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Re: [S-R] Re: help

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  • Andrea Vangor
    I think this is very true, and worth remembering. On the Slovak nationalist side, people are reluctant to admit that any Slovak families were among the
    Message 1 of 3 , Apr 21, 2002
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      I think this is very true, and worth remembering. On the Slovak nationalist
      side, people are reluctant to admit that any Slovak families were among the
      aristocratic oppressors of the Slovak peasantry. On the Magyar side, people
      are reluctant to admit that any Slovaks were included in the nobility at
      all. And to this day, some Hungarians get really steamed up when confronted
      with the history of their oppressive rule in Slovakia, especially after 1867
      when they had a free hand.

      I wonder if the Keczer family, who left many place names around the Vangor
      neighborhood, were originally Slovak or Hungarian. Kezcer Lipocz, Keczer
      Kostolyan, Keczer something else.



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "frankly1us" <frankur@...>
      To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 6:26 AM
      Subject: [S-R] Re: help


      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., amiak@a... wrote:
      > > Any nobility from Slovakia (Upper-Hungary) would have had to be
      > > Hungarian.
      > > And any nobility from C^echy' would have had to be Austrian (German)
      >
      > I have to disagree. On the surface this appears correct, as the
      > Hungarians were in Slovakia for 900 years. There are many histories,
      > however, which refer to Slovaks in the nobility.
      >
      > With all of the political pressure to assimilate along with the
      > centuries of time involved it is easy to claim all nobility was
      > Hungarian. Some who hunt may well find Slovaks hidden in there. Often
      > they were mixed in the lower nobility, the Lords with the manor houses,
      > rather than the powerful Barons. Remember that the king did enlist the
      > help of the nobility in his power struggles against the barons.
      >
      > Bottom line? It is such a mish mash of unwritten history it may be
      > impossible to sort out with any certainty not preordained by political
      > motive or ethnic pride. That is not to simply write off Slovak
      > nobility as non-existant.

      In that sense I suppose you are correct.
      Have never found a Magyar who would admit to this fact,
      especially not at any Hungarian genealogy website on WWW.


      For example, Lájos (Louis) Kossuth was a magyarized Slovak.
      He was born in Monok, Zemplén megye, Hungary in 1802.
      His family belonged to one of Hungary's poorest noble families.
      His parents were Lutherans and he later graduated from a Calvinist
      law school.






      -- Original Message -----
      > From: frankly1us <frankur@a...>
      > Date: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:05 am
      > Subject: [S-R] Re: help
      >
      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., connie ruley <connie_ruley@y...> wrote:
      > > > hi my name is connie i'm trying to fine a way to see
      > > > if my family has a family crest. my grandfather came
      > > > from check. if any one could help i would be very
      > > > greatful. the last name is kazimer, but when he live
      > > > over sea it was spelled kaszimir. thank you connie
      > >
      > >
      > > Any nobility from Slovakia (Upper-Hungary) would have had to be
      > > Hungarian.
      > > And any nobility from C^echy' would have had to be Austrian (German)
      > >
      > > There is Iván Nagy's alphabetical listing of the noble families
      > > of Hungary
      > > (Magyarország családai czimerekkel és nemzedékrendi
      > > táblákkal) 13 vols. Pest 1857-65.
      > > Don't know which library might have these reference volumes ?
      > >
      > >
      > > http://www.bartaloslink.com/aspectsofnobility.htm
      > >
      > > http://lists5.rootsweb.com/index/intl/HUN/
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > >
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