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Re: [S-R] naming traditions

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  • Caye Caswick
    See, I might never know -- but I won t stop trying -- just not stabbing the beast very enthusiastically. Thanks Janko. Caye ... Madar might also be a
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 5, 2002
      See, I might never know -- but I won't stop trying -- just not stabbing the beast very enthusiastically. Thanks Janko.

      Caye

      "John M," <jmatsko4@...> wrote:At 07:02 AM 11/5/2002 -0800, you wrote:
      >ure about the German -- although the folks they rented from -- the wive's
      >maiden name was Madar -- which to me sounds German, so who knows, she
      >might have known a little German too -- remember Yiddish is based wholly
      >on German -- so it's not such a stretch.

      Madar might also be a variation on Magyar or Mad'ar (pronounced Madyar)
      which means Hungarian.

      Janko



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    • Frank
      ... German and ... Orthodox ... could find ... Stephen, ... called ... learned these ... sure) but ... this is ... was 100% ... Gypsy ... the naming ... Noreen
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 5, 2002
        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., nhasior@a... wrote:
        > Caye,
        > my maternal grandmother was from Spis. yet in many ways she was
        German and
        > Hungarian and i wonder if she did not at some point belong to
        Orthodox
        > tradition. my grandmother is still a mystery to me and if only i
        could find
        > her mother, i may be on to where her three children (Mary, Anna and
        Stephen,
        > of course) were born. she spoke much German at home and mustard was
        called
        > mutarde (pronounced Moo Tar De), which is German . my mother
        learned these
        > phrases and always told us to Gie Schloffen, (spelled wrong i am
        sure) but
        > she meant very clearly for us to "go to sleep" i realize now that
        this is
        > German, but she was entirely Slovak in all her recipies. my mother
        was 100%
        > Slovak in all other traditions except for language. she played
        Gypsy
        > campfire music and opera all day sunday. it has me stumped. so
        the naming
        > traditions are a big help in sticking with the Slovak direction.
        > thanks,
        > Noreen

        Noreen

        I lived in Germany for five years and was in France in 1944.
        Would expect moutarde was mustard in French and der Senf in German.
        (Mustár in Hungarian and horc^ica in Slovak)

        Gehen Sie zu Schlafen (Go to sleep !) in German.


        It was highly likely your GM was German and was from Spis^ z^upa.
        Where in Szepes megye H) Spis^ z^upa (Sk) Zips (G) ?
        What was her surname and religion ?

        http://www.feefhs.org/frl/czs/dg-gps.html
        http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/ESE/slovak.html
      • nhasior@aol.com
        Frank, thanks for the information. My grandother s father s name was Mucha and sometimes spelled Muha with the omlats on the u. her mother s name was Jankura.
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 5, 2002
          Frank,
          thanks for the information.
          My grandother's father's name was Mucha and sometimes spelled Muha with the
          omlats on the u.
          her mother's name was Jankura.
        • Frank
          ... with the ... The surnames Muha and Mucha are found in Sloavkia and elsewhere. The German telephone white pages list 250+ surnames Muha and 250+ surnames
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 6, 2002
            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., nhasior@a... wrote:
            > Frank,
            > thanks for the information.
            > My grandother's father's name was Mucha and sometimes spelled Muha
            with the
            > omlats on the u.
            > her mother's name was Jankura.

            The surnames Muha and Mucha are found in Sloavkia and elsewhere.

            The German telephone white pages list 250+ surnames Muha and 250+
            surnames Mucha.

            Ellis Island Records (EIR) 1892-1924 list 109 surname Muha who
            emigrated to the U.S. from Europe via Ellis Island (NYC)
            EIR also list 1048 surnames Mucha who emigrated to the U.S. from
            Europe via Ellis Island (NYC)
            From childhood Slovak (English was my third language) I remember that
            mucha means a fly (a winged insect)

            The online Slovakia telephone directory lists 3 surnames Mucha under
            Stará L'ubovn^a, 3 under Kez^marok, and 10 under Spis^ská Nová Ves.
            The directory also lists 2 surnames Jankura under Stará L'ubovn^a, 7
            under Kez^marok, 2 under Presov^, and 6 under Kos^ice.

            Many surnames Mucha emigrated from Poland (Mucha also means a fly in
            Polish)

            What about the German villages in the Spis^ region of Slovakia ?
            Interesting region.
            Germans, Slovaks, Rusyns, Croatians, Hungarians, and Poles.
            Don't know which group settled here first in 12th, 14th, and 16th
            centuries.

            Not all people in East Central Europe who later spoke German
            owed their heritage to German settlers. Many were descendants of
            Germanized Slavs and in some cases Magyars whose ancestors had
            intermarried with neighbors of Germanic origin.

            Among the earliest German colonies were those begun in the late
            12th c in Transylvania and in the mountainous area of Spis^/Zips/
            Szepes county in northern Hungary near the towns of Levoc^a (Sv)/
            Leutschau (G) and Kez^marok (Sk)/Késmárk (H)/Käsmarkt(G)
            The Spis^ enclave was expanded through special privileges granted in
            1224 and 1271.
            It was at this time that the "Saxons" (actually not from Saxony but
            from the Rhineland) came in large numbers.
            It was during the 13th c that organized efforts were undertaken to
            settle Carpathian Rus' with East Slavic farmers and shepherds from
            neighboring Galicija (Poland)

            Early in 15th c the 16 towns in the northen Spis^ region of central
            Slovakia (including Stará L'ubovn^a and L'ubica)- near to but not
            including the royal Saxon towns of Käsmark and Leutschau - were sold
            to Poland, under whose rule they remained 1412-1772.
          • Ron Matviyak
            Of course don t forget the most famous Mucha, the Czech artist Alphons Mucha of art nouveau fame. I believe I read where his name Mucha = Fly. to start, check
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 6, 2002
              Of course don't forget the most famous Mucha, the Czech artist Alphons Mucha
              of art nouveau fame. I believe I read where his name Mucha = Fly.

              to start, check out
              http://www.mucha.cz/index.phtml?S=home&Lang=EN

              Ron



              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Frank <frankur@...>
              To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:33 AM
              Subject: Re: [S-R] naming traditions


              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., nhasior@a... wrote:
              > Frank,
              > thanks for the information.
              > My grandother's father's name was Mucha and sometimes spelled Muha
              with the
              > omlats on the u.
              > her mother's name was Jankura.

              The surnames Muha and Mucha are found in Sloavkia and elsewhere.

              The German telephone white pages list 250+ surnames Muha and 250+
              surnames Mucha.

              Ellis Island Records (EIR) 1892-1924 list 109 surname Muha who
              emigrated to the U.S. from Europe via Ellis Island (NYC)
              EIR also list 1048 surnames Mucha who emigrated to the U.S. from
              Europe via Ellis Island (NYC)
              From childhood Slovak (English was my third language) I remember that
              mucha means a fly (a winged insect)

              The online Slovakia telephone directory lists 3 surnames Mucha under
              Stará L'ubovn^a, 3 under Kez^marok, and 10 under Spis^ská Nová Ves.
              The directory also lists 2 surnames Jankura under Stará L'ubovn^a, 7
              under Kez^marok, 2 under Presov^, and 6 under Kos^ice.

              Many surnames Mucha emigrated from Poland (Mucha also means a fly in
              Polish)

              What about the German villages in the Spis^ region of Slovakia ?
              Interesting region.
              Germans, Slovaks, Rusyns, Croatians, Hungarians, and Poles.
              Don't know which group settled here first in 12th, 14th, and 16th
              centuries.

              Not all people in East Central Europe who later spoke German
              owed their heritage to German settlers. Many were descendants of
              Germanized Slavs and in some cases Magyars whose ancestors had
              intermarried with neighbors of Germanic origin.

              Among the earliest German colonies were those begun in the late
              12th c in Transylvania and in the mountainous area of Spis^/Zips/
              Szepes county in northern Hungary near the towns of Levoc^a (Sv)/
              Leutschau (G) and Kez^marok (Sk)/Késmárk (H)/Käsmarkt(G)
              The Spis^ enclave was expanded through special privileges granted in
              1224 and 1271.
              It was at this time that the "Saxons" (actually not from Saxony but
              from the Rhineland) came in large numbers.
              It was during the 13th c that organized efforts were undertaken to
              settle Carpathian Rus' with East Slavic farmers and shepherds from
              neighboring Galicija (Poland)

              Early in 15th c the 16 towns in the northen Spis^ region of central
              Slovakia (including Stará L'ubovn^a and L'ubica)- near to but not
              including the royal Saxon towns of Käsmark and Leutschau - were sold
              to Poland, under whose rule they remained 1412-1772.



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            • nhasior@aol.com
              Thanks Ron for the website on Mucha. my aunt sent me pictures of the pipeline and a highway after the earthquake. i am glad that you were not hurt Noreen
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 8, 2002
                Thanks Ron for the website on Mucha. my aunt sent me pictures of the
                pipeline and a highway after the earthquake. i am glad that you were not
                hurt
                Noreen
              • nhasior@aol.com
                Thank you Frank, for all the information about the settlers and historical facts on particular areas of Slovakia. i wish that our own History courses taught
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 9, 2002
                  Thank you Frank, for all the information about the settlers and historical
                  facts on particular areas of Slovakia.
                  i wish that our own History courses taught during high school and college
                  would contain more history about Eastern Europe. even today's Eastern
                  European courses mostly deal with the Holocaust and The Soviet Union. i
                  looked into the curriculum for the Soviet Union and find that it mostly deals
                  with Russia itself. so it is interesting to learn from other members of this
                  list a partial history of Slovak Republic and some of the border countries.
                  Information on the Holocaust is very stagnated and does not contain more than
                  we have heard over and over. and no details. The Diary of Anne Frank is
                  still the required reading for these courses. I have learned far more on
                  this website about Eastern Europe than in any general course given in this
                  country.
                  Noreen
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