any number of
        > > reasons.
        > >
        > > By no Slovak letter 'cz' I meant that in ship manifests before WW
        I,
        > > Slovak surnames often appeared under their Hungarian spellings.
        > > Archaic letter combination 'cz' is now the letter 'c'.
        > > Hungarian doesn't have a diacritic letter c ^ pron. ch.
        > > It does have the letter 'cs' which is also pron. ch.
        > > So Slovak surnames on manifests could be in Hungarian version
        > > while today the Slovak version is found in the Slovakia telephone
        > > directory.
        > > In Hungarian and Slovak, the letter c is pron. ts.
        > > In German the letter z is pron. ts.
        > >
        > > Sprentz and Printz look like German surname spellings.
        > >
        > > Michael, Mike (E) (G)
        > > Mihály, Miska (H)
        > > Michal (Sk)
        > >
        > >
        > > In 1905, a Mihaly Sprencz, age 34, married, Magyar, emigrated to
        > > U.S.
        > > He went to his brother György (H) George (E) Juraj (Sk) Sprencz
        > > in Newark, NJ.
        > > His Last Residence is listed as Regmez, but that was Regéc which
        is
        > > located just west of Sátoraljaúhely, Hungary.
        > >
        > > In 1909, a Mihaly Sprencz , age 36, married, Magyar, emigrated
        > > to U.S.
        > > He went to brother-in-law János Louscsak in Cleveland OH.
        > > Mihaly had been in U.S. before in 1903/1906 also in Cleveland.
        > > His Last Residence was listed as Cselij which is Cselej (H)
        > > C^elovce (Sk) located just west of Trebis^ov, Slovakia and
        > > not far north of Sátoraljaúhely, Hungary.
        > >
        > > v
        > > Frank Kurcina
        > >
        > > > Do you know who killed my father?
        > > > JOHN SPRENTZ, murdered 1983 in
        > > > Ecorse, Michigan.... see my website for
        > > > further details.
        > > >
        http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/2651/Unsolvedmurder.html
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > > From: "Frank" <frankur@a...>
        > > > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
        > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 2:40 PM
        > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Maczko, Orendas/Arendacs
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Slovak language doesn't have a letter 'cz'.
        > > > > Cz was an archaic Hungarian letter combination, now the letter
        c.
        > > > > In Slovak and Hungarian the letter c is pron. as English 'ts'.
        > > > >
        > > > > In Hungarian, letter 'cs' is pron. ch.
        > > > > Slavic diacritic letter 'c^' is pron. ch.
        > > > > Archaic Hungarian letters 'ch, ts' are now modern letter cs
        and
        > > letter
        > > > > 'th' is modern letter t.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
        > > email to
        > > > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > > > >
        > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank
        email to
        > SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >
        > >
      • Anne Sprentz
        Frank, I have one other thing I d like to ask you about and then I ll quit pestering you. This ties in with the cs ending making the ch sound in Hungarian.
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 30, 2003
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          Frank,
          I have one other thing I'd like to ask you about and then I'll quit
          pestering you. This ties in with the 'cs' ending making the 'ch' sound in
          Hungarian.

          I have three versions of this surname on documents, all after she came to
          the states.

          Mary Szedlovics .....written on baptism record of son in 1907
          Mary Helen Szedlovich.....written on sons application for Social Security
          1936
          Mary Setlowitz.....written on sons birth record in 1907

          This is the wife of Mihaly Sprencz/Princz. These are the *only* records I
          have with her name on them.
          According to sons baptism record, she was born in 1880 in Ungvar, Ung megye,
          which is now Uzhhorod, Ukraine.

          I'm trying to take into account that even though she was listed as Magyar on
          sons birth record, she may not have actually been Hungarian.

          Have been told that the "sz" is not Hungarian. Know that the 's' in
          Hungarian sounds like "sh'. You mentioned that the "cs' in Hungarian sounds
          like 'ch', but why would a spelling of Szedlovich also be spelled Setlowitz
          This is very confusing for me.

          Could you give me some examples of spelling/sounds of this name that might
          (1) help me to find her or her family name before coming to the states, (on
          ship manifest) and (2) something spelled "americanized" to help me find her
          on census records here in the states. Which spellings would come from which
          ethnicity? I'm starting to think she may have been Lithuanian/Polish from
          all the other spellings I've found.

          She is not on the Ellis Island database. I believe she came through another
          port, but the similiar spellings of Szedlovich that I have found on EI most
          are not Hungarian. Here's what I've found:

          ancestry.com finds

          (2)SEDLEWICZ....born in .Lithuania speaks Lithuanian and b.Russian/Poland
          speaks Polish

          (1)SEDLOVICH...
          this one has a reference to Jewish Surnames in Russian Empire on
          ancestry.com, but I can't access it
          Also has 1 SSDI entry, no birthplace but last residence Elizabetn,
          Allegheny, PA

          (1)SEDLOWITZ.. B..Poland/Russia speaks Yiddish 1914 ancestry.com
          Ellis Island says he's coming to join his Uncle L SIDLEWICZ
          Ellis Island also says his nationality was Russian but ethnicity was
          Lithuanian

          (2) ZEDLOVICH... american born, but 2 brothers say parents were born in
          Austria, and parents spoke German
          (5) ZEDLOVICH SSDI entries on ancestry.com... all issued in NY 3 out of 5
          last resided in Queens, NY

          (1)SEDLOVITCH B. Russia/ Speaks Lithuanian

          SEDLEVICH...Born in Russia Speaks Polish

          (2)SEDLEVICK...B Lithuanian/Lithuanian the other one b. Russian speaks
          Russian

          ELLIS ISLAND FINDS:

          SZEDLEWICZ...ethnicity Russian/Lithuanian

          SIEDLEWICZOWNA..... ethnicity...Russia/Polish

          SEDLEWICZ... born in Russia Ethnicity...Russia/ Lithuanian

          SZEDROVICS..Ethnicity Hungarian

          SEDEWITZ...Ethnicity Russia/Polish
          SEDLEWICZ...Ethnicity Russia/Lithuanian

          SZE?OWICZ Ethnicity Russian

          SZETKOVIC....Hungary/Slovak


          I hope I made it understandable of what I'm trying to ask, and I thank you
          for your previous reply to my earlier posts.

          Anne Sprentz


          Do you know who killed my father?
          JOHN SPRENTZ, murdered 1983 in
          Ecorse, Michigan.... see my website for
          further details.
          http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/2651/Unsolvedmurder.html
        • Frank
          ... sound in ... came to ... Security ... records I ... Ung megye, ... Magyar on ... Hungarian sounds ... Setlowitz ... might ... states, (on ... find her ...
          Message 4 of 5 , Apr 30, 2003
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            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Anne Sprentz" <asprentz@w...>
            wrote:
            > Frank,
            > I have one other thing I'd like to ask you about and then I'll quit
            > pestering you. This ties in with the 'cs' ending making the 'ch'
            sound in
            > Hungarian.
            >
            > I have three versions of this surname on documents, all after she
            came to
            > the states.
            >
            > Mary Szedlovics .....written on baptism record of son in 1907
            > Mary Helen Szedlovich.....written on sons application for Social
            Security
            > 1936
            > Mary Setlowitz.....written on sons birth record in 1907
            >
            > This is the wife of Mihaly Sprencz/Princz. These are the *only*
            records I
            > have with her name on them.
            > According to sons baptism record, she was born in 1880 in Ungvar,
            Ung megye,
            > which is now Uzhhorod, Ukraine.
            >
            > I'm trying to take into account that even though she was listed as
            Magyar on
            > sons birth record, she may not have actually been Hungarian.
            >
            > Have been told that the "sz" is not Hungarian. Know that the 's' in
            > Hungarian sounds like "sh'. You mentioned that the "cs' in
            Hungarian sounds
            > like 'ch', but why would a spelling of Szedlovich also be spelled
            Setlowitz
            > This is very confusing for me.
            >
            > Could you give me some examples of spelling/sounds of this name that
            might
            > (1) help me to find her or her family name before coming to the
            states, (on
            > ship manifest) and (2) something spelled "americanized" to help me
            find her
            > on census records here in the states. Which spellings would come
            from which
            > ethnicity? I'm starting to think she may have been
            Lithuanian/Polish from
            > all the other spellings I've found.

            Anne,

            I have no problem with that.

            Hungarians had a surname ending -ics which was not native to
            Hungarian but a phonetic adaptation i.e. written -ics pron. ick.

            This was akin to South Slavic surname affix -ic'/-vic', -ovic' pron.
            ovich, meaning 'son of'.
            Pronounced the same as and means the same thing as 'son of' (clan
            name) in Croatian.
            Similar to Polish surname affix -owicz or -owycz which is
            pronounced the same as and also means the same thing as 'son of'
            (clan name)
            This special ending also has the same meaning in Russian.


            In Hungarian, the letter 'sz' is pron. s.
            In Polish , letter 'sz' is pron. sh.
            In Hungarian, the letter s is pron. sh and in Slovak the letter
            s^ is pron. sh.
            Since letter 'cs' is pron. ch, surname Szedovics might be spelled
            Szedlovich or Sedlovic^ (ch)
            Setlowitz could be the German spelling.

            Hungarian and Slovak don't use the letter w.
            Letters q, w, x appear only in foreign words and surnames.
            In most Slavic languages the letter v is pron. v.
            In German and Polish the letter w is pron. v.
            In German the letter v is pron. f, v.

            Ungvár (H)
            Uz^horod (Cz, Sk)
            Uzhhorod (Ukr)
            Uzhgorod (Rus)

            Russian has no H sound/letter, but a hard G.
            Ukrainian has no G sound/letter, but a hard H.


            In 1880 Ung megye was part of Hungary.
            The area of today's Karpatho-Ukraine was part of the Kingdom of
            Hungary from the 10th century to 1919, and formed the counties,
            comitatus in Latin, which was the legal language of
            administration until 1844, Komitat or Gespannschaft in German,
            Megye in Magyar), of Ung,(capital Ungvár), Bereg (Beregszasz),
            U-gocsa (Nagy-Szállos), and Máramaros (Marmaros-Szighet).
            They did not form a special administrative area during Hungarian
            rule.

            After peace treaty (1920) the newly formed country of Czechoslovakia
            was formed from Bohemia, Moravia, and Austrian-Silesia and Slovakia
            and Karpatho-Ukraine.

            The larger part, with an area of 12,600 km or 5,400 sq. miles, was
            annexed by the newly created Czechoslovak Republic, or CSR, a
            smaller part of Marmaros Komitat by Romania.
            Both countries gave cities and villages new official names.

            The parts taken by the CSR were organized into the province of
            Podkarpatska Rus, divided into four Z^upy (Uz^horod, Mukac^evo,
            Berehovo, Marmaros^) whose boundaries followed roughly the old
            Komitat boundaries.The county capitals were Uz^horod, (Ungvár),
            Berehova, (Beregszasz), Mukac^evo (Munkács, German Munkatsch),
            while the new capital of Czech Marmaros was Chust
            (Huszt), since Máramarossziget was now the capital of Romanian
            Marmaros under the name of Sighetul Marmariei.


            The area had been promised autonomy in 1919, and finally
            received it in October 1938 in the wake of the Munich agreement.
            However, the Southern strip, populated mainly by Magyars (ethnic
            Hungarians), was returned to Hungary, which annexed the remainder
            of the area in March 1939.
            In 1939, Hungary forcibily annexed Subcarpathian Rus' (then part of
            Czechoslovakia.

            The Karpatho-Ukraine was annexed in June 1945 by the Soviet Union.
            Since 1991, it is part of the independent Republic Ukraine.

            For genealogists, the boundary changes, especially when dividing of
            a village from its county capital, where many records were collected,
            presents great challenges.


            The problem now is, that inorder to obtain surname records, you need
            to write the Ukrainian Archives in Ukrainian Cyrillic alphabet.

            For example, Kiev
            K | | B (Cyrillic)
            K i i v

            If they ever replied, answer would also be written in Ukrainian.
            It good times, the Archives sometimes replied after a year, or
            never.

            From the late 1700s until the end of WW I, Poland did not exist as a
            country. It was divided among the Russian, German (Prussian), and
            Austrian Empires. These divisions were known as Partitions.

            The former Russian Empire included Poland, Lithuania, Latvia ,
            Estonia , Belarus (Byelorussia), and parts of the Ukraine.
            Since this is not germane to CzechoSlovakia I will reply to your
            ancestry.com surname finds elsewhere.

            Instead I will tell you here how to obtain NJ naturalization records.

            Remember, for pre-1906 naturalization records you must figure out
            where the immigrant did (or could) naturalize, and look for that
            court's records. If it was a federal court, those records are likely
            at the appropriate Regional National Archives. After 1906 the
            procedure is just the same, except that there was a copy of ALL
            naturalization records since September 27, 1906, filed with the U.S.
            Immigration and Naturalization Service.
            So if you cannot determine which court naturalized the immigrant after
            1906, or if the courthouse burned and the post-1906 records were lost,
            or you could request a copy from the INS under the Freedom of
            Information Act.

            You can e-mail the regional National Archives and Records
            Administration (NARA) Northeast Region-New York City NY to search
            their surname naturalization index.


            E-mail: newyork.archives@...

            Holdings :
            Maintains archival records from Federal agencies and courts in
            New Jersey, New York, Puerto Rico, and the U.S.Virgin Islands.



            Request a surname naturalization record search and provide
            as much as you can of the following:

            Name
            Date of birth
            Place of birth
            Year of immigration
            Ship and port of arrival
            Year of naturalization
            Marital status
            Names of spouse and dependents
            Residence at time of naturalization

            Also provide your name and U.S. Postal snailmail address.

            NARA will also respond to your query by e-mail.
            If located , upon payment of $ 6 fee will mail you
            naturalization papers.

            You will receive acknowledgement of request following a few days
            or hours depending on NARA's volume.



            > She is not on the Ellis Island database. I believe she came through
            another
            > port, but the similiar spellings of Szedlovich that I have found on
            EI most
            > are not Hungarian. Here's what I've found:
            >
            > ancestry.com finds
            >
            > (2)SEDLEWICZ....born in .Lithuania speaks Lithuanian and
            b.Russian/Poland
            > speaks Polish
            >
            > (1)SEDLOVICH...
            > this one has a reference to Jewish Surnames in Russian Empire on
            > ancestry.com, but I can't access it
            > Also has 1 SSDI entry, no birthplace but last residence Elizabetn,
            > Allegheny, PA
            >
            > (1)SEDLOWITZ.. B..Poland/Russia speaks Yiddish 1914 ancestry.com
            > Ellis Island says he's coming to join his Uncle L SIDLEWICZ
            > Ellis Island also says his nationality was Russian but ethnicity was
            > Lithuanian
            >
            > (2) ZEDLOVICH... american born, but 2 brothers say parents were born
            in
            > Austria, and parents spoke German
            > (5) ZEDLOVICH SSDI entries on ancestry.com... all issued in NY 3 out
            of 5
            > last resided in Queens, NY
            >
            > (1)SEDLOVITCH B. Russia/ Speaks Lithuanian
            >
            > SEDLEVICH...Born in Russia Speaks Polish
            >
            > (2)SEDLEVICK...B Lithuanian/Lithuanian the other one b. Russian
            speaks
            > Russian
            >
            > ELLIS ISLAND FINDS:
            >
            > SZEDLEWICZ...ethnicity Russian/Lithuanian
            >
            > SIEDLEWICZOWNA..... ethnicity...Russia/Polish
            >
            > SEDLEWICZ... born in Russia Ethnicity...Russia/ Lithuanian
            >
            > SZEDROVICS..Ethnicity Hungarian
            >
            > SEDEWITZ...Ethnicity Russia/Polish
            > SEDLEWICZ...Ethnicity Russia/Lithuanian
            >
            > SZE?OWICZ Ethnicity Russian
            >
            > SZETKOVIC....Hungary/Slovak
            >
            >
            > I hope I made it understandable of what I'm trying to ask, and I
            thank you
            > for your previous reply to my earlier posts.
            >
            > Anne Sprentz
            >
            >
            > Do you know who killed my father?
            > JOHN SPRENTZ, murdered 1983 in
            > Ecorse, Michigan.... see my website for
            > further details.
            > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/2651/Unsolvedmurder.html
          • Anne Sprentz
            Frank, Thank you for that very informative reply. You really went out of your way to explain this to me, and I do appreciate it. You must have the patience
            Message 5 of 5 , May 1, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              Frank,
              Thank you for that very informative reply. You really went out of your way
              to explain this to me, and I do appreciate it. You must have the patience
              of a saint..:-))

              Anne Sprentz




              Do you know who killed my father?
              JOHN SPRENTZ, murdered 1983 in
              Ecorse, Michigan.... see my website for
              further details.
              http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/2651/Unsolvedmurder.html

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Frank" <frankur@...>
              To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 7:32 PM
              Subject: [S-R] Re: surname spelling changes


              >
              > Anne,
              >
              > I have no problem with that.
              >
              > Hungarians had a surname ending -ics which was not native to
              > Hungarian but a phonetic adaptation i.e. written -ics pron. ick.
              >
              > This was akin to South Slavic surname affix -ic'/-vic', -ovic' pron.
              > ovich, meaning 'son of'.
              > Pronounced the same as and means the same thing as 'son of' (clan
              > name) in Croatian.
              > Similar to Polish surname affix -owicz or -owycz which is
              > pronounced the same as and also means the same thing as 'son of'
              > (clan name)
              > This special ending also has the same meaning in Russian.
              >
              >
              > In Hungarian, the letter 'sz' is pron. s.
              > In Polish , letter 'sz' is pron. sh.
              > In Hungarian, the letter s is pron. sh and in Slovak the letter
              > s^ is pron. sh.
              > Since letter 'cs' is pron. ch, surname Szedovics might be spelled
              > Szedlovich or Sedlovic^ (ch)
              > Setlowitz could be the German spelling.
              >
              > Hungarian and Slovak don't use the letter w.
              > Letters q, w, x appear only in foreign words and surnames.
              > In most Slavic languages the letter v is pron. v.
              > In German and Polish the letter w is pron. v.
              > In German the letter v is pron. f, v.
              >
              > Ungvár (H)
              > Uz^horod (Cz, Sk)
              > Uzhhorod (Ukr)
              > Uzhgorod (Rus)
              >
              > Russian has no H sound/letter, but a hard G.
              > Ukrainian has no G sound/letter, but a hard H.
              >
              >
              > In 1880 Ung megye was part of Hungary.
              > The area of today's Karpatho-Ukraine was part of the Kingdom of
              > Hungary from the 10th century to 1919, and formed the counties,
              > comitatus in Latin, which was the legal language of
              > administration until 1844, Komitat or Gespannschaft in German,
              > Megye in Magyar), of Ung,(capital Ungvár), Bereg (Beregszasz),
              > U-gocsa (Nagy-Szállos), and Máramaros (Marmaros-Szighet).
              > They did not form a special administrative area during Hungarian
              > rule.
              >
              > After peace treaty (1920) the newly formed country of Czechoslovakia
              > was formed from Bohemia, Moravia, and Austrian-Silesia and Slovakia
              > and Karpatho-Ukraine.
              >
              > The larger part, with an area of 12,600 km or 5,400 sq. miles, was
              > annexed by the newly created Czechoslovak Republic, or CSR, a
              > smaller part of Marmaros Komitat by Romania.
              > Both countries gave cities and villages new official names.
              >
              > The parts taken by the CSR were organized into the province of
              > Podkarpatska Rus, divided into four Z^upy (Uz^horod, Mukac^evo,
              > Berehovo, Marmaros^) whose boundaries followed roughly the old
              > Komitat boundaries.The county capitals were Uz^horod, (Ungvár),
              > Berehova, (Beregszasz), Mukac^evo (Munkács, German Munkatsch),
              > while the new capital of Czech Marmaros was Chust
              > (Huszt), since Máramarossziget was now the capital of Romanian
              > Marmaros under the name of Sighetul Marmariei.
              >
              >
              > The area had been promised autonomy in 1919, and finally
              > received it in October 1938 in the wake of the Munich agreement.
              > However, the Southern strip, populated mainly by Magyars (ethnic
              > Hungarians), was returned to Hungary, which annexed the remainder
              > of the area in March 1939.
              > In 1939, Hungary forcibily annexed Subcarpathian Rus' (then part of
              > Czechoslovakia.
              >
              > The Karpatho-Ukraine was annexed in June 1945 by the Soviet Union.
              > Since 1991, it is part of the independent Republic Ukraine.
              >
              > For genealogists, the boundary changes, especially when dividing of
              > a village from its county capital, where many records were collected,
              > presents great challenges.
              >
              >
              > The problem now is, that inorder to obtain surname records, you need
              > to write the Ukrainian Archives in Ukrainian Cyrillic alphabet.
              >
              > For example, Kiev
              > K | | B (Cyrillic)
              > K i i v
              >
              > If they ever replied, answer would also be written in Ukrainian.
              > It good times, the Archives sometimes replied after a year, or
              > never.
              >
              > >From the late 1700s until the end of WW I, Poland did not exist as a
              > country. It was divided among the Russian, German (Prussian), and
              > Austrian Empires. These divisions were known as Partitions.
              >
              > The former Russian Empire included Poland, Lithuania, Latvia ,
              > Estonia , Belarus (Byelorussia), and parts of the Ukraine.
              > Since this is not germane to CzechoSlovakia I will reply to your
              > ancestry.com surname finds elsewhere.
              >
              > Instead I will tell you here how to obtain NJ naturalization records.
              >
              > Remember, for pre-1906 naturalization records you must figure out
              > where the immigrant did (or could) naturalize, and look for that
              > court's records. If it was a federal court, those records are likely
              > at the appropriate Regional National Archives. After 1906 the
              > procedure is just the same, except that there was a copy of ALL
              > naturalization records since September 27, 1906, filed with the U.S.
              > Immigration and Naturalization Service.
              > So if you cannot determine which court naturalized the immigrant after
              > 1906, or if the courthouse burned and the post-1906 records were lost,
              > or you could request a copy from the INS under the Freedom of
              > Information Act.
              >
              > You can e-mail the regional National Archives and Records
              > Administration (NARA) Northeast Region-New York City NY to search
              > their surname naturalization index.
              >
              >
              > E-mail: newyork.archives@...
              >
              > Holdings :
              > Maintains archival records from Federal agencies and courts in
              > New Jersey, New York, Puerto Rico, and the U.S.Virgin Islands.
              >
              >
              >
              > Request a surname naturalization record search and provide
              > as much as you can of the following:
              >
              > Name
              > Date of birth
              > Place of birth
              > Year of immigration
              > Ship and port of arrival
              > Year of naturalization
              > Marital status
              > Names of spouse and dependents
              > Residence at time of naturalization
              >
              > Also provide your name and U.S. Postal snailmail address.
              >
              > NARA will also respond to your query by e-mail.
              > If located , upon payment of $ 6 fee will mail you
              > naturalization papers.
              >
              > You will receive acknowledgement of request following a few days
              > or hours depending on NARA's volume.
              >
              >
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