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Re: [S-R] Re: Flutha, Neograd & Kriz, Hungary

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  • Sharon Pletz
    Thank you so much for the assistance, the spelling and name variations on these documents are really messed up, so the location names will be as bad I am sure.
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 6, 2001
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      Thank you so much for the assistance, the spelling and name variations
      on these documents are really messed up, so the location names will be
      as bad I am sure. Is it possible that Flutha and our Huta are the same
      place? Would one sound like the other? They had PLES on one and PLECZ on
      the other, both should be PLETZ, someone answered an earlier post to me
      indicating that PLECZ would be a variation to watch for and he was so
      right. We were always led to believe they were Czechoslovakian but since
      we have started the research we have discovered that it is a german
      name. Until we find their birth cert. we will not know for sure what
      name they left Hungary with. It was very good work on the person
      searching to pick them up. I am first giving what we had and then copied
      what we recieved from the church. I am amazed at how you are able to
      sort this out, and always be of so much help, Thanks again.

      Sharon Pletz

      John PLETZ Son of Ferdinand & Barbara & Mary SOPKO dau. of Andrew &
      Marie. John spoke of Huta as his home.

      Frank PLETZ same parents & Ludmelia RANKEL dau. of Michael
      -------------------------------------------------------------------
      From the records of St. Adalbert Church, South Side, Pittsburgh, PA

      On November 5, 1887, John Plecz, 24 years of age, born Flutha
      (Neograd(?)) Hungaria, son of the late Ferdinand Plecz and Barbara
      Dombrowska, married Maria Sobek, 21(?) years of age, born Giertachowa
      (Szaryjska) Ungeria, daughter of Andreas Sobek and Maria Cierski.
      Witnesses: Michael Buczko and John.

      From the records of St. Stanislaus Kostka Church, Strip District,
      Pittsburgh, PA

      Francis Ples, born Kriz, Hung., son of Ferdinand Ples and Barbara
      Dabrowska, married Ludmilla Rankel, born Krize, daughter of Michael
      Rankel and Josepha Pepi. Witnesses: Georg Nozhal and John Brushwalski.



      frankly1us wrote:
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., Sharon Pletz <ejay@s...> wrote:
      > > Hi, you have all been so helpful in the past and now I am hoping you are
      > > able to help again. Another family member has located the marriage
      > > records of our elders and we are not sure where to look next. The birth
      > > places were given on the marriage records are as follows and I have
      > > given what the US census had recorded as well just in case it will help:
      > >
      > > Flutha, Neograd, Hungaria (US Census gave Nograt, Hungary)
      > > Giertachowa(Szaryjska)Ungeria (Us Census gave Sariska, Hungary)
      > > Kriz, Hungary (no census records)
      > > Krize (no census records)
      > >
      > > Is Kriz and Krize the same location? I got different responses from the
      > > LDS search. The fellow born in Kriz is a brother to the one born in
      > > Flutha. Thankyou for any info you may be able to give. I have not been
      > > able to access this site tonight, not sure why.
      > > http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm
      > >
      > > Sharon Pletz
      >
      > U.S. Census takers were white Anglo males who spoke no foreign
      > languages (until 1920 U.S. Census when some women with Slavic
      > surnames were hired)
      > Emigrants often knew no English.
      >
      > This is how I read your information.
      > The old Hungarian county was called Sáros megye.
      > In Slovak this later became S^aris^ z^upa (county)
      >
      > S^aris^ská/S^aris^ské/S^aris^sky' is Slovak grammar.
      >
      > Szaryjska look almost like a Polish word ?
      > So does Giertachowa.
      > Hungarian and Slovak don't use the letter w.
      > In Polish and German the letter w is pron. v.
      >
      > Kríz^e (Sk) Krizse (H) is located 200 miles ENE of Bratislava and
      > 6 miles WSW of Bardejov (Sk) Bártfa (H) Bartfeld (G)
      > Kríz^ = cross in Slovak
      > kereszt = cross in Magyar
      >
      > A Fric^ka (Sk) Fricska (H) is located 10 miles distant.
      > Gerlachov (Sk) Gerlachó (H) is located 6 miles from Fricka.
      > Close to the current Polish border.
      >
      > The LDS filmed the G.C. parish church records for Kríz^e (1789-1895)
      > Listed under Livov.
      >
      > The LDS filmed the G.C. parish church records for Fric^ka (1781-1851)
      > (1857-1895)
      > Listed under Petrová.
      >
      > R.C. parish church records for Fric^ka (1800-1895) are listed
      > under Gaboltov.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • John
      At 09:01 PM 12/6/01 +0000, you wrote: It looks like Frank has you zeroed in on the location you re interested in. All the villages are located in the same
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 6, 2001
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        At 09:01 PM 12/6/01 +0000, you wrote:

        It looks like Frank has you zeroed in on the location you're interested
        in. All the villages are located in the same general area to the west of
        Bardejov running in a line from Fric^ka in the north to Krize in the
        south. My mother's village was Kriz^e and my wife's maternal grandparents
        were from Gerlachov. Giertachowa (Szaryjska) could very well be
        Gerlachov, Saris written by someone with a Polish ear. Gerlachowce was one
        of the names for the town in 1808. A baptismal record for an aunt that was
        born in Houtzdale has the Rusyn surname spelled phonetically in Polish
        because the parish priest was Polish. It was difficult to recognize as
        their surname. Several from Gerlachov emigrated to the Houtzdale, Ramey
        area in Clearfield county, PA.

        I have the films for Krize and Gerlachov on permanent loan. I also have a
        first cousin living in Kriz^e. If you're interested, let me have some
        additional information and I'll try to do a lookup. I may be able to
        recognize the surname just from researching the records and hearing the
        surnames while growing up in Ohio.

        John

        >--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., Sharon Pletz <ejay@s...> wrote:
        > > Hi, you have all been so helpful in the past and now I am hoping you are
        > > able to help again. Another family member has located the marriage
        > > records of our elders and we are not sure where to look next. The birth
        > > places were given on the marriage records are as follows and I have
        > > given what the US census had recorded as well just in case it will help:
        > >
        > > Flutha, Neograd, Hungaria (US Census gave Nograt, Hungary)
        > > Giertachowa(Szaryjska)Ungeria (Us Census gave Sariska, Hungary)
        > > Kriz, Hungary (no census records)
        > > Krize (no census records)
        > >
        > > Is Kriz and Krize the same location? I got different responses from the
        > > LDS search. The fellow born in Kriz is a brother to the one born in
        > > Flutha. Thankyou for any info you may be able to give. I have not been
        > > able to access this site tonight, not sure why.
        > > http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm
        > >
        > > Sharon Pletz
        >
        >
        >U.S. Census takers were white Anglo males who spoke no foreign
        >languages (until 1920 U.S. Census when some women with Slavic
        >surnames were hired)
        >Emigrants often knew no English.
        >
        >This is how I read your information.
        >The old Hungarian county was called Sáros megye.
        >In Slovak this later became S^aris^ z^upa (county)
        >
        >S^aris^ská/S^aris^ské/S^aris^sky' is Slovak grammar.
        >
        >Szaryjska look almost like a Polish word ?
        >So does Giertachowa.
        >Hungarian and Slovak don't use the letter w.
        >In Polish and German the letter w is pron. v.
        >
        >Kríz^e (Sk) Krizse (H) is located 200 miles ENE of Bratislava and
        >6 miles WSW of Bardejov (Sk) Bártfa (H) Bartfeld (G)
        >Kríz^ = cross in Slovak
        >kereszt = cross in Magyar
        >
        >A Fric^ka (Sk) Fricska (H) is located 10 miles distant.
        >Gerlachov (Sk) Gerlachó (H) is located 6 miles from Fricka.
        >Close to the current Polish border.
        >
        >The LDS filmed the G.C. parish church records for Kríz^e (1789-1895)
        >Listed under Livov.
        >
        >The LDS filmed the G.C. parish church records for Fric^ka (1781-1851)
        >(1857-1895)
        >Listed under Petrová.
        >
        >R.C. parish church records for Fric^ka (1800-1895) are listed
        >under Gaboltov.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Sharon Pletz
        John you are a wonderful, you are always so willing, and always sharing your wisdom. I posted the info on my previous reply, hate to do it again and create
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 6, 2001
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          John you are a wonderful, you are always so willing, and always sharing
          your wisdom. I posted the info on my previous reply, hate to do it again
          and create more email for the list. Thanks once again.

          Sharon

          John wrote:
          >
          > At 09:01 PM 12/6/01 +0000, you wrote:
          >
          > It looks like Frank has you zeroed in on the location you're interested
          > in. All the villages are located in the same general area to the west of
          > Bardejov running in a line from Fric^ka in the north to Krize in the
          > south. My mother's village was Kriz^e and my wife's maternal grandparents
          > were from Gerlachov. Giertachowa (Szaryjska) could very well be
          > Gerlachov, Saris written by someone with a Polish ear. Gerlachowce was one
          > of the names for the town in 1808. A baptismal record for an aunt that was
          > born in Houtzdale has the Rusyn surname spelled phonetically in Polish
          > because the parish priest was Polish. It was difficult to recognize as
          > their surname. Several from Gerlachov emigrated to the Houtzdale, Ramey
          > area in Clearfield county, PA.
          >
          > I have the films for Krize and Gerlachov on permanent loan. I also have a
          > first cousin living in Kriz^e. If you're interested, let me have some
          > additional information and I'll try to do a lookup. I may be able to
          > recognize the surname just from researching the records and hearing the
          > surnames while growing up in Ohio.
          >
          > John
          >
          > >--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., Sharon Pletz <ejay@s...> wrote:
          > > > Hi, you have all been so helpful in the past and now I am hoping you are
          > > > able to help again. Another family member has located the marriage
          > > > records of our elders and we are not sure where to look next. The birth
          > > > places were given on the marriage records are as follows and I have
          > > > given what the US census had recorded as well just in case it will help:
          > > >
          > > > Flutha, Neograd, Hungaria (US Census gave Nograt, Hungary)
          > > > Giertachowa(Szaryjska)Ungeria (Us Census gave Sariska, Hungary)
          > > > Kriz, Hungary (no census records)
          > > > Krize (no census records)
          > > >
          > > > Is Kriz and Krize the same location? I got different responses from the
          > > > LDS search. The fellow born in Kriz is a brother to the one born in
          > > > Flutha. Thankyou for any info you may be able to give. I have not been
          > > > able to access this site tonight, not sure why.
          > > > http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm
          > > >
          > > > Sharon Pletz
          > >
          > >
          > >U.S. Census takers were white Anglo males who spoke no foreign
          > >languages (until 1920 U.S. Census when some women with Slavic
          > >surnames were hired)
          > >Emigrants often knew no English.
          > >
          > >This is how I read your information.
          > >The old Hungarian county was called Sáros megye.
          > >In Slovak this later became S^aris^ z^upa (county)
          > >
          > >S^aris^ská/S^aris^ské/S^aris^sky' is Slovak grammar.
          > >
          > >Szaryjska look almost like a Polish word ?
          > >So does Giertachowa.
          > >Hungarian and Slovak don't use the letter w.
          > >In Polish and German the letter w is pron. v.
          > >
          > >Kríz^e (Sk) Krizse (H) is located 200 miles ENE of Bratislava and
          > >6 miles WSW of Bardejov (Sk) Bártfa (H) Bartfeld (G)
          > >Kríz^ = cross in Slovak
          > >kereszt = cross in Magyar
          > >
          > >A Fric^ka (Sk) Fricska (H) is located 10 miles distant.
          > >Gerlachov (Sk) Gerlachó (H) is located 6 miles from Fricka.
          > >Close to the current Polish border.
          > >
          > >The LDS filmed the G.C. parish church records for Kríz^e (1789-1895)
          > >Listed under Livov.
          > >
          > >The LDS filmed the G.C. parish church records for Fric^ka (1781-1851)
          > >(1857-1895)
          > >Listed under Petrová.
          > >
          > >R.C. parish church records for Fric^ka (1800-1895) are listed
          > >under Gaboltov.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • John
          ... I recalled from my visit that the town of Kruz^lova just north of Kriz^e also had a glass factory. I ve never heard of Krize being given the Huta suffix
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 6, 2001
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            At 07:54 PM 12/6/01 -0600, you wrote:
            >I posted the info on my previous reply, hate to do it again
            >and create more email for the list. Thanks once again.
            >
            >Sharon

            I recalled from my visit that the town of Kruz^lova just north of Kriz^e
            also had a glass factory. I've never heard of Krize being given the Huta
            suffix but I was told Kruz^lova about 4 miles north of Krize had an
            adjacent village just north of it called Kruz^lovska Huta , so I checked
            and found:

            Anna Pletzová
            2, Kruz^lovská Huta
            054/4795158

            John
          • John
            ... This might help confirm the Gerlachov hypothesis. I found a Marián Sobek, Gerlachov in the SK directory and from past research of Gerlachov films and I
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 6, 2001
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              At 07:37 PM 12/6/01 -0600, you wrote:
              >-------------------------------------------------------------------
              > From the records of St. Adalbert Church, South Side, Pittsburgh, PA
              >
              >On November 5, 1887, John Plecz, 24 years of age, born Flutha
              >(Neograd(?)) Hungaria, son of the late Ferdinand Plecz and Barbara
              >Dombrowska, married Maria Sobek, 21(?) years of age, born Giertachowa
              >(Szaryjska) Ungeria, daughter of Andreas Sobek and Maria Cierski.
              >Witnesses: Michael Buczko and John.

              This might help confirm the Gerlachov hypothesis. I found a Marián Sobek,
              Gerlachov in the SK directory and from past research of Gerlachov films and
              I know that Buczko (currently 5 Buc^ko are listed in the Gerlachov
              directory) can be found in Gerlachov. Kruz^lovska Huta is about a mile and
              a half west of Gerlachov. I found the post 1895 records for Gerlachov in
              Malcov a few miles to the west of Gerlachov. The pre 1895 records can be
              found at the LDS FHL:

              http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*%2C180%2C0&titleno=733824&disp=Cirkevn%E1_matrika

              The records of Kruzlovska Huta should be with the Kruzlov (I made a mistake
              and referred to it as Kruzlova in the last post) records because they are
              only a quarter mile apart. The Kruzlov records are at:

              http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*%2C180%2C0&titleno=729700&disp=Cirkevn%E1_matrika

              The current (>1895) records are probably housed in Bardejov. I found the
              post 1895 records for Kri^ze in Bardejov.

              > From the records of St. Stanislaus Kostka Church, Strip District,
              > Pittsburgh, PA
              >
              >Francis Ples, born Kriz, Hung., son of Ferdinand Ples and Barbara
              >Dabrowska, married Ludmilla Rankel, born Krize, daughter of Michael
              >Rankel and Josepha Pepi. Witnesses: Georg Nozhal and John Brushwalski.

              I'm not familiar with any of the names above except I think I recall a
              Rankel for some reason. There are Rohals in Krize and other villages in
              the area but I haven't seen a Nozhal. I'll have to check the films for
              these names.

              John
            • Sharon Pletz
              Thank you John, you have no idea how excited we are to think that we may finally crash this wall, until now we could not find anything with the actual town
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 6, 2001
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                Thank you John, you have no idea how excited we are to think that we may
                finally crash this wall, until now we could not find anything with the
                actual town being named, only approx. areas, I could never have found
                all this without you and John. I hope I am able to return the favor
                someday. I have a lot of genealogy software and micro fiche so drop me a
                line to see if I am able to help you, it is mostly for the UK and US.
                Then you never know when you may need help in Canada either. Thanks

                Sharon

                John wrote:
                >
                > At 07:37 PM 12/6/01 -0600, you wrote:
                > >-------------------------------------------------------------------
                > > From the records of St. Adalbert Church, South Side, Pittsburgh, PA
                > >
                > >On November 5, 1887, John Plecz, 24 years of age, born Flutha
                > >(Neograd(?)) Hungaria, son of the late Ferdinand Plecz and Barbara
                > >Dombrowska, married Maria Sobek, 21(?) years of age, born Giertachowa
                > >(Szaryjska) Ungeria, daughter of Andreas Sobek and Maria Cierski.
                > >Witnesses: Michael Buczko and John.
                >
                > This might help confirm the Gerlachov hypothesis. I found a Marián Sobek,
                > Gerlachov in the SK directory and from past research of Gerlachov films and
                > I know that Buczko (currently 5 Buc^ko are listed in the Gerlachov
                > directory) can be found in Gerlachov. Kruz^lovska Huta is about a mile and
                > a half west of Gerlachov. I found the post 1895 records for Gerlachov in
                > Malcov a few miles to the west of Gerlachov. The pre 1895 records can be
                > found at the LDS FHL:
                >
                > http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*%2C180%2C0&titleno=733824&disp=Cirkevn%E1_matrika
                >
                > The records of Kruzlovska Huta should be with the Kruzlov (I made a mistake
                > and referred to it as Kruzlova in the last post) records because they are
                > only a quarter mile apart. The Kruzlov records are at:
                >
                > http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*%2C180%2C0&titleno=729700&disp=Cirkevn%E1_matrika
                >
                > The current (>1895) records are probably housed in Bardejov. I found the
                > post 1895 records for Kri^ze in Bardejov.
                >
                > > From the records of St. Stanislaus Kostka Church, Strip District,
                > > Pittsburgh, PA
                > >
                > >Francis Ples, born Kriz, Hung., son of Ferdinand Ples and Barbara
                > >Dabrowska, married Ludmilla Rankel, born Krize, daughter of Michael
                > >Rankel and Josepha Pepi. Witnesses: Georg Nozhal and John Brushwalski.
                >
                > I'm not familiar with any of the names above except I think I recall a
                > Rankel for some reason. There are Rohals in Krize and other villages in
                > the area but I haven't seen a Nozhal. I'll have to check the films for
                > these names.
                >
                > John
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • Sharon Pletz
                Sorry I ment you and Frank, told you I was excited. Sharon
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 6, 2001
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                  Sorry I ment you and Frank, told you I was excited.

                  Sharon

                  Sharon Pletz wrote:
                  >
                  > Thank you John, you have no idea how excited we are to think that we may
                  > finally crash this wall, until now we could not find anything with the
                  > actual town being named, only approx. areas, I could never have found
                  > all this without you and John. I hope I am able to return the favor
                  > someday. I have a lot of genealogy software and micro fiche so drop me a
                  > line to see if I am able to help you, it is mostly for the UK and US.
                  > Then you never know when you may need help in Canada either. Thanks
                  >
                  > Sharon
                  >
                • John
                  ... I found an Anton (40)(wife Maria not emigrating) and Bela Rankel (13) in the EIDB emigrating from Bartha (looks like Bartfa, which is currently Bardejov
                  Message 8 of 12 , Dec 6, 2001
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                    >
                    >Francis Ples, born Kriz, Hung., son of Ferdinand Ples and Barbara
                    >Dabrowska, married Ludmilla Rankel, born Krize, daughter of Michael
                    >Rankel and Josepha Pepi. Witnesses: Georg Nozhal and John Brushwalski.
                    I found an Anton (40)(wife Maria not emigrating) and Bela Rankel (13) in
                    the EIDB emigrating from Bartha (looks like Bartfa, which is currently
                    Bardejov and a few miles NE of Krize) in 1913. My family used to walk to
                    Bardejov from Krize. They were headed for Toronto, Ohio where many of the
                    families from Kriz^e emigrated. As I said in an earlier post, Krize also
                    had a glass factory. Some of the raw materials were brought to Kriz^e from
                    Bardejov by wagon. The Krize area is well forested so the fuel for the
                    huta may have been wood. If I recall correctly, Toronto had a glass or
                    pottery factory.

                    John
                  • Sharon Pletz
                    Yes I am told there was a tile factory that they worked in at Toronto. We were also told that the Rankel family owned a glass factory in the old country, it
                    Message 9 of 12 , Dec 6, 2001
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                      Yes I am told there was a tile factory that they worked in at Toronto.
                      We were also told that the Rankel family owned a glass factory in the
                      old country, it was also indicated that they produced Rankel jars for
                      preserves. We have not been able to confirm any of this. Wouldn't it be
                      wonderful to find it was true, you have given me new hope.
                      This is getting more exciting all the time, it looks like they may have
                      existed after all, I have begun thinking they were dropped from outer
                      space :)) I hope to get to our history center and order some film very
                      soon.

                      John wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > >Francis Ples, born Kriz, Hung., son of Ferdinand Ples and Barbara
                      > >Dabrowska, married Ludmilla Rankel, born Krize, daughter of Michael
                      > >Rankel and Josepha Pepi. Witnesses: Georg Nozhal and John Brushwalski.
                      > I found an Anton (40)(wife Maria not emigrating) and Bela Rankel (13) in
                      > the EIDB emigrating from Bartha (looks like Bartfa, which is currently
                      > Bardejov and a few miles NE of Krize) in 1913. My family used to walk to
                      > Bardejov from Krize. They were headed for Toronto, Ohio where many of the
                      > families from Kriz^e emigrated. As I said in an earlier post, Krize also
                      > had a glass factory. Some of the raw materials were brought to Kriz^e from
                      > Bardejov by wagon. The Krize area is well forested so the fuel for the
                      > huta may have been wood. If I recall correctly, Toronto had a glass or
                      > pottery factory.
                      >
                      > John
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    • John
                      ... I ll write to my cousin in Krize to see if he can find out who owned the glass factory and what the product was. He is in his early seventies so he may
                      Message 10 of 12 , Dec 6, 2001
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                        At 11:47 PM 12/6/01 -0600, you wrote:
                        >Yes I am told there was a tile factory that they worked in at Toronto.
                        >We were also told that the Rankel family owned a glass factory in the
                        >old country, it was also indicated that they produced Rankel jars for
                        >preserves. We have not been able to confirm any of this. Wouldn't it be
                        >wonderful to find it was true, you have given me new hope.
                        >This is getting more exciting all the time, it looks like they may have
                        >existed after all, I have begun thinking they were dropped from outer
                        >space :)) I hope to get to our history center and order some film very
                        >soon.

                        I'll write to my cousin in Krize to see if he can find out who owned the
                        glass factory and what the product was. He is in his early seventies so he
                        may have a recollection of hearing about it. I was taken to the site of
                        the factory south of town and could still see glass fragments on the ground
                        although there was no evidence of any remnants of a structure there. Good
                        luck.

                        John


                        >John wrote:
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > > >Francis Ples, born Kriz, Hung., son of Ferdinand Ples and Barbara
                        > > >Dabrowska, married Ludmilla Rankel, born Krize, daughter of Michael
                        > > >Rankel and Josepha Pepi. Witnesses: Georg Nozhal and John Brushwalski.
                        > > I found an Anton (40)(wife Maria not emigrating) and Bela Rankel (13) in
                        > > the EIDB emigrating from Bartha (looks like Bartfa, which is currently
                        > > Bardejov and a few miles NE of Krize) in 1913. My family used to walk to
                        > > Bardejov from Krize. They were headed for Toronto, Ohio where many of the
                        > > families from Kriz^e emigrated. As I said in an earlier post, Krize also
                        > > had a glass factory. Some of the raw materials were brought to Kriz^e from
                        > > Bardejov by wagon. The Krize area is well forested so the fuel for the
                        > > huta may have been wood. If I recall correctly, Toronto had a glass or
                        > > pottery factory.
                        > >
                        > > John
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
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                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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