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Re: [S-R] Use of 2 Surnames?

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  • Milan Huba
    Yes, of course, and I am sure that there may have been other reasons. In the small villages, half the villagers were at one time related to one another.
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 15, 2001
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      Yes, of course, and I am sure that there may have been other reasons. In
      the small villages, half the villagers were at one time related to one
      another. Many of the surnames and given names were the same. People had to
      use other methods or names to differentiate between two or three peoples who
      happened to have the same name. Your explanation also seems to work..

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Daniel Kisha" <slovakic@...>
      To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 12:03 PM
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Use of 2 Surnames?


      > My information came from a elder (80+) in the village of Zelexnik,
      Slovakia
      >
      > Did you ever stop to think that both our explanations are possible reasons
      > for the middle name.
      >
      > Dan Kisha
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Milan Huba" <illy@...>
      > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 2:08 PM
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Use of 2 Surnames?
      >
      >
      > > The explanation given by Adrian is consistent with what I have learned
      > with
      > > a slight twist. Villages were subdivided into smaller areas called
      > "dvors".
      > > Each dvor consisted of a small cluster of houses usually sharing a
      common
      > > courtyard. The houses within the dvors were usually inhabited by
      families
      > > who were closely related to each other such as siblings or cousins. The
      > > dvors, over a period of time acquired a name, my guess it was the
      surname
      > of
      > > the family that built the first house in the dvor.
      > >
      > > Thus, in Liptovska Luzna where my father was born, there were probably
      50
      > or
      > > more dvors, there was, for example, a Banas dvor, a Valusiak dvor, a
      > Zajac
      > > dvor, a Huba dvor etc. One of my father's materal great-parents was
      born
      > > Jozef Zajac. When Jozef became an adult, for whatever reason, he built
      a
      > > house on an empty spot that was available in the Banas dvor. First he
      was
      > > identified as Jozef Zajac from the Banas dvor. Later Zajac was dropped
      > and
      > > he became known as Jozef Banas. His first (older) children were
      baptised
      > as
      > > Zajac, his later children and all of his grandchildren were baptised as
      > > Banas. On my grandmother's baptismal certificate her father was named
      as
      > > Jozef Zajac-Banas. When she married 17 years later, her name was
      recorded
      > > as Anna Banas. with no mention of the Zajac surname, even though her
      > father
      > > was born a Zajac.
      > >
      > > Thus, the family eventually acquired the surname which was identified
      with
      > > the area (dvor) in which they lived. This would be consistent with
      > Adrian's
      > > explanation of the family adopting the name of the property that the
      > family
      > > aquired although the property was not necessarily always property
      > inherited
      > > from a female ancestor. The property could have been acquired by other
      > > means... although my guess was that Adrian's explanation of inheritance
      > from
      > > a female ancestor was a very common explantion.
      > >
      > > Milan Huba
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: "Andrea Vangor" <drav@...>
      > > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 9:43 PM
      > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Use of 2 Surnames?
      > >
      > >
      > > > I have seen this type of thing in my own family. There it indicated a
      > > > process of surname adoption from a female ancestor. This occurred in
      > some
      > > > cases when a woman inherited property and it was passed down to her
      > > > descendants.
      > > >
      > > > Another possibility is that the man in question was adopted, or his
      > mother
      > > > remarried, or some such thing. I would research his own family tree
      and
      > > see
      > > > what you find in the previous generation or two. In my family, it was
      > the
      > > > grandchildren and later descendants who adopted their grandmother's
      > > surname.
      > > >
      > > > I have also seen cases where a man married a widow and adopted the
      > surname
      > > > of her first husband.
      > > >
      > > > I have not done a great deal of research on this question of surname
      > > > adoption, but believe that it may be an outcome of the peasant system,
      > > > officially abolished in 1848 but lingering on in local customs. Under
      > the
      > > > peasant system, a family did not own property outright, but had a sort
      > of
      > > > title to the use of land based on custom and status. If it was the
      > Vangor
      > > > farm, for example, and a daughter inherited part of the rights to it,
      > then
      > > > her husband's children would take the Vangor surname if they were
      living
      > > > there and working the property.
      > > >
      > > > Keep track of the house numbers in the villages where your people
      > lived --
      > > > these were usually recorded in church documents in the latter part of
      > the
      > > > 19th century. It may explain some of these mysteries to know who was
      > > living
      > > > where.
      > > >
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: <AFe9963285@...>
      > > > To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      > > > Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 6:20 PM
      > > > Subject: [S-R] Use of 2 Surnames?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > > I have the following situation: all events recorded in R.C.
      registers
      > of
      > > > > Vranov Nad Top'lou. The people involved lived in Hencovce
      (Henczocz).
      > > > > Capitalization of names is mine - not in registers. What is the
      > > > significance
      > > > > of PALENCSIK?
      > > > >
      > > > > On 21 November, 1866 Michael TOMASOV aged 35 widower married Anna
      > SIMKO
      > > > > aged 18 single person
      > > > >
      > > > > On 31 August, 1869 a son John was bapt. Parents are recorded as
      Mich.
      > > > TOMASOV
      > > > > and Anna SIMKO
      > > > >
      > > > > On 29 October, 1871 a son Michael was bapt. Parents are recorded as
      > > > Michael
      > > > > TOMASOV and Anna SIMKO
      > > > >
      > > > > On 1 January, 1874 a daughter Maria was bapt. Parents are recorded
      as
      > > > Michael
      > > > > PALENSIK TOMAS and Anna SIMKO
      > > > >
      > > > > On 26 June, 1882 a son John was bapt. Parents are recorded as TOMAS
      > > > PALENCSIK
      > > > > Mihaly and SIMKO Anna
      > > > >
      > > > > On 4 June, 1885 a daughter Helen was bapt. Parents are recorded as
      > TOMAS
      > > > > PALENCSIK Mihaly and SIMKO Anna
      > > > >
      > > > > On 15 September, 1885 the daughter Helen was buried. Parents are
      > > recorded
      > > > as
      > > > > TOMAS PALENCSIK Mihaly and SIMKO Anna.
      > > > >
      > > > > On 21 April, 1886 the wife Anna SIMKO was buried, aged 39. Her
      husbamd
      > > is
      > > > > recorded as TOMAS PALENCSIK Mihaly.
      > > > >
      > > > > I do need to re-check the registers for additional events, but back
      to
      > > my
      > > > > original question. Is PALENCSIK being used to differentiate
      villagers
      > of
      > > > the
      > > > > same first and last name, a mother's maiden name? Perhaps something
      > > > connected
      > > > > with the switch to using Hungarian to keep the registers. Adding
      > > > additional
      > > > > info., there are at least two other TOMAS males appearing in the
      > > registers
      > > > in
      > > > > the 1870's with either a "middle" name PALENCSIK or the note TOMASOV
      > > alias
      > > > > PALENTSIK.
      > > > >
      > > > > Apologies for being long winded, but any thoughts or suggestions
      would
      > > be
      > > > > most appreciated.
      > > > >
      > > > > Adrian Fenton
      > > > > Wexford, PA
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
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