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RE: [S-R] Slovak Selkas

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  • Caye Caswick
    Cleveland has some of the BEST searchable databases that I ve stumbled upon so far -- and the SSDI (Social Security Death Index) is also invaluable. Good
    Message 1 of 21 , Jul 23, 2002
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      Cleveland has some of the BEST searchable databases that I've stumbled upon so far -- and the SSDI (Social Security Death Index) is also invaluable. Good luck. I learned my grandmother's mother's maiden name (and my grandfather's as well) from their marriage license which only cost two bucks from Cuyahoga County (uncertified). Their obituary (a/k/a Necrology) database (from the Cleveland Public Library databases) is riddled with typo-z, but if you are clever, you can really get a ton of information from that database -- including in some cases last known residence -- you can search it by church name, funeral home, or actually any text appearing anywhere in the record -- and you can narrow a search as well. There is also a marriage database -- be prepared, you just might discover that your relations had prior marriages they never told anyone about -- I found two in my family alone -- and my family is microscopic in size.
      Caye

      annavanek@... wrote: You can try finding naturalization papers, which I had success with getting places of birth, or military records.

      Some counties/states have on-line archives, so if you know where your grandfather lived, people may be able to point you in some of the on-line indexes.

      If your Steve was from the Cleveland Ohio area, let me know. I have a record that I will share with you privately. No relation, just access to some data.

      Regards,
      Anna
      "djdarrin" <dbartlett@...> wrote:

      >I'm researching my family roots and need some help. My mom's dad
      >Stephen Joseph Selka, born 10/5/1896. His father was a John Selka
      >and his mom was Katherine (I don't know her last). He and his
      >brother, Joseph (born 7/2/1903), came to the U.S. in the early
      >1900's. I'm trying to find out any information on their birth
      >places and family prior to coming to the states. Can anyone point
      >me in the right direction or good resources where I could look up
      >his parents or even find out where he was born? Thanks!
      >
      >


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    • annavanek@netscape.net
      I have used the county archives, in some cases they have on-line indexes which lowers the cost when mailing in the request. Do a search for the county with
      Message 2 of 21 , Jul 24, 2002
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        I have used the county archives, in some cases they have on-line indexes which lowers the cost when mailing in the request. Do a search for the county with archive and see if the area you are looking for comes up. In one case, but took a while, was the INS - there I didn't have much to start with except entry into the US and date. The NARA should also have these filmed, I believe, so you can try the FHL to see what they have also - you will need to know the county to get the right films.
        Brenda Detrio <bdetrio@...-esa.gov> wrote:

        >Some tips please on where you found naturalization papers - State, County,
        >INS or NARA?
        >
        >-----Original Message-----
        >From:   annavanek@... [SMTP:annavanek@...]
        >Sent:   Tuesday, July 23, 2002 3:21 PM
        >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject:    RE: [S-R] Slovak Selkas
        >
        >You can try finding naturalization papers, which I had success with getting
        >places of birth, or military records.
        >
        >Some counties/states have on-line archives, so if you know where your
        >grandfather lived, people may be able to point you in some of the on-line
        >indexes.
        >
        >If your Steve was from the Cleveland Ohio area, let me know.  I have a
        >record that I will share with you privately. No relation, just access to
        >some data.
        >
        >Regards,
        >Anna
        >"djdarrin" <dbartlett@...> wrote:
        >
        >>I'm researching my family roots and need some help.  My mom's dad
        >>Stephen Joseph Selka, born 10/5/1896.  His father was a John Selka
        >>and his mom was Katherine (I don't know her last).  He and his
        >>brother, Joseph (born 7/2/1903), came to the U.S. in the early
        >>1900's.  I'm trying to find out any information on their birth
        >>places and family prior to coming to the states.  Can anyone point
        >>me in the right direction or good resources where I could look up
        >>his parents or even find out where he was born?  Thanks!
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >__________________________________________________________________
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        >Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape!
        >http://shopnow.netscape.com/
        >
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        >http://webmail.netscape.com/
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        >
        >


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      • Konekta
        I already do not know, who originally was interested in Selkas, but , please, consider this: If your Selka really was a Selka, then, if he emigrated before
        Message 3 of 21 , Jul 24, 2002
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          I already do not know, who originally was interested in Selkas, but , please, consider this:
          If your Selka really was a Selka, then, if he emigrated before 1919, he may also be listed in Ellis Island and somewhere else too, under the name/spelling Szelka. Everyone (99%) before that time, had a hungarian spelling.
          Regards,
          Vladimir Bohinc
          www.konekta.sk

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: annavanek@...
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 1:21 PM
          Subject: RE: [S-R] Slovak Selkas


          I have used the county archives, in some cases they have on-line indexes which lowers the cost when mailing in the request. Do a search for the county with archive and see if the area you are looking for comes up. In one case, but took a while, was the INS - there I didn't have much to start with except entry into the US and date. The NARA should also have these filmed, I believe, so you can try the FHL to see what they have also - you will need to know the county to get the right films.
          Brenda Detrio <bdetrio@...-esa.gov> wrote:

          >Some tips please on where you found naturalization papers - State, County,
          >INS or NARA?
          >
          >-----Original Message-----
          >From: annavanek@... [SMTP:annavanek@...]
          >Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 3:21 PM
          >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: RE: [S-R] Slovak Selkas
          >
          >You can try finding naturalization papers, which I had success with getting
          >places of birth, or military records.
          >
          >Some counties/states have on-line archives, so if you know where your
          >grandfather lived, people may be able to point you in some of the on-line
          >indexes.
          >
          >If your Steve was from the Cleveland Ohio area, let me know. I have a
          >record that I will share with you privately. No relation, just access to
          >some data.
          >
          >Regards,
          >Anna
          >"djdarrin" <dbartlett@...> wrote:
          >
          >>I'm researching my family roots and need some help. My mom's dad
          >>Stephen Joseph Selka, born 10/5/1896. His father was a John Selka
          >>and his mom was Katherine (I don't know her last). He and his
          >>brother, Joseph (born 7/2/1903), came to the U.S. in the early
          >>1900's. I'm trying to find out any information on their birth
          >>places and family prior to coming to the states. Can anyone point
          >>me in the right direction or good resources where I could look up
          >>his parents or even find out where he was born? Thanks!
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >__________________________________________________________________
          >Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas.
          >Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape!
          >http://shopnow.netscape.com/
          >
          >Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at
          >http://webmail.netscape.com/
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >


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        • John M.
          ... Taking Vladimir s advice, I checked Szelkas in the EIDB and found an Istavan Szelka going to his father John in Lakewood/Cleveland, OH in 1912. His age
          Message 4 of 21 , Jul 24, 2002
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            At 12:05 PM 7/23/02 -0600, you wrote:
            >At 11:35 AM 7/23/02 -0600, you wrote:
            > >At 05:09 PM 7/23/02 +0000, you wrote:
            > >The Ellis Island Database shows a 16 year old Joseph Selka arriving in 1920
            > >from Rybnik, Czechoslovakia. That's would be a good match for your
            > >Joseph. That year difference could be a slight error. There was no
            > >Stephen Selka listed.
            > >
            > >John
            >
            >I checked the manifest and this Joseph was traveling to Cleveland with his
            >mother Marya to their husband and father Johan. This was probably not the
            >correct Joseph because his mother's name was not Katherine. You might
            >check the other Selkas in the EIDB to see if you might get a hint regarding
            >the village they were from. I found a couple of Selka in the SK online
            >phone directory in Nova Dedina and one in Levice.
            >
            >John

            Taking Vladimir's advice, I checked Szelkas in the EIDB and found an
            Istavan Szelka going to his father John in Lakewood/Cleveland, OH in
            1912. His age was 16 so that would fit the 1896 birth date. I also found
            a Jozsef Szelka,8, travelling with his mother Janosne(sp) Szelza to a John
            Szelka in Cleveland in 1910. Both Istvan and Jozef were from "Garannyfalu
            (now known as Tekovska Nova Ves, which was known as Garamujfalu 1863-1913),
            Hungary." Everything seems to match except the mother's given names in
            both cases. Marya Selza and Janosne(sp) Szelza were the two
            mothers. Neither are Katherine. The father's name was John in both
            cases. Janosne(sp) lists her sister Kendelene(sp) Szolf(sp) as her
            relative in Garamujfalu.

            >I found a couple of Selka in the SK online phone directory in Nova Dedina
            >and one in Levice.

            The village of Tekovska Nova Ves (which is just to the southwest of Nova
            Dedina) appears to be the birth place of your grandfather Steven. If you
            use www.expedia.com and do a search for Tekovska Nova Ves, it will show you
            its location. It will take a bit more effort to separate the two
            families. Good luck.

            John
          • djdarrin
            Thanks for all the help! My mother and I are digging into this and trying to find the known birthday of Josef (Jozsef?) to see which could be right. As we
            Message 5 of 21 , Jul 25, 2002
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              Thanks for all the help! My mother and I are digging into this and
              trying to find the known birthday of Josef (Jozsef?) to see which
              could be right. As we all know, our pasts are sometimes different
              than we were told and having two different mothers for the children
              is not as far fetched as we use to believe!

              Darrin

              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "John M." <jmatsko4@c...> wrote:
              > At 12:05 PM 7/23/02 -0600, you wrote:
              > >At 11:35 AM 7/23/02 -0600, you wrote:
              > > >At 05:09 PM 7/23/02 +0000, you wrote:
              > > >The Ellis Island Database shows a 16 year old Joseph Selka
              arriving in 1920
              > > >from Rybnik, Czechoslovakia. That's would be a good match for
              your
              > > >Joseph. That year difference could be a slight error. There
              was no
              > > >Stephen Selka listed.
              > > >
              > > >John
              > >
              > >I checked the manifest and this Joseph was traveling to Cleveland
              with his
              > >mother Marya to their husband and father Johan. This was
              probably not the
              > >correct Joseph because his mother's name was not Katherine. You
              might
              > >check the other Selkas in the EIDB to see if you might get a hint
              regarding
              > >the village they were from. I found a couple of Selka in the SK
              online
              > >phone directory in Nova Dedina and one in Levice.
              > >
              > >John
              >
              > Taking Vladimir's advice, I checked Szelkas in the EIDB and found
              an
              > Istavan Szelka going to his father John in Lakewood/Cleveland, OH
              in
              > 1912. His age was 16 so that would fit the 1896 birth date. I
              also found
              > a Jozsef Szelka,8, travelling with his mother Janosne(sp) Szelza
              to a John
              > Szelka in Cleveland in 1910. Both Istvan and Jozef were
              from "Garannyfalu
              > (now known as Tekovska Nova Ves, which was known as Garamujfalu
              1863-1913),
              > Hungary." Everything seems to match except the mother's given
              names in
              > both cases. Marya Selza and Janosne(sp) Szelza were the two
              > mothers. Neither are Katherine. The father's name was John in
              both
              > cases. Janosne(sp) lists her sister Kendelene(sp) Szolf(sp) as
              her
              > relative in Garamujfalu.
              >
              > >I found a couple of Selka in the SK online phone directory in
              Nova Dedina
              > >and one in Levice.
              >
              > The village of Tekovska Nova Ves (which is just to the southwest
              of Nova
              > Dedina) appears to be the birth place of your grandfather Steven.
              If you
              > use www.expedia.com and do a search for Tekovska Nova Ves, it will
              show you
              > its location. It will take a bit more effort to separate the two
              > families. Good luck.
              >
              > John
            • Konekta
              Janosne Szelka means wife of Janos Szelka, so her given name can be Katalin or whatever else. Regards, Vladimir ... From: John M. To:
              Message 6 of 21 , Jul 25, 2002
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                Janosne Szelka means wife of Janos Szelka, so her given name can be Katalin or whatever else.
                Regards, Vladimir
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: John M.
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 8:05 AM
                Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Selkas


                At 12:05 PM 7/23/02 -0600, you wrote:
                >At 11:35 AM 7/23/02 -0600, you wrote:
                > >At 05:09 PM 7/23/02 +0000, you wrote:
                > >The Ellis Island Database shows a 16 year old Joseph Selka arriving in 1920
                > >from Rybnik, Czechoslovakia. That's would be a good match for your
                > >Joseph. That year difference could be a slight error. There was no
                > >Stephen Selka listed.
                > >
                > >John
                >
                >I checked the manifest and this Joseph was traveling to Cleveland with his
                >mother Marya to their husband and father Johan. This was probably not the
                >correct Joseph because his mother's name was not Katherine. You might
                >check the other Selkas in the EIDB to see if you might get a hint regarding
                >the village they were from. I found a couple of Selka in the SK online
                >phone directory in Nova Dedina and one in Levice.
                >
                >John

                Taking Vladimir's advice, I checked Szelkas in the EIDB and found an
                Istavan Szelka going to his father John in Lakewood/Cleveland, OH in
                1912. His age was 16 so that would fit the 1896 birth date. I also found
                a Jozsef Szelka,8, travelling with his mother Janosne(sp) Szelza to a John
                Szelka in Cleveland in 1910. Both Istvan and Jozef were from "Garannyfalu
                (now known as Tekovska Nova Ves, which was known as Garamujfalu 1863-1913),
                Hungary." Everything seems to match except the mother's given names in
                both cases. Marya Selza and Janosne(sp) Szelza were the two
                mothers. Neither are Katherine. The father's name was John in both
                cases. Janosne(sp) lists her sister Kendelene(sp) Szolf(sp) as her
                relative in Garamujfalu.

                >I found a couple of Selka in the SK online phone directory in Nova Dedina
                >and one in Levice.

                The village of Tekovska Nova Ves (which is just to the southwest of Nova
                Dedina) appears to be the birth place of your grandfather Steven. If you
                use www.expedia.com and do a search for Tekovska Nova Ves, it will show you
                its location. It will take a bit more effort to separate the two
                families. Good luck.

                John




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              • John M.
                AT 07:42 PM 7/25/02 +0200, YOU WROTE: Janosne Szelka means wife of Janos Szelka, so her given name can be Katalin or whatever else. regards, Vladimir Vladimir,
                Message 7 of 21 , Jul 25, 2002
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                  AT 07:42 PM 7/25/02 +0200, YOU WROTE:
                  Janosne Szelka means wife of Janos Szelka, so her given name can be Katalin
                  or whatever else.
                  regards, Vladimir

                  Vladimir, it makes sense but have you found this to be a common way for a
                  woman to refer to herself. I don't recall any other case on the manifests
                  I've looked at that the woman's given name wasn't used. In fact, it seems
                  they very seldom used the ova ending. I couldn't find my mother and
                  sister's entry in a list of about 150 women with the same surname because
                  they were the only two women with that name in the EIDB that used the "ova"
                  ending.

                  John
                • Konekta
                  Dear John, This was a very frequent way of writing the wifes name and you can find it today as well. It is like Mrs. Janos Szelka So, with EIDB you must
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jul 26, 2002
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                    Dear John,
                    This was a very frequent way of writing the wifes "name" and you can find it today as well.
                    It is like " Mrs. Janos Szelka"
                    So, with EIDB you must also take this into account. The name of her husband then ends with "ne".
                    The only thing, that might help in some cases is the name of a relative (mother, fater or siblings), that she left behind.
                    If the entry was late, like in 1920 ties or so, then the Czech spelling would be there and not hungarian, so in such case, she would be Selkova something.
                    Therefore, from the spelling point of view, it does matter very much, when and from which part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire or Czechoslovakia somebody came.
                    If you look more carefully, you will find more such hungarian namings of the wives in EIDB.
                    Try any surname.
                    The Czech ending of "ova" does not neccessarily mean, the woman was married. All female surnames under Czech rule and now, have such ending.
                    ======
                    I will be on my deserved vacation for three weeks, starting this Sunday. Will be able to answer questions when I return.
                    Best to all members,
                    Vladimir

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: John M.
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 7:11 AM
                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Selkas


                    AT 07:42 PM 7/25/02 +0200, YOU WROTE:
                    Janosne Szelka means wife of Janos Szelka, so her given name can be Katalin
                    or whatever else.
                    regards, Vladimir

                    Vladimir, it makes sense but have you found this to be a common way for a
                    woman to refer to herself. I don't recall any other case on the manifests
                    I've looked at that the woman's given name wasn't used. In fact, it seems
                    they very seldom used the ova ending. I couldn't find my mother and
                    sister's entry in a list of about 150 women with the same surname because
                    they were the only two women with that name in the EIDB that used the "ova"
                    ending.

                    John


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                  • John M.
                    ... I agree that it is common method for addressing a married woman in normal social situations but it would seem the immigration service would want the
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jul 26, 2002
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                      At 12:03 PM 7/26/02 +0200, you wrote:
                      >Dear John,
                      >This was a very frequent way of writing the wifes "name" and you can find
                      >it today as well.
                      >It is like " Mrs. Janos Szelka". So, with EIDB you must also take this
                      >into account. The name of her husband then ends with "ne". The only
                      >thing, that might help in some cases is the name of a relative (mother,
                      >fater or siblings), that she left behind.

                      I agree that it is common method for addressing a married woman in normal
                      social situations but it would seem the immigration service would want the
                      woman's given name.

                      >If the entry was late, like in 1920 ties or so, then the Czech spelling
                      >would be there and not hungarian, so in such case, she would be Selkova
                      >something. Therefore, from the spelling point of view, it does matter
                      >very much, when and from which part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire or
                      >Czechoslovakia somebody came.

                      You are right in the case of my mother and six year old sister. In 1920,
                      they had the feminine "ova" ending on their surname. The manifests for an
                      aunt in 1922 and another village woman in 1923 did not have the feminine
                      "ova" ending on their surnames.

                      >If you look more carefully, you will find more such hungarian namings of
                      >the wives in EIDB.
                      >Try any surname. The Czech ending of "ova" does not neccessarily mean,
                      >the woman was married. All female surnames under Czech rule and now, have
                      >such ending.

                      I wonder if anyone else on this list has seen a manifest entry showing the
                      "ne" ending on the husband's given name being used rather than the woman's
                      given name.

                      >I will be on my deserved vacation for three weeks, starting this Sunday.
                      >Will be able to answer questions when I return.

                      Thanks for your contributions and have a great holiday.

                      John
                    • Maureen
                      I have seen it many, many times. Maureen ... From: John M. To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jul 26, 2002
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                        I have seen it many, many times.

                        Maureen
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: John M.
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 2:39 PM
                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Selkas


                        At 12:03 PM 7/26/02 +0200, you wrote:
                        >Dear John,
                        >This was a very frequent way of writing the wifes "name" and you can find
                        >it today as well.
                        >It is like " Mrs. Janos Szelka". So, with EIDB you must also take this
                        >into account. The name of her husband then ends with "ne". The only
                        >thing, that might help in some cases is the name of a relative (mother,
                        >fater or siblings), that she left behind.

                        I agree that it is common method for addressing a married woman in normal
                        social situations but it would seem the immigration service would want the
                        woman's given name.

                        >If the entry was late, like in 1920 ties or so, then the Czech spelling
                        >would be there and not hungarian, so in such case, she would be Selkova
                        >something. Therefore, from the spelling point of view, it does matter
                        >very much, when and from which part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire or
                        >Czechoslovakia somebody came.

                        You are right in the case of my mother and six year old sister. In 1920,
                        they had the feminine "ova" ending on their surname. The manifests for an
                        aunt in 1922 and another village woman in 1923 did not have the feminine
                        "ova" ending on their surnames.

                        >If you look more carefully, you will find more such hungarian namings of
                        >the wives in EIDB.
                        >Try any surname. The Czech ending of "ova" does not neccessarily mean,
                        >the woman was married. All female surnames under Czech rule and now, have
                        >such ending.

                        I wonder if anyone else on this list has seen a manifest entry showing the
                        "ne" ending on the husband's given name being used rather than the woman's
                        given name.

                        >I will be on my deserved vacation for three weeks, starting this Sunday.
                        >Will be able to answer questions when I return.

                        Thanks for your contributions and have a great holiday.

                        John





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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • John M.
                        ... Thanks Maureen. The many, many is intriguing. Any particular area of Upper Hungary you were searching? Most of my searches were for relatives and
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jul 26, 2002
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                          At 02:48 PM 7/26/02 -0400, you wrote:
                          >I have seen it many, many times.
                          >
                          >Maureen

                          Thanks Maureen. The "many, many" is intriguing. Any particular area of
                          Upper Hungary you were searching? Most of my searches were for relatives
                          and surnames from what is now NE Slovakia and I don't recall seeing any
                          manifest entries that used the husband's given name in place of the woman's
                          given name. I have seen what I thought were some feminized masculine given
                          names (i.e. Josefa, Johanna, Wladislawa) but I don't believe these are the
                          same as saying Mrs. Josef Surname, etc.

                          John
                        • Maureen
                          John, I suspect they are on the manifest pages of the family members I have traced -- they are certainly not all members of my family. Sometimes I have seen
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jul 26, 2002
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                            John,

                            I suspect they are on the manifest pages of the family members I have traced -- they are certainly not all members of my family. Sometimes I have seen them as the name of the relative -- mother or sister or wife -- in native village. I have all of my family members manifests (those I have thus far found!) saved on a CD. I'll take a look tonight and let you know how many are in there.

                            Maureen
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: John M.
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 5:14 PM
                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Selkas


                            At 02:48 PM 7/26/02 -0400, you wrote:
                            >I have seen it many, many times.
                            >
                            >Maureen

                            Thanks Maureen. The "many, many" is intriguing. Any particular area of
                            Upper Hungary you were searching? Most of my searches were for relatives
                            and surnames from what is now NE Slovakia and I don't recall seeing any
                            manifest entries that used the husband's given name in place of the woman's
                            given name. I have seen what I thought were some feminized masculine given
                            names (i.e. Josefa, Johanna, Wladislawa) but I don't believe these are the
                            same as saying Mrs. Josef Surname, etc.

                            John





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                          • djdarrin
                            I notice in some of the records I m pulling up from Ellis Island, in the occupation column, there are some numbers written in above the occupation with a date
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jul 30, 2002
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                              I notice in some of the records I'm pulling up from Ellis Island, in
                              the occupation column, there are some numbers written in above the
                              occupation with a date next to it. On Jozsefs, it says 8-154974
                              6/1/39. What does this mean?

                              Darrin

                              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "Maureen" <maureen@d...> wrote:
                              > John,
                              >
                              > I suspect they are on the manifest pages of the family members I
                              have traced -- they are certainly not all members of my family.
                              Sometimes I have seen them as the name of the relative -- mother or
                              sister or wife -- in native village. I have all of my family members
                              manifests (those I have thus far found!) saved on a CD. I'll take a
                              look tonight and let you know how many are in there.
                              >
                              > Maureen
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: John M.
                              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@y...
                              > Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 5:14 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Selkas
                              >
                              >
                              > At 02:48 PM 7/26/02 -0400, you wrote:
                              > >I have seen it many, many times.
                              > >
                              > >Maureen
                              >
                              > Thanks Maureen. The "many, many" is intriguing. Any particular
                              area of
                              > Upper Hungary you were searching? Most of my searches were for
                              relatives
                              > and surnames from what is now NE Slovakia and I don't recall
                              seeing any
                              > manifest entries that used the husband's given name in place of
                              the woman's
                              > given name. I have seen what I thought were some feminized
                              masculine given
                              > names (i.e. Josefa, Johanna, Wladislawa) but I don't believe
                              these are the
                              > same as saying Mrs. Josef Surname, etc.
                              >
                              > John
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • tskvarenina
                              I think it has something to do with the citizenship process. To apply for citizenship, they needed a certificate of arrival from the port of arrival. The
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jul 30, 2002
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                                I think it has something to do with the citizenship process. To apply
                                for citizenship, they needed a certificate of arrival from the port of
                                arrival. The following page has an explanation and examples of the
                                various stages of citizenship:

                                http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~skvarenina/citizenship/becomi
                                ng_a_citizen.htm

                                These papers were for my grandfather, but his Ellis Island record
                                wasn't marked. His cousin that he traveled with was naturalized
                                several years later and did have markings on his line. So I am
                                assuming that the marking began between 1920 and 1925.

                                Tim

                                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "djdarrin" <dbartlett@m...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I notice in some of the records I'm pulling up from Ellis Island, in
                                > the occupation column, there are some numbers written in above the
                                > occupation with a date next to it. On Jozsefs, it says 8-154974
                                > 6/1/39. What does this mean?
                                >
                                > Darrin
                              • djdarrin
                                THanks, Tim. But the mystery on my end is the extreme difference in time between when Joszef came over (1910) and the markings (1939). It would be strange if
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jul 31, 2002
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                                  THanks, Tim. But the mystery on my end is the extreme difference in
                                  time between when Joszef came over (1910) and the markings (1939).
                                  It would be strange if he waited 19 years to be naturalized, since I
                                  know his brother was in WWI as a U.S. citizen in 1917.



                                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "tskvarenina" <tskvarenina@y...> wrote:
                                  > I think it has something to do with the citizenship process. To
                                  apply
                                  > for citizenship, they needed a certificate of arrival from the
                                  port of
                                  > arrival. The following page has an explanation and examples of
                                  the
                                  > various stages of citizenship:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~skvarenina/citizenship/becom
                                  i
                                  > ng_a_citizen.htm
                                  >
                                  > These papers were for my grandfather, but his Ellis Island record
                                  > wasn't marked. His cousin that he traveled with was naturalized
                                  > several years later and did have markings on his line. So I am
                                  > assuming that the marking began between 1920 and 1925.
                                  >
                                  > Tim
                                  >
                                  > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "djdarrin" <dbartlett@m...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I notice in some of the records I'm pulling up from Ellis
                                  Island, in
                                  > > the occupation column, there are some numbers written in above
                                  the
                                  > > occupation with a date next to it. On Jozsefs, it says 8-
                                  154974
                                  > > 6/1/39. What does this mean?
                                  > >
                                  > > Darrin
                                • frankly1us
                                  ... Some emigrants never became American citizens even after 20 years residence. WW I began in August 1914. The U.S. didn t declare war until April 1917. There
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Aug 1, 2002
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                                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "djdarrin" <dbartlett@m...> wrote:
                                    > THanks, Tim. But the mystery on my end is the extreme difference in
                                    > time between when Joszef came over (1910) and the markings (1939).
                                    > It would be strange if he waited 19 years to be naturalized, since I
                                    > know his brother was in WWI as a U.S. citizen in 1917.

                                    Some emigrants never became American citizens even after 20 years residence.

                                    WW I began in August 1914.
                                    The U.S. didn't declare war until April 1917.
                                    There was an Alien Registration Act.
                                    As a result some emigrants hurried to become citizens.

                                    WW II began in September 1939.
                                    The U.S. entered the war in December 1941.
                                    However, many emigrants rushed to become American citizens
                                    1939-1941 even after 40+ years residence in the U.S.

                                    Some ship manifests list emigrants who were already U.S. citizens separately from those that were entering the country for the first time.
                                    The number, place, and date of their naturalization were listed at top of or at right side of surname on the ship manifest.

                                    http://www.cimorelli.com/pie/faq/emigfaqi.htm

                                    >
                                    > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "tskvarenina" <tskvarenina@y...> wrote:
                                    > > I think it has something to do with the citizenship process. To
                                    > apply
                                    > > for citizenship, they needed a certificate of arrival from the
                                    > port of
                                    > > arrival. The following page has an explanation and examples of
                                    > the
                                    > > various stages of citizenship:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~skvarenina/citizenship/becom
                                    > i
                                    > > ng_a_citizen.htm
                                    > >
                                    > > These papers were for my grandfather, but his Ellis Island record
                                    > > wasn't marked. His cousin that he traveled with was naturalized
                                    > > several years later and did have markings on his line. So I am
                                    > > assuming that the marking began between 1920 and 1925.
                                    > >
                                    > > Tim
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "djdarrin" <dbartlett@m...> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I notice in some of the records I'm pulling up from Ellis
                                    > Island, in
                                    > > > the occupation column, there are some numbers written in above
                                    > the
                                    > > > occupation with a date next to it. On Jozsefs, it says 8-
                                    > 154974
                                    > > > 6/1/39. What does this mean?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Darrin
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