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Need some advice

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  • Robin
    Hi All, My mom was recently given my grandmother s baptismal certificate. It is in Russian and either Slavic, Church Slavic or something else. I found a
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 1, 2002
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      Hi All,

      My mom was recently given my grandmother's baptismal certificate. It
      is in Russian and either Slavic, Church Slavic or something else. I
      found a couple web sites that I was able to very crudely translate
      some of the words, but I didn't find all of the words and also the
      writing is very difficult to read. Can anyone tell me where I can
      get help reading the handwriting and deciphering the rest of the
      certificate. I would greatly appreciate any help at all. Thanks!

      Robin
    • John M,
      ... If you can scan it you have a couple of options. The first is that you can upload it to the file area of Slovak-Roots or other website and anyone that has
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 1, 2002
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        At 11:42 PM 11/1/2002 +0000, you wrote:
        >Hi All,
        >
        >My mom was recently given my grandmother's baptismal certificate. It
        >is in Russian and either Slavic, Church Slavic or something else. I
        >found a couple web sites that I was able to very crudely translate
        >some of the words, but I didn't find all of the words and also the
        >writing is very difficult to read. Can anyone tell me where I can
        >get help reading the handwriting and deciphering the rest of the
        >certificate. I would greatly appreciate any help at all. Thanks!
        >
        >Robin

        If you can scan it you have a couple of options. The first is that you can
        upload it to the file area of Slovak-Roots or other website and anyone that
        has an understanding of Cyrillic can look at it and try to translate it for
        you. Another option is to send a copy to someone either by E-mail or snail
        mail. I have some experience with Cyrillic and may be able to help
        you. I'm certain there are others that can also. Trying to read Cyrillic
        cursive is a challenge and that is without the added problems of poor
        penmanship. Some sites to check:

        http://www.rootsweb.com/~genepool/oldalpha.htm

        http://amberskyline.com/treasuremaps/oldhand.html

        http://www.iltrails.org/oldhand.htm

        John

        John
      • Konekta
        I just want to express my appreciation to all, who are using the term Slavic instead of Slavonic. Thank you. Vladimir ... From: John M, To:
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 2, 2002
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          I just want to express my appreciation to all, who are using the term Slavic instead of Slavonic.
          Thank you.
          Vladimir
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: John M,
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 2:50 AM
          Subject: Re: [S-R] Need some advice


          At 11:42 PM 11/1/2002 +0000, you wrote:
          >Hi All,
          >
          >My mom was recently given my grandmother's baptismal certificate. It
          >is in Russian and either Slavic, Church Slavic or something else. I
          >found a couple web sites that I was able to very crudely translate
          >some of the words, but I didn't find all of the words and also the
          >writing is very difficult to read. Can anyone tell me where I can
          >get help reading the handwriting and deciphering the rest of the
          >certificate. I would greatly appreciate any help at all. Thanks!
          >
          >Robin

          If you can scan it you have a couple of options. The first is that you can
          upload it to the file area of Slovak-Roots or other website and anyone that
          has an understanding of Cyrillic can look at it and try to translate it for
          you. Another option is to send a copy to someone either by E-mail or snail
          mail. I have some experience with Cyrillic and may be able to help
          you. I'm certain there are others that can also. Trying to read Cyrillic
          cursive is a challenge and that is without the added problems of poor
          penmanship. Some sites to check:

          http://www.rootsweb.com/~genepool/oldalpha.htm

          http://amberskyline.com/treasuremaps/oldhand.html

          http://www.iltrails.org/oldhand.htm

          John

          John



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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Frank
          ... It ... What was your GM s religion ? Assuming you meant an American G.C. or Orthodox religion baptismal certificate ? Did you actually mean Russian
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 2, 2002
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            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "Robin " <winner3@s...> wrote:
            > Hi All,
            >
            > My mom was recently given my grandmother's baptismal certificate.
            It
            > is in Russian and either Slavic, Church Slavic or something else. I
            > found a couple web sites that I was able to very crudely translate
            > some of the words, but I didn't find all of the words and also the
            > writing is very difficult to read. Can anyone tell me where I can
            > get help reading the handwriting and deciphering the rest of the
            > certificate. I would greatly appreciate any help at all. Thanks!
            >
            > Robin

            What was your GM's religion ?
            Assuming you meant an American G.C. or Orthodox religion baptismal
            certificate ?
            Did you actually mean Russian Cyrillic or Old Church Slavonic ?
            R
            ussian Orthodox has a standard form for sacramental registers.
            B bI || |/| C b |/| 3 b M E T P |/| | E C K O |/|

            K P E ||| E H |/| I A = baptism
            also there are short-form certificates

            Slavic can be a branch of the Indo-European family of
            languages, usually divided into East Slavic, West Slavic,
            and South Slavic.

            East Slavic (Russian, Ukrainian, Byelorussian)
            West Slavic (Polish, Czech, Slovak, Sorbian)
            South Slavic (Croatian, Serbian, Slovenian, Macedonian, Bulgarian,
            Old Church Slavonic)
          • Robin
            ... My grandmother s religion was Greek Catholic Orthodox. I m pretty sure that s what kind of church the certificate came from. I scanned it and put it in
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 2, 2002
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              > What was your GM's religion ?
              > Assuming you meant an American G.C. or Orthodox religion baptismal
              > certificate ?
              > Did you actually mean Russian Cyrillic or Old Church Slavonic ?
              > R
              > ussian Orthodox has a standard form for sacramental registers.
              > B bI || |/| C b |/| 3 b M E T P |/| | E C K O |/|
              >
              > K P E ||| E H |/| I A = baptism
              > also there are short-form certificates
              >
              > Slavic can be a branch of the Indo-European family of
              > languages, usually divided into East Slavic, West Slavic,
              > and South Slavic.
              >
              > East Slavic (Russian, Ukrainian, Byelorussian)
              > West Slavic (Polish, Czech, Slovak, Sorbian)
              > South Slavic (Croatian, Serbian, Slovenian, Macedonian, Bulgarian,
              > Old Church Slavonic)


              My grandmother's religion was Greek Catholic Orthodox. I'm pretty
              sure that's what kind of church the certificate came from. I scanned
              it and put it in the files section of this newsgroup. Thanks!
            • Robin
              Thanks John! I scanned the certificate in two parts and uploaded it into the files section. I would appreciate any help you can give, especially with the
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 2, 2002
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                Thanks John! I scanned the certificate in two parts and uploaded it
                into the files section. I would appreciate any help you can give,
                especially with the handwriting! Thanks again!

                Robin




                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "John M," <jmatsko4@c...> wrote:
                > At 11:42 PM 11/1/2002 +0000, you wrote:
                > >Hi All,
                > >
                > >My mom was recently given my grandmother's baptismal certificate.
                It
                > >is in Russian and either Slavic, Church Slavic or something else.
                I
                > >found a couple web sites that I was able to very crudely translate
                > >some of the words, but I didn't find all of the words and also the
                > >writing is very difficult to read. Can anyone tell me where I can
                > >get help reading the handwriting and deciphering the rest of the
                > >certificate. I would greatly appreciate any help at all. Thanks!
                > >
                > >Robin
                >
                > If you can scan it you have a couple of options. The first is that
                you can
                > upload it to the file area of Slovak-Roots or other website and
                anyone that
                > has an understanding of Cyrillic can look at it and try to
                translate it for
                > you. Another option is to send a copy to someone either by E-mail
                or snail
                > mail. I have some experience with Cyrillic and may be able to help
                > you. I'm certain there are others that can also. Trying to read
                Cyrillic
                > cursive is a challenge and that is without the added problems of
                poor
                > penmanship. Some sites to check:
                >
                > http://www.rootsweb.com/~genepool/oldalpha.htm
                >
                > http://amberskyline.com/treasuremaps/oldhand.html
                >
                > http://www.iltrails.org/oldhand.htm
                >
                > John
                >
                > John
              • John M,
                ... As you probably know many of the headings are translated from Cyrillic to I believe Slovak just below the Cyrillic. It appears that this is an official
                Message 7 of 10 , Nov 2, 2002
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                  At 11:30 PM 11/2/2002 +0000, you wrote:
                  >Thanks John! I scanned the certificate in two parts and uploaded it
                  >into the files section. I would appreciate any help you can give,
                  >especially with the handwriting! Thanks again!
                  >
                  >Robin

                  As you probably know many of the headings are translated from Cyrillic to I
                  believe Slovak just below the Cyrillic. It appears that this is an
                  official document produced in 1929 from information that was in the church
                  register. I'm afraid I had little luck deciphering the cursive
                  writing. The following is from the second half-the one with the 5 koruna
                  stamp on it.

                  It appears she was born on the 29th of January and baptized and confirmed
                  on the 31st of January, 1912. I believe her name was Elizabeta. The next
                  column Pohlavie = sex list her as a z^ena = female. I don't know what the
                  abbreviation Pohod stands for in the next column.

                  The next column lists family name (Her mother was Elizbeta Kotko(?) her
                  father was Michal Kruvalnicki(?)) and two other items I was not able to
                  translate. The next two columns are birth village and residing village and
                  house number. It looks like they have Koritnanech and Gasovich(?) written
                  in these columns.

                  The next column lists the godparents Francis Lelekach(?) and Elizabeta
                  Kimch(?). I'm not certain what else is written in this column. I believe
                  the name in the next column (second graphic) is Andre Kovar and he may be
                  the priest that baptized and confirmed Elizabeta. The seal states is from
                  the Greek Catholic office in Koritn~anech. I was unable to find that town
                  in Slovakia. The signature next to the seal may be the parish priest or
                  the person that prepared the document.

                  I'm not certain how helpful this is but it's a start. There may be errors
                  in what I've translated. If you have any questions on any other items,
                  contact me through a private post.

                  John

                  > > >Hi All,
                  > > >
                  > > >My mom was recently given my grandmother's baptismal certificate.
                  >It
                  > > >is in Russian and either Slavic, Church Slavic or something else.
                  >I
                  > > >found a couple web sites that I was able to very crudely translate
                  > > >some of the words, but I didn't find all of the words and also the
                  > > >writing is very difficult to read. Can anyone tell me where I can
                  > > >get help reading the handwriting and deciphering the rest of the
                  > > >certificate. I would greatly appreciate any help at all. Thanks!
                  > > >
                  > > >Robin
                  > >
                  > > If you can scan it you have a couple of options. The first is that
                  >you can
                  > > upload it to the file area of Slovak-Roots or other website and
                  >anyone that
                  > > has an understanding of Cyrillic can look at it and try to
                  >translate it for
                  > > you. Another option is to send a copy to someone either by E-mail
                  >or snail
                  > > mail. I have some experience with Cyrillic and may be able to help
                  > > you. I'm certain there are others that can also. Trying to read
                  >Cyrillic
                  > > cursive is a challenge and that is without the added problems of
                  >poor
                  > > penmanship. Some sites to check:
                  > >
                  > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~genepool/oldalpha.htm
                  > >
                  > > http://amberskyline.com/treasuremaps/oldhand.html
                  > >
                  > > http://www.iltrails.org/oldhand.htm
                  > >
                  > > John
                  > >
                  > > John
                  >
                  >
                  >To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  >http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to
                  >SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • Richard D. Custer
                  The certificate is printed Slovak, Latin, and Church Slavonic/Russian. The writing is Church Slavonic. The pec~at (seal/stamp) is in Czech, Rusyn, and
                  Message 8 of 10 , Nov 3, 2002
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                    The certificate is printed Slovak, Latin, and Church Slavonic/Russian. The
                    writing is Church Slavonic. The pec~at (seal/stamp) is in Czech, Rusyn, and
                    Hungarian.

                    > the priest that baptized and confirmed Elizabeta. The seal states is from
                    > the Greek Catholic office in Koritn~anech. I was unable to find that town
                    > in Slovakia. The signature next to the seal may be the parish priest or
                    > the person that prepared the document.

                    The parish was based in the village Korytnjany, in the county of Ung/Uzh,
                    eparchy (diocese) of Mukachevo. Korytniany is in the Zakarpatska Oblast of
                    Ukraine, a few villages to the south of the city of Uzhhorod. It was mostly
                    inhabited by Rusyns, with some Magyars.

                    > The next column lists family name (Her mother was Elizbeta Kotko(?) her
                    > father was Michal Kruvalnicki(?)) and two other items I was not able to
                    > translate. The next two columns are birth village and residing village
                    and
                    > house number. It looks like they have Koritnanech and Gasovich(?) written
                    > in these columns.

                    The father is Michael Kryvljanskij and the mother is Elizabeth Kot'ko, both
                    Greek Catholic (so probably they were Rusyns) and farmers (zemledilci).

                    The child was born in/the parents lived in Chaslovci [today Chaslivci], and
                    the child was baptized in Korytnjany. Chaslovci was a mixed Rusyn/Magyar
                    village.

                    > The next column lists the godparents Francis Lelekach(?) and Elizabeta
                    > Kimch(?). I'm not certain what else is written in this column.

                    Godparents were Francis Lelekach (a Greek Catholic, probably a Rusyn) and
                    Elizabeth Kish Rolkova (a Roman Catholic, probably a Magyar)


                    Rich Custer
                  • Robin
                    Thanks Rich and by the way, thanks to everyone who responded to my e- mail. You ve all be so helpful! Rich, if I may, I d like to ask you a couple more
                    Message 9 of 10 , Nov 4, 2002
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                      Thanks Rich and by the way, thanks to everyone who responded to my e-
                      mail. You've all be so helpful! Rich, if I may, I'd like to ask you
                      a couple more questions. You mentioned the diocese of Mukachevo. Is
                      that the name of another village? Also, you mentioned that Korytnany
                      is in the Zakarpastska Oblast of Ukraine...what does that mean? As
                      you can tell, I'm not very up on the history of the country, so any
                      help you can give to clear that up for me would be much
                      appreciated.

                      Many, many thanks again!

                      Robin

                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "Richard D. Custer" <rcuster@e...> wrote:
                      > The certificate is printed Slovak, Latin, and Church
                      Slavonic/Russian. The
                      > writing is Church Slavonic. The pec~at (seal/stamp) is in Czech,
                      Rusyn, and
                      > Hungarian.
                      >
                      > > the priest that baptized and confirmed Elizabeta. The seal
                      states is from
                      > > the Greek Catholic office in Koritn~anech. I was unable to find
                      that town
                      > > in Slovakia. The signature next to the seal may be the parish
                      priest or
                      > > the person that prepared the document.
                      >
                      > The parish was based in the village Korytnjany, in the county of
                      Ung/Uzh,
                      > eparchy (diocese) of Mukachevo. Korytniany is in the Zakarpatska
                      Oblast of
                      > Ukraine, a few villages to the south of the city of Uzhhorod. It
                      was mostly
                      > inhabited by Rusyns, with some Magyars.
                      >
                      > > The next column lists family name (Her mother was Elizbeta Kotko
                      (?) her
                      > > father was Michal Kruvalnicki(?)) and two other items I was not
                      able to
                      > > translate. The next two columns are birth village and residing
                      village
                      > and
                      > > house number. It looks like they have Koritnanech and Gasovich
                      (?) written
                      > > in these columns.
                      >
                      > The father is Michael Kryvljanskij and the mother is Elizabeth
                      Kot'ko, both
                      > Greek Catholic (so probably they were Rusyns) and farmers
                      (zemledilci).
                      >
                      > The child was born in/the parents lived in Chaslovci [today
                      Chaslivci], and
                      > the child was baptized in Korytnjany. Chaslovci was a mixed
                      Rusyn/Magyar
                      > village.
                      >
                      > > The next column lists the godparents Francis Lelekach(?) and
                      Elizabeta
                      > > Kimch(?). I'm not certain what else is written in this column.
                      >
                      > Godparents were Francis Lelekach (a Greek Catholic, probably a
                      Rusyn) and
                      > Elizabeth Kish Rolkova (a Roman Catholic, probably a Magyar)
                      >
                      >
                      > Rich Custer
                    • Richard D. Custer
                      Robin, Some links for you to check out-- on Mukachevo: http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Mukachevo/ a very old history of the Eparchy of Mukachevo (old name
                      Message 10 of 10 , Nov 4, 2002
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                        Robin,
                        Some links for you to check out--

                        on Mukachevo:
                        http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Mukachevo/

                        a very old history of the Eparchy of Mukachevo (old name Munkacs)
                        http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10634a.htm

                        Information on the Zakarpatska Oblast (Transcarpathian District) of Ukraine:
                        http://www.zakarpattja.westportal.net/eng/5.html

                        Mukachevo is a city in Ukraine. The Zakarpatska Oblast of Ukraine was
                        originally part of the Kingdom of Hungary until the end of WWI, when it
                        became part of the first Czechoslovak Republic as Subcarpathian Rus' /
                        Carpatho-Ruthenia. After 1938 it was taken over by Hungary but part of the
                        territory declared independence briefly as Carpatho-Ukraine. By 1945 the
                        territory was given to the Soviet Union & became part of the Ukrainian SSR
                        as "Zakarpatska Oblast" (Transcarpathian Region). Since 1991 it's part of
                        the independent Republic of Ukraine.

                        The Byzantine/Greek Catholic Eparchy (diocese) of Mukachevo actually is now
                        headquartered in the city of Uzhhorod, where the bishop lives and the
                        cathedral is. It covers all Greek Catholic parishes in the Zakarpatska
                        Oblast, including Chaslovci / Korytniany.

                        RDC

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Robin " <winner3@...>
                        To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 7:56 PM
                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Need some advice


                        > Thanks Rich and by the way, thanks to everyone who responded to my e-
                        > mail. You've all be so helpful! Rich, if I may, I'd like to ask you
                        > a couple more questions. You mentioned the diocese of Mukachevo. Is
                        > that the name of another village? Also, you mentioned that Korytnany
                        > is in the Zakarpastska Oblast of Ukraine...what does that mean? As
                        > you can tell, I'm not very up on the history of the country, so any
                        > help you can give to clear that up for me would be much
                        > appreciated.
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