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Re: [S-R] Czech vs. Slovak

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  • rwkltda1@aol.com
    Thank you for your information If you could step back in time 1830 s and you lived in or near Reichenberg, which at that time was considered Bohemia, what
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 24, 2002
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      Thank you for your information> If you could step back in time 1830's and you
      lived in or near Reichenberg, which at that time was considered Bohemia, what
      language would you have spoken? Would it be the same as what you described?
      Ray
    • frankly1us
      ... t Slovaks who live in Slovakia understand the Czech language because half o= f the radio and later TV programs were in the Czech language. But, as a
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 25, 2002
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        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "Milan Huba" <illy@f...> wrote:
        > Some people will tell you that Czech and Slovak are almost the same. Mos=
        t
        > Slovaks who live in Slovakia understand the Czech language because half o=
        f
        > the radio and later TV programs were in the Czech language. But, as a
        > person who grew up hearing and speaking only Slovak, I have a great deal =
        of
        > difficulty understanding Czech. As a matter of fact, I find it easier to
        > understand Polish than Czech.
        >
        > There are plenty of Slovak language tapes available. Go on google.com an=
        d
        > search for Slovak Language tapes.
        >
        > Milan Huba

        Subject: Are Slovak and Czech different ?
        It was addressed in this forum back in July 2001.

        Czech is a Slavic (or Slavonic) language belonging to
        a group of West Slavic languages which include Polish,
        Slovak, Sorbian (Saxony, Germany), and Polabian, now
        extinct.

        The Slavic languages are more similar to each other
        than are the Romance languages, especiallyin respect
        to their basic lexicons, phonologies and morphological
        structures.
        Czech and Slovak are very similar and mutually intelligible.


        Czech dialects are generally divided into four major groups:
        Bohemian, Central Moravian, Eastern Moravian or Moravian Slovak,
        and Silesian (Lach).
        The Prague dialect is the basis for standard written Czech,
        also known as Standard or Literary Czech.
        The colloquial spoken form of the language is called Common Czech.
        It is rooted in Central Bohemia but is spoken beyond this traditional
        area.
        Local dialect differences are increasingly subsumed by Common Czech,
        which is itself influenced by local dialect differences.
        The Eastern Moravian dialect is a transitional dialect between Czech
        and Slovak.
        The dialects are all mutually intelligible.
        Bohemian forms of Czech are fairly uniform with greater diversity in
        Bohemia; Silesian dialects are most diverse and some grade into Polish.
        Czech has borrowed extensively from German.


        Modern Standard Czech is the language of publication, education, and
        cultivated speech, but it exists alongside Common Czech, a sixteenth
        century development that in some cases rivals the standard.

        Both Czech and Slovak descend from "Middle Czech," which was spoken in
        fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, and ultimately from "Old Czech,"
        which dates back to the eleventh century.
        Although Czech and Slovak are closely related, they are considered
        distinct languages -- a result of their political and linguistic heritage.
        For example, the German influence on Czech, seen in the substantial number =
        of loan words from German, derives from the period when Austria dominated Bo=
        hemia and Moravia.
        Slovak, on the other hand, shows signs of Hungarian influence, due to
        political domination by the Hungarian Empire.


        Czech is the offical language of the Czech Republic, spoken
        by virtually the entire population of 10 million people.
        It is closely related to Slovak, spoken in Slovakia, the two
        languages in fact being mutually intelligible.

        Slavic as a branch of the Indo-European family of languages,
        is usually divided into East Slavic, West Slavic, and South Slavic.

        East Slavic (Russian, Ukrainian, Byelorussian)
        West Slavic (Polish, Czech, Slovak, Sorbian)
        South Slavic (Serbo-Croatian, Slovenian, Macedonian, Bulgarian,
        Old Church Slavonic)


        Czech is a Slavic language written in the Roman script. The
        foundations of the alphabet were laid by the great religious
        reformer Jan Hus, in the early 15th century. The letters q, w,
        and x are missing, while c is pronounced ts (e.g.,cena—price),
        ch as in German (kachna—duck), and j as y (jazyk—language).
        Acute accents lengthen the vowels (kámen—stone), while a circle
        over the u produces a long oo sound (dum—house).
        The chevron (carat) over c, s, and z produces ch, sh, and zh
        respectively (cislo—number, kos—basket, zivot—life).
        But n is pro-nounced ny as in "canyon" (dan—tax), e is pronounced
        ye (mesto—city), and r is pronounced rzh, as in the name Dvorak.
        The letter r serves as a vowel, producing such strange-looking
        words as krk (neck), smrt (death), and (ivri (quarter).
        Czech language doesn't like to use many vowels.
        One Czech phrase is 'strc^ prst skrz krk' = stick your
        finger through your throat. (Now that's hard to do ! Joke)

        Czech alphabet uses certain diacritics : A~á,C^c^,D^d^,E~é,
        E^e^, I'í, N^n^, O'ó, R^r^, S^s^, T^t', U'ú, U~u~, Y'y', Z^z^.
        (As you can see except for certain ASCII equivalents below you
        need to use Czech fonts and KB to replicate these diacritics)


        So Czech and Slovak are both West Slavic languages.

        Czech language doesn't like to use many vowels.
        One Czech phrase is 'strc^ prst skrz krk' = stick your
        finger through your throat. Now that's hard ! :-)

        Slovak has some features that distinguish it from Czech.
        43 letters of Slovak language are pronounced similarily
        to those of Czech 40 letters.
        Slovak has a flat vowel ä (Slovak pät=Czech pe^t, 'five)
        a palatized l [written l'](Slovak majitel'a vs. Czech
        majitele)
        Slovak uses diphthongs ia, ie, io, iu, and Czech doesn't.
        (Slovak zamestnanie vs. Czech zame^stnáni = employment)

        Slovak uses dz and dz^ and does not have the Czech r^
        (pron. rzh)[Slovak u'rad vs. Czech ur^ad =office]


        Czech alphabet uses certain diacritics : A~á,C^c^,D^d^,E~é,
        E^e^, I'í, N^n^, O'ó, R^r^, S^s^, T^t', U'ú, U~u~, Y'y', Z^z^.
        (As you can see except for certain ASCII equivalents you
        need to use Czech fonts and KB to replicate these diacritics)

        But Czech spelling is among the most phonetic of all European
        languages.
        However, Czech spelling in the past differed quite a bit from
        modern pratctice. Present day diacritical marks were introduced
        about 1820. In the past a different system was used similar to
        current Hungarian and Polish practices. For example, 'ch' was
        'cz', 'v' was 'w', and 'sh' was 'sch'.

        The main reason the spelling of Czech surnames varies was the
        conversion of the Czech letters with diacritical marks into
        German i.e. Dvorak - Dvorschak.
        When the Czech immigrants moved to America they often dropped
        the diacritics to reflect the actual pronunciation (i.e.Nemetz,
        for Nemec), or retained the German spelling (i.e.Swoboda, for
        Svoboda).

        You can use ASCII characters only so far, and for e-mail, Netscape
        automatically converts Central European (Win1250) to ISO-8859-2
        (Internet) before sending. You must use what your correspondents
        are using and most are using nothing !
        MS Internet Explorer is suppose to be multi-lingual but it isn't.

        Accent Marks ?

        [Slovak diacritical marks c^,s^, z^, n^ can't be reproduced in
        ASCII]
        ('caret' should appear inverted above the letter, not next to
        letter as above) This mark is called a mäc^en^ = 'softener' in Slovak.
        Many use ~ or just ' to represent diacritics.

        Slovak alphabet uses certain diacritics : A'á; Ä,ä ; C~,c~; D~,d';
        É,é;I',í; L',l'; L`,l`; N~,n~ ; O',ó; O~,ô; ,R,'r'; S~,s~; T~,t'; U',ú
        ; Y',y'; Z~`,z~.
        A few marks can be made using extended ASCII code, but most require Slovak =
        fonts and a Slovak keyboard.


        Hác~ek in Czech (literally "little hook")

        the two dots over a are called dve bodky = two dots (ä = s~iroké ä or
        'wide ä and pron. same as e )

        the dl'zen~ = prolonger is called dlz~en~ = long sign (as in á)

        makc~en is called mäkc~en~ = soft sound (c~,D~/d')

        vokán~ = cicumflex (ô)






        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: PopeBela@A... [mailto:PopeBela@A...]
        > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 8:34 PM
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@y...
        > Subject: [S-R] Czech vs. Slovak
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi List,
        >
        > Just how close are the languages of Czech and Slovak?
        >
        > I may be visiting Slovakia next fall and would like to learn the language=
        .
        > While I can find Slovak-English dictionaries and grammar books, I can't f=
        ind
        > an
        > audio cassette or CD of Slovak. No luck on Amazon.com either!
        >
        > So, since I can't find any Slovak-audio, could I substitute a Czech CD/ta=
        pe
        > if the languages are close enough?
        >
        > Thanks for any insight!
        > Chris

        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=
      • monica wentworth
        I thought these languages were as close as Italian and Spanish. But if they are as close and US english and Brit english that s pretty amazing. ...
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 28, 2002
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          I thought these languages were as close as Italian and Spanish. But if they
          are as close and US english and Brit english that's pretty amazing.

          >From: Jozef Riskalcik <riskalcik@...>
          >Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: Re: [S-R] Czech vs. Slovak
          >Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:05:11 -0800 (PST)
          >
          >hi Chris,
          >
          >slovak and czech languages are as close as American English and British
          >English,
          >but there are many different words and gramatics features.
          >
          >but it depend of you which language you want to learn, if you are going to
          >go to the Slovakia,
          >it's better to learn slovak language.
          >
          >I recommend you to choose language which speak your friends or relatives
          >:-)
          >They help you to learn.
          >
          >If you looking for slovak or czech audios, you can try real audio.
          >I recommend you:
          >www.twist.sk - mews, fun... real audio and download audio files
          >www.slovakradio.sk - slovak state radios -
          >http://www.slovakradio.sk/rsi/index.html - there you
          >can find short wave broadcasting in America too
          >
          >www.mesto.sk - slovak towns and cities
          >
          >internet portals -Slovakia:
          >www.zoznam.sk
          >www.superzoznam.sk or www.szm.sk
          >www.atlas.sk
          >www.centrum.cz
          >
          >internet portals -Czech:
          >www.seznam.cz
          >www.centrum.cz
          >www.atlas.cz
          >
          >Slovak book shop:
          >www.dunaj.sk (Dunaj - the river -Danube :-)
          >
          >Czech book shop:
          >www.vltava.cz
          >
          >but I don't know if they have delivery to the USA.
          >
          >If you want I can help you to obtain slovak books or audios, because I am
          >slovak inhabitant and I
          >live in Bratislava (capital city of Slovakia). Write directly to mail
          >email: riskalcik@...
          >
          >joseph
          >
          >--- PopeBela@... wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi List,
          > >
          > > Just how close are the languages of Czech and Slovak?
          > >
          > > I may be visiting Slovakia next fall and would like to learn the
          >language.
          > > While I can find Slovak-English dictionaries and grammar books, I can't
          >find
          > > an
          > > audio cassette or CD of Slovak. No luck on Amazon.com either!
          > >
          > > So, since I can't find any Slovak-audio, could I substitute a Czech
          >CD/tape
          > > if the languages are close enough?
          > >
          > > Thanks for any insight!
          > > Chris
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >=====
          >
          >
          >__________________________________________________
          >Do You Yahoo!?
          >Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
          >http://auctions.yahoo.com


          _________________________________________________________________
          Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
        • Armata, Joseph R. (JArmata)
          Here s a bit more input. I learned Slovak the hard way as an adult, and when I started trying to read Czech it was very very difficult. It seemed I had to
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 28, 2002
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            Here's a bit more input.

            I learned Slovak the hard way as an adult, and when I started trying to read
            Czech it was very very difficult. It seemed I had to look up every 3rd or
            4th word, and some sentences I had to read many times until I understood the
            syntax and could make sense of them. So from my perspective, the
            differences between them aren't trivial.

            A year or so ago I was talking with a Slovak visiting the US. He was in his
            40s and had grown up under Czechoslovakia, where he heard Czech all the time
            on TV and radio etc, and he understood it fine. But his young children who
            grew up under the Slovak Republic have not been exposed to Czech like he
            was, and he's amazed that they can't understand it. I think native Slovak
            speakers of middle age and older find Slovak and Czech so similar because
            they've grown up with both.

            Joe


            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: monica wentworth [SMTP:czeching@...]
            > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 11:05 AM
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [S-R] Czech vs. Slovak
            >
            >
            > I thought these languages were as close as Italian and Spanish. But if
            > they
            > are as close and US english and Brit english that's pretty amazing.
            >
          • Milan Huba
            I not sure that I would agree that Czech and Slovak are as close as British and American English. I have no problem speaking and understanding Slovak, but
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 28, 2002
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              I not sure that I would agree that Czech and Slovak are as close as British
              and American English. I have no problem speaking and understanding Slovak,
              but have a great deal of difficulty understanding Czech. I have Slovak
              relatives in Prague that I visit periodically. The Czechs there don't seem
              to have any problem understanding my Slovak. I was told that they understood
              Slovak because both languages were used on radio and TV. But, I haven't
              been exposed to Czech so that when they talk to me in Czech, I understand
              only about 50% of what they are saying.


              -----Original Message-----
              From: monica wentworth [mailto:czeching@...]
              Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 10:05 AM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Czech vs. Slovak



              I thought these languages were as close as Italian and Spanish. But if they
              are as close and US english and Brit english that's pretty amazing.

              >From: Jozef Riskalcik <riskalcik@...>
              >Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [S-R] Czech vs. Slovak
              >Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:05:11 -0800 (PST)
              >
              >hi Chris,
              >
              >slovak and czech languages are as close as American English and British
              >English,
              >but there are many different words and gramatics features.
              >
              >but it depend of you which language you want to learn, if you are going to
              >go to the Slovakia,
              >it's better to learn slovak language.
              >
              >I recommend you to choose language which speak your friends or relatives
              >:-)
              >They help you to learn.
              >
              >If you looking for slovak or czech audios, you can try real audio.
              >I recommend you:
              >www.twist.sk - mews, fun... real audio and download audio files
              >www.slovakradio.sk - slovak state radios -
              >http://www.slovakradio.sk/rsi/index.html - there you
              >can find short wave broadcasting in America too
              >
              >www.mesto.sk - slovak towns and cities
              >
              >internet portals -Slovakia:
              >www.zoznam.sk
              >www.superzoznam.sk or www.szm.sk
              >www.atlas.sk
              >www.centrum.cz
              >
              >internet portals -Czech:
              >www.seznam.cz
              >www.centrum.cz
              >www.atlas.cz
              >
              >Slovak book shop:
              >www.dunaj.sk (Dunaj - the river -Danube :-)
              >
              >Czech book shop:
              >www.vltava.cz
              >
              >but I don't know if they have delivery to the USA.
              >
              >If you want I can help you to obtain slovak books or audios, because I am
              >slovak inhabitant and I
              >live in Bratislava (capital city of Slovakia). Write directly to mail
              >email: riskalcik@...
              >
              >joseph
              >
              >--- PopeBela@... wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi List,
              > >
              > > Just how close are the languages of Czech and Slovak?
              > >
              > > I may be visiting Slovakia next fall and would like to learn the
              >language.
              > > While I can find Slovak-English dictionaries and grammar books, I can't
              >find
              > > an
              > > audio cassette or CD of Slovak. No luck on Amazon.com either!
              > >
              > > So, since I can't find any Slovak-audio, could I substitute a Czech
              >CD/tape
              > > if the languages are close enough?
              > >
              > > Thanks for any insight!
              > > Chris
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >=====
              >
              >
              >__________________________________________________
              >Do You Yahoo!?
              >Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
              >http://auctions.yahoo.com


              _________________________________________________________________
              Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com





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