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RE: Slovak Research

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  • ktlrchk
    Dave, To expand a bit more on Margo and Larry s messages, the Patent of Toleration was issued by Austria in 1781. This provided religous freedom to non-Roman
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 5, 2013

       Dave,

      To expand a bit more on Margo' and Larry's messages, the Patent of Toleration was issued by Austria in 1781.  This provided religous freedom to non-Roman Catholic faiths in the empire.  Consequently, there was an explosion of churches built for various faiths in the 1780s.  These new churches began keeping their own records which had previously been kept in many cases by the Catholic church for the other faiths.

      CK



      ---In slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com, <margolane61@...> wrote:

      Dave, please let me expand on Larry's comments.

      Religious faiths in addition to Roman Catholic also kept records:  Lutheran (AC), Jewish, Greek Catholic, etc.

      By law, the nobility was exempted from taxes.  It was the serfs (colonus, inquilinus) and freed (libertinus) who paid taxes and are listed on the tax rolls of 1828, the 1770s, 1720 and 1715 which are readily available via LDS (1715 and 1720 also online).  The tax rolls list who (heads of household) was where -- it does not specify relationships between people.  The 1869 census is not available for all counties.

      Margo


      From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, October 5, 2013 12:19 AM
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Research

       
      Dave
       have you ever used LDS [familysearch] to find church records?
       That's where I got all the ones in my trees....and for pre 1895 records it's what the professional researches use.
       Before 1895 the catholic churches were the only ones keeping track of birth/baptism, marriage, and death records except for a period during the 1840s and 1850s. Some local municipalities might have kept track but the royal families of the Kingdom of Hungary did not.
        in 1895 the Hungarian government made the churches turn over their records, which they did but made copies to keep for themselves. So after 1895 the church and the government kept records.
       The Hungarians weren't concerned about the sacraments people received [baptism, marriage, last rites, etc.], that was basically church business.
       The Hungarians did take census', but that was for tax purposes. those census records aren't much use to genealogists because they only noted property owners or people of wealth [for taxes]. the majority of Slovaks were peasant class and had nothing to tax, so they weren't noted. the one exception was the 1869 census. That was just after the 1867 war between Austria and Hungary that led to the combined Empire [Austro-Hungarian] The Austrians won that war and kept better records than the previous Kingdom of Hungry.  Anywho; that 1869 census list everyone in the empire and is very complete even describing the house, outbuildings and listing all livestock. The 1869 census is also available at LDS and is excellent for confirming data in the church records
       As for supporting documentation the church records actually verify themselves in a few different ways. You can match people to a certain family by using and cross confirming birth, marriage and death.
        What I use in birth records is house numbers, and god parents and family "do" names.
      You can find those house numbers and do names in a lot of marriage and death records too.
       With god parents usually all siblings will have the same ones. Usually the godfather will be a witness at the god child's wedding.
        So once you start amassing the records you will see how these things match up to confirm what family a person belongs to.
       I mentioned I "batch" records when I research, so I end up with all the people of a certain  family name. going by date and using what I mentioned above and sometimes a little logic families start coming together
       of course there are always glitches and errors in the records but overall it's like putting together a jig saw puzzle. By batching you have all the pieces and the more you match up, the smaller the pile gets and like a puzzle it gets easier.
       
        I have a tendency to digress so I'll spare you any more babbling Dave.
       
        Larry
         Do you have your tree online? If so could I view it?

      From: "David Burnisky" <burniskyd@...>
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, October 4, 2013 5:35:52 PM
      Subject: [S-R] Slovak Research

      I hired a gentleman in Slovakia to do research for me.  He came back with
      only church records.  Here in the US we normally seek additional supporting
      evidence to be certain we have selected the correct relationships.  In
      Slovakia what other records or "proof" might be available to be certain you
      have matched the correct people?

      Thank you,
      Dave


    • Margo Smith
      Well, it s been a long time, so I might not remember the steps to get there in correct order.  Go to the old LDS web site.  Library. Catalog.  Search for
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 5, 2013
        Well, it's been a long time, so I might not remember the steps to get there in correct order.  Go to the old LDS web site.  Library. Catalog.  Search for place:  insert name of old county, part of Slovakia.  You'll get a long list of what is available for that county.  Scroll down to the specific tax record and you can get the number of the reel of microfilm to order from LDS to view at your Family History Center.

        Example.  I work in Turiec County.  Tax records for Turiec (Turocz) are:
        1828 tax list:  Films # 0623163-0623164
        1715 and 1720 tax lists:  Films 1506126 and 1529565
        1767-1773 land tenancy records:  Films 1529915-1529918

        They list the taxpayers.  Also, for 1828, 1767-1773, and 1720 the feudal lords to whom the serfs are perpetually obligated.

        1715 is online at the Hungarian National Archives arcanum.hu  Click on the 1715 census from the list on the left edge.  A list of the counties will appear in a column on the left edge.  Click on the name of the county you seek.  A list of the villages will appear in the column on the left edge.  Click on the name of the village you seek.  Then you should see the typed list of names of taxpayers.  Click to see the actual handwritten list.  For Turiec villages, you get the name of the taxpayer, status, size of farmstead, volume of taxable grain, size of meadows, no vineyards there.  And following, a paragraph or 2 describing the ag. economy of the village: the fields are divided into the 3 part system, quality of woods, quality of meadows, etc. . . .   So you can see how your ancestor fits into his village.

        If you do not find the name you seek, that does not mean he was not there.  More than 1 nuclear family might live in a taxable household.

        Enjoy!

        Margo


        From: David Burnisky <burniskyd@...>
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:31 AM
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Research

         
        Thanks Margo,

        How does one find the tax rolls on the LDS site?

        Dave


        On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Margo Smith <margolane61@...> wrote:
         
        Dave, please let me expand on Larry's comments.

        Religious faiths in addition to Roman Catholic also kept records:  Lutheran (AC), Jewish, Greek Catholic, etc.

        By law, the nobility was exempted from taxes.  It was the serfs (colonus, inquilinus) and freed (libertinus) who paid taxes and are listed on the tax rolls of 1828, the 1770s, 1720 and 1715 which are readily available via LDS (1715 and 1720 also online).  The tax rolls list who (heads of household) was where -- it does not specify relationships between people.  The 1869 census is not available for all counties.

        Margo


        From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, October 5, 2013 12:19 AM
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Slovak Research

         
        Dave
         have you ever used LDS [familysearch] to find church records?
         That's where I got all the ones in my trees....and for pre 1895 records it's what the professional researches use.
         Before 1895 the catholic churches were the only ones keeping track of birth/baptism, marriage, and death records except for a period during the 1840s and 1850s. Some local municipalities might have kept track but the royal families of the Kingdom of Hungary did not.
          in 1895 the Hungarian government made the churches turn over their records, which they did but made copies to keep for themselves. So after 1895 the church and the government kept records.
         The Hungarians weren't concerned about the sacraments people received [baptism, marriage, last rites, etc.], that was basically church business.
         The Hungarians did take census', but that was for tax purposes. those census records aren't much use to genealogists because they only noted property owners or people of wealth [for taxes]. the majority of Slovaks were peasant class and had nothing to tax, so they weren't noted. the one exception was the 1869 census. That was just after the 1867 war between Austria and Hungary that led to the combined Empire [Austro-Hungarian] The Austrians won that war and kept better records than the previous Kingdom of Hungry.  Anywho; that 1869 census list everyone in the empire and is very complete even describing the house, outbuildings and listing all livestock. The 1869 census is also available at LDS and is excellent for confirming data in the church records
         As for supporting documentation the church records actually verify themselves in a few different ways. You can match people to a certain family by using and cross confirming birth, marriage and death.
          What I use in birth records is house numbers, and god parents and family "do" names.
        You can find those house numbers and do names in a lot of marriage and death records too.
         With god parents usually all siblings will have the same ones. Usually the godfather will be a witness at the god child's wedding.
          So once you start amassing the records you will see how these things match up to confirm what family a person belongs to.
         I mentioned I "batch" records when I research, so I end up with all the people of a certain  family name. going by date and using what I mentioned above and sometimes a little logic families start coming together
         of course there are always glitches and errors in the records but overall it's like putting together a jig saw puzzle. By batching you have all the pieces and the more you match up, the smaller the pile gets and like a puzzle it gets easier.
         
          I have a tendency to digress so I'll spare you any more babbling Dave.
         
          Larry
           Do you have your tree online? If so could I view it?

        From: "David Burnisky" <burniskyd@...>
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, October 4, 2013 5:35:52 PM
        Subject: [S-R] Slovak Research

        I hired a gentleman in Slovakia to do research for me.  He came back with
        only church records.  Here in the US we normally seek additional supporting
        evidence to be certain we have selected the correct relationships.  In
        Slovakia what other records or "proof" might be available to be certain you
        have matched the correct people?

        Thank you,
        Dave





      • kate_inthedesert
        Thank you, David, for asking this question. If you hadn t, and people hadn t given such full replies, I d never have been up late last night finding my family
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 7, 2013

          Thank you, David, for asking this question.  If you hadn't, and people hadn't given such full replies, I'd never have been up late last night finding my family online in the 1715 census (Lohoniecz) and the 1720 tax list (Lohaniecz) in the little rural town of Volicza.


          Thanks to all for such helpful responses, including the heads-up on where to find the Hungarian records online, and to those who explained the Patent of Toleration.  Question: do any of you have either proof or hearsay from relatives that different religious denominations got along in the villages without too much friction in the 19th century?


          Thanks, Kate

          -- p.s. I can't seem to figure out how to control the size of the font; it's getting bigger by the paragraph.  What am I doing wrong?



          ---In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          I hired a gentleman in Slovakia to do research for me.  He came back with only church records.  Here in the US we normally seek additional supporting evidence to be certain we have selected the correct relationships.  In Slovakia what other records or "proof" might be available to be certain you have matched the correct people?

          Thank you,
          Dave
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