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Re: [S-R] Surname help

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  • John
    ... SK phone directory: http://www.zoznamst.sk/sk/index.html I found 9 listings for Rindos^ (pronounced Rindosh) and Rindos^ova (feminine form) in Plavnica, 2
    Message 1 of 22 , Feb 22, 2002
      At 02:25 PM 2/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
      >RINDOS

      SK phone directory: http://www.zoznamst.sk/sk/index.html

      I found 9 listings for Rindos^ (pronounced Rindosh) and Rindos^ova
      (feminine form) in Plavnica, 2 in Stara Lubovna, 1 in Orlov, 8 in
      Kosice, and 4 in Poprod.

      Do you know if they were Greek or Roman Catholic. Most of the villages and
      towns are in Eastern Slovakia so it might be a Rusyn name. Rusyns are
      normally Greek Catholic or Russian Orthodox.

      John
    • frankly1us
      ... ca and in conversations with slovaks they are unfamiliar with the name and s= ay that they do not think that it is a slovak surname.Note Plavnica
      Message 2 of 22 , Feb 23, 2002
        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., Hrtswhspr@a... wrote:
        > could you tell us whether the RINDOS name is ethnically slovak or some
        > minority group because the only town where this name was known was plavni=
        ca
        > and in conversations with slovaks they are unfamiliar with the name and s=
        ay
        > that they do not think that it is a slovak surname.


        Note Plavnica (Sk) Palonca (H) and Stará L'ubovn^a (Sk) O'lubló (H)
        reference to Slovakia below :

        Interesting region.
        Germans, Slovaks, Rusyns, Croatians, Hungarians, and Poles.
        Don't know which group settled here first in 12th, 14th, and 16th
        centuries.

        Not all people in East Central Europe who later spoke German
        owed their heritage to German settlers. Many were descendants of
        Germanized Slavs and in some cases Magyars whose ancestors had
        intermarried with neighbors of Germanic origin.

        Among the earliest German colonies were those begun in the late
        12th c in Transylvania and in the mountainous area of Spis^/Zips/
        Szepes county in northern Hungary near the towns of Levoc^a (Sv)/
        Leutschau (G) and Kez^marok (Sv)/Késmárk (H)/Käsmarkt(G)
        The Spis^ enclave was expanded through special privileges granted in
        1224 and 1271.
        It was at this time that the "Saxons" (actually not from Saxony but
        from the Rhineland) came in large numbers.

        It was during the 13th c that organized efforts were undertaken to
        settle Carpathian Rus' with East Slavic farmers and shepherds from
        neighboring Galicija (Poland)
        Early in 15th c the 16 towns in the northen Spis^ region of central
        Slovakia (including Stará L'ubovn^a and L'ubica)- near to but not
        including the royal Saxon towns of Käsmark and Leutschau - were sold to Pol=
        and, under whose rule they remained 1412-1772.

        Maly' Sulín (Slovak) Szulin (H) was established in 1600.
        It was part of the property of his lordship Plavec^ * and his own Croatian =
        nobility, who had established the neighboring village of Vel'ké Sulín (S) at=
        the end of the 16th century.


        Towns of Plavnica and Plavec^ were also part of the property of
        the Croatian nobility.
        * Plavnica, Plavec^ and nearby Plavec^ castle (Plavec^sky' hrad)


        (Rindos^ would not be a Croatian surname either)
        Of the 40 surnames Rindos, who emigrated to U.S. 1892-1924, nearly every em=
        igrant was from Plavnica (2 from Stará L'ubovn^a) and 37 bore Hungarian or S=
        lovak first names.
        Any names or dates ?
      • jwm469@wireweb.net
        I am asking for help in deciding wher to try to look next. My great-grandmother Maria Bratko married my great- grandfather Andrew Molchany (Molcsany/Molcanyi)
        Message 3 of 22 , Aug 8, 2004
          I am asking for help in deciding wher to try to look next. My great-grandmother Maria Bratko married my great-
          grandfather Andrew Molchany (Molcsany/Molcanyi) around 1891shortly before he left for America. Their first son
          Andrew was born in Dec 1892 in Jurske, Slovakia. (I have the Molcanyi family traced back to about 1800 in Jurske.)

          I have been trying for 10+ years to find the village that my great-grandmother may have been from. There is no
          information in the Ellis Island records on-line. In fact the link is wrong and it took me weeks to find the correct record
          (which I have misplaced/mis-filed). I have been told that there were Bratko's in Bratislava. But I think that is too large a
          city to try to find her.

          Does anyone have any ideas where I might look? My gut tells me that she might have been from a village to the east.
          There are more Molcanyis to the east of Jurske. A Nicholas Molchany, a Greek Catholic priest was from 'Bajer Vagas,
          Saros". I think the Molchanys migrated west from that area, maybe even Svidnik and surrounds. I was once told the
          names that end in 'ko' are most likely Rusyn. That makes me want to look east. Another cousin said that his relatives
          said the Molcanyi name is Rusyn. My paternal grandmother said that the family was part Russian - but prbably meant
          Rusyn.

          I'm at a loss and any help would be appreciated.

          Thanks,

          Jerry
        • Bill Tarkulich
          Have you considered looking at the other BRATKO manifest entries to see from where these folk came? Have you used the online phonebook, with an areacode of
          Message 4 of 22 , Aug 8, 2004
            Have you considered looking at the other BRATKO manifest entries to see from
            where these folk came?

            Have you used the online phonebook, with an areacode of zero?
            http://www.zoznamst.sk/eng/plsql/ccat_002en$.startup
            Have you looked up both surnames here and try to correlate to a village in
            which both surnames may be present?

            If you are looking for Maria Molcsany June 17, 1895 manifest,
            Go here http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/EIDB/mm.htm?back=index.htm
            Enter Series M237, Roll 643, Frame 290. You will find her on that page.
            Traveled with 2 year old child ANDRO.

            Have you used 1-step
            http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/EIDB/ellisshort.html

            Bajer Vagas is present-day BAJEROVCE, but priests get assigned to many
            distant villages.


            ______________
            Bill Tarkulich




            -----Original Message-----
            From: jwm469@... [mailto:jwm469@...]
            Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 7:41 PM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [S-R] Surname help


            I am asking for help in deciding wher to try to look next. My
            great-grandmother Maria Bratko married my great- grandfather Andrew Molchany
            (Molcsany/Molcanyi) around 1891shortly before he left for America. Their
            first son
            Andrew was born in Dec 1892 in Jurske, Slovakia. (I have the Molcanyi
            family traced back to about 1800 in Jurske.)

            I have been trying for 10+ years to find the village that my
            great-grandmother may have been from. There is no
            information in the Ellis Island records on-line. In fact the link is wrong
            and it took me weeks to find the correct record
            (which I have misplaced/mis-filed). I have been told that there were
            Bratko's in Bratislava. But I think that is too large a
            city to try to find her.

            Does anyone have any ideas where I might look? My gut tells me that she
            might have been from a village to the east.
            There are more Molcanyis to the east of Jurske. A Nicholas Molchany, a
            Greek Catholic priest was from 'Bajer Vagas,
            Saros". I think the Molchanys migrated west from that area, maybe even
            Svidnik and surrounds. I was once told the
            names that end in 'ko' are most likely Rusyn. That makes me want to look
            east. Another cousin said that his relatives
            said the Molcanyi name is Rusyn. My paternal grandmother said that the
            family was part Russian - but prbably meant
            Rusyn.

            I'm at a loss and any help would be appreciated.

            Thanks,

            Jerry





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          • John M,
            ... I found 57 Bratko listings in the SK online phone directory. From just a cursory scan of the listings, there appear to be Bratkos in many areas of
            Message 5 of 22 , Aug 8, 2004
              >At 06:40 PM 8/8/2004 -0500, you wrote:
              >
              >Does anyone have any ideas where I might look? My gut tells me that she
              >might have been from a village to the east. There are more Molcanyis to
              >the east of Jurske. A Nicholas Molchany, a Greek Catholic priest was from
              >'Bajer Vagas,

              I found 57 Bratko listings in the SK online phone directory. From just a
              cursory scan of the listings, there appear to be Bratkos in many areas of
              Slovakia including Eastern Slovakia. Go
              to http://www.zoznamst.sk/eng/index.html and place a "0" (without the
              quotes) in the area telephone code window. Search for Bratko and check to
              see if any are located in the villages near Jurske. Instead of using the
              "0", you might try placing at least the first three letters of the nearby
              villages in the town window to see if you can find a Bratko nearby. I
              tried Jurske and a couple of towns nearby but did not find any.

              John M.
            • Bohdana Badzio
              Hello Jerry, have you located the marriage record for Maria Bratko and Andrew Molchany, for example on an FHL microfilm? It should have information on the
              Message 6 of 22 , Aug 9, 2004
                Hello Jerry,

                have you located the marriage record for Maria Bratko and Andrew
                Molchany, for example on an FHL microfilm? It should have information
                on the bride's home village, among other. If the Molchanys had lived
                in Jurske since 1800 and Maria and Andrew's son was born there, I'd
                say Jurske would be the first place to look for a marriage record.
                For Jurske, FHL has Roman Catholic church books for years 1768-1897
                and Evangelical ones for 1808 - 1906 <www.familysearch.org>.

                By the way, familysearch.org lists an International Genealogical
                Index (IGI) entry for MARY BRATKO, born 14 AUG 1883 in Zaborow
                Brzesko, Galizien Kroenlande, Austria, died 14 MAY 1954. Parents were
                ANDREW BRATKO and SOPHIE ANTOSZ:

                http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp

                A Zaborow, in the vicinity of Brzesko, may be the one found now
                about 16mi North-West of Tarnow in Poland, some 45mi North of Jurske,
                and across the current Poland-Slovakia border. In 1991, there were
                170 BRATKOs still living in the region of Tarnow, the gratest
                concentration of BRATKOs in Poland (www.herby.pl/herby/).

                This Mary would be, of course, too young to be your ggm, if the dates
                in this IGI entry are correct. On the whole, this is just a side
                note, as the accuracy of the IGI entries should not be taken for
                granted.

                Regards,

                Bohdana Badzio


                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, jwm469@w... wrote:
                > I am asking for help in deciding wher to try to look next. My
                great-grandmother Maria Bratko married my great-
                > grandfather Andrew Molchany (Molcsany/Molcanyi) around 1891shortly
                before he left for America. Their first son
                > Andrew was born in Dec 1892 in Jurske, Slovakia. (I have the
                Molcanyi family traced back to about 1800 in Jurske.)
                >
                > I have been trying for 10+ years to find the village that my great-
                grandmother may have been from. There is no
                > information in the Ellis Island records on-line. In fact the link
                is wrong and it took me weeks to find the correct record
                > (which I have misplaced/mis-filed). I have been told that there
                were Bratko's in Bratislava. But I think that is too large a
                > city to try to find her.
                >
                > Does anyone have any ideas where I might look? My gut tells me
                that she might have been from a village to the east.
                > There are more Molcanyis to the east of Jurske. A Nicholas
                Molchany, a Greek Catholic priest was from 'Bajer Vagas,
                > Saros". I think the Molchanys migrated west from that area, maybe
                even Svidnik and surrounds. I was once told the
                > names that end in 'ko' are most likely Rusyn. That makes me want
                to look east. Another cousin said that his relatives
                > said the Molcanyi name is Rusyn. My paternal grandmother said that
                the family was part Russian - but prbably meant
                > Rusyn.
                >
                > I'm at a loss and any help would be appreciated.
                >
                > Thanks,
                >
                > Jerry
              • Bohdana Badzio
                By the way, from the Ukrainian speaker s point of view, BRATKO is a diminutive of brat , which is brother . The word also exists ib Polish, Czech (bratr) and
                Message 7 of 22 , Aug 9, 2004
                  By the way, from the Ukrainian speaker's point of view, BRATKO is a
                  diminutive of "brat", which is "brother". The word also exists ib
                  Polish, Czech (bratr) and probably Slovak (don't have a dictionary
                  handy to check).

                  Perhaps you already knew that...

                  Regards,

                  Bohdana


                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, jwm469@w... wrote:
                  > I am asking for help in deciding wher to try to look next. My
                  great-grandmother Maria Bratko married my great-
                  > grandfather Andrew Molchany (Molcsany/Molcanyi) around 1891shortly
                  before he left for America. Their first son
                  > Andrew was born in Dec 1892 in Jurske, Slovakia. (I have the
                  Molcanyi family traced back to about 1800 in Jurske.)
                  >
                  > I have been trying for 10+ years to find the village that my great-
                  grandmother may have been from. There is no
                  > information in the Ellis Island records on-line. In fact the link
                  is wrong and it took me weeks to find the correct record
                  > (which I have misplaced/mis-filed). I have been told that there
                  were Bratko's in Bratislava. But I think that is too large a
                  > city to try to find her.
                  >
                  > Does anyone have any ideas where I might look? My gut tells me
                  that she might have been from a village to the east.
                  > There are more Molcanyis to the east of Jurske. A Nicholas
                  Molchany, a Greek Catholic priest was from 'Bajer Vagas,
                  > Saros". I think the Molchanys migrated west from that area, maybe
                  even Svidnik and surrounds. I was once told the
                  > names that end in 'ko' are most likely Rusyn. That makes me want
                  to look east. Another cousin said that his relatives
                  > said the Molcanyi name is Rusyn. My paternal grandmother said that
                  the family was part Russian - but prbably meant
                  > Rusyn.
                  >
                  > I'm at a loss and any help would be appreciated.
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  >
                  > Jerry
                • Joe Mrnka
                  Bohdana, The diminutive of Bratr in Czech is Bratr^i k (i m pretty sure) and Bratri k or Bratri c^ek in Slovak, but I think I have heard the term Bratko as
                  Message 8 of 22 , Aug 10, 2004
                    Bohdana,

                    The diminutive of Bratr in Czech is Bratr^i'k (i'm pretty
                    sure) and Bratri'k or Bratri'c^ek in Slovak, but I think I
                    have heard the term Bratko as well, and that would have
                    been from the old timers.

                    Joe



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                  • Bohdana Badzio
                    Hello Joe, thank you for the information. I should ve said that in Ukrainian bratko is one of many diminutive form, and not necessarily the most common in
                    Message 9 of 22 , Aug 10, 2004
                      Hello Joe,

                      thank you for the information.

                      I should've said that in Ukrainian "bratko" is one of many diminutive
                      form, and not necessarily the most common in everyday speech. It was
                      interesting to learn what such forms are in Czech and Slovak. Thank
                      you.

                      Bohdana


                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Joe Mrnka <jmrnka@y...> wrote:
                      > Bohdana,
                      >
                      > The diminutive of Bratr in Czech is Bratr^i'k (i'm pretty
                      > sure) and Bratri'k or Bratri'c^ek in Slovak, but I think I
                      > have heard the term Bratko as well, and that would have
                      > been from the old timers.
                      >
                      > Joe
                    • Paul Sabol
                      I need some assistance with surnames in Slovakia. I m almost 100% certain my g-g-grandmother was Maria Fecso who married Andrej Sabol back in the old country
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
                        I need some assistance with surnames in Slovakia. I'm almost 100% certain my g-g-grandmother was Maria Fecso who married Andrej Sabol back in the old country (Sosujfalu). Her father was Mathias Fecso according to the local parish register.

                        Two of their sons, John and Andrew (Americanized spelling) immigrated to America in 1885. Fast forward to 1914 and Andrew dies in Yonkers, NY. On the death certificate it lists his mother's maiden name as Maria Mathias.

                        Did the Slovak culture do anything weird with female surnames where Maria might have been born a Fecso but carried her father's name as her maiden name?

                        If I didn't explain it well let me know and I'll try again.
                      • Michael Mojher
                        Paul, The use of an alias name occurs in Slovak records. Mathias is Latin for Matthew. Female names always end with ova in Slovakia. To have it become
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jun 4, 2009
                          Paul,
                          The use of an "alias" name occurs in Slovak records.
                          Mathias is Latin for Matthew. Female names always end with "ova" in Slovakia. To have it become Mathias in America seems to indicated the change was made here. Mathias happens to be the given name of her father, as you saw. How alias names were chosen I have not discovered.
                          What is an Alias?
                          Alias or aka or nickname appears sometimes with individuals, mostly male, in church records and other documents. The main reason for someone to have an alias appears to be the need of community to tell apart several families with the same surname. Alias was always given to a person or family by the community there were living in. However, there are also instances, where someone was alone with his surname, but still had an alias. He probably brought it from another place when he married into a new community or was it given to him for some other reasons. Very often it is not possible to explain the meaning of an alias.
                          In my recent research I came across a Roman Catholic parish of Kysucke Nove Mesto, where there were very many aliases used. I found this so interesting that I transcribed some of them. From the research point of view this parish is also interesting because it is very hard to figure out, when one name is an alias and the other is a regular surname and vice versa. Several aliases namely gradually changed into regular surnames. Names and aliases are written as found in the Church records from 1880 till 1895.
                          There is a thread at Ancestry.com on Slovak alias names. If you care to read that discussion go to - http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.ceeurope.slovakia.general/1749.1/mb.ashx


                          From: Paul Sabol
                          Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:50 PM
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [S-R] Surname help






                          I need some assistance with surnames in Slovakia. I'm almost 100% certain my g-g-grandmother was Maria Fecso who married Andrej Sabol back in the old country (Sosujfalu). Her father was Mathias Fecso according to the local parish register.

                          Two of their sons, John and Andrew (Americanized spelling) immigrated to America in 1885. Fast forward to 1914 and Andrew dies in Yonkers, NY. On the death certificate it lists his mother's maiden name as Maria Mathias.

                          Did the Slovak culture do anything weird with female surnames where Maria might have been born a Fecso but carried her father's name as her maiden name?

                          If I didn't explain it well let me know and I'll try again.





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • mygraytommy
                          Hello All, Here s an odd one - right side, middle of the page, the first marriage of 1770 - Andreas Staszko to Barbara ???
                          Message 12 of 22 , Mar 8, 2016

                            Hello All,


                            Here's an odd one - right side, middle of the page, the first marriage of 1770 - Andreas Staszko to Barbara ???


                            https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6D9S-F9M?mode=g&i=223&wc=9PQ8-RM9%3A107654301%2C112073701%2C152316701%2C950186701%3Fcc%3D1554443&cc=1554443&cat=755537


                            My first guess is Pivovarnik, but there's a few letters missing and it appears with the = it ends with  "vebo".  The word "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate.  


                            Does anyone have ideas?


                            Thanks much,

                            Sandra 


                          • Michael Mojher
                            Pivovarnik is a Slovak name found in eastern Slovakia. The witnesses were from Demijata, the village due north of Tulcik. I think your vebo and mizja are two
                            Message 13 of 22 , Mar 8, 2016
                              Pivovarnik is a Slovak name found in eastern Slovakia.
                              The witnesses were from Demijata, the village due north of Tulcik.
                              I think your vebo and mizja are two different words.
                              Testes, the next word is witnesses in Latin.
                              This is the Latin version of the record that seems to have used a mix of languages.


                              Michael Mojher
                              mgmojher@...


                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: pman40@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Tue, Mar 8, 2016 5:36 pm
                              Subject: [S-R] Surname help

                               
                              Hello All,

                              Here's an odd one - right side, middle of the page, the first marriage of 1770 - Andreas Staszko to Barbara ???


                              My first guess is Pivovarnik, but there's a few letters missing and it appears with the = it ends with  "vebo".  The word "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate.  

                              Does anyone have ideas?

                              Thanks much,
                              Sandra 

                            • Sandra & John Panzitta
                              Hi Michael, Thanks for your input. Here’s an example baptism entry, (top right, first entry, Maria) with the surname of Pivovarnikvebo followed by lukaisa.
                              Message 14 of 22 , Mar 9, 2016
                                Hi Michael,

                                Thanks for your input.  Here’s an example baptism entry, (top right, first entry, Maria) with the surname of Pivovarnikvebo followed by lukaisa. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6D9S-6LS?mode=g&i=126&wc=9PQ8-RM9%3A107654301%2C112073701%2C152316701%2C950186701%3Fcc%3D1554443&cc=1554443

                                While I agree the surname is Pivovarnik, I’m wondering what the ending/additional word could possibly mean for the marriage entry.  It is unique for this couple although other entries have an additional word after the woman’s name.

                                Yes, they were from Demjata.  One of my family’s alias names is Demjacky, I am guessing it refers to coming from this village.
                                 I agree this priest was using a mix of languages, going through the registers, I am seeing names or combinations of names that seem rather odd.

                                Thanks for looking!
                                Sandra


                                On Mar 9, 2016, at 1:22 AM, Michael Mojher mgmojher@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                Pivovarnik is a Slovak name found in eastern Slovakia.
                                The witnesses were from Demijata, the village due north of Tulcik.
                                I think your vebo and mizja are two different words. 
                                Testes, the next word is witnesses in Latin.
                                This is the Latin version of the record that seems to have used a mix of languages.


                                Michael Mojher
                                mgmojher@...


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: pman40@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Tue, Mar 8, 2016 5:36 pm
                                Subject: [S-R] Surname help

                                 
                                Hello All,

                                Here's an odd one - right side, middle of the page, the first marriage of 1770 - Andreas Staszko to Barbara ???


                                My first guess is Pivovarnik, but there's a few letters missing and it appears with the = it ends with  "vebo".  The word "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate.  

                                Does anyone have ideas?

                                Thanks much,
                                Sandra 



                              • curtbocha
                                My first guess is Pivovarnik, but there s a few letters missing and it appears with the = it ends with vebo . The word mizja is clearly written, however
                                Message 15 of 22 , Mar 9, 2016

                                  My first guess is Pivovarnik, but there's a few letters missing and it appears with the = it ends with  "vebo".  The word "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate.  


                                  Does anyone have ideas?


                                  Barbara Pivovarnik ovebo Mizja = Barbara Pivovarnik alias Mizja


                                  this usage is found in other registers as well.


                                  Curtb

                                • Sandra & John Panzitta
                                  Yaaaah!!! Thanks so much Curtb This group is the BEST!! With gratitude, Sandra
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Mar 9, 2016
                                    Yaaaah!!!  Thanks so much Curtb

                                    This group is the BEST!!

                                    With gratitude,
                                    Sandra
                                    On Mar 9, 2016, at 1:43 PM, curt67boc@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                    My first guess is Pivovarnik, but there's a few letters missing and it appears with the = it ends with  "vebo".  The word "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate.  


                                    Does anyone have ideas?


                                    Barbara Pivovarnik ovebo Mizja = Barbara Pivovarnik alias Mizja


                                    this usage is found in other registers as well.


                                    Curtb



                                  • Michael Mojher
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Mar 10, 2016

                                    • Michael Mojher
                                      The following was sent to me by Dr. Martin Vertuba the head of Slovak Studies at Pittsburgh University. The writer identified the person, Andrej ( Andrew,
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Mar 10, 2016
                                        The following was sent to me by Dr. Martin Vertuba the head of Slovak Studies at Pittsburgh University.

                                        The writer identified the person, Andrej ("Andrew," Andreas in Latin), through his father, Lukáš Pivovarník. Then he said that Andrej's wife was Mária. The form Pivovarníkového is possessive, "of Pivovarník, Pivovarník's." Contemporary Standard Slovak would not phrase it quite the same way, and the whole phrase is somewhat tangled, but the meaning is "Andrej Pivovarník, a/the son of Lukáš Pivovarník, and his [Andrej's] spouse Mária." Someone with poor writing skills might end up putting it that way today too.

                                        BTW, pivovarník means a "beer brewer," but that did not need to have been Lukáš's profession. And another note, the first name, Lukáš ("Luke"), used to have an alternative version Lukáč, which is what the record represents.

                                        "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate

                                        It is the genitive of Mižu, a version of Mišo common especially in parts of East Slovakia, both nicknames for Michal (Michael). The genitive is used in the attributive/possessive sense, "Michal Pivovarník's [daughter] Barbara": Barbara Pivovarníkového Miša.


                                        Michael Mojher
                                        mgmojher@...


                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Sandra & John Panzitta pman40@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Wed, Mar 9, 2016 1:30 pm
                                        Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Surname help

                                         
                                        Yaaaah!!!  Thanks so much Curtb

                                        This group is the BEST!!

                                        With gratitude,
                                        Sandra
                                        On Mar 9, 2016, at 1:43 PM, curt67boc@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                        My first guess is Pivovarnik, but there's a few letters missing and it appears with the = it ends with  "vebo".  The word "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate.  

                                        Does anyone have ideas?

                                        Barbara Pivovarnik ovebo Mizja = Barbara Pivovarnik alias Mizja

                                        this usage is found in other registers as well.

                                        Curtb


                                      • Suzanne Bond
                                        Not my query but very interesting.Suzanne From: Michael Mojher mgmojher@verizon.net [SLOVAK-ROOTS] To:
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Mar 10, 2016
                                          Not my query but very interesting.
                                          Suzanne



                                          From: "Michael Mojher mgmojher@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS]" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 10:47 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Surname help

                                           
                                          The following was sent to me by Dr. Martin Vertuba the head of Slovak Studies at Pittsburgh University.

                                          The writer identified the person, Andrej ("Andrew," Andreas in Latin), through his father, Lukáš Pivovarník. Then he said that Andrej's wife was Mária. The form Pivovarníkového is possessive, "of Pivovarník, Pivovarník's." Contemporary Standard Slovak would not phrase it quite the same way, and the whole phrase is somewhat tangled, but the meaning is "Andrej Pivovarník, a/the son of Lukáš Pivovarník, and his [Andrej's] spouse Mária." Someone with poor writing skills might end up putting it that way today too.

                                          BTW, pivovarník means a "beer brewer," but that did not need to have been Lukáš's profession. And another note, the first name, Lukáš ("Luke"), used to have an alternative version Lukáč, which is what the record represents.

                                          "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate

                                          It is the genitive of Mižu, a version of Mišo common especially in parts of East Slovakia, both nicknames for Michal (Michael). The genitive is used in the attributive/possessive sense, "Michal Pivovarník's [daughter] Barbara": Barbara Pivovarníkového Miša.


                                          Michael Mojher
                                          mgmojher@...


                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Sandra & John Panzitta pman40@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Wed, Mar 9, 2016 1:30 pm
                                          Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Surname help

                                           
                                          Yaaaah!!!  Thanks so much Curtb

                                          This group is the BEST!!

                                          With gratitude,
                                          Sandra
                                          On Mar 9, 2016, at 1:43 PM, curt67boc@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                          My first guess is Pivovarnik, but there's a few letters missing and it appears with the = it ends with  "vebo".  The word "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate.  

                                          Does anyone have ideas?

                                          Barbara Pivovarnik ovebo Mizja = Barbara Pivovarnik alias Mizja

                                          this usage is found in other registers as well.

                                          Curtb




                                        • Sandra & John Panzitta
                                          I AM DELIGHTED!!! Michaell, thank you for taking it a step further, now I know the name of my Great x7 Grandfather! Let me repeat my self - THIS IS THE BEST
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Mar 10, 2016
                                            I AM DELIGHTED!!!  Michaell, thank you for taking it a step further, now I know the name of my Great x7 Grandfather!
                                             
                                            Let me repeat my self - THIS IS THE BEST GROUP EVER!

                                            Thank you, thank you!
                                            Sandra

                                            On Mar 10, 2016, at 12:45 PM, Suzanne Bond rayandsuzanne@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                            Not my query but very interesting.
                                            Suzanne



                                            From: "Michael Mojher mgmojher@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS]" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com 
                                            Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 10:47 AM
                                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Surname help

                                             
                                            The following was sent to me by Dr. Martin Vertuba the head of Slovak Studies at Pittsburgh University.

                                            The writer identified the person, Andrej ("Andrew," Andreas in Latin), through his father, Lukáš Pivovarník. Then he said that Andrej's wife was Mária. The form Pivovarníkového is possessive, "of Pivovarník, Pivovarník's." Contemporary Standard Slovak would not phrase it quite the same way, and the whole phrase is somewhat tangled, but the meaning is "Andrej Pivovarník, a/the son of Lukáš Pivovarník, and his [Andrej's] spouse Mária." Someone with poor writing skills might end up putting it that way today too.

                                            BTW, pivovarník means a "beer brewer," but that did not need to have been Lukáš's profession. And another note, the first name, Lukáš ("Luke"), used to have an alternative version Lukáč, which is what the record represents.

                                            "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate

                                            It is the genitive of Mižu, a version of Mišo common especially in parts of East Slovakia, both nicknames for Michal (Michael). The genitive is used in the attributive/possessive sense, "Michal Pivovarník's [daughter] Barbara": Barbara Pivovarníkového Miša.


                                            Michael Mojher
                                            mgmojher@...


                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Sandra & John Panzitta pman40@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Wed, Mar 9, 2016 1:30 pm
                                            Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Surname help

                                             
                                            Yaaaah!!!  Thanks so much Curtb

                                            This group is the BEST!!

                                            With gratitude,
                                            Sandra
                                            On Mar 9, 2016, at 1:43 PM, curt67boc@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                            My first guess is Pivovarnik, but there's a few letters missing and it appears with the = it ends with  "vebo".  The word "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate.  

                                            Does anyone have ideas?

                                            Barbara Pivovarnik ovebo Mizja = Barbara Pivovarnik alias Mizja

                                            this usage is found in other registers as well.

                                            Curtb






                                          • Michael Mojher
                                            Sandra, I will repeat the message from Dr. Vortuba so you have it on your link - The following was sent to me by Dr. Martin Vertuba the head of Slovak Studies
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Mar 10, 2016
                                              Sandra,
                                                  I will repeat the message from Dr. Vortuba so you have it on your link -

                                              The following was sent to me by Dr. Martin Vertuba the head of Slovak Studies at Pittsburgh University.

                                              The writer identified the person, Andrej ("Andrew," Andreas in Latin), through his father, Lukáš Pivovarník. Then he said that Andrej's wife was Mária. The form Pivovarníkového is possessive, "of Pivovarník, Pivovarník's." Contemporary Standard Slovak would not phrase it quite the same way, and the whole phrase is somewhat tangled, but the meaning is "Andrej Pivovarník, a/the son of Lukáš Pivovarník, and his [Andrej's] spouse Mária." Someone with poor writing skills might end up putting it that way today too.

                                              BTW, pivovarník means a "beer brewer," but that did not need to have been Lukáš's profession. And another note, the first name, Lukáš ("Luke"), used to have an alternative version Lukáč, which is what the record represents.

                                              "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate

                                              It is the genitive of Mižu, a version of Mišo common especially in parts of East Slovakia, both nicknames for Michal (Michael). The genitive is used in the attributive/possessive sense, "Michal Pivovarník's [daughter] Barbara": Barbara Pivovarníkového Miša.


                                              Michael Mojher
                                              mgmojher@...


                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: Sandra & John Panzitta pman40@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Thu, Mar 10, 2016 10:28 am
                                              Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Surname help

                                               
                                              I AM DELIGHTED!!!  Michaell, thank you for taking it a step further, now I know the name of my Great x7 Grandfather!
                                               
                                              Let me repeat my self - THIS IS THE BEST GROUP EVER!

                                              Thank you, thank you!
                                              Sandra

                                              On Mar 10, 2016, at 12:45 PM, Suzanne Bond rayandsuzanne@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                              Not my query but very interesting.
                                              Suzanne



                                              From: "Michael Mojher mgmojher@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS]" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com 
                                              Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 10:47 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Surname help

                                               
                                              The following was sent to me by Dr. Martin Vertuba the head of Slovak Studies at Pittsburgh University.

                                              The writer identified the person, Andrej ("Andrew," Andreas in Latin), through his father, Lukáš Pivovarník. Then he said that Andrej's wife was Mária. The form Pivovarníkového is possessive, "of Pivovarník, Pivovarník's." Contemporary Standard Slovak would not phrase it quite the same way, and the whole phrase is somewhat tangled, but the meaning is "Andrej Pivovarník, a/the son of Lukáš Pivovarník, and his [Andrej's] spouse Mária." Someone with poor writing skills might end up putting it that way today too.

                                              BTW, pivovarník means a "beer brewer," but that did not need to have been Lukáš's profession. And another note, the first name, Lukáš ("Luke"), used to have an alternative version Lukáč, which is what the record represents.

                                              "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate

                                              It is the genitive of Mižu, a version of Mišo common especially in parts of East Slovakia, both nicknames for Michal (Michael). The genitive is used in the attributive/possessive sense, "Michal Pivovarník's [daughter] Barbara": Barbara Pivovarníkového Miša.


                                              Michael Mojher
                                              mgmojher@...


                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: Sandra & John Panzitta pman40@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Wed, Mar 9, 2016 1:30 pm
                                              Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Surname help

                                               
                                              Yaaaah!!!  Thanks so much Curtb

                                              This group is the BEST!!

                                              With gratitude,
                                              Sandra
                                              On Mar 9, 2016, at 1:43 PM, curt67boc@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                              My first guess is Pivovarnik, but there's a few letters missing and it appears with the = it ends with  "vebo".  The word "mizja" is clearly written, however it doesn't translate.  

                                              Does anyone have ideas?

                                              Barbara Pivovarnik ovebo Mizja = Barbara Pivovarnik alias Mizja

                                              this usage is found in other registers as well.

                                              Curtb






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