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Re: [S-R] Re : Austria-Hungary or Slovakia /Language

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  • Tim Skvarenina
    ... Hi Theresa, Based on my family, I would say they went through any port they could get to. I have found departures from the following: Trieste Fiume
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 2, 2001
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      --- Theresa Lindamood <Kinseeker@...>
      wrote:
      > A second question which was left unanswered is, what
      > ports in Europe would
      > someone from Austria-Hungary immigrate from? I am
      > not sure where to

      Hi Theresa,

      Based on my family, I would say they went through any
      port they could get to. I have found departures from
      the following:

      Trieste
      Fiume
      Rotterdam
      Cherbourg
      Bremen
      Hamburg
      Cuxhaven
      Antwerp

      Good luck with your search.


      Tim

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    • Monyak, Stephanie
      Hi I m researching the following names: Manyak or Monyak,Bodzer,Risko and Stoyka-some cities Drahova and Kevesliget were seen on documents. Thanks! Stephanie
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 2, 2001
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        Hi
        I'm researching the following names:

        Manyak or Monyak,Bodzer,Risko and Stoyka-some cities Drahova and Kevesliget
        were seen on documents.

        Thanks!
        Stephanie Monyak

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Tim Skvarenina [mailto:tskvarenina@...]
        Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 5:29 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Re : Austria-Hungary or Slovakia /Language



        --- Theresa Lindamood <Kinseeker@...>
        wrote:
        > A second question which was left unanswered is, what
        > ports in Europe would
        > someone from Austria-Hungary immigrate from? I am
        > not sure where to

        Hi Theresa,

        Based on my family, I would say they went through any
        port they could get to. I have found departures from
        the following:

        Trieste
        Fiume
        Rotterdam
        Cherbourg
        Bremen
        Hamburg
        Cuxhaven
        Antwerp

        Good luck with your search.


        Tim

        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
        http://phonecard.yahoo.com/




        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John
        ... Limiting the search to towns in Slovakia, the closest I could get to Kevesliget is Kevice in Slovakia. The Hungarian word liget translates to grove,
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 2, 2001
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          At 06:02 PM 8/2/01 -0400, you wrote:
          >Hi
          >I'm researching the following names:
          >
          >Manyak or Monyak,Bodzer,Risko and Stoyka-some cities Drahova and Kevesliget
          >were seen on documents.
          >
          >Thanks!
          >Stephanie Monyak

          Limiting the search to towns in Slovakia, the closest I could get to
          Kevesliget is Kevice in Slovakia. The Hungarian word "liget" translates to
          "grove, wood, grounds, woods". Dargov was Dargo from 1863-1913, Dargov
          1920-1948, Drahov 1948-1964, and now Dargov. The "g" can have an "h" sound
          in Ukrainian and I believe eastern Slovakia. Which surnames are associated
          with which town?

          John
        • Monyak, Stephanie
          Risko and Bodzer were listed on their declarations of intention were from Drahova, and kevesliget and also Chumalov. Also on the ship manifest it said the
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 3, 2001
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            Risko and Bodzer were listed on their declarations of intention were from
            Drahova, and kevesliget and also Chumalov. Also on the ship manifest it said
            the language for Risko was Ruthenian

            the Monyak or Manyak name was from 'austria-hungary'and they were called
            'white russians' one city was Bukavena too.

            -----Original Message-----
            From: John [mailto:jmatsko4@...]
            Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 7:58 PM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [S-R] Re : Austria-Hungary or Slovakia /Language


            At 06:02 PM 8/2/01 -0400, you wrote:
            >Hi
            >I'm researching the following names:
            >
            >Manyak or Monyak,Bodzer,Risko and Stoyka-some cities Drahova and Kevesliget
            >were seen on documents.
            >
            >Thanks!
            >Stephanie Monyak

            Limiting the search to towns in Slovakia, the closest I could get to
            Kevesliget is Kevice in Slovakia. The Hungarian word "liget" translates to
            "grove, wood, grounds, woods". Dargov was Dargo from 1863-1913, Dargov
            1920-1948, Drahov 1948-1964, and now Dargov. The "g" can have an "h" sound
            in Ukrainian and I believe eastern Slovakia. Which surnames are associated
            with which town?

            John





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          • frankur@att.net
            ... stages ... another ... place (and ... language. That is what the U.S. Census enumerations would list under your Slovak surnames. What did the surname
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 3, 2001
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              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "Theresa Lindamood" <Kinseeker@w...> wrote:
              > Frankfur...your information was helpful for me as I am still in the
              stages
              > of trying to decide whether my Dipko family is from Slovakia or
              another
              > Eastern European country.

              > My immigrant ancestors who listed Austria-Hungary as their birth
              place (and
              > came to America before Ellis Island) listed "Slovak" as their
              language.

              That is what the U.S. Census enumerations would list under your Slovak
              surnames.
              What did the surname naturalization papers list ?

              Before WW I, Slovakia was part of Upper Hungary (Felvidék) and
              part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire (1867-1918) and earlier a
              part of Hungary under the Austrian Empire.

              Of course, the inhabitants of Slovakia spoke Slovak going back to
              whenever
              the language was first established.

              http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14042a.htm

              > If read your posting correctly, are you saying that Slovak is not
              the
              > language of Slovakia? If it is not the language of Slovakia, whose
              language
              > is it?

              That is not what I wrote.
              The Magyars ruled Slovakia from 906 A.D. to 1918 A.D.

              The language of records was Latin and Hungarian and of administration
              it
              was Hungarian.

              In Upper-Hungary (Slovakia) the parish church registers were in Latin.
              Registers were written in Hungarian 1836-1849.
              After the failed Hungarian revolt (1848-1849) the Austrians banned the
              use of
              Hungarian in registers, and introduced Latin again.
              With establishment of dual Austro-Hungarian Monarchy (1867-1918)
              registers were
              written in Hungarian again.


              > A second question which was left unanswered is, what ports in Europe
              would
              > someone from Austria-Hungary immigrate from? I am not sure where to
              > continue my search. I did look at the Hamburg Passenger lists
              because my
              > Polish ancestors went through Hamburg.

              Probable port of exit in Europe (1871-1913) would depend upon the year
              of
              surname emigration from Hungary to the USA.

              Major European ports used :

              Fiume, Italy
              Trieste, Italy
              Hamburg, Germany
              Bremen, Germany
              Antwerp, Belgium
              Amsterdam, Holland
              Rotterdam, Holland
              Liverpool, England
              Southampton, England
              Le Havre, France
              Cherbourg, France
              Genova, Italy
              Napoli, Italy

              Hamburg and Bremen, Germany were the major ports used based on the
              number of
              emigrants who passed through them enroute to USA.

              Port city of Rijeka (C) Fiume (I) was part of Hungarian Modrus-Fiume
              Megye (county) under the dual Austro-Hungarian Monarchy and is located
              in
              Croatia.

              In 1903, Hungary established the most restrictive Emigration Law in
              the world and tried to funnel all emigrants leaving Hungary via
              Rijeka/Fiume.
              The law also enabled the Hungarian government to make a contract with
              the Cunard Steamship Company for a direct Fiume to New York route.

              Pre-WW I

              Migration from Hungary
              via Rijeka/Fiume

              1903 0 emigrants
              1904 22016
              1905 35961
              1906 49332
              1907 47620
              1908 15411
              1909 36824
              1910 36834
              1911 18532
              1912 21922
              1913 20847

              Migration from Hungary
              via Trieste

              1904 0 emigrants
              1905 867
              1906 3621
              1907 6028
              1908 1805
              1909 4729
              1910 4299
              1911 2379
              1912 3959
              1913 4345

              The Ellis Island Records (1892-1924) list only 2 surname Dipko.

              1 from Bialostock, Russia which I expect is Bialystok, Poland
              located 108 miles NE of Warszawa.
              This would have been located in Russian-Poland (1790s-1918)

              The other was from Guila, Russia which looks like one of several
              place names also located in Poland.

              So I read a Polish connection.
              What was the surname village/town of origin in Slovakia ?
            • frankur@att.net
              ... from ... Tiny Drahová (Sk) is located about 127 miles ENE of Bratislava and near Utekac^ . Now in okres (district) Luc^enec. Kévesliget means little
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 3, 2001
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                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "Monyak, Stephanie" <monyaksl@m...> wrote:
                > Risko and Bodzer were listed on their declarations of intention were
                from
                > Drahova, and kevesliget and also Chumalov.

                Tiny Drahová (Sk) is located about 127 miles ENE of Bratislava and
                near Utekac^ .
                Now in okres (district) Luc^enec.
                Kévesliget means 'little grove' in Magyar.

                What was surname religion ?
                Doubt it was Roman Catholic ?
                Probably G.C.

                R.C. parish church records (1804-1895) for Drahová are listed under
                Kokava nad Rimavicou.
                Text in LATIN and HUNGARIAN.


                > Also on the ship manifest it said
                > the language for Risko was Ruthenian

                Carpatho-Rusyn, Rusnak, Ruthenian akin to Ukrainian.

                > the Monyak or Manyak name was from 'austria-hungary'and they were
                called
                > 'white russians' one city was Bukavena too.

                Byelorussia (now Belarus)
              • Monyak, Stephanie
                they were Ukrainain orthodox-I have tried contacting the us diocese-but they are not as good with their church records as roman Catholics are. Risko and Bodzer
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 3, 2001
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                  they were Ukrainain orthodox-I have tried contacting the us diocese-but they
                  are not as good with their church records as roman Catholics are.
                  Risko and Bodzer were married in 1909 in Brownseville,Pa-but there is no
                  church that I can find that existed then-and I called the diocese out of new
                  York and they refer me back to the local church-which I can't find. They
                  also had to apply to be married-but in about 10 of the surrounding counties
                  I can find no marriage applications from them.

                  You are being so extremely helpful-thank you!

                  Oh I do have a copy of a birth record from 1905 of a great aunt-would there
                  be anyplace I could send it to see if someone might recognize the city or
                  local? I do think it was also Bukovena-and there may be more birth records
                  of other siblings there.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: frankur@... [mailto:frankur@...]
                  Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:32 AM
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Re : Austria-Hungary or Slovakia /Language


                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "Monyak, Stephanie" <monyaksl@m...> wrote:
                  > Risko and Bodzer were listed on their declarations of intention were
                  from
                  > Drahova, and kevesliget and also Chumalov.

                  Tiny Drahová (Sk) is located about 127 miles ENE of Bratislava and
                  near Utekac^ .
                  Now in okres (district) Luc^enec.
                  Kévesliget means 'little grove' in Magyar.

                  What was surname religion ?
                  Doubt it was Roman Catholic ?
                  Probably G.C.

                  R.C. parish church records (1804-1895) for Drahová are listed under
                  Kokava nad Rimavicou.
                  Text in LATIN and HUNGARIAN.


                  > Also on the ship manifest it said
                  > the language for Risko was Ruthenian

                  Carpatho-Rusyn, Rusnak, Ruthenian akin to Ukrainian.

                  > the Monyak or Manyak name was from 'austria-hungary'and they were
                  called
                  > 'white russians' one city was Bukavena too.

                  Byelorussia (now Belarus)







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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • John
                  ... Dargov, which was known as Drahov for the years 1948-1964 is about 12 miles east of Kos^ice and in an area that I believe would fall into the Ruthenian
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 3, 2001
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                    At 08:14 AM 8/3/01 -0400, you wrote:
                    >Risko and Bodzer were listed on their declarations of intention were from
                    >Drahova, and kevesliget and also Chumalov. Also on the ship manifest it said
                    >the language for Risko was Ruthenian

                    Dargov, which was known as Drahov for the years 1948-1964 is about 12 miles
                    east of Kos^ice and in an area that I believe would fall into the Ruthenian
                    category. There are a few Ris^ko (Rishko) in the Kos^ice phone directory.

                    >the Monyak or Manyak name was from 'austria-hungary'and they were called
                    >'white russians' one city was Bukavena too.

                    Bukavena - There are 3 Bukovina in Slovakia, several in the Czech
                    Republic, Poland, etc.. I've heard the term "White Russians" (Bela Rus a
                    country west of Russia and north of Ukraine) used by some families to
                    distinguish themselves from "Red Russians" (the bad guys) when they were
                    actually Rusyns, Ruthenians, Pod Karpatski Rus, etc.. Normally first
                    generation immigrants married in Europe and if not, they emigrated to areas
                    where their families, neighbors and neighboring villagers emigrated
                    to. They would then most likely marry into the same culture (religion,
                    language, etc.). What I'm saying is there is a good likelihood that all
                    were from the area now located in NE Slovakia, SE Poland, W Ukraine. If
                    they were from SE Poland it probably would have been written as
                    Bukowina. There is a Bukowina located just north of the Slovak border
                    about 20 miles east of Stara Lubovna in an area that would have been
                    considered to be Rusyn.

                    Do you know what religion they were. That would be helpful. My s-i-l's
                    family believed their grandfather was Bohemian but as I found out, he was
                    Greek Catholic, Rusyn, and from NE Slovakia. Frank K may have a better
                    handle on this. I couldn't locate some of the towns you mentioned.
                    *****
                    Just read your post about their religion. Ukrainian Orthodox is
                    essentially the same as Greek Catholic but they were not reunited with the
                    Roman Catholic church. This would indicate they were Ruthenian. Were the
                    Monyak, Manyak also U.O.? Did you ever see their name spelled Monjak or
                    Manjak?

                    John
                  • Monyak, Stephanie
                    I have seen the monyak spelled MAnyak and on my great grandfather s petition for naturalization as well as his brothers it was misspelled as monyah and
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 3, 2001
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                      I have seen the monyak spelled MAnyak and on my great grandfather's
                      petition for naturalization as well as his brothers' it was misspelled as
                      monyah and monjak-but that was in this country-that birth certificate REALLY
                      looks as if the name were Manyak and the maiden name of the mother was
                      Popelicova.
                      They came thru Baltimore so I can't even check ellisisland.org.
                      I think they were Greek Orthodox.
                      OH ON RISKO"S SISTER"S NATURALIZATION PAPERS SHE WAS BORN IN Chumalov' and
                      husband was born in Nizny Seliste'Czechoslovakia.
                      Bodzer's form says Csumalyava, Austria Hungary

                      On the Monyak birth record:
                      Bukovina is spelled Bukovinka

                      The form says this:

                      Vytah z matriky narozeni
                      Szuletesi anyakonyvi kivonat

                      There are other words too but they use non english-type letters so I can't
                      even write it for you.

                      There is a seal at the bottom but it is a bad copy and I can't make out what
                      it says-that's why I was hoping to fax a copy or mail acopy to someone who
                      might recognize the city it was from.
                      Another draw back is that may family has been divorced so i never knew any
                      of my monyak side except for my dad-and a few internet cousins who sent me
                      the birth record.

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: John [ mailto:jmatsko4@... <mailto:jmatsko4@...> ]
                      Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:33 AM
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [S-R] Re : Austria-Hungary or Slovakia /Language


                      At 08:14 AM 8/3/01 -0400, you wrote:
                      >Risko and Bodzer were listed on their declarations of intention were from
                      >Drahova, and kevesliget and also Chumalov. Also on the ship manifest it
                      said
                      >the language for Risko was Ruthenian

                      Dargov, which was known as Drahov for the years 1948-1964 is about 12 miles
                      east of Kos^ice and in an area that I believe would fall into the Ruthenian
                      category. There are a few Ris^ko (Rishko) in the Kos^ice phone directory.

                      >the Monyak or Manyak name was from 'austria-hungary'and they were called
                      >'white russians' one city was Bukavena too.

                      Bukavena - There are 3 Bukovina in Slovakia, several in the Czech
                      Republic, Poland, etc.. I've heard the term "White Russians" (Bela Rus a
                      country west of Russia and north of Ukraine) used by some families to
                      distinguish themselves from "Red Russians" (the bad guys) when they were
                      actually Rusyns, Ruthenians, Pod Karpatski Rus, etc.. Normally first
                      generation immigrants married in Europe and if not, they emigrated to areas
                      where their families, neighbors and neighboring villagers emigrated
                      to. They would then most likely marry into the same culture (religion,
                      language, etc.). What I'm saying is there is a good likelihood that all
                      were from the area now located in NE Slovakia, SE Poland, W Ukraine. If
                      they were from SE Poland it probably would have been written as
                      Bukowina. There is a Bukowina located just north of the Slovak border
                      about 20 miles east of Stara Lubovna in an area that would have been
                      considered to be Rusyn.

                      Do you know what religion they were. That would be helpful. My s-i-l's
                      family believed their grandfather was Bohemian but as I found out, he was
                      Greek Catholic, Rusyn, and from NE Slovakia. Frank K may have a better
                      handle on this. I couldn't locate some of the towns you mentioned.
                      *****
                      Just read your post about their religion. Ukrainian Orthodox is
                      essentially the same as Greek Catholic but they were not reunited with the
                      Roman Catholic church. This would indicate they were Ruthenian. Were the
                      Monyak, Manyak also U.O.? Did you ever see their name spelled Monjak or
                      Manjak?

                      John







                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • John
                      ... The letter j is usually used for y in slavic and other languages (Jan [Yan] = John, jak [yak] = how). That s why I asked. Also, Mon~ak is pronounced
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 3, 2001
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                        At 12:01 PM 8/3/01 -0400, you wrote:
                        >I have seen the monyak spelled MAnyak and on my great grandfather's
                        >petition for naturalization as well as his brothers' it was misspelled as
                        >monyah and monjak-but that was in this country-that birth certificate REALLY
                        >looks as if the name were Manyak and the maiden name of the mother was
                        >Popelicova.

                        The letter "j" is usually used for "y" in slavic and other languages (Jan
                        [Yan] = John, jak [yak] = how). That's why I asked. Also, Mon~ak is
                        pronounced Monyak the "n~" being pronounced like in Spanish (la nin~a = la
                        ni-nya). There are Mon~ak in Eastern Slovakia.

                        >They came thru Baltimore so I can't even check ellisisland.org.

                        You can check the Baltimore arrivals through NARA and the LDS FHC but it is
                        not as convenient. This site provides some good information on how to:

                        http://home.att.net/~arnielang/shipgide.html

                        >I think they were Greek Orthodox.

                        It was probably Greek Catholic or Ukrainian Orthodox. Greek Orthodox is
                        actually the Greek church and I think they use Greek in their liturgy. The
                        reason for the Greek in Greek Catholic (use(d) old Slavonic language in
                        Divine Liturgy) is to distinguish it (Eastern) from the Roman (Western)
                        church (use(d) Latin in their Mass). The Ukrainian Orthodox also uses(sd)
                        old Slavonic in their liturgy.The Greek Catholic church is now called
                        Byzantine (Eastern) Rite Catholic to decrease the confusion.

                        http://www.byzcath.org/

                        >OH ON RISKO"S SISTER"S NATURALIZATION PAPERS SHE WAS BORN IN Chumalov' and
                        >husband was born in Nizny Seliste'Czechoslovakia.

                        Nizny Selice was probably spelled phonetically. Nearest I could come to
                        that was a a Niz^ny S^ebes^ or Niz^ny Silac^. You might use Mapquest to
                        check them out.

                        >Bodzer's form says Csumalyava, Austria Hungary

                        That's still a mystery to
                        me. Try http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm to locate.

                        >On the Monyak birth record:
                        >Bukovina is spelled Bukovinka

                        There is a reference that a town called Bukovinka is S^iatorska' Bukovinka
                        but it is located just north of the Hungarian border in Central Slovakia
                        south of Radzovce and not in Eastern SK.


                        >The form says this:
                        >
                        >Vytah z matriky narozeni

                        Extracted from the birth register (Slovak)

                        >Szuletesi anyakonyvi kivonat

                        Hungarian I believe. Probably the same as the Slovak translation.

                        >There are other words too but they use non english-type letters so I can't
                        >even write it for you.

                        Might say the same as above. Do you mean the alphabet is different? The
                        Rusyns, Ruthenians, Ukrianians used the Cyrillic alphabet which is also
                        used by the Russians. If you could scan the document or part of it and
                        upload to the file section of S-R, it would allow us to look at it.

                        >There is a seal at the bottom but it is a bad copy and I can't make out
                        >what it says-that's why I was hoping to fax a copy or mail acopy to
                        >someone who might recognize the city it was from.

                        Scanning and uploading would be the easiest and allow everyone to take a
                        crack at it.

                        John
                      • Monyak, Stephanie
                        ... computer only at work and we don t have scanners. I will e-mail the relative who sent me the copy-perhaps he can scan it and send it to me and then I will
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 3, 2001
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                          :(:(:( I don't have a scanner...that's why I am so bummed out-I have a
                          computer only at work and we don't have scanners.

                          I will e-mail the relative who sent me the copy-perhaps he can scan it and
                          send it to me and then I will forward it to the group.

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: John [mailto:jmatsko4@...]
                          Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:27 PM
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [S-R] Re : Austria-Hungary or Slovakia /Language


                          At 12:01 PM 8/3/01 -0400, you wrote:
                          >I have seen the monyak spelled MAnyak and on my great grandfather's
                          >petition for naturalization as well as his brothers' it was misspelled as
                          >monyah and monjak-but that was in this country-that birth certificate
                          REALLY
                          >looks as if the name were Manyak and the maiden name of the mother was
                          >Popelicova.

                          The letter "j" is usually used for "y" in slavic and other languages (Jan
                          [Yan] = John, jak [yak] = how). That's why I asked. Also, Mon~ak is
                          pronounced Monyak the "n~" being pronounced like in Spanish (la nin~a = la
                          ni-nya). There are Mon~ak in Eastern Slovakia.

                          >They came thru Baltimore so I can't even check ellisisland.org.

                          You can check the Baltimore arrivals through NARA and the LDS FHC but it is
                          not as convenient. This site provides some good information on how to:

                          http://home.att.net/~arnielang/shipgide.html

                          >I think they were Greek Orthodox.

                          It was probably Greek Catholic or Ukrainian Orthodox. Greek Orthodox is
                          actually the Greek church and I think they use Greek in their liturgy. The
                          reason for the Greek in Greek Catholic (use(d) old Slavonic language in
                          Divine Liturgy) is to distinguish it (Eastern) from the Roman (Western)
                          church (use(d) Latin in their Mass). The Ukrainian Orthodox also uses(sd)
                          old Slavonic in their liturgy.The Greek Catholic church is now called
                          Byzantine (Eastern) Rite Catholic to decrease the confusion.

                          http://www.byzcath.org/

                          >OH ON RISKO"S SISTER"S NATURALIZATION PAPERS SHE WAS BORN IN Chumalov' and
                          >husband was born in Nizny Seliste'Czechoslovakia.

                          Nizny Selice was probably spelled phonetically. Nearest I could come to
                          that was a a Niz^ny S^ebes^ or Niz^ny Silac^. You might use Mapquest to
                          check them out.

                          >Bodzer's form says Csumalyava, Austria Hungary

                          That's still a mystery to
                          me. Try http://www.jewishgen.org/ShtetlSeeker/loctown.htm to locate.

                          >On the Monyak birth record:
                          >Bukovina is spelled Bukovinka

                          There is a reference that a town called Bukovinka is S^iatorska' Bukovinka
                          but it is located just north of the Hungarian border in Central Slovakia
                          south of Radzovce and not in Eastern SK.


                          >The form says this:
                          >
                          >Vytah z matriky narozeni

                          Extracted from the birth register (Slovak)

                          >Szuletesi anyakonyvi kivonat

                          Hungarian I believe. Probably the same as the Slovak translation.

                          >There are other words too but they use non english-type letters so I can't
                          >even write it for you.

                          Might say the same as above. Do you mean the alphabet is different? The
                          Rusyns, Ruthenians, Ukrianians used the Cyrillic alphabet which is also
                          used by the Russians. If you could scan the document or part of it and
                          upload to the file section of S-R, it would allow us to look at it.

                          >There is a seal at the bottom but it is a bad copy and I can't make out
                          >what it says-that's why I was hoping to fax a copy or mail acopy to
                          >someone who might recognize the city it was from.

                          Scanning and uploading would be the easiest and allow everyone to take a
                          crack at it.

                          John







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                        • frankur@att.net
                          ... a ... it and ... grandfather s ... misspelled as ... certificate ... was ... Chumalov and ... come to ... Mapquest to ... out ... Naturalization papers
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 4, 2001
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                            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., "Monyak, Stephanie" <monyaksl@m...> wrote:
                            > :(:(:( I don't have a scanner...that's why I am so bummed out-I have
                            a
                            > computer only at work and we don't have scanners.
                            >
                            > I will e-mail the relative who sent me the copy-perhaps he can scan
                            it and
                            > send it to me and then I will forward it to the group.
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: John [mailto:jmatsko4@h...]
                            > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:27 PM
                            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@y...
                            > Subject: RE: [S-R] Re : Austria-Hungary or Slovakia /Language
                            >
                            >
                            > At 12:01 PM 8/3/01 -0400, you wrote:
                            > >I have seen the monyak spelled MAnyak and on my great
                            grandfather's
                            > >petition for naturalization as well as his brothers' it was
                            misspelled as
                            > >monyah and monjak-but that was in this country-that birth
                            certificate
                            > REALLY
                            > >looks as if the name were Manyak and the maiden name of the mother
                            was
                            > >Popelicova.

                            > >OH ON RISKO"S SISTER"S NATURALIZATION PAPERS SHE WAS BORN IN
                            Chumalov' and
                            > >husband was born in Nizny Seliste'Czechoslovakia.
                            >
                            > Nizny Selice was probably spelled phonetically. Nearest I could
                            come to
                            > that was a a Niz^ny S^ebes^ or Niz^ny Silac^. You might use
                            Mapquest to
                            > check them out.
                            >
                            > >Bodzer's form says Csumalyava, Austria Hungary
                            >

                            > >The form says this:
                            > >
                            > >Vytah z matriky narozeni
                            >
                            > Extracted from the birth register (Slovak)
                            >
                            > >Szuletesi anyakonyvi kivonat
                            >

                            > >There is a seal at the bottom but it is a bad copy and I can't make
                            out
                            > >what it says-that's why I was hoping to fax a copy or mail acopy to
                            > >someone who might recognize the city it was from.
                            >

                            Naturalization papers often contain the same type of spelling errors
                            as do the Ellis Island Records.
                            Or they revert to 'sounds-like' spellings.

                            In Hungarian születési anyakönyvi kivonat = birth certificate

                            In Slovak rodny' list = birth certificate

                            vytah z matriky narozeni

                            Slovak

                            vy't'ah = to extract
                            z = from

                            matriky = parish church records
                            Krstení = baptisms (Christenings)
                            Sobás^ení = marriages
                            Zomrelí = deaths

                            narodenie = birth

                            As a rule of Slovak grammar, female surnames end in -á, -ská, or -ová.
                            The feminine form of the surnames is considered merely a separate form
                            of same surname, not a distinct surname in itself.
                            If family surname is a noun in form or origin the suffix -ová is added
                            to it, i.e., Popelic + ová.


                            Hungarian letter cs = Slovak diacritic letter c ^ = ch.
                            Expect that Csumalyava actually was Carpatho-Rusyn village C^umal'ovo
                            now located in the Ukraine.
                            It was formerly located in Subcarpathian Rus' which was part of
                            Czechoslovakia only 1920-1938 but part of Hungary from 10th c to 1918.
                            Csomanfalva (H) Cumaleve (Ukr) Comal'ovo (Rusyn)
                            -falva means village in Hungarian and was often misspelled or
                            misread in records.
                          • Theresa Lindamood
                            Thanks everyone for their help. I have some more stuff to look up now and will probably come back with more questions! Theresa ... Outgoing mail is certified
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 5, 2001
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                              Thanks everyone for their help. I have some more stuff to look up now and
                              will probably come back with more questions! Theresa



                              ---
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                              Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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                            • Monyak, Stephanie
                              Theresa, I just noticed your last name-my friend works at lindamood in California-you aren t related to them are you? ... From: Theresa Lindamood
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 6, 2001
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                                Theresa,
                                I just noticed your last name-my friend works at lindamood in California-you
                                aren't related to them are you?

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Theresa Lindamood [mailto:Kinseeker@...]
                                Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 9:16 PM
                                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [S-R] Re : Austria-Hungary or Slovakia /Language


                                Thanks everyone for their help. I have some more stuff to look up now and
                                will probably come back with more questions! Theresa



                                ---
                                Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
                                Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
                                Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/01





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                              • Richard D. Custer
                                ... said ... Oy vey! Ruthenian, Slovaks, Bukovina, Czechoslovakia, White Russians, Ukrainian Orthodox... So much (mis)information, but nobody got it right...
                                Message 15 of 16 , Aug 6, 2001
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                                  >Risko and Bodzer were listed on their declarations of intention were from
                                  >Drahova, and kevesliget and also Chumalov. Also on the ship manifest it
                                  said
                                  >the language for Risko was Ruthenian
                                  >
                                  >the Monyak or Manyak name was from 'austria-hungary'and they were called
                                  >'white russians' one city was Bukavena too.


                                  Oy vey! Ruthenian, Slovaks, Bukovina, Czechoslovakia, White Russians,
                                  Ukrainian Orthodox...

                                  So much (mis)information, but nobody got it right... but like Mighty Mouse,
                                  "here I come to save the day":

                                  These places are not in any gazetteers of Slovakia 'cuz they ain't in
                                  Slovakia. They're in Ukraine. However, they are in that part of Ukraine
                                  which *used to be* in Czechoslovakia, namely Zakarpattia / Subcarpathian
                                  Rus'.

                                  First village mentioned, "Drahova" is Drahovo, Maramaros County, Hungary,
                                  now Khustskyj Rajon [Khust District], Zakarpatska Oblast [Transcarpathian
                                  Region], Ukraine.

                                  Kevesliget should be Kovesliget, which is now Drahovo as above.

                                  Chumalov was Csomanfalva, Chumaleve or Chumal'ovo, Maramaros County,
                                  Hungary, now Khustskyj Rajon [Khust District], Zakarpatska Oblast
                                  [Transcarpathian Region], Ukraine.

                                  >OH ON RISKO"S SISTER"S NATURALIZATION PAPERS SHE WAS BORN IN Chumalov' and
                                  >husband was born in Nizny Seliste'Czechoslovakia.
                                  >Bodzer's form says Csumalyava, Austria Hungary

                                  Nizny Seliste should be Nyzhnje Selyshche, Maramaros County, Hungary, now
                                  Khustskyj Rajon [Khust District], Zakarpatska Oblast [Transcarpathian
                                  Region], Ukraine.

                                  Csumalyava as above is Chumal'ovo / Chumaleve.

                                  All these villages are adjacent, within a few miles of each other. They
                                  appear on this map segment:
                                  http://www.lemko.org/atlas/Pages/Pg59.html
                                  In the lower third of the map, look just east of the red blotch, the city of
                                  Khust (XYCT). They're all along the same road: Nyzhnje Selyshche, then the
                                  road goes east & north to Drahovo, or east and south to Chumal'ovo and
                                  Krychovo.

                                  Zakarpatska Oblast was part of Czechoslovakia (the eastern province, known
                                  as Podkarpatska Rus' or Subcarpathian Rus'/Ruthenia) from ~1920 until 1945
                                  when it was given to the Soviet Union.

                                  There were dozens of families who settled in the Brownsville, PA area from
                                  these villages. Also in Vintondale, PA (Indiana County). They were
                                  Byzantine/Greek Catholics when they came to the USA but most became
                                  [Russian] Orthodox here.

                                  I have data on all marriages of Rusyns who lived in Brownsville, PA vicinity
                                  through ~1915 whether Greek Catholic or Orthodox. First Rusyn church in
                                  Brownsville was St. Nicholas Greek Catholic (1911). Before that they
                                  attended Holy Ghost Greek Catholic in Charleroi (1899). Some who converted
                                  to Orthodoxy attended Holy Trinity Russian Orthodox in Charleroi (1901) and
                                  later Holy Resurrection Russian Orthodox in West Brownsville (1915). There
                                  were no Ukrainian Catholic or Ukrainian Orthodox churches in this part of
                                  the Monongahela River valley -- but these people were not Ukrainians in the
                                  first place, so you need not be concerned with finding a Ukrainian Orthodox
                                  church for your research.

                                  I have the same info for Vintondale.

                                  Nothing of all this has anything to do with Slovaks, Slovakia, etc. Try
                                  these sites:
                                  www.carpatho-rusyn.org
                                  www.carpathorusynsociety.org
                                  or the "Rusyns" list at topica.com .

                                  If you have questions about the data I have, please email me privately, as
                                  this is a Slovak list.

                                  RDC
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