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RE: [S-R] translation help

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  • deadheadbw@aol.com
    thank you so much
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 23, 2002
      thank you so much
    • Deborah
      I am trying to find out the correct translation of the parent of Jacobus Csutek, # 77, and what it is saying about her parents. When I Google Translated
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 6, 2013
        I am trying to find out the correct translation of the parent of Jacobus
        Csutek, # 77, and what it is saying about her parents. When I Google
        Translated "servilus", it says slave. Was this some kind of indentured
        servitude?
        https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443&\
        wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403
        <https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443\
        &wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403>
        Anna was 27 at the time, and shortly after she left to the States,
        leaving Jacob behind until he was 19. She had already married in
        Pennsylvania and had a large family before he ever came over. I am
        trying to figure out the story behind this and I am going crazy already.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Deborah
        I am trying to find out the correct translation of the parent of Jacobus Csutek, # 77, and what it is saying about her parents. When I Google Translated
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 6, 2013
          I am trying to find out the correct translation of the parent of Jacobus
          Csutek, # 77, and what it is saying about her parents. When I Google
          Translated "servilus", it says slave. Was this some kind of indentured
          servitude?
          https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443&\
          wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403
          <https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443\
          &wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403>
          Anna was 27 at the time, and shortly after she left to the States,
          leaving Jacob behind until he was 19. She had already married in
          Pennsylvania and had a large family before he ever came over. I am
          trying to figure out the story behind this and I am going crazy already.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • MGMojher
          servus : slave, serf. I think in your case it refers to a serf. From: Deborah Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 1:44 PM To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com Subject:
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 6, 2013
            servus : slave, serf.
            I think in your case it refers to a serf.

            From: Deborah
            Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 1:44 PM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [S-R] translation help


            I am trying to find out the correct translation of the parent of Jacobus
            Csutek, # 77, and what it is saying about her parents. When I Google
            Translated "servilus", it says slave. Was this some kind of indentured
            servitude?
            https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443&\
            wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403
            <https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443\
            &wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403>
            Anna was 27 at the time, and shortly after she left to the States,
            leaving Jacob behind until he was 19. She had already married in
            Pennsylvania and had a large family before he ever came over. I am
            trying to figure out the story behind this and I am going crazy already.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Deborah
            Thank you, Michael. What exactly is serfdom in 1892 Klubina? Anna was 27 when she had Jacob and getting pregnant first time at that age seems a bit unusual.
            Message 5 of 18 , Jun 6, 2013
              Thank you, Michael. What exactly is serfdom in 1892 Klubina? Anna was 27 when she had Jacob and getting pregnant first time at that age seems a bit unusual. Her oldest sister ( by 8 yrs) was married and living in another town. I am trying to wrap my mind around what it was like or her and what was going on with getting pregnant, ( nobody alive in the family to tell the story,) and if it was so horrible living there, why did she leave Jacob there for George and Anna to raise. What is frustrating, is that I have tracked down 6 of 7 siblings, but she still remains a mystery. And she is the direct ancestor I need to find out>

              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
              >
              > servus : slave, serf.
              > I think in your case it refers to a serf.
              >
              > From: Deborah
              > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 1:44 PM
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [S-R] translation help
              >
              >
              > I am trying to find out the correct translation of the parent of Jacobus
              > Csutek, # 77, and what it is saying about her parents. When I Google
              > Translated "servilus", it says slave. Was this some kind of indentured
              > servitude?
              > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443&\
              > wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403
              > <https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443\
              > &wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403>
              > Anna was 27 at the time, and shortly after she left to the States,
              > leaving Jacob behind until he was 19. She had already married in
              > Pennsylvania and had a large family before he ever came over. I am
              > trying to figure out the story behind this and I am going crazy already.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Elaine Powell
              Deborah, I have an ancestor (surname Kolarcik) who also had that designation. In his case, he was living in what seemed to be a house owned by a noble family
              Message 6 of 18 , Jun 6, 2013
                Deborah,

                I have an ancestor (surname Kolarcik) who also had that designation. In his case, he was living in what seemed to be a house owned by a noble family in the late 1700s. I assumed it meant servant. In subsequent generations, the men in my direct paternal line were blacksmiths. Possibly this man also had that occupation, but solely for that noble house.

                In my understanding of "serf," that is a person who works land owned by someone else of higher status and would typically have a house to live in and a share of the harvest.

                Elaine

                On Jun 6, 2013, at 4:02 PM, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:

                > servus : slave, serf.
                > I think in your case it refers to a serf.
                >
                > From: Deborah
                > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 1:44 PM
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [S-R] translation help
                >
                > I am trying to find out the correct translation of the parent of Jacobus
                > Csutek, # 77, and what it is saying about her parents. When I Google
                > Translated "servilus", it says slave. Was this some kind of indentured
                > servitude?
                > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443&\
                > wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403
                > <https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443\
                > &wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403>
                > Anna was 27 at the time, and shortly after she left to the States,
                > leaving Jacob behind until he was 19. She had already married in
                > Pennsylvania and had a large family before he ever came over. I am
                > trying to figure out the story behind this and I am going crazy already.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Deborah
                Thank you Elaine. That does help. In Anna s situation, I did not know how that worked. I was told by newfound cousins in Slovakia that the rumor was that
                Message 7 of 18 , Jun 6, 2013
                  Thank you Elaine. That does help. In Anna's situation, I did not know how that worked. I was told by newfound cousins in Slovakia that the rumor was that the oldest sister worked for a wealthy Jewish family in the area, most likely as a maid, and it seems that by the time Anna came of age, she did not marry, I don't think, but not sure. I just did not realize that she too could be out in the fields. I do not know what Georgius Csutek's occupation was. I know Anna's younger brother was a locksmith and the other's were laborers. Perhaps it is all of that line that were "serfs" of that landowner, though I have no idea how to find out who that might be. The whole situation just seemed odd. that she would leave Jacob and have appr 7 more children in the USA. And while she brought over at least 5 more siblings and cousins, she didn't bring Jacob over until he was grown.

                  I am sorry for my previous emotional outburst. I have been hitting the brick wall now for over a year with her and I just get frustrated, None of the puzzle pieces seem to quite fit, they just "almost" do. Thank you again for all your help and sharing.

                  Deborah

                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Elaine Powell <epowell@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Deborah,
                  >
                  > I have an ancestor (surname Kolarcik) who also had that designation. In his case, he was living in what seemed to be a house owned by a noble family in the late 1700s. I assumed it meant servant. In subsequent generations, the men in my direct paternal line were blacksmiths. Possibly this man also had that occupation, but solely for that noble house.
                  >
                  > In my understanding of "serf," that is a person who works land owned by someone else of higher status and would typically have a house to live in and a share of the harvest.
                  >
                  > Elaine
                  >
                  > On Jun 6, 2013, at 4:02 PM, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > servus : slave, serf.
                  > > I think in your case it refers to a serf.
                  > >
                  > > From: Deborah
                  > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 1:44 PM
                  > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [S-R] translation help
                  > >
                  > > I am trying to find out the correct translation of the parent of Jacobus
                  > > Csutek, # 77, and what it is saying about her parents. When I Google
                  > > Translated "servilus", it says slave. Was this some kind of indentured
                  > > servitude?
                  > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443&\
                  > > wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403
                  > > <https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443\
                  > > &wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403>
                  > > Anna was 27 at the time, and shortly after she left to the States,
                  > > leaving Jacob behind until he was 19. She had already married in
                  > > Pennsylvania and had a large family before he ever came over. I am
                  > > trying to figure out the story behind this and I am going crazy already.
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • MGMojher
                  Deborah, On March 15, 1848: The Hungarian Diet passed The March Laws, by which serfdom was abolished. Being a peasant was not much better than being a serf
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jun 6, 2013
                    Deborah,
                    On March 15, 1848: The Hungarian Diet passed The March Laws, by which serfdom was abolished. Being a peasant was not much better than being a serf economically in 1892.
                    The Latin word servus is the root to the English word serve. So, while neither slave nor serf, the peasants had duties or goods that they paid to rent homes, land or both. The Slovak peasants as early as the 1400’s became the migrant works of Europe. They couldn’t survive without going elsewhere to earn money. By the 1800’s coming to America became cheap enough for them to come and work in America. Not being serfs they could stay on. My own great-grandfather came in the 1880’s and worked for three years. The goal was to earn the “Golden $1000” so they could return home, buy land and live comfortably the rest of their lives. That is why Slovaks had the second highest return rate from America after the Hungarians, over 50%.
                    Kublina with 548 people is about the same size as my ancestral village of Hromos. From the village website (www.klubina.sk) is this history translated by Google:
                    History of the village
                    Klubina Village is one of the oldest villages Bystrica valley (it is possible that even the oldest)
                    - the territory was settled in Slavic period (Great Moravian finding mounds) in 1417 - the schedule indicating the boundaries Beautiful Kysucou mentions names Csernatín, Bisztrica the stream Klubina 1418 - similar document defining the boundaries Beautiful Kysucou the name Kulbuzca - this has already been Vŕšky name - it can be assumed that already existed scattered settlements, which later grew into a community of 1535 - the inventory of assets Strečno mentions the settlement Klubina Bystrica - settlement arose Wallachian colonization in 1662 - the first written record of the village - by that time the village was characterized rather than shed and grazing - the village has a mayor and inter richtárskej still holding 7 serf economies - one of the Strečno 17 century. - since the late 17th century probably existed in Klubine glassworks (Chotár names Hutisko, or Pecisko) - the brilliant green Peasant land surface are collecting pieces of flat and container glass - glass sand is digging in Rock Hill locations around the 18th century. - glass production resumed Earl Windischgrätz the site Bacmanovho stream below Malou Raca - glassworks worked even after the owner (the new owner Baron Sina) - preserved finds of glass products can be found in the museum Kysucky Radoľa - Klubinskej in the valley and burned charcoal (s distillery, Uhlisko) 1712 - 10 taxpayers in 1728 - eight settlements, 25 inhabitants in 1798 - 600 people in 1811 - set up in the village cemetery - near the cemetery bell tower built in 1812- belfry bell by 1823 - in the middle of the village built polychrome stone statue of the Virgin Mary in 1831 - in the village for 35 people die from cholera in 1850 - the municipality has 779 inhabitants - is the Old Rectory Bystrica 1882 - bell tower of r. 1811 built again - a new copy of the old bell tower was in 1891- in the village are taught in church schools - school founders was the Parish Office in Stara Bystrica - J. Šipkovský is the oldest known teacher of the 19th century. - end of the century built multi-purpose building - water mill and a sawmill - are located in the basement of the driven equipment, gater, millrace, manufacture shingles and sifting grain - object is currently located at the Museum kysuckej village in Vychylovka

                    Coat of arms Klubina

                    Proposal coat of arms municipality Klubina discussed Heraldic Commission of the Ministry of Interior of the Slovak Republic on 25.6.2002 and recommended it for adoption by municipal corporation and the entry in the Register of the Slovak Republic heraldic under no. HR 186/K-194/02 in this form:

                    The blue shield in zelenj pažiti standing silver pelican taking off with long saggy neck in golden armor, kľujúci your own chest with three red drops of blood, to which messages arrive three cubs playing tinctures. In the upper corners of the shield after one gold star.

                    From the history you can see there was a fair amount of employment available.
                    Anna at 27 have a first child is very unusual.
                    It may have not been that terrible living in Klubina. I found that people in small villages were often able to provide for themselves. If they had a paying job it was even better.
                    Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to know what life was like for Anna. Often households had extended family members living together. So she more than likely was living with a relative.
                    From: Deborah
                    Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 2:39 PM
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [S-R] translation help


                    Thank you, Michael. What exactly is serfdom in 1892 Klubina? Anna was 27 when she had Jacob and getting pregnant first time at that age seems a bit unusual. Her oldest sister ( by 8 yrs) was married and living in another town. I am trying to wrap my mind around what it was like or her and what was going on with getting pregnant, ( nobody alive in the family to tell the story,) and if it was so horrible living there, why did she leave Jacob there for George and Anna to raise. What is frustrating, is that I have tracked down 6 of 7 siblings, but she still remains a mystery. And she is the direct ancestor I need to find out>

                    --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > servus : slave, serf.
                    > I think in your case it refers to a serf.
                    >
                    > From: Deborah
                    > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 1:44 PM
                    > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [S-R] translation help
                    >
                    >
                    > I am trying to find out the correct translation of the parent of Jacobus
                    > Csutek, # 77, and what it is saying about her parents. When I Google
                    > Translated "servilus", it says slave. Was this some kind of indentured
                    > servitude?
                    > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443&\
                    > wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403
                    > <https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443\
                    > &wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403>
                    > Anna was 27 at the time, and shortly after she left to the States,
                    > leaving Jacob behind until he was 19. She had already married in
                    > Pennsylvania and had a large family before he ever came over. I am
                    > trying to figure out the story behind this and I am going crazy already.
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Deborah
                    My Grandfather always spoke very fondly of his home in Slovakia, though my Dad had forgot the name and I had to rediscover it. I know at least one of his first
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jun 6, 2013
                      My Grandfather always spoke very fondly of his home in Slovakia, though my Dad had forgot the name and I had to rediscover it. I know at least one of his first cousins did return. That was the one whose son Anton became the Sculptor. That school in the 1890's would be the one Jacob went to for 4 years. He said it was beautiful there. I think he , his uncles, aunts, and cousins decided to stay in the USA once they got married and had children. Jacob worked in the mines in Southeast Ohio) Annie died when my Dad was still young, and a lot of the stories were lost with her. I have struggled to recreate their past in order to understand the story of this family and I have a long long way to go.

                      So I very much appreciate your insight into the little village of Klubina during that time when my ancestors went through so many abrupt changes. It does help explain things. Perhaps there will be a time yet when i can put all the puzzle pieces together. ( In saying this I laugh, because my most vivid memories of Jacob as an old man were of him sitting quietly in the corner, always putting together these enormous puzzles. Perhaps I am my Grandfather's Granddaughter after all)

                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Deborah,
                      > On March 15, 1848: The Hungarian Diet passed The March Laws, by which serfdom was abolished. Being a peasant was not much better than being a serf economically in 1892.
                      > The Latin word servus is the root to the English word serve. So, while neither slave nor serf, the peasants had duties or goods that they paid to rent homes, land or both. The Slovak peasants as early as the 1400’s became the migrant works of Europe. They couldn’t survive without going elsewhere to earn money. By the 1800’s coming to America became cheap enough for them to come and work in America. Not being serfs they could stay on. My own great-grandfather came in the 1880’s and worked for three years. The goal was to earn the “Golden $1000” so they could return home, buy land and live comfortably the rest of their lives. That is why Slovaks had the second highest return rate from America after the Hungarians, over 50%.
                      > Kublina with 548 people is about the same size as my ancestral village of Hromos. F


                      > From the history you can see there was a fair amount of employment available.
                      > Anna at 27 have a first child is very unusual.
                      > It may have not been that terrible living in Klubina. I found that people in small villages were often able to provide for themselves. If they had a paying job it was even better.
                      > Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to know what life was like for Anna. Often households had extended family members living together. So she more than likely was living with a relative.
                      > From: Deborah
                      > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 2:39 PM
                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [S-R] translation help
                      >
                      >
                      > Thank you, Michael. What exactly is serfdom in 1892 Klubina? Anna was 27 when she had Jacob and getting pregnant first time at that age seems a bit unusual. Her oldest sister ( by 8 yrs) was married and living in another town. I am trying to wrap my mind around what it was like or her and what was going on with getting pregnant, ( nobody alive in the family to tell the story,) and if it was so horrible living there, why did she leave Jacob there for George and Anna to raise. What is frustrating, is that I have tracked down 6 of 7 siblings, but she still remains a mystery. And she is the direct ancestor I need to find out>
                      >
                      > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > servus : slave, serf.
                      > > I think in your case it refers to a serf.
                      > >
                      > > From: Deborah
                      > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 1:44 PM
                      > > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: [S-R] translation help
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > I am trying to find out the correct translation of the parent of Jacobus
                      > > Csutek, # 77, and what it is saying about her parents. When I Google
                      > > Translated "servilus", it says slave. Was this some kind of indentured
                      > > servitude?
                      > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443&\
                      > > wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403
                      > > <https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443\
                      > > &wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403>
                      > > Anna was 27 at the time, and shortly after she left to the States,
                      > > leaving Jacob behind until he was 19. She had already married in
                      > > Pennsylvania and had a large family before he ever came over. I am
                      > > trying to figure out the story behind this and I am going crazy already.
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • MGMojher
                      http://www.e-obce.sk/obec/klubina/klubina.html This link goes to an information page on Klubina. It has a lot of information; name of the Mayor a woman, the
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jun 6, 2013
                        http://www.e-obce.sk/obec/klubina/klubina.html This link goes to an information page on Klubina. It has a lot of information; name of the Mayor a woman, the e-mail address for her and City Hall, and other things of interest.

                        From: Deborah
                        Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 1:42 PM
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [S-R] translation help


                        I am trying to find out the correct translation of the parent of Jacobus
                        Csutek, # 77, and what it is saying about her parents. When I Google
                        Translated "servilus", it says slave. Was this some kind of indentured
                        servitude?
                        https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443&\
                        wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403
                        <https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443\
                        &wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403>
                        Anna was 27 at the time, and shortly after she left to the States,
                        leaving Jacob behind until he was 19. She had already married in
                        Pennsylvania and had a large family before he ever came over. I am
                        trying to figure out the story behind this and I am going crazy already.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Deborah
                        Thank you VERY much! This is a great site . It is very interesting. And hopefully I can contact somebody there who can further help my quest! Deborah
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jun 6, 2013
                          Thank you VERY much! This is a great site . It is very interesting. And hopefully I can contact somebody there who can further help my quest!

                          Deborah

                          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > http://www.e-obce.sk/obec/klubina/klubina.html This link goes to an information page on Klubina. It has a lot of information; name of the Mayor a woman, the e-mail address for her and City Hall, and other things of interest.
                          >
                          > From: Deborah
                          > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 1:42 PM
                          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [S-R] translation help
                          >
                          >
                          > I am trying to find out the correct translation of the parent of Jacobus
                          > Csutek, # 77, and what it is saying about her parents. When I Google
                          > Translated "servilus", it says slave. Was this some kind of indentured
                          > servitude?
                          > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443&\
                          > wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403
                          > <https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443\
                          > &wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403>
                          > Anna was 27 at the time, and shortly after she left to the States,
                          > leaving Jacob behind until he was 19. She had already married in
                          > Pennsylvania and had a large family before he ever came over. I am
                          > trying to figure out the story behind this and I am going crazy already.
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • bassfantastic
                          I find this information interesting about immigration. On the Petition for Citizenship, form my husband s G Grandfather, it says he came here in 1880.
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jun 7, 2013
                            I find this information interesting about immigration. On the Petition for Citizenship, form my husband's G Grandfather, it says he came here in 1880. However, I never found a passenger list. However, his wife and living children came in 1903. And, they had 6 kids born in Natafalva between 1880 & 1903 so I would have to assume that the father must have either been mistaken on his Petition or he went back and forth. Was travel expensive?

                            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Deborah,
                            > On March 15, 1848: The Hungarian Diet passed The March Laws, by which serfdom was abolished. Being a peasant was not much better than being a serf economically in 1892.
                            > The Latin word servus is the root to the English word serve. So, while neither slave nor serf, the peasants had duties or goods that they paid to rent homes, land or both. The Slovak peasants as early as the 1400’s became the migrant works of Europe. They couldn’t survive without going elsewhere to earn money. By the 1800’s coming to America became cheap enough for them to come and work in America. Not being serfs they could stay on. My own great-grandfather came in the 1880’s and worked for three years. The goal was to earn the “Golden $1000” so they could return home, buy land and live comfortably the rest of their lives. That is why Slovaks had the second highest return rate from America after the Hungarians, over 50%.

                            >
                          • Elaine Powell
                            Deborah, one final thought on what you just wrote: If your female relative was a maid in a wealthy household as your newfound cousins indicated, she probably
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jun 7, 2013
                              Deborah, one final thought on what you just wrote:

                              If your female relative was a maid in a wealthy household as your newfound cousins indicated, she probably would have lived in their house and would not have worked in the fields.

                              One thing you might consider doing is checking to see if there is a "Family History Center" (located in Mormon churches) where you could rent microfilms of the birth/death/marriage records of your ancestral village. While these records have been put online now, I found it very helpful to look at a village as time goes by.

                              Also, there are microfilms of censuses taken of each town in various years. I think one was done in 1869, and it lists the occupation of each resident. That might tell you more about the family with which you ancestor lived.

                              Hang in there! Genealogy for me is as much about the "journey" (learning about the times and conditions in which our ancestors lived) as it is the destination, finding our family).

                              Elaine

                              On Jun 6, 2013, at 7:34 PM, "Deborah" <dljillustrations@...> wrote:

                              > Thank you Elaine. That does help. In Anna's situation, I did not know how that worked. I was told by newfound cousins in Slovakia that the rumor was that the oldest sister worked for a wealthy Jewish family in the area, most likely as a maid, and it seems that by the time Anna came of age, she did not marry, I don't think, but not sure. I just did not realize that she too could be out in the fields. I do not know what Georgius Csutek's occupation was. I know Anna's younger brother was a locksmith and the other's were laborers. Perhaps it is all of that line that were "serfs" of that landowner, though I have no idea how to find out who that might be. The whole situation just seemed odd. that she would leave Jacob and have appr 7 more children in the USA. And while she brought over at least 5 more siblings and cousins, she didn't bring Jacob over until he was grown.
                              >
                              > I am sorry for my previous emotional outburst. I have been hitting the brick wall now for over a year with her and I just get frustrated, None of the puzzle pieces seem to quite fit, they just "almost" do. Thank you again for all your help and sharing.
                              >
                              > Deborah
                              >
                              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Elaine Powell <epowell@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Deborah,
                              > >
                              > > I have an ancestor (surname Kolarcik) who also had that designation. In his case, he was living in what seemed to be a house owned by a noble family in the late 1700s. I assumed it meant servant. In subsequent generations, the men in my direct paternal line were blacksmiths. Possibly this man also had that occupation, but solely for that noble house.
                              > >
                              > > In my understanding of "serf," that is a person who works land owned by someone else of higher status and would typically have a house to live in and a share of the harvest.
                              > >
                              > > Elaine
                              > >
                              > > On Jun 6, 2013, at 4:02 PM, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > servus : slave, serf.
                              > > > I think in your case it refers to a serf.
                              > > >
                              > > > From: Deborah
                              > > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 1:44 PM
                              > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > Subject: [S-R] translation help
                              > > >
                              > > > I am trying to find out the correct translation of the parent of Jacobus
                              > > > Csutek, # 77, and what it is saying about her parents. When I Google
                              > > > Translated "servilus", it says slave. Was this some kind of indentured
                              > > > servitude?
                              > > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443&\
                              > > > wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403
                              > > > <https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443\
                              > > > &wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403>
                              > > > Anna was 27 at the time, and shortly after she left to the States,
                              > > > leaving Jacob behind until he was 19. She had already married in
                              > > > Pennsylvania and had a large family before he ever came over. I am
                              > > > trying to figure out the story behind this and I am going crazy already.
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • MGMojher
                              If your G-Grandfather came over in the 1880’s he would have come though Castle Gardens, the precursor to Ellis Island. The Castle Garden records were
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jun 7, 2013
                                If your G-Grandfather came over in the 1880’s he would have come though Castle Gardens, the precursor to Ellis Island. The Castle Garden records were transferred to Ellis Island. Then the fire happened about 1895. A lot of the Castle Garden records were destroyed. If you go to Ancestry.com you can search what remains of those records, but you have to be a member, I am. Give me his name and I will see what I can find.

                                There were “commuters” from Hungary to America. They would return home and after a year or two come back. My cousins in Slovakia said they knew that their G-grandfather did three stints in America. I recall reading that the cost of a ticket was about $17 in steerage. To us sounds incredibly inexpensive, but in the 1800’s a peasant had to be very frugal to save that amount up. “Hourly rates high/low, normalized into US Dollars, 1873 to 1898: Eastern Europe: 1-3 cents.” $17 at those wages took 1700 to 567 hours. A 10 hour day meant 170 to 57 days of work. The number of days a peasant worked for the “lord of the manor” and got paid ranged between 14 and 40 days a year. That is why so many Slovaks became migrant works. They could not survive on the cash they earned locally.
                                One of the questions asked at Ellis Island was, Do you have a job in America? If you answered yes you could be refused entry. By law businesses were not allowed to recruit employees. The agents for the shipping companies literally handed the immigrants from agent to agent until they reached the ship. It appeared there was some cooperate collusion going on to keep the ticket prices low and make sure the immigrants got to the ship.
                                From: bassfantastic
                                Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 10:01 AM
                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [S-R] translation help


                                I find this information interesting about immigration. On the Petition for Citizenship, form my husband's G Grandfather, it says he came here in 1880. However, I never found a passenger list. However, his wife and living children came in 1903. And, they had 6 kids born in Natafalva between 1880 & 1903 so I would have to assume that the father must have either been mistaken on his Petition or he went back and forth. Was travel expensive?

                                --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Deborah,
                                > On March 15, 1848: The Hungarian Diet passed The March Laws, by which serfdom was abolished. Being a peasant was not much better than being a serf economically in 1892.
                                > The Latin word servus is the root to the English word serve. So, while neither slave nor serf, the peasants had duties or goods that they paid to rent homes, land or both. The Slovak peasants as early as the 1400’s became the migrant works of Europe. They couldn’t survive without going elsewhere to earn money. By the 1800’s coming to America became cheap enough for them to come and work in America. Not being serfs they could stay on. My own great-grandfather came in the 1880’s and worked for three years. The goal was to earn the “Golden $1000” so they could return home, buy land and live comfortably the rest of their lives. That is why Slovaks had the second highest return rate from America after the Hungarians, over 50%.

                                >





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • bassfantastic
                                I have looked at Castle Garden and Ellis Island with no luck. Feel free to see if you can find it. Here is a link to the Declaration
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jun 7, 2013
                                  I have looked at Castle Garden and Ellis Island with no luck. Feel free to see if you can find it. Here is a link to the Declaration
                                  http://www.breny.com/pics/declarationofintention_michaelmiklos.jpg
                                  I'm not sure why he spelled his name like that. The name was Nicholas Misko in Austria or I've seen Miklos Misko. But I'm 99% sure that this is him due to the "Forbes Road" as that is where he lived and he did use the first name Mike many times after arriving here. He was a miner.

                                  Also, here is his son's Declaration, my husband's Grandfather:
                                  http://www.breny.com/pics/declarationofintention_petemiklish.jpg
                                  As you can see he has 1902 but I did find his passenger list and it was actually 1903 as shown here in the first record with his mother Anna and sister Mary and brother Nicholas.
                                  http://www.breny.com/pics/passengerlist_anna_mary_peter_nicholas_1903.jpg

                                  Anna & Nicholas had children in 1885, 1886, 1893, 1897 & 1899 in Austria so if the father came here first in 1880, he must have been back and forth to father these children.


                                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > If your G-Grandfather came over in the 1880’s he would have come though Castle Gardens, the precursor to Ellis Island. The Castle Garden records were transferred to Ellis Island. Then the fire happened about 1895. A lot of the Castle Garden records were destroyed. If you go to Ancestry.com you can search what remains of those records, but you have to be a member, I am. Give me his name and I will see what I can find.
                                  >
                                  > There were “commuters” from Hungary to America. They would return home and after a year or two come back. My cousins in Slovakia said they knew that their G-grandfather did three stints in America. I recall reading that the cost of a ticket was about $17 in steerage. To us sounds incredibly inexpensive, but in the 1800’s a peasant had to be very frugal to save that amount up. “Hourly rates high/low, normalized into US Dollars, 1873 to 1898: Eastern Europe: 1-3 cents.” $17 at those wages took 1700 to 567 hours. A 10 hour day meant 170 to 57 days of work. The number of days a peasant worked for the “lord of the manor” and got paid ranged between 14 and 40 days a year. That is why so many Slovaks became migrant works. They could not survive on the cash they earned locally.
                                  > One of the questions asked at Ellis Island was, Do you have a job in America? If you answered yes you could be refused entry. By law businesses were not allowed to recruit employees. The agents for the shipping companies literally handed the immigrants from agent to agent until they reached the ship. It appeared there was some cooperate collusion going on to keep the ticket prices low and make sure the immigrants got to the ship.
                                • MGMojher
                                  Nacina Ves MI/KI zemplín. 1773 Natafalva, Naczina Wes, 1786 Natafalwa, Nacsina Wes, 1808 Nátafalva, Náthafalva, Nacyná Wes, Natiná Wes, 1863–1913
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jun 7, 2013
                                    Nacina Ves MI/KI zemplín.
                                    1773 Natafalva, Naczina Wes, 1786 Natafalwa, Nacsina Wes, 1808 Nátafalva, Náthafalva, Nacyná Wes, Natiná Wes, 1863–1913 Nátafalva, 1920– Nacina Ves

                                    Natafalva is now Nacina Ves in the orkes/district of Michalovce in far Eastern Slovakia.

                                    In the late 1800’s Magyarization policy where in all records only Hungarian can be used caused Slovak surnames and given names to be given a Hungarian spelling. So, do not be surprised you may find those names to be spelled different prior to Magyarization.

                                    Peter “Americanized” Miklos to Miklish.

                                    Mikulas is Slovak for Nicholas. The pronunciation of Mikulas is close enough to Mike to not be surprised that he used that in the USA. Mikulas Miklos would be almost like saying his name was Nicholas Nicholas. Because Miklos is Hungarian for Nicholas. If you saw the surname as Misko, I would suspect that is probably the original before Magyarization.

                                    It appears that “Mike” was a “commuter” to the USA. The Ship’s Manifest had the children’s ages as 15, 9.5 and 3.5. That gaps between Maria and Peter and Miklos seems to show that “Mike” seems to have made three trips to America. On the third he stayed permanently. Normally, you would see children every year or two, so to have such gaps between children makes one suspect two trips back home from America.

                                    From: bassfantastic
                                    Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 4:02 PM
                                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [S-R] Re: translation help


                                    I have looked at Castle Garden and Ellis Island with no luck. Feel free to see if you can find it. Here is a link to the Declaration
                                    http://www.breny.com/pics/declarationofintention_michaelmiklos.jpg
                                    I'm not sure why he spelled his name like that. The name was Nicholas Misko in Austria or I've seen Miklos Misko. But I'm 99% sure that this is him due to the "Forbes Road" as that is where he lived and he did use the first name Mike many times after arriving here. He was a miner.

                                    Also, here is his son's Declaration, my husband's Grandfather:
                                    http://www.breny.com/pics/declarationofintention_petemiklish.jpg
                                    As you can see he has 1902 but I did find his passenger list and it was actually 1903 as shown here in the first record with his mother Anna and sister Mary and brother Nicholas.
                                    http://www.breny.com/pics/passengerlist_anna_mary_peter_nicholas_1903.jpg

                                    Anna & Nicholas had children in 1885, 1886, 1893, 1897 & 1899 in Austria so if the father came here first in 1880, he must have been back and forth to father these children.

                                    --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > If your G-Grandfather came over in the 1880’s he would have come though Castle Gardens, the precursor to Ellis Island. The Castle Garden records were transferred to Ellis Island. Then the fire happened about 1895. A lot of the Castle Garden records were destroyed. If you go to Ancestry.com you can search what remains of those records, but you have to be a member, I am. Give me his name and I will see what I can find.
                                    >
                                    > There were “commuters” from Hungary to America. They would return home and after a year or two come back. My cousins in Slovakia said they knew that their G-grandfather did three stints in America. I recall reading that the cost of a ticket was about $17 in steerage. To us sounds incredibly inexpensive, but in the 1800’s a peasant had to be very frugal to save that amount up. “Hourly rates high/low, normalized into US Dollars, 1873 to 1898: Eastern Europe: 1-3 cents.” $17 at those wages took 1700 to 567 hours. A 10 hour day meant 170 to 57 days of work. The number of days a peasant worked for the “lord of the manor” and got paid ranged between 14 and 40 days a year. That is why so many Slovaks became migrant works. They could not survive on the cash they earned locally.
                                    > One of the questions asked at Ellis Island was, Do you have a job in America? If you answered yes you could be refused entry. By law businesses were not allowed to recruit employees. The agents for the shipping companies literally handed the immigrants from agent to agent until they reached the ship. It appeared there was some cooperate collusion going on to keep the ticket prices low and make sure the immigrants got to the ship.





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