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Slovak Selkas

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  • djdarrin
    I m researching my family roots and need some help. My mom s dad Stephen Joseph Selka, born 10/5/1896. His father was a John Selka and his mom was Katherine
    Message 1 of 21 , Jul 23 10:09 AM
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      I'm researching my family roots and need some help. My mom's dad
      Stephen Joseph Selka, born 10/5/1896. His father was a John Selka
      and his mom was Katherine (I don't know her last). He and his
      brother, Joseph (born 7/2/1903), came to the U.S. in the early
      1900's. I'm trying to find out any information on their birth
      places and family prior to coming to the states. Can anyone point
      me in the right direction or good resources where I could look up
      his parents or even find out where he was born? Thanks!
    • John M.
      ... The Ellis Island Database shows a 16 year old Joseph Selka arriving in 1920 from Rybnik, Czechoslovakia. That s would be a good match for your Joseph.
      Message 2 of 21 , Jul 23 10:35 AM
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        At 05:09 PM 7/23/02 +0000, you wrote:
        >I'm researching my family roots and need some help. My mom's dad
        >Stephen Joseph Selka, born 10/5/1896. His father was a John Selka
        >and his mom was Katherine (I don't know her last). He and his
        >brother, Joseph (born 7/2/1903), came to the U.S. in the early
        >1900's. I'm trying to find out any information on their birth
        >places and family prior to coming to the states. Can anyone point
        >me in the right direction or good resources where I could look up
        >his parents or even find out where he was born? Thanks!

        The Ellis Island Database shows a 16 year old Joseph Selka arriving in 1920
        from Rybnik, Czechoslovakia. That's would be a good match for your
        Joseph. That year difference could be a slight error. There was no
        Stephen Selka listed.

        John
      • John M.
        ... I checked the manifest and this Joseph was traveling to Cleveland with his mother Marya to their husband and father Johan. This was probably not the
        Message 3 of 21 , Jul 23 11:05 AM
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          At 11:35 AM 7/23/02 -0600, you wrote:
          >At 05:09 PM 7/23/02 +0000, you wrote:
          >The Ellis Island Database shows a 16 year old Joseph Selka arriving in 1920
          >from Rybnik, Czechoslovakia. That's would be a good match for your
          >Joseph. That year difference could be a slight error. There was no
          >Stephen Selka listed.
          >
          >John

          I checked the manifest and this Joseph was traveling to Cleveland with his
          mother Marya to their husband and father Johan. This was probably not the
          correct Joseph because his mother's name was not Katherine. You might
          check the other Selkas in the EIDB to see if you might get a hint regarding
          the village they were from. I found a couple of Selka in the SK online
          phone directory in Nova Dedina and one in Levice.

          John
        • annavanek@netscape.net
          You can try finding naturalization papers, which I had success with getting places of birth, or military records. Some counties/states have on-line archives,
          Message 4 of 21 , Jul 23 12:20 PM
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            You can try finding naturalization papers, which I had success with getting places of birth, or military records.

            Some counties/states have on-line archives, so if you know where your grandfather lived, people may be able to point you in some of the on-line indexes.

            If your Steve was from the Cleveland Ohio area, let me know. I have a record that I will share with you privately. No relation, just access to some data.

            Regards,
            Anna
            "djdarrin" <dbartlett@...> wrote:

            >I'm researching my family roots and need some help.  My mom's dad
            >Stephen Joseph Selka, born 10/5/1896.  His father was a John Selka
            >and his mom was Katherine (I don't know her last).  He and his
            >brother, Joseph (born 7/2/1903), came to the U.S. in the early
            >1900's.  I'm trying to find out any information on their birth
            >places and family prior to coming to the states.  Can anyone point
            >me in the right direction or good resources where I could look up
            >his parents or even find out where he was born?  Thanks!
            >
            >


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          • Brenda Detrio
            Some tips please on where you found naturalization papers - State, County, INS or NARA? ... From: annavanek@netscape.net [SMTP:annavanek@netscape.net] Sent:
            Message 5 of 21 , Jul 23 1:23 PM
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              Some tips please on where you found naturalization papers - State, County,
              INS or NARA?

              -----Original Message-----
              From: annavanek@... [SMTP:annavanek@...]
              Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 3:21 PM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [S-R] Slovak Selkas

              You can try finding naturalization papers, which I had success with getting
              places of birth, or military records.

              Some counties/states have on-line archives, so if you know where your
              grandfather lived, people may be able to point you in some of the on-line
              indexes.

              If your Steve was from the Cleveland Ohio area, let me know. I have a
              record that I will share with you privately. No relation, just access to
              some data.

              Regards,
              Anna
              "djdarrin" <dbartlett@...> wrote:

              >I'm researching my family roots and need some help. My mom's dad
              >Stephen Joseph Selka, born 10/5/1896. His father was a John Selka
              >and his mom was Katherine (I don't know her last). He and his
              >brother, Joseph (born 7/2/1903), came to the U.S. in the early
              >1900's. I'm trying to find out any information on their birth
              >places and family prior to coming to the states. Can anyone point
              >me in the right direction or good resources where I could look up
              >his parents or even find out where he was born? Thanks!
              >
              >


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            • Caye Caswick
              Cleveland has some of the BEST searchable databases that I ve stumbled upon so far -- and the SSDI (Social Security Death Index) is also invaluable. Good
              Message 6 of 21 , Jul 23 1:24 PM
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                Cleveland has some of the BEST searchable databases that I've stumbled upon so far -- and the SSDI (Social Security Death Index) is also invaluable. Good luck. I learned my grandmother's mother's maiden name (and my grandfather's as well) from their marriage license which only cost two bucks from Cuyahoga County (uncertified). Their obituary (a/k/a Necrology) database (from the Cleveland Public Library databases) is riddled with typo-z, but if you are clever, you can really get a ton of information from that database -- including in some cases last known residence -- you can search it by church name, funeral home, or actually any text appearing anywhere in the record -- and you can narrow a search as well. There is also a marriage database -- be prepared, you just might discover that your relations had prior marriages they never told anyone about -- I found two in my family alone -- and my family is microscopic in size.
                Caye

                annavanek@... wrote: You can try finding naturalization papers, which I had success with getting places of birth, or military records.

                Some counties/states have on-line archives, so if you know where your grandfather lived, people may be able to point you in some of the on-line indexes.

                If your Steve was from the Cleveland Ohio area, let me know. I have a record that I will share with you privately. No relation, just access to some data.

                Regards,
                Anna
                "djdarrin" <dbartlett@...> wrote:

                >I'm researching my family roots and need some help. My mom's dad
                >Stephen Joseph Selka, born 10/5/1896. His father was a John Selka
                >and his mom was Katherine (I don't know her last). He and his
                >brother, Joseph (born 7/2/1903), came to the U.S. in the early
                >1900's. I'm trying to find out any information on their birth
                >places and family prior to coming to the states. Can anyone point
                >me in the right direction or good resources where I could look up
                >his parents or even find out where he was born? Thanks!
                >
                >


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              • annavanek@netscape.net
                I have used the county archives, in some cases they have on-line indexes which lowers the cost when mailing in the request. Do a search for the county with
                Message 7 of 21 , Jul 24 4:21 AM
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                  I have used the county archives, in some cases they have on-line indexes which lowers the cost when mailing in the request. Do a search for the county with archive and see if the area you are looking for comes up. In one case, but took a while, was the INS - there I didn't have much to start with except entry into the US and date. The NARA should also have these filmed, I believe, so you can try the FHL to see what they have also - you will need to know the county to get the right films.
                  Brenda Detrio <bdetrio@...-esa.gov> wrote:

                  >Some tips please on where you found naturalization papers - State, County,
                  >INS or NARA?
                  >
                  >-----Original Message-----
                  >From:   annavanek@... [SMTP:annavanek@...]
                  >Sent:   Tuesday, July 23, 2002 3:21 PM
                  >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject:    RE: [S-R] Slovak Selkas
                  >
                  >You can try finding naturalization papers, which I had success with getting
                  >places of birth, or military records.
                  >
                  >Some counties/states have on-line archives, so if you know where your
                  >grandfather lived, people may be able to point you in some of the on-line
                  >indexes.
                  >
                  >If your Steve was from the Cleveland Ohio area, let me know.  I have a
                  >record that I will share with you privately. No relation, just access to
                  >some data.
                  >
                  >Regards,
                  >Anna
                  >"djdarrin" <dbartlett@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >>I'm researching my family roots and need some help.  My mom's dad
                  >>Stephen Joseph Selka, born 10/5/1896.  His father was a John Selka
                  >>and his mom was Katherine (I don't know her last).  He and his
                  >>brother, Joseph (born 7/2/1903), came to the U.S. in the early
                  >>1900's.  I'm trying to find out any information on their birth
                  >>places and family prior to coming to the states.  Can anyone point
                  >>me in the right direction or good resources where I could look up
                  >>his parents or even find out where he was born?  Thanks!
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >__________________________________________________________________
                  >Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas.
                  >Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape!
                  >http://shopnow.netscape.com/
                  >
                  >Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at
                  >http://webmail.netscape.com/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >


                  __________________________________________________________________
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                • Konekta
                  I already do not know, who originally was interested in Selkas, but , please, consider this: If your Selka really was a Selka, then, if he emigrated before
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jul 24 8:02 AM
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                    I already do not know, who originally was interested in Selkas, but , please, consider this:
                    If your Selka really was a Selka, then, if he emigrated before 1919, he may also be listed in Ellis Island and somewhere else too, under the name/spelling Szelka. Everyone (99%) before that time, had a hungarian spelling.
                    Regards,
                    Vladimir Bohinc
                    www.konekta.sk

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: annavanek@...
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 1:21 PM
                    Subject: RE: [S-R] Slovak Selkas


                    I have used the county archives, in some cases they have on-line indexes which lowers the cost when mailing in the request. Do a search for the county with archive and see if the area you are looking for comes up. In one case, but took a while, was the INS - there I didn't have much to start with except entry into the US and date. The NARA should also have these filmed, I believe, so you can try the FHL to see what they have also - you will need to know the county to get the right films.
                    Brenda Detrio <bdetrio@...-esa.gov> wrote:

                    >Some tips please on where you found naturalization papers - State, County,
                    >INS or NARA?
                    >
                    >-----Original Message-----
                    >From: annavanek@... [SMTP:annavanek@...]
                    >Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 3:21 PM
                    >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: RE: [S-R] Slovak Selkas
                    >
                    >You can try finding naturalization papers, which I had success with getting
                    >places of birth, or military records.
                    >
                    >Some counties/states have on-line archives, so if you know where your
                    >grandfather lived, people may be able to point you in some of the on-line
                    >indexes.
                    >
                    >If your Steve was from the Cleveland Ohio area, let me know. I have a
                    >record that I will share with you privately. No relation, just access to
                    >some data.
                    >
                    >Regards,
                    >Anna
                    >"djdarrin" <dbartlett@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >>I'm researching my family roots and need some help. My mom's dad
                    >>Stephen Joseph Selka, born 10/5/1896. His father was a John Selka
                    >>and his mom was Katherine (I don't know her last). He and his
                    >>brother, Joseph (born 7/2/1903), came to the U.S. in the early
                    >>1900's. I'm trying to find out any information on their birth
                    >>places and family prior to coming to the states. Can anyone point
                    >>me in the right direction or good resources where I could look up
                    >>his parents or even find out where he was born? Thanks!
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >__________________________________________________________________
                    >Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas.
                    >Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape!
                    >http://shopnow.netscape.com/
                    >
                    >Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at
                    >http://webmail.netscape.com/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >


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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • John M.
                    ... Taking Vladimir s advice, I checked Szelkas in the EIDB and found an Istavan Szelka going to his father John in Lakewood/Cleveland, OH in 1912. His age
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jul 24 11:05 PM
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                      At 12:05 PM 7/23/02 -0600, you wrote:
                      >At 11:35 AM 7/23/02 -0600, you wrote:
                      > >At 05:09 PM 7/23/02 +0000, you wrote:
                      > >The Ellis Island Database shows a 16 year old Joseph Selka arriving in 1920
                      > >from Rybnik, Czechoslovakia. That's would be a good match for your
                      > >Joseph. That year difference could be a slight error. There was no
                      > >Stephen Selka listed.
                      > >
                      > >John
                      >
                      >I checked the manifest and this Joseph was traveling to Cleveland with his
                      >mother Marya to their husband and father Johan. This was probably not the
                      >correct Joseph because his mother's name was not Katherine. You might
                      >check the other Selkas in the EIDB to see if you might get a hint regarding
                      >the village they were from. I found a couple of Selka in the SK online
                      >phone directory in Nova Dedina and one in Levice.
                      >
                      >John

                      Taking Vladimir's advice, I checked Szelkas in the EIDB and found an
                      Istavan Szelka going to his father John in Lakewood/Cleveland, OH in
                      1912. His age was 16 so that would fit the 1896 birth date. I also found
                      a Jozsef Szelka,8, travelling with his mother Janosne(sp) Szelza to a John
                      Szelka in Cleveland in 1910. Both Istvan and Jozef were from "Garannyfalu
                      (now known as Tekovska Nova Ves, which was known as Garamujfalu 1863-1913),
                      Hungary." Everything seems to match except the mother's given names in
                      both cases. Marya Selza and Janosne(sp) Szelza were the two
                      mothers. Neither are Katherine. The father's name was John in both
                      cases. Janosne(sp) lists her sister Kendelene(sp) Szolf(sp) as her
                      relative in Garamujfalu.

                      >I found a couple of Selka in the SK online phone directory in Nova Dedina
                      >and one in Levice.

                      The village of Tekovska Nova Ves (which is just to the southwest of Nova
                      Dedina) appears to be the birth place of your grandfather Steven. If you
                      use www.expedia.com and do a search for Tekovska Nova Ves, it will show you
                      its location. It will take a bit more effort to separate the two
                      families. Good luck.

                      John
                    • djdarrin
                      Thanks for all the help! My mother and I are digging into this and trying to find the known birthday of Josef (Jozsef?) to see which could be right. As we
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jul 25 6:04 AM
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                        Thanks for all the help! My mother and I are digging into this and
                        trying to find the known birthday of Josef (Jozsef?) to see which
                        could be right. As we all know, our pasts are sometimes different
                        than we were told and having two different mothers for the children
                        is not as far fetched as we use to believe!

                        Darrin

                        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "John M." <jmatsko4@c...> wrote:
                        > At 12:05 PM 7/23/02 -0600, you wrote:
                        > >At 11:35 AM 7/23/02 -0600, you wrote:
                        > > >At 05:09 PM 7/23/02 +0000, you wrote:
                        > > >The Ellis Island Database shows a 16 year old Joseph Selka
                        arriving in 1920
                        > > >from Rybnik, Czechoslovakia. That's would be a good match for
                        your
                        > > >Joseph. That year difference could be a slight error. There
                        was no
                        > > >Stephen Selka listed.
                        > > >
                        > > >John
                        > >
                        > >I checked the manifest and this Joseph was traveling to Cleveland
                        with his
                        > >mother Marya to their husband and father Johan. This was
                        probably not the
                        > >correct Joseph because his mother's name was not Katherine. You
                        might
                        > >check the other Selkas in the EIDB to see if you might get a hint
                        regarding
                        > >the village they were from. I found a couple of Selka in the SK
                        online
                        > >phone directory in Nova Dedina and one in Levice.
                        > >
                        > >John
                        >
                        > Taking Vladimir's advice, I checked Szelkas in the EIDB and found
                        an
                        > Istavan Szelka going to his father John in Lakewood/Cleveland, OH
                        in
                        > 1912. His age was 16 so that would fit the 1896 birth date. I
                        also found
                        > a Jozsef Szelka,8, travelling with his mother Janosne(sp) Szelza
                        to a John
                        > Szelka in Cleveland in 1910. Both Istvan and Jozef were
                        from "Garannyfalu
                        > (now known as Tekovska Nova Ves, which was known as Garamujfalu
                        1863-1913),
                        > Hungary." Everything seems to match except the mother's given
                        names in
                        > both cases. Marya Selza and Janosne(sp) Szelza were the two
                        > mothers. Neither are Katherine. The father's name was John in
                        both
                        > cases. Janosne(sp) lists her sister Kendelene(sp) Szolf(sp) as
                        her
                        > relative in Garamujfalu.
                        >
                        > >I found a couple of Selka in the SK online phone directory in
                        Nova Dedina
                        > >and one in Levice.
                        >
                        > The village of Tekovska Nova Ves (which is just to the southwest
                        of Nova
                        > Dedina) appears to be the birth place of your grandfather Steven.
                        If you
                        > use www.expedia.com and do a search for Tekovska Nova Ves, it will
                        show you
                        > its location. It will take a bit more effort to separate the two
                        > families. Good luck.
                        >
                        > John
                      • Konekta
                        Janosne Szelka means wife of Janos Szelka, so her given name can be Katalin or whatever else. Regards, Vladimir ... From: John M. To:
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jul 25 10:42 AM
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                          Janosne Szelka means wife of Janos Szelka, so her given name can be Katalin or whatever else.
                          Regards, Vladimir
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: John M.
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 8:05 AM
                          Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Selkas


                          At 12:05 PM 7/23/02 -0600, you wrote:
                          >At 11:35 AM 7/23/02 -0600, you wrote:
                          > >At 05:09 PM 7/23/02 +0000, you wrote:
                          > >The Ellis Island Database shows a 16 year old Joseph Selka arriving in 1920
                          > >from Rybnik, Czechoslovakia. That's would be a good match for your
                          > >Joseph. That year difference could be a slight error. There was no
                          > >Stephen Selka listed.
                          > >
                          > >John
                          >
                          >I checked the manifest and this Joseph was traveling to Cleveland with his
                          >mother Marya to their husband and father Johan. This was probably not the
                          >correct Joseph because his mother's name was not Katherine. You might
                          >check the other Selkas in the EIDB to see if you might get a hint regarding
                          >the village they were from. I found a couple of Selka in the SK online
                          >phone directory in Nova Dedina and one in Levice.
                          >
                          >John

                          Taking Vladimir's advice, I checked Szelkas in the EIDB and found an
                          Istavan Szelka going to his father John in Lakewood/Cleveland, OH in
                          1912. His age was 16 so that would fit the 1896 birth date. I also found
                          a Jozsef Szelka,8, travelling with his mother Janosne(sp) Szelza to a John
                          Szelka in Cleveland in 1910. Both Istvan and Jozef were from "Garannyfalu
                          (now known as Tekovska Nova Ves, which was known as Garamujfalu 1863-1913),
                          Hungary." Everything seems to match except the mother's given names in
                          both cases. Marya Selza and Janosne(sp) Szelza were the two
                          mothers. Neither are Katherine. The father's name was John in both
                          cases. Janosne(sp) lists her sister Kendelene(sp) Szolf(sp) as her
                          relative in Garamujfalu.

                          >I found a couple of Selka in the SK online phone directory in Nova Dedina
                          >and one in Levice.

                          The village of Tekovska Nova Ves (which is just to the southwest of Nova
                          Dedina) appears to be the birth place of your grandfather Steven. If you
                          use www.expedia.com and do a search for Tekovska Nova Ves, it will show you
                          its location. It will take a bit more effort to separate the two
                          families. Good luck.

                          John




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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • John M.
                          AT 07:42 PM 7/25/02 +0200, YOU WROTE: Janosne Szelka means wife of Janos Szelka, so her given name can be Katalin or whatever else. regards, Vladimir Vladimir,
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jul 25 10:11 PM
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                            AT 07:42 PM 7/25/02 +0200, YOU WROTE:
                            Janosne Szelka means wife of Janos Szelka, so her given name can be Katalin
                            or whatever else.
                            regards, Vladimir

                            Vladimir, it makes sense but have you found this to be a common way for a
                            woman to refer to herself. I don't recall any other case on the manifests
                            I've looked at that the woman's given name wasn't used. In fact, it seems
                            they very seldom used the ova ending. I couldn't find my mother and
                            sister's entry in a list of about 150 women with the same surname because
                            they were the only two women with that name in the EIDB that used the "ova"
                            ending.

                            John
                          • Konekta
                            Dear John, This was a very frequent way of writing the wifes name and you can find it today as well. It is like Mrs. Janos Szelka So, with EIDB you must
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jul 26 3:03 AM
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                              Dear John,
                              This was a very frequent way of writing the wifes "name" and you can find it today as well.
                              It is like " Mrs. Janos Szelka"
                              So, with EIDB you must also take this into account. The name of her husband then ends with "ne".
                              The only thing, that might help in some cases is the name of a relative (mother, fater or siblings), that she left behind.
                              If the entry was late, like in 1920 ties or so, then the Czech spelling would be there and not hungarian, so in such case, she would be Selkova something.
                              Therefore, from the spelling point of view, it does matter very much, when and from which part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire or Czechoslovakia somebody came.
                              If you look more carefully, you will find more such hungarian namings of the wives in EIDB.
                              Try any surname.
                              The Czech ending of "ova" does not neccessarily mean, the woman was married. All female surnames under Czech rule and now, have such ending.
                              ======
                              I will be on my deserved vacation for three weeks, starting this Sunday. Will be able to answer questions when I return.
                              Best to all members,
                              Vladimir

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: John M.
                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 7:11 AM
                              Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Selkas


                              AT 07:42 PM 7/25/02 +0200, YOU WROTE:
                              Janosne Szelka means wife of Janos Szelka, so her given name can be Katalin
                              or whatever else.
                              regards, Vladimir

                              Vladimir, it makes sense but have you found this to be a common way for a
                              woman to refer to herself. I don't recall any other case on the manifests
                              I've looked at that the woman's given name wasn't used. In fact, it seems
                              they very seldom used the ova ending. I couldn't find my mother and
                              sister's entry in a list of about 150 women with the same surname because
                              they were the only two women with that name in the EIDB that used the "ova"
                              ending.

                              John


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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • John M.
                              ... I agree that it is common method for addressing a married woman in normal social situations but it would seem the immigration service would want the
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jul 26 11:39 AM
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                                At 12:03 PM 7/26/02 +0200, you wrote:
                                >Dear John,
                                >This was a very frequent way of writing the wifes "name" and you can find
                                >it today as well.
                                >It is like " Mrs. Janos Szelka". So, with EIDB you must also take this
                                >into account. The name of her husband then ends with "ne". The only
                                >thing, that might help in some cases is the name of a relative (mother,
                                >fater or siblings), that she left behind.

                                I agree that it is common method for addressing a married woman in normal
                                social situations but it would seem the immigration service would want the
                                woman's given name.

                                >If the entry was late, like in 1920 ties or so, then the Czech spelling
                                >would be there and not hungarian, so in such case, she would be Selkova
                                >something. Therefore, from the spelling point of view, it does matter
                                >very much, when and from which part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire or
                                >Czechoslovakia somebody came.

                                You are right in the case of my mother and six year old sister. In 1920,
                                they had the feminine "ova" ending on their surname. The manifests for an
                                aunt in 1922 and another village woman in 1923 did not have the feminine
                                "ova" ending on their surnames.

                                >If you look more carefully, you will find more such hungarian namings of
                                >the wives in EIDB.
                                >Try any surname. The Czech ending of "ova" does not neccessarily mean,
                                >the woman was married. All female surnames under Czech rule and now, have
                                >such ending.

                                I wonder if anyone else on this list has seen a manifest entry showing the
                                "ne" ending on the husband's given name being used rather than the woman's
                                given name.

                                >I will be on my deserved vacation for three weeks, starting this Sunday.
                                >Will be able to answer questions when I return.

                                Thanks for your contributions and have a great holiday.

                                John
                              • Maureen
                                I have seen it many, many times. Maureen ... From: John M. To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jul 26 11:48 AM
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                                  I have seen it many, many times.

                                  Maureen
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: John M.
                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 2:39 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Selkas


                                  At 12:03 PM 7/26/02 +0200, you wrote:
                                  >Dear John,
                                  >This was a very frequent way of writing the wifes "name" and you can find
                                  >it today as well.
                                  >It is like " Mrs. Janos Szelka". So, with EIDB you must also take this
                                  >into account. The name of her husband then ends with "ne". The only
                                  >thing, that might help in some cases is the name of a relative (mother,
                                  >fater or siblings), that she left behind.

                                  I agree that it is common method for addressing a married woman in normal
                                  social situations but it would seem the immigration service would want the
                                  woman's given name.

                                  >If the entry was late, like in 1920 ties or so, then the Czech spelling
                                  >would be there and not hungarian, so in such case, she would be Selkova
                                  >something. Therefore, from the spelling point of view, it does matter
                                  >very much, when and from which part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire or
                                  >Czechoslovakia somebody came.

                                  You are right in the case of my mother and six year old sister. In 1920,
                                  they had the feminine "ova" ending on their surname. The manifests for an
                                  aunt in 1922 and another village woman in 1923 did not have the feminine
                                  "ova" ending on their surnames.

                                  >If you look more carefully, you will find more such hungarian namings of
                                  >the wives in EIDB.
                                  >Try any surname. The Czech ending of "ova" does not neccessarily mean,
                                  >the woman was married. All female surnames under Czech rule and now, have
                                  >such ending.

                                  I wonder if anyone else on this list has seen a manifest entry showing the
                                  "ne" ending on the husband's given name being used rather than the woman's
                                  given name.

                                  >I will be on my deserved vacation for three weeks, starting this Sunday.
                                  >Will be able to answer questions when I return.

                                  Thanks for your contributions and have a great holiday.

                                  John





                                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • John M.
                                  ... Thanks Maureen. The many, many is intriguing. Any particular area of Upper Hungary you were searching? Most of my searches were for relatives and
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Jul 26 2:14 PM
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                                    At 02:48 PM 7/26/02 -0400, you wrote:
                                    >I have seen it many, many times.
                                    >
                                    >Maureen

                                    Thanks Maureen. The "many, many" is intriguing. Any particular area of
                                    Upper Hungary you were searching? Most of my searches were for relatives
                                    and surnames from what is now NE Slovakia and I don't recall seeing any
                                    manifest entries that used the husband's given name in place of the woman's
                                    given name. I have seen what I thought were some feminized masculine given
                                    names (i.e. Josefa, Johanna, Wladislawa) but I don't believe these are the
                                    same as saying Mrs. Josef Surname, etc.

                                    John
                                  • Maureen
                                    John, I suspect they are on the manifest pages of the family members I have traced -- they are certainly not all members of my family. Sometimes I have seen
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Jul 26 2:23 PM
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                                      John,

                                      I suspect they are on the manifest pages of the family members I have traced -- they are certainly not all members of my family. Sometimes I have seen them as the name of the relative -- mother or sister or wife -- in native village. I have all of my family members manifests (those I have thus far found!) saved on a CD. I'll take a look tonight and let you know how many are in there.

                                      Maureen
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: John M.
                                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 5:14 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Selkas


                                      At 02:48 PM 7/26/02 -0400, you wrote:
                                      >I have seen it many, many times.
                                      >
                                      >Maureen

                                      Thanks Maureen. The "many, many" is intriguing. Any particular area of
                                      Upper Hungary you were searching? Most of my searches were for relatives
                                      and surnames from what is now NE Slovakia and I don't recall seeing any
                                      manifest entries that used the husband's given name in place of the woman's
                                      given name. I have seen what I thought were some feminized masculine given
                                      names (i.e. Josefa, Johanna, Wladislawa) but I don't believe these are the
                                      same as saying Mrs. Josef Surname, etc.

                                      John





                                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • djdarrin
                                      I notice in some of the records I m pulling up from Ellis Island, in the occupation column, there are some numbers written in above the occupation with a date
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Jul 30 6:46 AM
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                                        I notice in some of the records I'm pulling up from Ellis Island, in
                                        the occupation column, there are some numbers written in above the
                                        occupation with a date next to it. On Jozsefs, it says 8-154974
                                        6/1/39. What does this mean?

                                        Darrin

                                        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "Maureen" <maureen@d...> wrote:
                                        > John,
                                        >
                                        > I suspect they are on the manifest pages of the family members I
                                        have traced -- they are certainly not all members of my family.
                                        Sometimes I have seen them as the name of the relative -- mother or
                                        sister or wife -- in native village. I have all of my family members
                                        manifests (those I have thus far found!) saved on a CD. I'll take a
                                        look tonight and let you know how many are in there.
                                        >
                                        > Maureen
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: John M.
                                        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@y...
                                        > Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 5:14 PM
                                        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Selkas
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > At 02:48 PM 7/26/02 -0400, you wrote:
                                        > >I have seen it many, many times.
                                        > >
                                        > >Maureen
                                        >
                                        > Thanks Maureen. The "many, many" is intriguing. Any particular
                                        area of
                                        > Upper Hungary you were searching? Most of my searches were for
                                        relatives
                                        > and surnames from what is now NE Slovakia and I don't recall
                                        seeing any
                                        > manifest entries that used the husband's given name in place of
                                        the woman's
                                        > given name. I have seen what I thought were some feminized
                                        masculine given
                                        > names (i.e. Josefa, Johanna, Wladislawa) but I don't believe
                                        these are the
                                        > same as saying Mrs. Josef Surname, etc.
                                        >
                                        > John
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • tskvarenina
                                        I think it has something to do with the citizenship process. To apply for citizenship, they needed a certificate of arrival from the port of arrival. The
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Jul 30 7:14 AM
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                                          I think it has something to do with the citizenship process. To apply
                                          for citizenship, they needed a certificate of arrival from the port of
                                          arrival. The following page has an explanation and examples of the
                                          various stages of citizenship:

                                          http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~skvarenina/citizenship/becomi
                                          ng_a_citizen.htm

                                          These papers were for my grandfather, but his Ellis Island record
                                          wasn't marked. His cousin that he traveled with was naturalized
                                          several years later and did have markings on his line. So I am
                                          assuming that the marking began between 1920 and 1925.

                                          Tim

                                          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "djdarrin" <dbartlett@m...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I notice in some of the records I'm pulling up from Ellis Island, in
                                          > the occupation column, there are some numbers written in above the
                                          > occupation with a date next to it. On Jozsefs, it says 8-154974
                                          > 6/1/39. What does this mean?
                                          >
                                          > Darrin
                                        • djdarrin
                                          THanks, Tim. But the mystery on my end is the extreme difference in time between when Joszef came over (1910) and the markings (1939). It would be strange if
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Jul 31 4:43 AM
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                                            THanks, Tim. But the mystery on my end is the extreme difference in
                                            time between when Joszef came over (1910) and the markings (1939).
                                            It would be strange if he waited 19 years to be naturalized, since I
                                            know his brother was in WWI as a U.S. citizen in 1917.



                                            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "tskvarenina" <tskvarenina@y...> wrote:
                                            > I think it has something to do with the citizenship process. To
                                            apply
                                            > for citizenship, they needed a certificate of arrival from the
                                            port of
                                            > arrival. The following page has an explanation and examples of
                                            the
                                            > various stages of citizenship:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~skvarenina/citizenship/becom
                                            i
                                            > ng_a_citizen.htm
                                            >
                                            > These papers were for my grandfather, but his Ellis Island record
                                            > wasn't marked. His cousin that he traveled with was naturalized
                                            > several years later and did have markings on his line. So I am
                                            > assuming that the marking began between 1920 and 1925.
                                            >
                                            > Tim
                                            >
                                            > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "djdarrin" <dbartlett@m...> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > I notice in some of the records I'm pulling up from Ellis
                                            Island, in
                                            > > the occupation column, there are some numbers written in above
                                            the
                                            > > occupation with a date next to it. On Jozsefs, it says 8-
                                            154974
                                            > > 6/1/39. What does this mean?
                                            > >
                                            > > Darrin
                                          • frankly1us
                                            ... Some emigrants never became American citizens even after 20 years residence. WW I began in August 1914. The U.S. didn t declare war until April 1917. There
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Aug 1, 2002
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                                              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "djdarrin" <dbartlett@m...> wrote:
                                              > THanks, Tim. But the mystery on my end is the extreme difference in
                                              > time between when Joszef came over (1910) and the markings (1939).
                                              > It would be strange if he waited 19 years to be naturalized, since I
                                              > know his brother was in WWI as a U.S. citizen in 1917.

                                              Some emigrants never became American citizens even after 20 years residence.

                                              WW I began in August 1914.
                                              The U.S. didn't declare war until April 1917.
                                              There was an Alien Registration Act.
                                              As a result some emigrants hurried to become citizens.

                                              WW II began in September 1939.
                                              The U.S. entered the war in December 1941.
                                              However, many emigrants rushed to become American citizens
                                              1939-1941 even after 40+ years residence in the U.S.

                                              Some ship manifests list emigrants who were already U.S. citizens separately from those that were entering the country for the first time.
                                              The number, place, and date of their naturalization were listed at top of or at right side of surname on the ship manifest.

                                              http://www.cimorelli.com/pie/faq/emigfaqi.htm

                                              >
                                              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "tskvarenina" <tskvarenina@y...> wrote:
                                              > > I think it has something to do with the citizenship process. To
                                              > apply
                                              > > for citizenship, they needed a certificate of arrival from the
                                              > port of
                                              > > arrival. The following page has an explanation and examples of
                                              > the
                                              > > various stages of citizenship:
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~skvarenina/citizenship/becom
                                              > i
                                              > > ng_a_citizen.htm
                                              > >
                                              > > These papers were for my grandfather, but his Ellis Island record
                                              > > wasn't marked. His cousin that he traveled with was naturalized
                                              > > several years later and did have markings on his line. So I am
                                              > > assuming that the marking began between 1920 and 1925.
                                              > >
                                              > > Tim
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "djdarrin" <dbartlett@m...> wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I notice in some of the records I'm pulling up from Ellis
                                              > Island, in
                                              > > > the occupation column, there are some numbers written in above
                                              > the
                                              > > > occupation with a date next to it. On Jozsefs, it says 8-
                                              > 154974
                                              > > > 6/1/39. What does this mean?
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Darrin
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