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Marriage Record

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  • Andrea Payne
    I found this marriage record some time ago by reading the actual microfilm. It was from a newly opened Greek Catholic church in Sulin, Stara L ubovna, Sk (now
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 19, 2014
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      I found this marriage record some time ago by reading the actual microfilm. It was from a newly opened Greek Catholic church in Sulin, Stara L'ubovna, Sk (now Sulin).
      1805   25 Nov.  Michael Hriczenyak       Witnesses: Joannes Bogusky &
                                  Theodosia Romanyak                       Vanjo Kreta

      No other information is given.  It appears to be only a Register and not the original Marriage Record.  My question is: is there any way that I can obtain the full
      marriage record showing names of the parents of both groom & bride and where they were christened. 

      I have recorded many Greek Catholic marriage records, some in the Cyrillic language and some translated and have never seen a record as brief as this one.

      This is my direct maternal line and I estimate that Theodosia Romanyak may have been born about 1787.  I would appreciate any help that you can offer. 
      I had tried to hire a researcher and he gave me the exact same information that I gave him (listed above.)  It also appears that these families moved into Maly Sulin after the lease with Poland expired about 1772.

    • htcstech
      Well that s a very early record. I do know that the earliest records (eg from 1770 onwards) use a rubric that is simple. Now that is a generalization but the
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 20, 2014
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        Well that's a very early record. I do know that the earliest records (eg from 1770 onwards) use a rubric that is simple. Now that is a generalization but the early records are very basic.
        Alternate sources would be a family bible or look forward to a birth or death record. The rubric may of changed by then.

        Peter M.


        On 20 August 2014 16:12, Andrea Payne andreapayne874@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
         

        I found this marriage record some time ago by reading the actual microfilm. It was from a newly opened Greek Catholic church in Sulin, Stara L'ubovna, Sk (now Sulin).
        1805   25 Nov.  Michael Hriczenyak       Witnesses: Joannes Bogusky &
                                    Theodosia Romanyak                       Vanjo Kreta

        No other information is given.  It appears to be only a Register and not the original Marriage Record.  My question is: is there any way that I can obtain the full
        marriage record showing names of the parents of both groom & bride and where they were christened. 

        I have recorded many Greek Catholic marriage records, some in the Cyrillic language and some translated and have never seen a record as brief as this one.

        This is my direct maternal line and I estimate that Theodosia Romanyak may have been born about 1787.  I would appreciate any help that you can offer. 
        I had tried to hire a researcher and he gave me the exact same information that I gave him (listed above.)  It also appears that these families moved into Maly Sulin after the lease with Poland expired about 1772.


      • johnqadam
        ... The URL is found at: Slovakia, Church and Synagogue Books, 1592-1910 Image Slovakia, Church and Synagogue Books, 1592-1910;
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 20, 2014
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          >>> I found this marriage record some time ago by reading the actual microfilm.  .  .  . is there any way that I can obtain the full
          marriage record showing names of the parents of both groom & bride and where they were christened.  <<<
          The URL is found at:
          page 144/507.

          Earliest birth records are online from 1780 at:


        • johnqadam
          The following will help you to set up your own index of page numbers for the Sulin church records. Greek Catholic parish registers of baptisms, marriages and
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 20, 2014
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            The following will help you to set up your own index of page numbers for the Sulin church records.

            Greek Catholic parish registers of baptisms, marriages and deaths for Vel'ké Sulín, Slovakia; formerly Szulin, Sáros, Hungary.

             

            Inv. č. 1380

            Krsty 1780-1801 –

            Manželstvá 1780-1801 –

            Úmrtia 1780-1801 –

             

            Inv. č. 1381

            Krsty 1802-1839 –

            Krsty 1844-1864 - 

            Inv. č. 1382 (pokrač.)

            Krsty 1802-1843 –

            Manželstvá 1802-1843 –

            Úmrtia 1802-1843 –

             

            Inv. č. 1383

            Krsty 1865-1897 –

            Manželstvá 1873-1904 –

            Úmrtia 1863-1913 –

             

            Inv. č. 1384

            Druhopisy krstov, manželstvá, úmrtí 1876 –

            Krsty, manželstvá, manželstvá 1878- -  


          • johnqadam
            ... You may find that the 1869 Hungarian Census provides some useful information on the family as it was at that time. It is found online at: Slovakia, Census,
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 20, 2014
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              >>> I found this marriage record some time ago by reading the actual microfilm. It was from a newly opened Greek Catholic church in Sulin, Stara L'ubovna, Sk (now Sulin).<<<
              You may find that the 1869 Hungarian Census provides some useful information on the family as it was at that time. It is found online at:

            • MGMojher
              Andrea, Here is a link that shows a marriage register page and the information that goes into each column.
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 20, 2014
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                Andrea,
                    Here is a link that shows a marriage register page and the information that goes into each column. https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/File:Hungary_Pest-Pills-Solt-Kis-Kun_Budapest_Civil_Registration_(08-0553)_Marriage_004403213_00048.jpg
                 
                A short history on civil records in Hungary:
                Anyone searching for vital records in Hungary before 1895 will have to rely on church records.
                 
                The 1563 Council of Trent had first required Roman Catholic churches to keep parish registers, however Turkish rule in many areas of the Austro-Hungarian Empire prevented churches there from complying. A few early Franciscan registers date back to the mid-1600s, however, although most parishes do not have entries until the 1680s or later (after the departure of the Turks). Hungarian Roman Catholic Church records are now the property of the state (through the National Archives of Hungary in Budapest: Magyar Országos Leveltár), although they are stored in various county archives.
                 
                I have not heard of or seen a marriage certificate that was issued to the couple. After 1895 there may have been. The “church records” could have three copies. The parish, city hall and the so called Bishop’s Copy. The pre-1895 registers are in the archives now. There is a 100 year privacy rule in Slovakia. Records up to 1915 should be available. From my experience, the registrar at the City Hall can be bend the rule when you are there in person.
                 
                My ancestral village is Hromos which is very close to Sulin. On one of my trips I drove the road that parallels the Poprad River from Mniske nad Popradom to Maly Lipnik then back to Hromos. It was an adventure since the road is not kept up well. Yet on the Poland side of the river was a modern two-lane highway. When I arrived in Sulin the mail van was approaching and I pulled over to let him by. Because of high weeds I didn’t know there was a ditch. My front wheel went into it and I was stuck. The citizens of Sulin came to my rescue. The mailman had rope and someone brought a tractor. Sulin is in an isolated location, still beautiful since it is along the Poprad River.
                 
                Present day Sulin did not come into existence until 1960. That is when Maly and Vel’ky Sulin were incorporated. From 1773 to 1863 they were Sulin, but during Magyarization they became two villages.
                2273 Sulín SL/PV  šariš. / spiš. 1960 zlúč. o. Malý Sulín [ šariš. ] a Veľký Sulín [ spiš. ]. 
                1960– Sulín 
                Malý Sulín: 1773 Szulin, Sulin, 1786 Sulin, 1808 Szulin, Sulín, 18631877 Palocsaszulin, 1882 Palocsaszulin, Sárosszulin, 18881913 Szulin, 1920 Sulín, 19271945 Malý Sulín, Malyj Sulin, 19451960 Malý Sulín 
                Veľký Sulín: 1773 Szulin, Sulin, 1786 Sulin, 1808 Szulin, Sulín, 18631882, 18921902 Szulin, 1888 Szepesszulin, 19071913 Nagyszulin, 1920 Sulín, 19271960 Veľký Sulín
                 
                Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 11:12 PM
                Subject: [S-R] Marriage Record
                 
                 

                I found this marriage record some time ago by reading the actual microfilm. It was from a newly opened Greek Catholic church in Sulin, Stara L'ubovna, Sk (now Sulin).
                1805   25 Nov.  Michael Hriczenyak       Witnesses: Joannes Bogusky &
                                            Theodosia Romanyak                       Vanjo Kreta
                 
                No other information is given.  It appears to be only a Register and not the original Marriage Record.  My question is: is there any way that I can obtain the full
                marriage record showing names of the parents of both groom & bride and where they were christened. 
                 
                I have recorded many Greek Catholic marriage records, some in the Cyrillic language and some translated and have never seen a record as brief as this one.
                 
                This is my direct maternal line and I estimate that Theodosia Romanyak may have been born about 1787.  I would appreciate any help that you can offer. 
                I had tried to hire a researcher and he gave me the exact same information that I gave him (listed above.)  It also appears that these families moved into Maly Sulin after the lease with Poland expired about 1772.
                 
              • bettetina1
                Very helpful info on Bill Tarkulich’s Slovakia and Environs, Genealogy Research Strategies Church Record Headers with translations in Latin, Hungarian,
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 20, 2014
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                  Very helpful info on Bill Tarkulich’s Slovakia and Environs, Genealogy Research Strategies 

                  Church Record Headers with translations in Latin, Hungarian, Slovak,  Polish, German

                  Church Record Headers (originally produced by John Jasso) , new page


                  http://www.iabsi.com/gen/public/church_record_headers.htm


                   

                • amiak27
                  Andrea,I will add to what Michael and the others have to say, disagree with a bit of what has been said, and offer the history of Sulin as I know it. Right or
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 20, 2014
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                    Andrea,I will add to what Michael and the others have to say, disagree with a bit of what has been said, and offer the history of Sulin as I know it. Right or wrong, I have been visiting there since 1970 and researching history, rather than genealogy.

                    On church records, I don't believe the Turks were primarily responsible for delay in establishing church records in North Hungary (Slovakia). It took some time, evidently a surprisingly long time, to determine what was needed in the records, who would record them, train the priests as record keepers, and resolve a standard format. You will note that in the change from paragraph format to tabular information.

                    The Sulin records are ALL on line, to the best of my knowledge. They begin about 1795, not earlier. Sulin today includes Velky Sulin, Maly Sulin and Zavodie. At one time Zavodie was included in the Mnisek nad Popradom records, I believe simply because of the physical need to reach the prime village of record. The roads or trails used to go up over the mountains and not along the river until quite recent times.  The road toward Sulin from Maly Lipnik was built in 1963 and reached the Sulin Spring. In 1968 the road was extended from the spring to the village of Maly Sulin. I do not know when the road to Zavodie was built, but there is quite a nice road (not trail by 1850 standards) that still exists over the mountain to Velky Sulin.

                    Velky Sulin and Zavodie were in old Spis county, and as part of the Lubovna area were pawned to Poland along with the other Spis towns, only to return to Austria-Hungary with the first partition of Poland in 1772. This Polish time was the most prosperous time for Lubovna and the area.

                    Maly Sulin was across the county line and in Saris County. The border was very close to the creek coming from Velky Lipnik, where the mill used to be. The forestry office and the flour mill were both in Velky Sulin. There is one reference that refers to a glass foundry being established in Sulin in 1613, although current memory only extends back to the glass foundry in Maly Lipnik. (OK, 400 years is a long time to remember!) 

                    In searching arrivals in America I once ran across Szepesszulin written out as Lepesszulin, and
                    you will run across Maly Sulin as Palocsaszulin, Sárosszulin, as it was owned by lords living in Plavec who used the Paloc prefix sometimes. (anyone have a better explanation?)

                    If you are looking at 1805 marriage and records begin in 1795, you are unlikely to find the birth of your two people, and if the names of the parents was not on the film you looked at, they will also not be on the scans of those films. It seems you have traced the family back as far as you can.

                    Your only other hope is to check the additional copies of the register, as sometimes the 'bishop's copy' has more or less information than the 'original'. (I am guessing there are exceptions to which was written first, the 'original' or the 'bishop's copy).

                    If you know any different, or discover something new, please let me know. I am curious about Sulin as well!

                    Ron
                    PS. Michael, I drove that road from Sulin to Mnisek nad Popradom around 1997, and the family had a hard time believing I took a normal car over the route. The condition of the road/trail varies with rain and floods, and I did stop 3 times to sound out puddles along the way to make sure I would not drop a wheel. But then that is not an unusual caution in Alaska.
                  • MGMojher
                    Ron and Andrea, Some very good information Ron. For those of us who have our roots in this area of Slovakia the “mortgage” is of interest: “In 1412 it
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 20, 2014
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                      Ron and Andrea,
                          Some very good information Ron.
                          For those of us who have our roots in this area of Slovakia the “mortgage” is of interest:
                      “In 1412 it (Stara Lubovna) belonged to the 16 Spiš towns given by the Hungarian King Sigismund of Luxemburg as a deposit to King Władysław II of Poland. The pledge was part of the Treaty of Lubowla and was thought to be only for a short time, but it finally lasted for 360 years. Only in the course of the first Partition of Poland in 1772 during the reign of Maria Theresa of Austria the territory came back to the Kingdom of Hungary.” While under Polish rule these villages had far more rights than villages in Hungary. The had a chance to prosper.
                          The local dialect is called Goral, Highlander in Slovak. That dialect is still spoken on the Slovak and Polish side of the mountains. I have gone shopping with my Hromos cousin in Poland, just across the border. To my ear my Slovaks and Pols were speaking the same language. More Slovak sounding than Polish, not surprisingly.
                          With this history you have to understand the the records may have been kept different for these 16 villages until they returned to Hungary in 1772. And the time to catch up could have taken into the 1800’s. There are no “rules” when dealing with records that are before the formal record book in the 1800’s. All too often it could be the whim of the registrar as to what was entered when the pages were done by hand.
                          I agree the Turks did not influence record keeping in Northern Hungary. First of all they never set foot there. Hungarian royalty escaped to Bratislava castle to avoid the Turks. Record keeping began early. I have seen records that were written in the 1400’s. Problem was it looked like they were written with a not to well sharpened wooden sticks. Very thick and smeared letters. The “golden age” of record keeping is considered after 1600. Any thing you can find during that century is genealogical gold.
                          Ron, I can understand how the Paloc prefix makes sense with the “lords of the manor” surname. I also have another spin on a prefix. Years ago I learned of the Plavici. A group that the King of Hungary allowed to settle into Hungary in the 1200’s to make a stand against Genghis Khan. He died before the invasion happened. I learn that the Plavici were known as the Cumani, a rare of people that came from the western curve of the Yellow River who invaded east, all the way to Italy. I was told years ago that any village that began with PLAV was founded by the Plavici. Well, my ancestral village sits between PLAVnica and PLAVec. Last year I found on the history of Plavec that the royal road was guarded by the Plavici.
                          This would be a footnote for me except it has a genealogical context for me. I told a cousin about the Plavici. She wrote back, “That explains everything!” Her sister had some major medical problems. The doctors had extensive blood tests done. They had a question for her, “How is it you are a blue-eyed blonde but your blood type is Asian?” Cousin had a photograph of a great-aunt in Slovakia whose appearance is very Asian. Hello, Plavici.
                         
                       
                      Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 5:48 PM
                      Subject: [S-R] Re: Marriage Record
                       
                       

                      Andrea,I will add to what Michael and the others have to say, disagree with a bit of what has been said, and offer the history of Sulin as I know it. Right or wrong, I have been visiting there since 1970 and researching history, rather than genealogy.

                      On church records, I don't believe the Turks were primarily responsible for delay in establishing church records in North Hungary (Slovakia). It took some time, evidently a surprisingly long time, to determine what was needed in the records, who would record them, train the priests as record keepers, and resolve a standard format. You will note that in the change from paragraph format to tabular information.

                      The Sulin records are ALL on line, to the best of my knowledge. They begin about 1795, not earlier. Sulin today includes Velky Sulin, Maly Sulin and Zavodie. At one time Zavodie was included in the Mnisek nad Popradom records, I believe simply because of the physical need to reach the prime village of record. The roads or trails used to go up over the mountains and not along the river until quite recent times.  The road toward Sulin from Maly Lipnik was built in 1963 and reached the Sulin Spring. In 1968 the road was extended from the spring to the village of Maly Sulin. I do not know when the road to Zavodie was built, but there is quite a nice road (not trail by 1850 standards) that still exists over the mountain to Velky Sulin.

                      Velky Sulin and Zavodie were in old Spis county, and as part of the Lubovna area were pawned to Poland along with the other Spis towns, only to return to Austria-Hungary with the first partition of Poland in 1772. This Polish time was the most prosperous time for Lubovna and the area.

                      Maly Sulin was across the county line and in Saris County. The border was very close to the creek coming from Velky Lipnik, where the mill used to be. The forestry office and the flour mill were both in Velky Sulin. There is one reference that refers to a glass foundry being established in Sulin in 1613, although current memory only extends back to the glass foundry in Maly Lipnik. (OK, 400 years is a long time to remember!) 

                      In searching arrivals in America I once ran across Szepesszulin written out as Lepesszulin, and
                      you will run across Maly Sulin as Palocsaszulin, Sárosszulin, as it was owned by lords living in Plavec who used the Paloc prefix sometimes. (anyone have a better explanation?)

                      If you are looking at 1805 marriage and records begin in 1795, you are unlikely to find the birth of your two people, and if the names of the parents was not on the film you looked at, they will also not be on the scans of those films. It seems you have traced the family back as far as you can.

                      Your only other hope is to check the additional copies of the register, as sometimes the 'bishop's copy' has more or less information than the 'original'. (I am guessing there are exceptions to which was written first, the 'original' or the 'bishop's copy).

                      If you know any different, or discover something new, please let me know. I am curious about Sulin as well!

                      Ron
                      PS. Michael, I drove that road from Sulin to Mnisek nad Popradom around 1997, and the family had a hard time believing I took a normal car over the route. The condition of the road/trail varies with rain and floods, and I did stop 3 times to sound out puddles along the way to make sure I would not drop a wheel. But then that is not an unusual caution in Alaska.

                    • htcstech
                      An excellent post Ron! I do believe that if the death records could be found, then at least the birthdates can be worked out. Peter M. On 21 August 2014 10:48,
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 20, 2014
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                        An excellent post Ron!

                        I do believe that if the death records could be found, then at least the birthdates can be worked out.

                        Peter M.


                        On 21 August 2014 10:48, amiak27@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                         

                        Andrea,I will add to what Michael and the others have to say, disagree with a bit of what has been said, and offer the history of Sulin as I know it. Right or wrong, I have been visiting there since 1970 and researching history, rather than genealogy.

                        On church records, I don't believe the Turks were primarily responsible for delay in establishing church records in North Hungary (Slovakia). It took some time, evidently a surprisingly long time, to determine what was needed in the records, who would record them, train the priests as record keepers, and resolve a standard format. You will note that in the change from paragraph format to tabular information.

                        The Sulin records are ALL on line, to the best of my knowledge. They begin about 1795, not earlier. Sulin today includes Velky Sulin, Maly Sulin and Zavodie. At one time Zavodie was included in the Mnisek nad Popradom records, I believe simply because of the physical need to reach the prime village of record. The roads or trails used to go up over the mountains and not along the river until quite recent times.  The road toward Sulin from Maly Lipnik was built in 1963 and reached the Sulin Spring. In 1968 the road was extended from the spring to the village of Maly Sulin. I do not know when the road to Zavodie was built, but there is quite a nice road (not trail by 1850 standards) that still exists over the mountain to Velky Sulin.

                        Velky Sulin and Zavodie were in old Spis county, and as part of the Lubovna area were pawned to Poland along with the other Spis towns, only to return to Austria-Hungary with the first partition of Poland in 1772. This Polish time was the most prosperous time for Lubovna and the area.

                        Maly Sulin was across the county line and in Saris County. The border was very close to the creek coming from Velky Lipnik, where the mill used to be. The forestry office and the flour mill were both in Velky Sulin. There is one reference that refers to a glass foundry being established in Sulin in 1613, although current memory only extends back to the glass foundry in Maly Lipnik. (OK, 400 years is a long time to remember!) 

                        In searching arrivals in America I once ran across Szepesszulin written out as Lepesszulin, and
                        you will run across Maly Sulin as Palocsaszulin, Sárosszulin, as it was owned by lords living in Plavec who used the Paloc prefix sometimes. (anyone have a better explanation?)

                        If you are looking at 1805 marriage and records begin in 1795, you are unlikely to find the birth of your two people, and if the names of the parents was not on the film you looked at, they will also not be on the scans of those films. It seems you have traced the family back as far as you can.

                        Your only other hope is to check the additional copies of the register, as sometimes the 'bishop's copy' has more or less information than the 'original'. (I am guessing there are exceptions to which was written first, the 'original' or the 'bishop's copy).

                        If you know any different, or discover something new, please let me know. I am curious about Sulin as well!

                        Ron
                        PS. Michael, I drove that road from Sulin to Mnisek nad Popradom around 1997, and the family had a hard time believing I took a normal car over the route. The condition of the road/trail varies with rain and floods, and I did stop 3 times to sound out puddles along the way to make sure I would not drop a wheel. But then that is not an unusual caution in Alaska.


                      • htcstech
                        Maria Teresia s Urbanum of 1768 was a true watershed in the Austro-Hungarian Empire. A lot of churches were rebuilt and many were subject to the
                        Message 11 of 11 , Aug 20, 2014
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                          Maria Teresia's Urbanum of 1768 was a true watershed in the Austro-Hungarian Empire. A lot of churches were rebuilt and many were subject to the counter-Reformation (re-Catholicised in many cases). It was then, as the Urbanum reached various villages that new records began.
                          All those pre-Urbanum church records dating from before 1770 are missing, but I suspect that they are not lost but forgotten in some dusty library somewhere. I keep hoping that they'll turn up.
                          "Plavici were known as the Cumani" - Excellent! I really think that ethnic origins can contribute to good genealogy.

                          Peter M.


                          On 21 August 2014 12:06, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:
                          An excellent post Ron!

                          I do believe that if the death records could be found, then at least the birthdates can be worked out.

                          Peter M.


                          On 21 August 2014 10:48, amiak27@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                           

                          Andrea,I will add to what Michael and the others have to say, disagree with a bit of what has been said, and offer the history of Sulin as I know it. Right or wrong, I have been visiting there since 1970 and researching history, rather than genealogy.

                          On church records, I don't believe the Turks were primarily responsible for delay in establishing church records in North Hungary (Slovakia). It took some time, evidently a surprisingly long time, to determine what was needed in the records, who would record them, train the priests as record keepers, and resolve a standard format. You will note that in the change from paragraph format to tabular information.

                          The Sulin records are ALL on line, to the best of my knowledge. They begin about 1795, not earlier. Sulin today includes Velky Sulin, Maly Sulin and Zavodie. At one time Zavodie was included in the Mnisek nad Popradom records, I believe simply because of the physical need to reach the prime village of record. The roads or trails used to go up over the mountains and not along the river until quite recent times.  The road toward Sulin from Maly Lipnik was built in 1963 and reached the Sulin Spring. In 1968 the road was extended from the spring to the village of Maly Sulin. I do not know when the road to Zavodie was built, but there is quite a nice road (not trail by 1850 standards) that still exists over the mountain to Velky Sulin.

                          Velky Sulin and Zavodie were in old Spis county, and as part of the Lubovna area were pawned to Poland along with the other Spis towns, only to return to Austria-Hungary with the first partition of Poland in 1772. This Polish time was the most prosperous time for Lubovna and the area.

                          Maly Sulin was across the county line and in Saris County. The border was very close to the creek coming from Velky Lipnik, where the mill used to be. The forestry office and the flour mill were both in Velky Sulin. There is one reference that refers to a glass foundry being established in Sulin in 1613, although current memory only extends back to the glass foundry in Maly Lipnik. (OK, 400 years is a long time to remember!) 

                          In searching arrivals in America I once ran across Szepesszulin written out as Lepesszulin, and
                          you will run across Maly Sulin as Palocsaszulin, Sárosszulin, as it was owned by lords living in Plavec who used the Paloc prefix sometimes. (anyone have a better explanation?)

                          If you are looking at 1805 marriage and records begin in 1795, you are unlikely to find the birth of your two people, and if the names of the parents was not on the film you looked at, they will also not be on the scans of those films. It seems you have traced the family back as far as you can.

                          Your only other hope is to check the additional copies of the register, as sometimes the 'bishop's copy' has more or less information than the 'original'. (I am guessing there are exceptions to which was written first, the 'original' or the 'bishop's copy).

                          If you know any different, or discover something new, please let me know. I am curious about Sulin as well!

                          Ron
                          PS. Michael, I drove that road from Sulin to Mnisek nad Popradom around 1997, and the family had a hard time believing I took a normal car over the route. The condition of the road/trail varies with rain and floods, and I did stop 3 times to sound out puddles along the way to make sure I would not drop a wheel. But then that is not an unusual caution in Alaska.



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