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Re: [S-R] Need some advice

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  • Robin
    Thanks John! I scanned the certificate in two parts and uploaded it into the files section. I would appreciate any help you can give, especially with the
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 2, 2002
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      Thanks John! I scanned the certificate in two parts and uploaded it
      into the files section. I would appreciate any help you can give,
      especially with the handwriting! Thanks again!

      Robin




      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "John M," <jmatsko4@c...> wrote:
      > At 11:42 PM 11/1/2002 +0000, you wrote:
      > >Hi All,
      > >
      > >My mom was recently given my grandmother's baptismal certificate.
      It
      > >is in Russian and either Slavic, Church Slavic or something else.
      I
      > >found a couple web sites that I was able to very crudely translate
      > >some of the words, but I didn't find all of the words and also the
      > >writing is very difficult to read. Can anyone tell me where I can
      > >get help reading the handwriting and deciphering the rest of the
      > >certificate. I would greatly appreciate any help at all. Thanks!
      > >
      > >Robin
      >
      > If you can scan it you have a couple of options. The first is that
      you can
      > upload it to the file area of Slovak-Roots or other website and
      anyone that
      > has an understanding of Cyrillic can look at it and try to
      translate it for
      > you. Another option is to send a copy to someone either by E-mail
      or snail
      > mail. I have some experience with Cyrillic and may be able to help
      > you. I'm certain there are others that can also. Trying to read
      Cyrillic
      > cursive is a challenge and that is without the added problems of
      poor
      > penmanship. Some sites to check:
      >
      > http://www.rootsweb.com/~genepool/oldalpha.htm
      >
      > http://amberskyline.com/treasuremaps/oldhand.html
      >
      > http://www.iltrails.org/oldhand.htm
      >
      > John
      >
      > John
    • John M,
      ... As you probably know many of the headings are translated from Cyrillic to I believe Slovak just below the Cyrillic. It appears that this is an official
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 2, 2002
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        At 11:30 PM 11/2/2002 +0000, you wrote:
        >Thanks John! I scanned the certificate in two parts and uploaded it
        >into the files section. I would appreciate any help you can give,
        >especially with the handwriting! Thanks again!
        >
        >Robin

        As you probably know many of the headings are translated from Cyrillic to I
        believe Slovak just below the Cyrillic. It appears that this is an
        official document produced in 1929 from information that was in the church
        register. I'm afraid I had little luck deciphering the cursive
        writing. The following is from the second half-the one with the 5 koruna
        stamp on it.

        It appears she was born on the 29th of January and baptized and confirmed
        on the 31st of January, 1912. I believe her name was Elizabeta. The next
        column Pohlavie = sex list her as a z^ena = female. I don't know what the
        abbreviation Pohod stands for in the next column.

        The next column lists family name (Her mother was Elizbeta Kotko(?) her
        father was Michal Kruvalnicki(?)) and two other items I was not able to
        translate. The next two columns are birth village and residing village and
        house number. It looks like they have Koritnanech and Gasovich(?) written
        in these columns.

        The next column lists the godparents Francis Lelekach(?) and Elizabeta
        Kimch(?). I'm not certain what else is written in this column. I believe
        the name in the next column (second graphic) is Andre Kovar and he may be
        the priest that baptized and confirmed Elizabeta. The seal states is from
        the Greek Catholic office in Koritn~anech. I was unable to find that town
        in Slovakia. The signature next to the seal may be the parish priest or
        the person that prepared the document.

        I'm not certain how helpful this is but it's a start. There may be errors
        in what I've translated. If you have any questions on any other items,
        contact me through a private post.

        John

        > > >Hi All,
        > > >
        > > >My mom was recently given my grandmother's baptismal certificate.
        >It
        > > >is in Russian and either Slavic, Church Slavic or something else.
        >I
        > > >found a couple web sites that I was able to very crudely translate
        > > >some of the words, but I didn't find all of the words and also the
        > > >writing is very difficult to read. Can anyone tell me where I can
        > > >get help reading the handwriting and deciphering the rest of the
        > > >certificate. I would greatly appreciate any help at all. Thanks!
        > > >
        > > >Robin
        > >
        > > If you can scan it you have a couple of options. The first is that
        >you can
        > > upload it to the file area of Slovak-Roots or other website and
        >anyone that
        > > has an understanding of Cyrillic can look at it and try to
        >translate it for
        > > you. Another option is to send a copy to someone either by E-mail
        >or snail
        > > mail. I have some experience with Cyrillic and may be able to help
        > > you. I'm certain there are others that can also. Trying to read
        >Cyrillic
        > > cursive is a challenge and that is without the added problems of
        >poor
        > > penmanship. Some sites to check:
        > >
        > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~genepool/oldalpha.htm
        > >
        > > http://amberskyline.com/treasuremaps/oldhand.html
        > >
        > > http://www.iltrails.org/oldhand.htm
        > >
        > > John
        > >
        > > John
        >
        >
        >To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        >http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
        >SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Richard D. Custer
        The certificate is printed Slovak, Latin, and Church Slavonic/Russian. The writing is Church Slavonic. The pec~at (seal/stamp) is in Czech, Rusyn, and
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 3, 2002
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          The certificate is printed Slovak, Latin, and Church Slavonic/Russian. The
          writing is Church Slavonic. The pec~at (seal/stamp) is in Czech, Rusyn, and
          Hungarian.

          > the priest that baptized and confirmed Elizabeta. The seal states is from
          > the Greek Catholic office in Koritn~anech. I was unable to find that town
          > in Slovakia. The signature next to the seal may be the parish priest or
          > the person that prepared the document.

          The parish was based in the village Korytnjany, in the county of Ung/Uzh,
          eparchy (diocese) of Mukachevo. Korytniany is in the Zakarpatska Oblast of
          Ukraine, a few villages to the south of the city of Uzhhorod. It was mostly
          inhabited by Rusyns, with some Magyars.

          > The next column lists family name (Her mother was Elizbeta Kotko(?) her
          > father was Michal Kruvalnicki(?)) and two other items I was not able to
          > translate. The next two columns are birth village and residing village
          and
          > house number. It looks like they have Koritnanech and Gasovich(?) written
          > in these columns.

          The father is Michael Kryvljanskij and the mother is Elizabeth Kot'ko, both
          Greek Catholic (so probably they were Rusyns) and farmers (zemledilci).

          The child was born in/the parents lived in Chaslovci [today Chaslivci], and
          the child was baptized in Korytnjany. Chaslovci was a mixed Rusyn/Magyar
          village.

          > The next column lists the godparents Francis Lelekach(?) and Elizabeta
          > Kimch(?). I'm not certain what else is written in this column.

          Godparents were Francis Lelekach (a Greek Catholic, probably a Rusyn) and
          Elizabeth Kish Rolkova (a Roman Catholic, probably a Magyar)


          Rich Custer
        • Robin
          Thanks Rich and by the way, thanks to everyone who responded to my e- mail. You ve all be so helpful! Rich, if I may, I d like to ask you a couple more
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 4, 2002
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            Thanks Rich and by the way, thanks to everyone who responded to my e-
            mail. You've all be so helpful! Rich, if I may, I'd like to ask you
            a couple more questions. You mentioned the diocese of Mukachevo. Is
            that the name of another village? Also, you mentioned that Korytnany
            is in the Zakarpastska Oblast of Ukraine...what does that mean? As
            you can tell, I'm not very up on the history of the country, so any
            help you can give to clear that up for me would be much
            appreciated.

            Many, many thanks again!

            Robin

            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "Richard D. Custer" <rcuster@e...> wrote:
            > The certificate is printed Slovak, Latin, and Church
            Slavonic/Russian. The
            > writing is Church Slavonic. The pec~at (seal/stamp) is in Czech,
            Rusyn, and
            > Hungarian.
            >
            > > the priest that baptized and confirmed Elizabeta. The seal
            states is from
            > > the Greek Catholic office in Koritn~anech. I was unable to find
            that town
            > > in Slovakia. The signature next to the seal may be the parish
            priest or
            > > the person that prepared the document.
            >
            > The parish was based in the village Korytnjany, in the county of
            Ung/Uzh,
            > eparchy (diocese) of Mukachevo. Korytniany is in the Zakarpatska
            Oblast of
            > Ukraine, a few villages to the south of the city of Uzhhorod. It
            was mostly
            > inhabited by Rusyns, with some Magyars.
            >
            > > The next column lists family name (Her mother was Elizbeta Kotko
            (?) her
            > > father was Michal Kruvalnicki(?)) and two other items I was not
            able to
            > > translate. The next two columns are birth village and residing
            village
            > and
            > > house number. It looks like they have Koritnanech and Gasovich
            (?) written
            > > in these columns.
            >
            > The father is Michael Kryvljanskij and the mother is Elizabeth
            Kot'ko, both
            > Greek Catholic (so probably they were Rusyns) and farmers
            (zemledilci).
            >
            > The child was born in/the parents lived in Chaslovci [today
            Chaslivci], and
            > the child was baptized in Korytnjany. Chaslovci was a mixed
            Rusyn/Magyar
            > village.
            >
            > > The next column lists the godparents Francis Lelekach(?) and
            Elizabeta
            > > Kimch(?). I'm not certain what else is written in this column.
            >
            > Godparents were Francis Lelekach (a Greek Catholic, probably a
            Rusyn) and
            > Elizabeth Kish Rolkova (a Roman Catholic, probably a Magyar)
            >
            >
            > Rich Custer
          • Richard D. Custer
            Robin, Some links for you to check out-- on Mukachevo: http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Mukachevo/ a very old history of the Eparchy of Mukachevo (old name
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 4, 2002
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              Robin,
              Some links for you to check out--

              on Mukachevo:
              http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Mukachevo/

              a very old history of the Eparchy of Mukachevo (old name Munkacs)
              http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10634a.htm

              Information on the Zakarpatska Oblast (Transcarpathian District) of Ukraine:
              http://www.zakarpattja.westportal.net/eng/5.html

              Mukachevo is a city in Ukraine. The Zakarpatska Oblast of Ukraine was
              originally part of the Kingdom of Hungary until the end of WWI, when it
              became part of the first Czechoslovak Republic as Subcarpathian Rus' /
              Carpatho-Ruthenia. After 1938 it was taken over by Hungary but part of the
              territory declared independence briefly as Carpatho-Ukraine. By 1945 the
              territory was given to the Soviet Union & became part of the Ukrainian SSR
              as "Zakarpatska Oblast" (Transcarpathian Region). Since 1991 it's part of
              the independent Republic of Ukraine.

              The Byzantine/Greek Catholic Eparchy (diocese) of Mukachevo actually is now
              headquartered in the city of Uzhhorod, where the bishop lives and the
              cathedral is. It covers all Greek Catholic parishes in the Zakarpatska
              Oblast, including Chaslovci / Korytniany.

              RDC

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Robin " <winner3@...>
              To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 7:56 PM
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Need some advice


              > Thanks Rich and by the way, thanks to everyone who responded to my e-
              > mail. You've all be so helpful! Rich, if I may, I'd like to ask you
              > a couple more questions. You mentioned the diocese of Mukachevo. Is
              > that the name of another village? Also, you mentioned that Korytnany
              > is in the Zakarpastska Oblast of Ukraine...what does that mean? As
              > you can tell, I'm not very up on the history of the country, so any
              > help you can give to clear that up for me would be much
              > appreciated.
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