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Re: [S-R] Re: surnames

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  • PopeBela@AOL.COM
    In a message dated 6/2/01 10:59:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, frankur@att.net ... Are you sure they re misspelled? In the church records their last names are as
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 2, 2001
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      In a message dated 6/2/01 10:59:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, frankur@...
      writes:


      > Don't know you surnames.
      > Expect the first 3 surnames were misspelled.
      > Are they pre-emigration or post-emigration spellings ?
      > Polanofsky is Slovak equivalent of Polish surname Polanowski.
      >

      Are you sure they're misspelled?
      In the church records their last names are as they appear. (In Latin of
      course)
      The Hlafka I first discovered in naturalization papers..."f"
      included...however I can easily see how it could be a "v" instead.
      What do you mean be devoiced? It wasn't spoken?

      I really appreciate your "two cents" :)
      I'm gaining more knowlege about it evreyday....from I can see it does look
      like an interesting place...I read it was a "Free City"..what exactly does
      that mean?

      Thanks again,
      Chris


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • frankur@att.net
      ... frankur@a... ... of ... Did you review the LDS microfilms for Gelnica (1695-1888) and find your surname s records and written in Latin ?
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 2, 2001
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        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., PopeBela@A... wrote:
        > In a message dated 6/2/01 10:59:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
        frankur@a...
        > writes:
        >
        >
        > > Don't know you surnames.
        > > Expect the first 3 surnames were misspelled.
        > > Are they pre-emigration or post-emigration spellings ?
        > > Polanofsky is Slovak equivalent of Polish surname Polanowski.
        > >
        >
        > Are you sure they're misspelled?
        > In the church records their last names are as they appear. (In Latin
        of
        > course)

        Did you review the LDS microfilms for Gelnica (1695-1888) and find
        your surname's records and written in Latin ?

        http://www.bmi.net/jjaso//


        > The Hlafka I first discovered in naturalization papers..."f"
        > included...however I can easily see how it could be a "v" instead.

        When I discovered my GF's naturalization papers, they listed wrong
        country, wrong village of origin , wrong surname spelling (Hungarian),
        wrong ship, wrong date of arrival, and wrong emperor to renounce
        his allegiance from.

        In fact, most American documentation from pre-WW I eras are suspect.
        In those days the listener (clerk, official, priest etc) wrote down
        what he thought the emigrant said in reply to his questions.
        Some immigrants spoke many languages but were illiterate.
        Nobody checked for correctness.
        Preciseness in spelling is a modern day convention.

        > What do you mean be devoiced? It wasn't spoken?

        Jonathan Shea & William Hoffman have just published a new book
        A Genalogist's Translation Guide to Polish, Germen, Latin, and Russian
        Documents
        Several chapters are devoted to common erroneous spellings of
        surnames.

        Since the Ellis Island Emigrant Web site went online receive dozens of
        queries each email dump requesting " where is " and " what is " ?

        For example, a place name in Upper-Hungary (now Slovakia) can have 10
        incorrect spellings and a surname 3-4 alternative spellings in the
        EI Passenger Records.


        > I really appreciate your "two cents" :)
        > I'm gaining more knowlege about it evreyday....from I can see it
        does look
        > like an interesting place...I read it was a "Free City"..what
        exactly does
        > that mean?

        You possibly read about German Law ?

        Among the earliest German colonies were those begun in the late
        12th c in Transylvania and in the mountainous area of Spis^/Zips/
        Szepes county in northern Hungary near the towns of Levoc^a (Sv)/
        Leutschau (G) and Kez^marok (Sv)/Késmárk (H)/Käsmarkt(G)
        The Spis^ enclave was expanded through special privileges granted in
        1224 and 1271.
        It was at this time that the "Saxons" (actually not from Saxony but
        from the Rhineland) came in large numbers.

        The German colonists brought legal models that formed the basis of
        their
        special privileged status. Called 'German City Law' these meant that
        they could within their "new cities" direct their economic activity
        and
        govern themseleves through an elected city council.
        South German Law (based on models of Nürnberg or Vienna) was adopted
        for
        Levoc^a (Sv) Lo"cse (H) Leutschau (G), Kos^ice (Sv) Kassa (H) Kaschau
        (G),
        Kez^marok (Sv) Késmárk (H) Käsmarkt (G), and Pres^ov (Sv) Epérjes (H)
        Preschau (G)


        >
        > Thanks again,
        > Chris

        v
        Frank Kurcina
      • Ron Matviyak
        Hi PopeBela! Personally I hesitate to say some ancestor misspelled a family name . I buy into the idea that spellings changed with time, politics, literacy
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 2, 2001
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          Hi PopeBela!

          Personally I hesitate to say some ancestor 'misspelled' a family name'. I
          buy into the idea that spellings changed with time, politics, literacy and
          downright choice of the ancestors to change names as they wished.

          Identification of villages can be even more fun!

          Today the village of Sulin on the Poprad river NE of Stara Lubovna consists
          of the settlements Velke Sulin, which was in Szepes county, Zavodie which
          was a few km downstream and also in Szepes, and Maly Sulin which was
          upstream and in Saris county. These are some of the fascinating spellings
          and references that were made to the three settlements. I put the
          variations down to the pronunciation of the traveler as much as the
          recorder:

          Maly Lulin, Cz. Slov.
          Sarosszulin, Hungary
          Soroszulia, Hungary
          Saros Lzulin
          Sara Szulise
          Sulin, Hungary
          Tzulin
          Yzulin
          .ulin, Hungary
          S. Szulin, Hungary

          Szepesszulin, Hungary
          Lzepeszulin, Hungary
          Hungary Lzewesszulin
          Sz Szulin
          Note no "Nagy Sulin" for "Velky" or "Large Sulin" despite "Hungary" as
          country, and the Hungarian "Sz" in place of the Slovak "Sulin" & Rusyn
          "Sulyn"..

          And maybe :
          Synlin
          Virulin, Hungary

          I still haven't found the "Paloci Szulin, Palais Szulin" that I have seen on
          some records. This meaning has me mystified, along with the newly
          discovered "Lzewesszulin".

          And finally, just a bit farther downstream I found some people traveling
          from modern "Medzibrodie, Slovakia" who claimed to be from "Miedzzbodzie,
          Galizia". I'll have to call up those old map boundaries and see if the old
          border crossed the Poprad river once again! I find it fascinating.

          Ron



          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., PopeBela@A... wrote:

          > > Are you sure they're misspelled?
          > > In the church records their last names are as they appear. (In Latin
          > of
          > > course)
          >
          > Did you review the LDS microfilms for Gelnica (1695-1888) and find
          > your surname's records and written in Latin ?
          >
          > http://www.bmi.net/jjaso//
          >

          > Preciseness in spelling is a modern day convention.
          > For example, a place name in Upper-Hungary (now Slovakia) can have 10
          > incorrect spellings and a surname 3-4 alternative spellings in the
          > EI Passenger Records
        • Mary Hudec
          Hi Everyone, I ve been researching my Slovak side and am stuck in the 1820s or so. On one side I m looking for Hudec. Josef Hudec was born Oct 12,1849 son of
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 3, 2001
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            Hi Everyone,

            I've been researching my Slovak side and am stuck in
            the 1820s or so. On one side I'm looking for Hudec.
            Josef Hudec was born Oct 12,1849 son of Michal Hudec
            and Josefina (Raucina) Hudec. He married Filomena
            Matura born Feb 23 1861. She was the daughter of
            Frantisek Matura and Josefina Matura. Relatives have
            told me that they were from Bratislava.

            Thanks
            Mary


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          • icieyh@yahoo.com
            Hi I m from Bratislava (Slovakia) and one my friend is called Michaela Hudecova... her brother is Pavol Hudec and their parents... Pavol and .... well, I don t
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 4, 2001
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              Hi I'm from Bratislava (Slovakia) and one my friend is called
              Michaela Hudecova... her brother is Pavol Hudec and their parents...
              Pavol and .... well, I don't remember their mom's name, Hudec, so
              when I go to see her, I can ask...


              Icie


              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@y..., Mary Hudec <hawaiihudec@y...> wrote:
              > Hi Everyone,
              >
              > I've been researching my Slovak side and am stuck in
              > the 1820s or so. On one side I'm looking for Hudec.
              > Josef Hudec was born Oct 12,1849 son of Michal Hudec
              > and Josefina (Raucina) Hudec. He married Filomena
              > Matura born Feb 23 1861. She was the daughter of
              > Frantisek Matura and Josefina Matura. Relatives have
              > told me that they were from Bratislava.
              >
              > Thanks
              > Mary
              >
              >
              > __________________________________________________
              > Do You Yahoo!?
              > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
              > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
            • John Venham
              Hello Can anyone recommend current newsgroups similar to the Slovak-Roots, but concerning the Czech Rep/Bohemia? Thanks JV
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 4, 2001
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                Hello

                Can anyone recommend current newsgroups similar to the
                Slovak-Roots, but concerning the Czech Rep/Bohemia?

                Thanks

                JV

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                Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
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              • Eric Haas
                Monday, June 04, 2001, 9:39:43 AM, you wrote: JV Hello JV Can anyone recommend current newsgroups similar to the JV Slovak-Roots, but concerning the Czech
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 4, 2001
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                  Monday, June 04, 2001, 9:39:43 AM, you wrote:

                  JV> Hello

                  JV> Can anyone recommend current newsgroups similar to the
                  JV> Slovak-Roots, but concerning the Czech Rep/Bohemia?

                  Do you mean newsgroups or mailing lists? Roots Web has a mailing list
                  specific to the Czech Republic and Bohemia. To subscribe, send an
                  e-mail to CZECH-L-REQUEST@... (or
                  CZECH-D-REQUEST@... for the digest mode) with just the word
                  "subscribe" in the body.


                  If you really wanted a newsgroup, not a mailing list, then
                  soc.genealogy.slavic is as close as you are going to get.
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