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Re: [S-R] Digest Number 618

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  • Maureen Pulignano
    ... Thank you, Frank! I made that crooked John connection while we were in the High Tatras. I was told that one of the tallest peaks we saw was named
    Message 1 of 1 , Jun 19, 2001
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      > _______________________
      >
      > Message: 17
      > Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 06:51:04 -0000
      > From: frankur@...
      > Subject: Re: Krivjanski
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., Maureen Pulignano <deefalt@f...> wrote:
      > > I am trying to find the surname KRIVJANSKI in Slovakia. I know that
      > > there are many of this family in the area of my Krivjanski kin in
      > Dlhe
      > > nad Cirochou (between Humenne and Snina). What I am trying to
      > determine
      > > is whether the name appears in other villages. Will a Slovak
      > speaking
      > > member be so kind as to check the online directory for me? I don't
      > need
      > > full names/addresses and phone numbers at this time (I can probably
      > wait
      > > for the English version of the directory for that!). I just need to
      > know
      > > if there are clusters of this name in other villages and, if so,
      > where
      > > they are.
      > >
      > > I appreciate the help!
      > >
      > > We just returned from a wonderful journey through Slovakia --
      > northern
      > > route through the Tatras outbound from Prague to Dlhe nad Cirochou
      > and
      > > southern route through Kosice and Bratislava on the return trip. I
      > will
      > > do my best to answer any questions I can about the experience.
      > >
      > > Maureen
      >
      > Don't know your surnames.
      >
      > Only 11 surname Krivjansky (Crooked John ?) are listed in the
      > U.S. Social Security Death Index (SSDI)
      >
      > http://ssdi.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?f3=Krivjansky&f4=&f0=&f1=&f2=
      > &f20=&advqt=%2Fsearch%2Frectype%2Fvital%2Fssdi%2Fmain.htm&db=ssdi&ti=0
      > &submit423=Search&f13=&f15=&f14=&f12=&f9=&f8=&f10=&f6=&f5=&f7=
      >
      > As a rule of Slovak grammar, female surnames end in -�, -sk�, or -ov�.
      > The feminine form of the surnames is considered merely a separate form
      > of same surname, not a distinct surname in itself.
      >
      > If the surname is adjectival in origin , i.e., ends in -y', the ending
      > changes to -�, so that wife of p�n (Mr.) Krivjansky' be pani (Mrs.)
      >
      > Krivjansk� and their daughter would be slec^na (Miss) Krivjansk�.
      >
      > If surname is a noun in form or origin the suffix -ov� is added to it,
      > e.g., p�n Kov�c^, pani Kov�c^ov�, slec^na Kov�c^ov�.
      >
      > This appears to be the case in Slovakia.
      >
      > Many Polish surnames end in -ski or -cki.
      > In older records you sometimes read -sky (before spelling rules
      > were adapted); but in recent times tendency to insist on -ski.
      > Probably a possessive affix added to name which evolved from person's
      > characteristics (such as 'tall, short, etc.), occupation, or place
      > of residence.
      > In Czech and Slovak, the -sky is akin to the Polish -ski, while -cky
      > is similar to Polish -cki.
      >
      > The surname also appears in the Czech Republic and in Poland.
      >
      > In Hungarian and Slovak the letter w appears only in foreign words.
      > The letter v is used and pron. v.
      > In Polish the letter w is pron. v.
      > Kriwjanski ?
      >
      > Slovakia telephone directory
      >
      > Bratislava
      > 3 Krivjansky'
      >
      > Spis^sk� Nov� Ves
      > 2 Krivjansky'
      >
      > Dlh� nad Cirochou
      > 1 Krivjansky'
      > 1 Kruvjansk�
      >
      > Kos^ice
      > 2 Krivjansky'
      >
      > Snina
      > 1 Krivjansky'
      >
      > The LDS have filmed the parish church records (1805-1925) for
      > Dlh� nad Cirochou (Sv) formerly Cir�kahossz�mezo"(I), Zempl�n
      > Megye (county), Hungary.
      > Text in Latin and Hungarian.
      >
      > 10 surname Krivjansky emigrated to U.S. through Ellis Island
      > (1892-1924)
      >
      > >From Ciroka Dlha Zemplov see above.
      > >From Nova Ves, Novitza which would be Spis^sk� Nov� Ves (Sv)
      > Igl� (H)
      > >From Poprac, Peprad , i.e. Poprad.
      > >From Betenfaln actually Betlenfalu (H) Betlanovce (Sv)
      > >From Biacovce actually Bijacovce (Sv) Szepesmindszent (H)
      > v
      > Frank Kurcina
      >

      Thank you, Frank! I made that "crooked John" connection while we were in the High Tatras. I was told that one of the tallest peaks we saw was named "Krivjan" (or something like that) and that it was so named because it is very crooked. Talk about feeling
      connected to your homeland!

      The LDS films from Dlhe nad Cirochou are my equivalent of the old family Bible! Thanks to helpful folks on this list a year or so ago, I was able to pin down my grandmother's maiden name and village of origin: CHVOSTAL from Dlhe nad Cirochou. (Now there is
      another good one, as I am told that Chvostal translates to "tail"!) I had always been told that my g grandmother's maiden name was KRIVER. The first day I began reviewing the LDS films KRIVJANSZKI jumped out at me! When I found my grandmother's Baptism
      record, my guess was confirmed: her parents were Mihaly HVOSZTALY and Zsuszanna KRIVJANSZKY (spellings courtesy of c.1880s Hungarian domination). CHVOSTAL and KRIVJANSKI are very dominate names in the records of Dlhe. And, while visiting the village last
      month, I met many of them!

      I really appreciate your consistent efforts to clarify the name variations (both for people and places) when you respond to posts on this list. Over the months it begins to sink in! However, because so many people are now spending a lot of effort searching
      the Ellis Island site, I would like to add a point or two about spelling.

      1. The spelling of surnames and place names changes over time in the original homeland -- as you have pointed out.

      2. The clerks who recorded the passenger information we find on the Ellis Island site were not neccessarily fluent in Slovak or Hungarian -- and some, not in English. I have found many instances of such spellings as "Filidelfia" for that large city in
      eastern PA.

      3. The early records were written in cursive and the search engines are based on typewritten transcriptions of the cursive. One good example: I found my g grandparents entry (Mihaly and Zsuszanna HVOSZTALY) by searching under HROSZTALY -- the cursive "V"
      had been transcribed as an "R" and only by looking at the original manifest was I able to be certain I had found them.

      So, for those searching the Ellis Island site, I recommend some creative thinking -- like, if there is an "l" in the name, could it have been transcribed as a "t" or an "h", etc. Search the alternate spellings -- then, search the alternate spellings of the
      alternates! Pretty soon, you will be able to "divine" your own alternates based upon common misspellings and mistranscriptions. I have found many more Krivjanski and Chvostal entries this way.

      Now, one more question, please! Other than Bratislava, how many of the place names you listed are in old Zemplin? I am working on the theory that Krivjanski is a name originating in old Zemplen. (I give much more weight to the villages and smaller
      surrounding towns/cities than to the Bratislava listings -- educated young people seem to be migrating toward the opportunities in Bratislava.)

      Thanks again for the help!
      Maureen


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