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RE: [S-R] Re : Austria-Hungary or Slovakia /Language

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  • John
    ... The letter j is usually used for y in slavic and other languages (Jan [Yan] = John, jak [yak] = how). That s why I asked. Also, Mon~ak is pronounced
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 3, 2001
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      At 12:01 PM 8/3/01 -0400, you wrote:
      >I have seen the monyak spelled MAnyak and on my great grandfather's
      >petition for naturalization as well as his brothers' it was misspelled as
      >monyah and monjak-but that was in this country-that birth certificate REALLY
      >looks as if the name were Manyak and the maiden name of the mother was
      >Popelicova.

      The letter "j" is usually used for "y" in slavic and other languages (Jan
      [Yan] = John, jak [yak] = how). That's why I asked. Also, Mon~ak is
      pronounced Monyak the "n~" being pronounced like in Spanish (la nin~a = la
      ni-nya). There are Mon~ak in Eastern Slovakia.

      >They came thru Baltimore so I can't even check ellisisland.org.

      You can check the Baltimore arrivals through NARA and the LDS FHC but it is
      not as convenient. This site provides some good information on how to:

      http://home.att.net/~arnielang/shipgide.html

      >I think they were Greek Orthodox.

      It was probably Greek Catholic or Ukrainian Orthodox. Greek Orthodox is
      actually the Greek church and I think they use Greek in their liturgy. The
      reason for the Greek in Greek Catholic (use(d) old Slavonic language in
      Divine Liturgy) is to distinguish it (Eastern) from the Roman (Western)
      church (use(d) Latin in their Mass). The Ukrainian Orthodox also uses(sd)
      old Slavonic in their liturgy.The Greek Catholic church is now called
      Byzantine (Eastern) Rite Catholic to decrease the confusion.

      http://www.byzcath.org/

      >OH ON RISKO"S SISTER"S NATURALIZATION PAPERS SHE WAS BORN IN Chumalov' and
      >husband was born in Nizny Seliste'Czechoslovakia.

      Nizny Selice was probably spelled phonetically. Nearest I could come to
      that was a a Niz^ny S^ebes^ or Niz^ny Silac^. You might use Mapquest to
      check them out.

      >Bodzer's form says Csumalyava, Austria Hungary

      That's still a mystery to
      me. Try http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm to locate.

      >On the Monyak birth record:
      >Bukovina is spelled Bukovinka

      There is a reference that a town called Bukovinka is S^iatorska' Bukovinka
      but it is located just north of the Hungarian border in Central Slovakia
      south of Radzovce and not in Eastern SK.


      >The form says this:
      >
      >Vytah z matriky narozeni

      Extracted from the birth register (Slovak)

      >Szuletesi anyakonyvi kivonat

      Hungarian I believe. Probably the same as the Slovak translation.

      >There are other words too but they use non english-type letters so I can't
      >even write it for you.

      Might say the same as above. Do you mean the alphabet is different? The
      Rusyns, Ruthenians, Ukrianians used the Cyrillic alphabet which is also
      used by the Russians. If you could scan the document or part of it and
      upload to the file section of S-R, it would allow us to look at it.

      >There is a seal at the bottom but it is a bad copy and I can't make out
      >what it says-that's why I was hoping to fax a copy or mail acopy to
      >someone who might recognize the city it was from.

      Scanning and uploading would be the easiest and allow everyone to take a
      crack at it.

      John
    • Monyak, Stephanie
      ... computer only at work and we don t have scanners. I will e-mail the relative who sent me the copy-perhaps he can scan it and send it to me and then I will
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 3, 2001
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        :(:(:( I don't have a scanner...that's why I am so bummed out-I have a
        computer only at work and we don't have scanners.

        I will e-mail the relative who sent me the copy-perhaps he can scan it and
        send it to me and then I will forward it to the group.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: John [mailto:jmatsko4@...]
        Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:27 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [S-R] Re : Austria-Hungary or Slovakia /Language


        At 12:01 PM 8/3/01 -0400, you wrote:
        >I have seen the monyak spelled MAnyak and on my great grandfather's
        >petition for naturalization as well as his brothers' it was misspelled as
        >monyah and monjak-but that was in this country-that birth certificate
        REALLY
        >looks as if the name were Manyak and the maiden name of the mother was
        >Popelicova.

        The letter "j" is usually used for "y" in slavic and other languages (Jan
        [Yan] = John, jak [yak] = how). That's why I asked. Also, Mon~ak is
        pronounced Monyak the "n~" being pronounced like in Spanish (la nin~a = la
        ni-nya). There are Mon~ak in Eastern Slovakia.

        >They came thru Baltimore so I can't even check ellisisland.org.

        You can check the Baltimore arrivals through NARA and the LDS FHC but it is
        not as convenient. This site provides some good information on how to:

        http://home.att.net/~arnielang/shipgide.html

        >I think they were Greek Orthodox.

        It was probably Greek Catholic or Ukrainian Orthodox. Greek Orthodox is
        actually the Greek church and I think they use Greek in their liturgy. The
        reason for the Greek in Greek Catholic (use(d) old Slavonic language in
        Divine Liturgy) is to distinguish it (Eastern) from the Roman (Western)
        church (use(d) Latin in their Mass). The Ukrainian Orthodox also uses(sd)
        old Slavonic in their liturgy.The Greek Catholic church is now called
        Byzantine (Eastern) Rite Catholic to decrease the confusion.

        http://www.byzcath.org/

        >OH ON RISKO"S SISTER"S NATURALIZATION PAPERS SHE WAS BORN IN Chumalov' and
        >husband was born in Nizny Seliste'Czechoslovakia.

        Nizny Selice was probably spelled phonetically. Nearest I could come to
        that was a a Niz^ny S^ebes^ or Niz^ny Silac^. You might use Mapquest to
        check them out.

        >Bodzer's form says Csumalyava, Austria Hungary

        That's still a mystery to
        me. Try http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm to locate.

        >On the Monyak birth record:
        >Bukovina is spelled Bukovinka

        There is a reference that a town called Bukovinka is S^iatorska' Bukovinka
        but it is located just north of the Hungarian border in Central Slovakia
        south of Radzovce and not in Eastern SK.


        >The form says this:
        >
        >Vytah z matriky narozeni

        Extracted from the birth register (Slovak)

        >Szuletesi anyakonyvi kivonat

        Hungarian I believe. Probably the same as the Slovak translation.

        >There are other words too but they use non english-type letters so I can't
        >even write it for you.

        Might say the same as above. Do you mean the alphabet is different? The
        Rusyns, Ruthenians, Ukrianians used the Cyrillic alphabet which is also
        used by the Russians. If you could scan the document or part of it and
        upload to the file section of S-R, it would allow us to look at it.

        >There is a seal at the bottom but it is a bad copy and I can't make out
        >what it says-that's why I was hoping to fax a copy or mail acopy to
        >someone who might recognize the city it was from.

        Scanning and uploading would be the easiest and allow everyone to take a
        crack at it.

        John







        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • frankur@att.net
        ... a ... it and ... grandfather s ... misspelled as ... certificate ... was ... Chumalov and ... come to ... Mapquest to ... out ... Naturalization papers
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 4, 2001
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          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "Monyak, Stephanie" <monyaksl@m...> wrote:
          > :(:(:( I don't have a scanner...that's why I am so bummed out-I have
          a
          > computer only at work and we don't have scanners.
          >
          > I will e-mail the relative who sent me the copy-perhaps he can scan
          it and
          > send it to me and then I will forward it to the group.
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: John [mailto:jmatsko4@h...]
          > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:27 PM
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@y...
          > Subject: RE: [S-R] Re : Austria-Hungary or Slovakia /Language
          >
          >
          > At 12:01 PM 8/3/01 -0400, you wrote:
          > >I have seen the monyak spelled MAnyak and on my great
          grandfather's
          > >petition for naturalization as well as his brothers' it was
          misspelled as
          > >monyah and monjak-but that was in this country-that birth
          certificate
          > REALLY
          > >looks as if the name were Manyak and the maiden name of the mother
          was
          > >Popelicova.

          > >OH ON RISKO"S SISTER"S NATURALIZATION PAPERS SHE WAS BORN IN
          Chumalov' and
          > >husband was born in Nizny Seliste'Czechoslovakia.
          >
          > Nizny Selice was probably spelled phonetically. Nearest I could
          come to
          > that was a a Niz^ny S^ebes^ or Niz^ny Silac^. You might use
          Mapquest to
          > check them out.
          >
          > >Bodzer's form says Csumalyava, Austria Hungary
          >

          > >The form says this:
          > >
          > >Vytah z matriky narozeni
          >
          > Extracted from the birth register (Slovak)
          >
          > >Szuletesi anyakonyvi kivonat
          >

          > >There is a seal at the bottom but it is a bad copy and I can't make
          out
          > >what it says-that's why I was hoping to fax a copy or mail acopy to
          > >someone who might recognize the city it was from.
          >

          Naturalization papers often contain the same type of spelling errors
          as do the Ellis Island Records.
          Or they revert to 'sounds-like' spellings.

          In Hungarian születési anyakönyvi kivonat = birth certificate

          In Slovak rodny' list = birth certificate

          vytah z matriky narozeni

          Slovak

          vy't'ah = to extract
          z = from

          matriky = parish church records
          Krstení = baptisms (Christenings)
          Sobás^ení = marriages
          Zomrelí = deaths

          narodenie = birth

          As a rule of Slovak grammar, female surnames end in -á, -ská, or -ová.
          The feminine form of the surnames is considered merely a separate form
          of same surname, not a distinct surname in itself.
          If family surname is a noun in form or origin the suffix -ová is added
          to it, i.e., Popelic + ová.


          Hungarian letter cs = Slovak diacritic letter c ^ = ch.
          Expect that Csumalyava actually was Carpatho-Rusyn village C^umal'ovo
          now located in the Ukraine.
          It was formerly located in Subcarpathian Rus' which was part of
          Czechoslovakia only 1920-1938 but part of Hungary from 10th c to 1918.
          Csomanfalva (H) Cumaleve (Ukr) Comal'ovo (Rusyn)
          -falva means village in Hungarian and was often misspelled or
          misread in records.
        • Theresa Lindamood
          Thanks everyone for their help. I have some more stuff to look up now and will probably come back with more questions! Theresa ... Outgoing mail is certified
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 5, 2001
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            Thanks everyone for their help. I have some more stuff to look up now and
            will probably come back with more questions! Theresa



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          • Monyak, Stephanie
            Theresa, I just noticed your last name-my friend works at lindamood in California-you aren t related to them are you? ... From: Theresa Lindamood
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 6, 2001
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              Theresa,
              I just noticed your last name-my friend works at lindamood in California-you
              aren't related to them are you?

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Theresa Lindamood [mailto:Kinseeker@...]
              Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 9:16 PM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Re : Austria-Hungary or Slovakia /Language


              Thanks everyone for their help. I have some more stuff to look up now and
              will probably come back with more questions! Theresa



              ---
              Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
              Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
              Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/01





              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Richard D. Custer
              ... said ... Oy vey! Ruthenian, Slovaks, Bukovina, Czechoslovakia, White Russians, Ukrainian Orthodox... So much (mis)information, but nobody got it right...
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 6, 2001
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                >Risko and Bodzer were listed on their declarations of intention were from
                >Drahova, and kevesliget and also Chumalov. Also on the ship manifest it
                said
                >the language for Risko was Ruthenian
                >
                >the Monyak or Manyak name was from 'austria-hungary'and they were called
                >'white russians' one city was Bukavena too.


                Oy vey! Ruthenian, Slovaks, Bukovina, Czechoslovakia, White Russians,
                Ukrainian Orthodox...

                So much (mis)information, but nobody got it right... but like Mighty Mouse,
                "here I come to save the day":

                These places are not in any gazetteers of Slovakia 'cuz they ain't in
                Slovakia. They're in Ukraine. However, they are in that part of Ukraine
                which *used to be* in Czechoslovakia, namely Zakarpattia / Subcarpathian
                Rus'.

                First village mentioned, "Drahova" is Drahovo, Maramaros County, Hungary,
                now Khustskyj Rajon [Khust District], Zakarpatska Oblast [Transcarpathian
                Region], Ukraine.

                Kevesliget should be Kovesliget, which is now Drahovo as above.

                Chumalov was Csomanfalva, Chumaleve or Chumal'ovo, Maramaros County,
                Hungary, now Khustskyj Rajon [Khust District], Zakarpatska Oblast
                [Transcarpathian Region], Ukraine.

                >OH ON RISKO"S SISTER"S NATURALIZATION PAPERS SHE WAS BORN IN Chumalov' and
                >husband was born in Nizny Seliste'Czechoslovakia.
                >Bodzer's form says Csumalyava, Austria Hungary

                Nizny Seliste should be Nyzhnje Selyshche, Maramaros County, Hungary, now
                Khustskyj Rajon [Khust District], Zakarpatska Oblast [Transcarpathian
                Region], Ukraine.

                Csumalyava as above is Chumal'ovo / Chumaleve.

                All these villages are adjacent, within a few miles of each other. They
                appear on this map segment:
                http://www.lemko.org/atlas/Pages/Pg59.html
                In the lower third of the map, look just east of the red blotch, the city of
                Khust (XYCT). They're all along the same road: Nyzhnje Selyshche, then the
                road goes east & north to Drahovo, or east and south to Chumal'ovo and
                Krychovo.

                Zakarpatska Oblast was part of Czechoslovakia (the eastern province, known
                as Podkarpatska Rus' or Subcarpathian Rus'/Ruthenia) from ~1920 until 1945
                when it was given to the Soviet Union.

                There were dozens of families who settled in the Brownsville, PA area from
                these villages. Also in Vintondale, PA (Indiana County). They were
                Byzantine/Greek Catholics when they came to the USA but most became
                [Russian] Orthodox here.

                I have data on all marriages of Rusyns who lived in Brownsville, PA vicinity
                through ~1915 whether Greek Catholic or Orthodox. First Rusyn church in
                Brownsville was St. Nicholas Greek Catholic (1911). Before that they
                attended Holy Ghost Greek Catholic in Charleroi (1899). Some who converted
                to Orthodoxy attended Holy Trinity Russian Orthodox in Charleroi (1901) and
                later Holy Resurrection Russian Orthodox in West Brownsville (1915). There
                were no Ukrainian Catholic or Ukrainian Orthodox churches in this part of
                the Monongahela River valley -- but these people were not Ukrainians in the
                first place, so you need not be concerned with finding a Ukrainian Orthodox
                church for your research.

                I have the same info for Vintondale.

                Nothing of all this has anything to do with Slovaks, Slovakia, etc. Try
                these sites:
                www.carpatho-rusyn.org
                www.carpathorusynsociety.org
                or the "Rusyns" list at topica.com .

                If you have questions about the data I have, please email me privately, as
                this is a Slovak list.

                RDC
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