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RE: [S-R] Re : Austria-Hungary or Slovakia /Language

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  • John
    ... Dargov, which was known as Drahov for the years 1948-1964 is about 12 miles east of Kos^ice and in an area that I believe would fall into the Ruthenian
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 3 8:32 AM
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      At 08:14 AM 8/3/01 -0400, you wrote:
      >Risko and Bodzer were listed on their declarations of intention were from
      >Drahova, and kevesliget and also Chumalov. Also on the ship manifest it said
      >the language for Risko was Ruthenian

      Dargov, which was known as Drahov for the years 1948-1964 is about 12 miles
      east of Kos^ice and in an area that I believe would fall into the Ruthenian
      category. There are a few Ris^ko (Rishko) in the Kos^ice phone directory.

      >the Monyak or Manyak name was from 'austria-hungary'and they were called
      >'white russians' one city was Bukavena too.

      Bukavena - There are 3 Bukovina in Slovakia, several in the Czech
      Republic, Poland, etc.. I've heard the term "White Russians" (Bela Rus a
      country west of Russia and north of Ukraine) used by some families to
      distinguish themselves from "Red Russians" (the bad guys) when they were
      actually Rusyns, Ruthenians, Pod Karpatski Rus, etc.. Normally first
      generation immigrants married in Europe and if not, they emigrated to areas
      where their families, neighbors and neighboring villagers emigrated
      to. They would then most likely marry into the same culture (religion,
      language, etc.). What I'm saying is there is a good likelihood that all
      were from the area now located in NE Slovakia, SE Poland, W Ukraine. If
      they were from SE Poland it probably would have been written as
      Bukowina. There is a Bukowina located just north of the Slovak border
      about 20 miles east of Stara Lubovna in an area that would have been
      considered to be Rusyn.

      Do you know what religion they were. That would be helpful. My s-i-l's
      family believed their grandfather was Bohemian but as I found out, he was
      Greek Catholic, Rusyn, and from NE Slovakia. Frank K may have a better
      handle on this. I couldn't locate some of the towns you mentioned.
      *****
      Just read your post about their religion. Ukrainian Orthodox is
      essentially the same as Greek Catholic but they were not reunited with the
      Roman Catholic church. This would indicate they were Ruthenian. Were the
      Monyak, Manyak also U.O.? Did you ever see their name spelled Monjak or
      Manjak?

      John
    • Monyak, Stephanie
      I have seen the monyak spelled MAnyak and on my great grandfather s petition for naturalization as well as his brothers it was misspelled as monyah and
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 3 9:01 AM
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        I have seen the monyak spelled MAnyak and on my great grandfather's
        petition for naturalization as well as his brothers' it was misspelled as
        monyah and monjak-but that was in this country-that birth certificate REALLY
        looks as if the name were Manyak and the maiden name of the mother was
        Popelicova.
        They came thru Baltimore so I can't even check ellisisland.org.
        I think they were Greek Orthodox.
        OH ON RISKO"S SISTER"S NATURALIZATION PAPERS SHE WAS BORN IN Chumalov' and
        husband was born in Nizny Seliste'Czechoslovakia.
        Bodzer's form says Csumalyava, Austria Hungary

        On the Monyak birth record:
        Bukovina is spelled Bukovinka

        The form says this:

        Vytah z matriky narozeni
        Szuletesi anyakonyvi kivonat

        There are other words too but they use non english-type letters so I can't
        even write it for you.

        There is a seal at the bottom but it is a bad copy and I can't make out what
        it says-that's why I was hoping to fax a copy or mail acopy to someone who
        might recognize the city it was from.
        Another draw back is that may family has been divorced so i never knew any
        of my monyak side except for my dad-and a few internet cousins who sent me
        the birth record.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: John [ mailto:jmatsko4@... <mailto:jmatsko4@...> ]
        Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:33 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [S-R] Re : Austria-Hungary or Slovakia /Language


        At 08:14 AM 8/3/01 -0400, you wrote:
        >Risko and Bodzer were listed on their declarations of intention were from
        >Drahova, and kevesliget and also Chumalov. Also on the ship manifest it
        said
        >the language for Risko was Ruthenian

        Dargov, which was known as Drahov for the years 1948-1964 is about 12 miles
        east of Kos^ice and in an area that I believe would fall into the Ruthenian
        category. There are a few Ris^ko (Rishko) in the Kos^ice phone directory.

        >the Monyak or Manyak name was from 'austria-hungary'and they were called
        >'white russians' one city was Bukavena too.

        Bukavena - There are 3 Bukovina in Slovakia, several in the Czech
        Republic, Poland, etc.. I've heard the term "White Russians" (Bela Rus a
        country west of Russia and north of Ukraine) used by some families to
        distinguish themselves from "Red Russians" (the bad guys) when they were
        actually Rusyns, Ruthenians, Pod Karpatski Rus, etc.. Normally first
        generation immigrants married in Europe and if not, they emigrated to areas
        where their families, neighbors and neighboring villagers emigrated
        to. They would then most likely marry into the same culture (religion,
        language, etc.). What I'm saying is there is a good likelihood that all
        were from the area now located in NE Slovakia, SE Poland, W Ukraine. If
        they were from SE Poland it probably would have been written as
        Bukowina. There is a Bukowina located just north of the Slovak border
        about 20 miles east of Stara Lubovna in an area that would have been
        considered to be Rusyn.

        Do you know what religion they were. That would be helpful. My s-i-l's
        family believed their grandfather was Bohemian but as I found out, he was
        Greek Catholic, Rusyn, and from NE Slovakia. Frank K may have a better
        handle on this. I couldn't locate some of the towns you mentioned.
        *****
        Just read your post about their religion. Ukrainian Orthodox is
        essentially the same as Greek Catholic but they were not reunited with the
        Roman Catholic church. This would indicate they were Ruthenian. Were the
        Monyak, Manyak also U.O.? Did you ever see their name spelled Monjak or
        Manjak?

        John







        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John
        ... The letter j is usually used for y in slavic and other languages (Jan [Yan] = John, jak [yak] = how). That s why I asked. Also, Mon~ak is pronounced
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 3 11:27 AM
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          At 12:01 PM 8/3/01 -0400, you wrote:
          >I have seen the monyak spelled MAnyak and on my great grandfather's
          >petition for naturalization as well as his brothers' it was misspelled as
          >monyah and monjak-but that was in this country-that birth certificate REALLY
          >looks as if the name were Manyak and the maiden name of the mother was
          >Popelicova.

          The letter "j" is usually used for "y" in slavic and other languages (Jan
          [Yan] = John, jak [yak] = how). That's why I asked. Also, Mon~ak is
          pronounced Monyak the "n~" being pronounced like in Spanish (la nin~a = la
          ni-nya). There are Mon~ak in Eastern Slovakia.

          >They came thru Baltimore so I can't even check ellisisland.org.

          You can check the Baltimore arrivals through NARA and the LDS FHC but it is
          not as convenient. This site provides some good information on how to:

          http://home.att.net/~arnielang/shipgide.html

          >I think they were Greek Orthodox.

          It was probably Greek Catholic or Ukrainian Orthodox. Greek Orthodox is
          actually the Greek church and I think they use Greek in their liturgy. The
          reason for the Greek in Greek Catholic (use(d) old Slavonic language in
          Divine Liturgy) is to distinguish it (Eastern) from the Roman (Western)
          church (use(d) Latin in their Mass). The Ukrainian Orthodox also uses(sd)
          old Slavonic in their liturgy.The Greek Catholic church is now called
          Byzantine (Eastern) Rite Catholic to decrease the confusion.

          http://www.byzcath.org/

          >OH ON RISKO"S SISTER"S NATURALIZATION PAPERS SHE WAS BORN IN Chumalov' and
          >husband was born in Nizny Seliste'Czechoslovakia.

          Nizny Selice was probably spelled phonetically. Nearest I could come to
          that was a a Niz^ny S^ebes^ or Niz^ny Silac^. You might use Mapquest to
          check them out.

          >Bodzer's form says Csumalyava, Austria Hungary

          That's still a mystery to
          me. Try http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm to locate.

          >On the Monyak birth record:
          >Bukovina is spelled Bukovinka

          There is a reference that a town called Bukovinka is S^iatorska' Bukovinka
          but it is located just north of the Hungarian border in Central Slovakia
          south of Radzovce and not in Eastern SK.


          >The form says this:
          >
          >Vytah z matriky narozeni

          Extracted from the birth register (Slovak)

          >Szuletesi anyakonyvi kivonat

          Hungarian I believe. Probably the same as the Slovak translation.

          >There are other words too but they use non english-type letters so I can't
          >even write it for you.

          Might say the same as above. Do you mean the alphabet is different? The
          Rusyns, Ruthenians, Ukrianians used the Cyrillic alphabet which is also
          used by the Russians. If you could scan the document or part of it and
          upload to the file section of S-R, it would allow us to look at it.

          >There is a seal at the bottom but it is a bad copy and I can't make out
          >what it says-that's why I was hoping to fax a copy or mail acopy to
          >someone who might recognize the city it was from.

          Scanning and uploading would be the easiest and allow everyone to take a
          crack at it.

          John
        • Monyak, Stephanie
          ... computer only at work and we don t have scanners. I will e-mail the relative who sent me the copy-perhaps he can scan it and send it to me and then I will
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 3 11:40 AM
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            :(:(:( I don't have a scanner...that's why I am so bummed out-I have a
            computer only at work and we don't have scanners.

            I will e-mail the relative who sent me the copy-perhaps he can scan it and
            send it to me and then I will forward it to the group.

            -----Original Message-----
            From: John [mailto:jmatsko4@...]
            Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:27 PM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [S-R] Re : Austria-Hungary or Slovakia /Language


            At 12:01 PM 8/3/01 -0400, you wrote:
            >I have seen the monyak spelled MAnyak and on my great grandfather's
            >petition for naturalization as well as his brothers' it was misspelled as
            >monyah and monjak-but that was in this country-that birth certificate
            REALLY
            >looks as if the name were Manyak and the maiden name of the mother was
            >Popelicova.

            The letter "j" is usually used for "y" in slavic and other languages (Jan
            [Yan] = John, jak [yak] = how). That's why I asked. Also, Mon~ak is
            pronounced Monyak the "n~" being pronounced like in Spanish (la nin~a = la
            ni-nya). There are Mon~ak in Eastern Slovakia.

            >They came thru Baltimore so I can't even check ellisisland.org.

            You can check the Baltimore arrivals through NARA and the LDS FHC but it is
            not as convenient. This site provides some good information on how to:

            http://home.att.net/~arnielang/shipgide.html

            >I think they were Greek Orthodox.

            It was probably Greek Catholic or Ukrainian Orthodox. Greek Orthodox is
            actually the Greek church and I think they use Greek in their liturgy. The
            reason for the Greek in Greek Catholic (use(d) old Slavonic language in
            Divine Liturgy) is to distinguish it (Eastern) from the Roman (Western)
            church (use(d) Latin in their Mass). The Ukrainian Orthodox also uses(sd)
            old Slavonic in their liturgy.The Greek Catholic church is now called
            Byzantine (Eastern) Rite Catholic to decrease the confusion.

            http://www.byzcath.org/

            >OH ON RISKO"S SISTER"S NATURALIZATION PAPERS SHE WAS BORN IN Chumalov' and
            >husband was born in Nizny Seliste'Czechoslovakia.

            Nizny Selice was probably spelled phonetically. Nearest I could come to
            that was a a Niz^ny S^ebes^ or Niz^ny Silac^. You might use Mapquest to
            check them out.

            >Bodzer's form says Csumalyava, Austria Hungary

            That's still a mystery to
            me. Try http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm to locate.

            >On the Monyak birth record:
            >Bukovina is spelled Bukovinka

            There is a reference that a town called Bukovinka is S^iatorska' Bukovinka
            but it is located just north of the Hungarian border in Central Slovakia
            south of Radzovce and not in Eastern SK.


            >The form says this:
            >
            >Vytah z matriky narozeni

            Extracted from the birth register (Slovak)

            >Szuletesi anyakonyvi kivonat

            Hungarian I believe. Probably the same as the Slovak translation.

            >There are other words too but they use non english-type letters so I can't
            >even write it for you.

            Might say the same as above. Do you mean the alphabet is different? The
            Rusyns, Ruthenians, Ukrianians used the Cyrillic alphabet which is also
            used by the Russians. If you could scan the document or part of it and
            upload to the file section of S-R, it would allow us to look at it.

            >There is a seal at the bottom but it is a bad copy and I can't make out
            >what it says-that's why I was hoping to fax a copy or mail acopy to
            >someone who might recognize the city it was from.

            Scanning and uploading would be the easiest and allow everyone to take a
            crack at it.

            John







            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • frankur@att.net
            ... a ... it and ... grandfather s ... misspelled as ... certificate ... was ... Chumalov and ... come to ... Mapquest to ... out ... Naturalization papers
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 4 3:02 AM
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              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "Monyak, Stephanie" <monyaksl@m...> wrote:
              > :(:(:( I don't have a scanner...that's why I am so bummed out-I have
              a
              > computer only at work and we don't have scanners.
              >
              > I will e-mail the relative who sent me the copy-perhaps he can scan
              it and
              > send it to me and then I will forward it to the group.
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: John [mailto:jmatsko4@h...]
              > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:27 PM
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@y...
              > Subject: RE: [S-R] Re : Austria-Hungary or Slovakia /Language
              >
              >
              > At 12:01 PM 8/3/01 -0400, you wrote:
              > >I have seen the monyak spelled MAnyak and on my great
              grandfather's
              > >petition for naturalization as well as his brothers' it was
              misspelled as
              > >monyah and monjak-but that was in this country-that birth
              certificate
              > REALLY
              > >looks as if the name were Manyak and the maiden name of the mother
              was
              > >Popelicova.

              > >OH ON RISKO"S SISTER"S NATURALIZATION PAPERS SHE WAS BORN IN
              Chumalov' and
              > >husband was born in Nizny Seliste'Czechoslovakia.
              >
              > Nizny Selice was probably spelled phonetically. Nearest I could
              come to
              > that was a a Niz^ny S^ebes^ or Niz^ny Silac^. You might use
              Mapquest to
              > check them out.
              >
              > >Bodzer's form says Csumalyava, Austria Hungary
              >

              > >The form says this:
              > >
              > >Vytah z matriky narozeni
              >
              > Extracted from the birth register (Slovak)
              >
              > >Szuletesi anyakonyvi kivonat
              >

              > >There is a seal at the bottom but it is a bad copy and I can't make
              out
              > >what it says-that's why I was hoping to fax a copy or mail acopy to
              > >someone who might recognize the city it was from.
              >

              Naturalization papers often contain the same type of spelling errors
              as do the Ellis Island Records.
              Or they revert to 'sounds-like' spellings.

              In Hungarian születési anyakönyvi kivonat = birth certificate

              In Slovak rodny' list = birth certificate

              vytah z matriky narozeni

              Slovak

              vy't'ah = to extract
              z = from

              matriky = parish church records
              Krstení = baptisms (Christenings)
              Sobás^ení = marriages
              Zomrelí = deaths

              narodenie = birth

              As a rule of Slovak grammar, female surnames end in -á, -ská, or -ová.
              The feminine form of the surnames is considered merely a separate form
              of same surname, not a distinct surname in itself.
              If family surname is a noun in form or origin the suffix -ová is added
              to it, i.e., Popelic + ová.


              Hungarian letter cs = Slovak diacritic letter c ^ = ch.
              Expect that Csumalyava actually was Carpatho-Rusyn village C^umal'ovo
              now located in the Ukraine.
              It was formerly located in Subcarpathian Rus' which was part of
              Czechoslovakia only 1920-1938 but part of Hungary from 10th c to 1918.
              Csomanfalva (H) Cumaleve (Ukr) Comal'ovo (Rusyn)
              -falva means village in Hungarian and was often misspelled or
              misread in records.
            • Theresa Lindamood
              Thanks everyone for their help. I have some more stuff to look up now and will probably come back with more questions! Theresa ... Outgoing mail is certified
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 5 6:15 PM
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                Thanks everyone for their help. I have some more stuff to look up now and
                will probably come back with more questions! Theresa



                ---
                Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
                Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
                Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/01
              • Monyak, Stephanie
                Theresa, I just noticed your last name-my friend works at lindamood in California-you aren t related to them are you? ... From: Theresa Lindamood
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 6 5:54 AM
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                  Theresa,
                  I just noticed your last name-my friend works at lindamood in California-you
                  aren't related to them are you?

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Theresa Lindamood [mailto:Kinseeker@...]
                  Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 9:16 PM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Re : Austria-Hungary or Slovakia /Language


                  Thanks everyone for their help. I have some more stuff to look up now and
                  will probably come back with more questions! Theresa



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                  Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
                  Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
                  Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/01





                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Richard D. Custer
                  ... said ... Oy vey! Ruthenian, Slovaks, Bukovina, Czechoslovakia, White Russians, Ukrainian Orthodox... So much (mis)information, but nobody got it right...
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 6 10:58 PM
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                    >Risko and Bodzer were listed on their declarations of intention were from
                    >Drahova, and kevesliget and also Chumalov. Also on the ship manifest it
                    said
                    >the language for Risko was Ruthenian
                    >
                    >the Monyak or Manyak name was from 'austria-hungary'and they were called
                    >'white russians' one city was Bukavena too.


                    Oy vey! Ruthenian, Slovaks, Bukovina, Czechoslovakia, White Russians,
                    Ukrainian Orthodox...

                    So much (mis)information, but nobody got it right... but like Mighty Mouse,
                    "here I come to save the day":

                    These places are not in any gazetteers of Slovakia 'cuz they ain't in
                    Slovakia. They're in Ukraine. However, they are in that part of Ukraine
                    which *used to be* in Czechoslovakia, namely Zakarpattia / Subcarpathian
                    Rus'.

                    First village mentioned, "Drahova" is Drahovo, Maramaros County, Hungary,
                    now Khustskyj Rajon [Khust District], Zakarpatska Oblast [Transcarpathian
                    Region], Ukraine.

                    Kevesliget should be Kovesliget, which is now Drahovo as above.

                    Chumalov was Csomanfalva, Chumaleve or Chumal'ovo, Maramaros County,
                    Hungary, now Khustskyj Rajon [Khust District], Zakarpatska Oblast
                    [Transcarpathian Region], Ukraine.

                    >OH ON RISKO"S SISTER"S NATURALIZATION PAPERS SHE WAS BORN IN Chumalov' and
                    >husband was born in Nizny Seliste'Czechoslovakia.
                    >Bodzer's form says Csumalyava, Austria Hungary

                    Nizny Seliste should be Nyzhnje Selyshche, Maramaros County, Hungary, now
                    Khustskyj Rajon [Khust District], Zakarpatska Oblast [Transcarpathian
                    Region], Ukraine.

                    Csumalyava as above is Chumal'ovo / Chumaleve.

                    All these villages are adjacent, within a few miles of each other. They
                    appear on this map segment:
                    http://www.lemko.org/atlas/Pages/Pg59.html
                    In the lower third of the map, look just east of the red blotch, the city of
                    Khust (XYCT). They're all along the same road: Nyzhnje Selyshche, then the
                    road goes east & north to Drahovo, or east and south to Chumal'ovo and
                    Krychovo.

                    Zakarpatska Oblast was part of Czechoslovakia (the eastern province, known
                    as Podkarpatska Rus' or Subcarpathian Rus'/Ruthenia) from ~1920 until 1945
                    when it was given to the Soviet Union.

                    There were dozens of families who settled in the Brownsville, PA area from
                    these villages. Also in Vintondale, PA (Indiana County). They were
                    Byzantine/Greek Catholics when they came to the USA but most became
                    [Russian] Orthodox here.

                    I have data on all marriages of Rusyns who lived in Brownsville, PA vicinity
                    through ~1915 whether Greek Catholic or Orthodox. First Rusyn church in
                    Brownsville was St. Nicholas Greek Catholic (1911). Before that they
                    attended Holy Ghost Greek Catholic in Charleroi (1899). Some who converted
                    to Orthodoxy attended Holy Trinity Russian Orthodox in Charleroi (1901) and
                    later Holy Resurrection Russian Orthodox in West Brownsville (1915). There
                    were no Ukrainian Catholic or Ukrainian Orthodox churches in this part of
                    the Monongahela River valley -- but these people were not Ukrainians in the
                    first place, so you need not be concerned with finding a Ukrainian Orthodox
                    church for your research.

                    I have the same info for Vintondale.

                    Nothing of all this has anything to do with Slovaks, Slovakia, etc. Try
                    these sites:
                    www.carpatho-rusyn.org
                    www.carpathorusynsociety.org
                    or the "Rusyns" list at topica.com .

                    If you have questions about the data I have, please email me privately, as
                    this is a Slovak list.

                    RDC
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