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Re: [S-R] Ashkenazi Jewish

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  • Alexandra Vargovits
    I think it s possible. According to the 1869 census, abt. 15% of the inhabitants were jewish in Nacina Ves. Lexy ________________________________ From:
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 17 10:34 PM
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      I think it's possible. According to the 1869 census, abt. 15% of the inhabitants were jewish in Nacina Ves.

      Lexy


      From: "breny@..." <breny@...>
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 2:44 PM
      Subject: [S-R] Ashkenazi Jewish

       
      In DNA testing my daughter was found to have .2% of Ashkenazi.  Since this did not show up on my DNA, I have to assume it came from her father who is 50% Slovak from  current county: Kosice county - Eastern Slovakia \ former county: Zemplen / Zemplin county \ Nacina_Ves

      Does anyone know if any Ashkenazi Jews would have settled here and assumed the slovak nationality?

      My husband does not know his birth father so it's possible that this could be from that unknown ancestry.  Also he is no longer living and therefore we cannot test his DNA.


    • John Yowpa III
      Where did your DNA testing get done? Whomever did it, you have to remember that low % numbers in 1 person do not always tell the full story. Markers are still
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 18 9:42 AM
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        Where did your DNA testing get done? Whomever did it, you have to remember that low % numbers in 1 person do not always tell the full story.  Markers are still low in number which makes them have low resolution or precision (not sure what term is best).  Your daughter may be .2% Ashkenazi Jew because she has 0.2% of the inherited markers. She may have a higher amount of DNA, or a lower amount. That being said, finds like that are always very interesting.

        For my DNA from the ancestry beta, I am missing my Southern European which comprises at least 1/8 of my ancestors (Italian). This could mean either I did not inherit the correct markers, I truly did not inherit much of my Italian ancestral DNA, or my ancestors from Italy were from neighboring areas.  It would be interesting to test my brother, mom, dad and kids Eventually :) But I think I want to use a better test in the future. 


        On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 1:34 AM, Alexandra Vargovits <alexandravargovits@...> wrote:
         

        I think it's possible. According to the 1869 census, abt. 15% of the inhabitants were jewish in Nacina Ves.

        Lexy


        From: "breny@..." <breny@...>
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 2:44 PM
        Subject: [S-R] Ashkenazi Jewish

         
        In DNA testing my daughter was found to have .2% of Ashkenazi.  Since this did not show up on my DNA, I have to assume it came from her father who is 50% Slovak from  current county: Kosice county - Eastern Slovakia \ former county: Zemplen / Zemplin county \ Nacina_Ves

        Does anyone know if any Ashkenazi Jews would have settled here and assumed the slovak nationality?

        My husband does not know his birth father so it's possible that this could be from that unknown ancestry.  Also he is no longer living and therefore we cannot test his DNA.





        --
        John Yowpa III, MD
      • bassfantastic
        This DNA was done by 23andme.com. I also had DNA done for me and my daughter at Ancestry.com. Ancestry didn t show this Jewish marker for either of us. What is
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 18 11:10 AM
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          This DNA was done by 23andme.com.   I also had DNA done for me and my daughter at Ancestry.com.  Ancestry didn't show this Jewish marker for either of us.

          What is says at 23andme is this: DNA shows clearly the connections among those who consider themselves to be Ashkenazi Jewish: two Ashkenazi Jewish people are very likely to be "genetic cousins", sharing long stretches of identical DNA. This sharing reflects the close knit nature of this population. 



          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          Where did your DNA testing get done? Whomever did it, you have to remember that low % numbers in 1 person do not always tell the full story.  Markers are still low in number which makes them have low resolution or precision (not sure what term is best).  Your daughter may be .2% Ashkenazi Jew because she has 0.2% of the inherited markers. She may have a higher amount of DNA, or a lower amount. That being said, finds like that are always very interesting.

          For my DNA from the ancestry beta, I am missing my Southern European which comprises at least 1/8 of my ancestors (Italian). This could mean either I did not inherit the correct markers, I truly did not inherit much of my Italian ancestral DNA, or my ancestors from Italy were from neighboring areas.  It would be interesting to test my brother, mom, dad and kids Eventually :) But I think I want to use a better test in the future. 


          On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 1:34 AM, Alexandra Vargovits <alexandravargovits@...> wrote:
           
          I think it's possible. According to the 1869 census, abt. 15% of the inhabitants were jewish in Nacina Ves.

          Lexy


          From: "breny@..." <breny@...>
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 2:44 PM
          Subject: [S-R] Ashkenazi Jewish

           
          In DNA testing my daughter was found to have .2% of Ashkenazi.  Since this did not show up on my DNA, I have to assume it came from her father who is 50% Slovak from  current county: Kosice county - Eastern Slovakia \ former county: Zemplen / Zemplin county \ Nacina_Ves

          Does anyone know if any Ashkenazi Jews would have settled here and assumed the slovak nationality?

          My husband does not know his birth father so it's possible that this could be from that unknown ancestry.  Also he is no longer living and therefore we cannot test his DNA.





          --
          John Yowpa III, MD
        • William C. Wormuth
          Since Jews were assigned by the Monarchy to be tax collectors, most towns i have visited had a Jewish population. In my ancestral village, of an average of
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 18 11:56 AM
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            Since Jews were assigned by the Monarchy to be tax collectors, most towns i have visited had a Jewish population. In my ancestral village, of an average of 3000 people, there was a synagog and a Jewish school.  During those times, Jews were the only owners of businesses.  This is because they were well paid by the monarchy.
            Young people then,(as now),  had friends with people their age, some experimenting with sex, resulting in pregnancies.
             If you have ever viewed the LDS records, you might have noticed the columns, on the birth records, Legitimate and illegitimate.  There are considerable numbers of illegitimate births and they do not necessarily result in marriages.  I have known families who have had Romi blood and some of the children have darker skin.

            Vilo



            From: John Yowpa III <johnyowpa.iii@...>
            To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 12:42 PM
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Ashkenazi Jewish

             
            Where did your DNA testing get done? Whomever did it, you have to remember that low % numbers in 1 person do not always tell the full story.  Markers are still low in number which makes them have low resolution or precision (not sure what term is best).  Your daughter may be .2% Ashkenazi Jew because she has 0.2% of the inherited markers. She may have a higher amount of DNA, or a lower amount. That being said, finds like that are always very interesting.

            For my DNA from the ancestry beta, I am missing my Southern European which comprises at least 1/8 of my ancestors (Italian). This could mean either I did not inherit the correct markers, I truly did not inherit much of my Italian ancestral DNA, or my ancestors from Italy were from neighboring areas.  It would be interesting to test my brother, mom, dad and kids Eventually :) But I think I want to use a better test in the future. 


            On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 1:34 AM, Alexandra Vargovits <alexandravargovits@...> wrote:
             
            I think it's possible. According to the 1869 census, abt. 15% of the inhabitants were jewish in Nacina Ves.

            Lexy


            From: "breny@..." <breny@...>
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 2:44 PM
            Subject: [S-R] Ashkenazi Jewish

             
            In DNA testing my daughter was found to have .2% of Ashkenazi.  Since this did not show up on my DNA, I have to assume it came from her father who is 50% Slovak from  current county: Kosice county - Eastern Slovakia \ former county: Zemplen / Zemplin county \ Nacina_Ves

            Does anyone know if any Ashkenazi Jews would have settled here and assumed the slovak nationality?

            My husband does not know his birth father so it's possible that this could be from that unknown ancestry.  Also he is no longer living and therefore we cannot test his DNA.





            --
            John Yowpa III, MD


          • curtbocha
            The difference in the tests may well bring a difference of results. The ancestry.com test is not well thought of among DNA testers and has frequently been
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 18 12:40 PM
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               The difference in the tests may well bring a  difference of results.  The ancestry.com test is not well thought of among DNA testers and has frequently been found in errror because it does not check a suffficient number of markers nor have a large data base for comparison.  23 & me is much better but not foolproof.  To know with better certainty you need to be tested with the same one your daughter used, and your husband as well.  There are additional special tests available, but they cost about $300 per person.

               

              Curt B.



              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

              This DNA was done by 23andme.com.   I also had DNA done for me and my daughter at Ancestry.com.  Ancestry didn't show this Jewish marker for either of us.

              What is says at 23andme is this: DNA shows clearly the connections among those who consider themselves to be Ashkenazi Jewish: two Ashkenazi Jewish people are very likely to be "genetic cousins", sharing long stretches of identical DNA. This sharing reflects the close knit nature of this population. 



              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

              Where did your DNA testing get done? Whomever did it, you have to remember that low % numbers in 1 person do not always tell the full story.  Markers are still low in number which makes them have low resolution or precision (not sure what term is best).  Your daughter may be .2% Ashkenazi Jew because she has 0.2% of the inherited markers. She may have a higher amount of DNA, or a lower amount. That being said, finds like that are always very interesting.

              For my DNA from the ancestry beta, I am missing my Southern European which comprises at least 1/8 of my ancestors (Italian). This could mean either I did not inherit the correct markers, I truly did not inherit much of my Italian ancestral DNA, or my ancestors from Italy were from neighboring areas.  It would be interesting to test my brother, mom, dad and kids Eventually :) But I think I want to use a better test in the future. 


              On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 1:34 AM, Alexandra Vargovits <alexandravargovits@...> wrote:
               
              I think it's possible. According to the 1869 census, abt. 15% of the inhabitants were jewish in Nacina Ves.

              Lexy

              From: "breny@..." <breny@...>
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 2:44 PM
              Subject: [S-R] Ashkenazi Jewish

               
              In DNA testing my daughter was found to have .2% of Ashkenazi.  Since this did not show up on my DNA, I have to assume it came from her father who is 50% Slovak from  current county: Kosice county - Eastern Slovakia \ former county: Zemplen / Zemplin county \ Nacina_Ves

              Does anyone know if any Ashkenazi Jews would have settled here and assumed the slovak nationality?

              My husband does not know his birth father so it's possible that this could be from that unknown ancestry.  Also he is no longer living and therefore we cannot test his DNA.





              --
              John Yowpa III, MD
            • bassfantastic
              Both my daughter and I had DNA done at 23andme and ancestry. The only test showing the Ashkenazi was on her 23andme DNA test. I cannot get my husband done
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 18 10:15 PM
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                Both my daughter and I had DNA done at 23andme and ancestry.   The only test showing the Ashkenazi was on her 23andme DNA test.  I cannot get my husband done because he is no longer living and has only half sisters that we are not close to at all. 



                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                 The difference in the tests may well bring a  difference of results.  The ancestry.com test is not well thought of among DNA testers and has frequently been found in errror because it does not check a suffficient number of markers nor have a large data base for comparison.  23 & me is much better but not foolproof.  To know with better certainty you need to be tested with the same one your daughter used, and your husband as well.  There are additional special tests available, but they cost about $300 per person.

                 

                Curt B.



                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                This DNA was done by 23andme.com.   I also had DNA done for me and my daughter at Ancestry.com.  Ancestry didn't show this Jewish marker for either of us.

                What is says at 23andme is this: DNA shows clearly the connections among those who consider themselves to be Ashkenazi Jewish: two Ashkenazi Jewish people are very likely to be "genetic cousins", sharing long stretches of identical DNA. This sharing reflects the close knit nature of this population. 



                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                Where did your DNA testing get done? Whomever did it, you have to remember that low % numbers in 1 person do not always tell the full story.  Markers are still low in number which makes them have low resolution or precision (not sure what term is best).  Your daughter may be .2% Ashkenazi Jew because she has 0.2% of the inherited markers. She may have a higher amount of DNA, or a lower amount. That being said, finds like that are always very interesting.

                For my DNA from the ancestry beta, I am missing my Southern European which comprises at least 1/8 of my ancestors (Italian). This could mean either I did not inherit the correct markers, I truly did not inherit much of my Italian ancestral DNA, or my ancestors from Italy were from neighboring areas.  It would be interesting to test my brother, mom, dad and kids Eventually :) But I think I want to use a better test in the future. 


                On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 1:34 AM, Alexandra Vargovits <alexandravargovits@...> wrote:
                 
                I think it's possible. According to the 1869 census, abt. 15% of the inhabitants were jewish in Nacina Ves.

                Lexy

                From: "breny@..." <breny@...>
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 2:44 PM
                Subject: [S-R] Ashkenazi Jewish

                 
                In DNA testing my daughter was found to have .2% of Ashkenazi.  Since this did not show up on my DNA, I have to assume it came from her father who is 50% Slovak from  current county: Kosice county - Eastern Slovakia \ former county: Zemplen / Zemplin county \ Nacina_Ves

                Does anyone know if any Ashkenazi Jews would have settled here and assumed the slovak nationality?

                My husband does not know his birth father so it's possible that this could be from that unknown ancestry.  Also he is no longer living and therefore we cannot test his DNA.





                --
                John Yowpa III, MD
              • amiak27
                bas, Females lack the Y chromosome and therefore it would seem a DNA test would give only the maternal mitochondrial DNA. So I would look again at your
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 19 6:24 AM
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                  bas,

                  Females lack the Y chromosome and therefore it would seem a DNA test would give only the maternal mitochondrial DNA.  So I would look again at your conclusions that it must come through the father.

                  23 and me uses a lot of waffle words wit "among those who consider themselves to be Ashkenazi Jewish" . 
                  I am not sure what that means. Certainly Slovakia (Hungary) and Poland had Jewish populations for centuries, so any degree of mixture is possible, but that holds true most everywhere. I believe Poland had such a large Jewish population because they had such a high degree of religious tolerance, so they took on many refugees driven out of other arts of Europe. Austria-Hungary did not enjoy such freedom.

                  I did a search on "allele proof of Jewish heritage" and one site came up with a (kind of) clear description of how the probability is reasoned out. It seems written by a professional in the voice of an amateur discovering the connection for the first time. This would seem to be the relevant part:

                  " In that study, the authors identified two major components of variation in ancestry, roughly corresponding to three clusters of individuals: those of predominantly northwest European descent, southeast European descent, and Ashkenazi Jewish descent. They assembled a list of ~300 genetic markers which were highly informative about ancestry in their sample, and made publicly available the allele frequencies of those markers in the three groups.

                  What Dienekes’s program does is use those allele frequencies (at the ~150 markers that are included in the 23andMe genotyping platform) to infer the proportional membership of an individual in each group. For example, if an individual has the genotype CC at a SNP, and the C allele has 20% frequency in northwestern Europe and 60% frequency in the Ashkenazi, that provides some evidence that the individual in question is more likely to be Ashkenazi. Summed across all loci, one can estimate the overall fraction of the genome of the individual from each group."


                  http://www.genomesunzipped.org/2010/10/testing-possibilities-about-my-ancestry.php

                  The title of that writeup is "Am I partly Jewish? Testing ancestry hypotheses with 23andMe data"



                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  Both my daughter and I had DNA done at 23andme and ancestry.   The only test showing the Ashkenazi was on her 23andme DNA test.  I cannot get my husband done because he is no longer living and has only half sisters that we are not close to at all. 



                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                   The difference in the tests may well bring a  difference of results.  The ancestry.com test is not well thought of among DNA testers and has frequently been found in errror because it does not check a suffficient number of markers nor have a large data base for comparison.  23 & me is much better but not foolproof.  To know with better certainty you need to be tested with the same one your daughter used, and your husband as well.  There are additional special tests available, but they cost about $300 per person.

                   

                  Curt B.



                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  This DNA was done by 23andme.com.   I also had DNA done for me and my daughter at Ancestry.com.  Ancestry didn't show this Jewish marker for either of us.

                  What is says at 23andme is this: DNA shows clearly the connections among those who consider themselves to be Ashkenazi Jewish: two Ashkenazi Jewish people are very likely to be "genetic cousins", sharing long stretches of identical DNA. This sharing reflects the close knit nature of this population. 



                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  Where did your DNA testing get done? Whomever did it, you have to remember that low % numbers in 1 person do not always tell the full story.  Markers are still low in number which makes them have low resolution or precision (not sure what term is best).  Your daughter may be .2% Ashkenazi Jew because she has 0.2% of the inherited markers. She may have a higher amount of DNA, or a lower amount. That being said, finds like that are always very interesting.

                  For my DNA from the ancestry beta, I am missing my Southern European which comprises at least 1/8 of my ancestors (Italian). This could mean either I did not inherit the correct markers, I truly did not inherit much of my Italian ancestral DNA, or my ancestors from Italy were from neighboring areas.  It would be interesting to test my brother, mom, dad and kids Eventually :) But I think I want to use a better test in the future. 


                  On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 1:34 AM, Alexandra Vargovits <alexandravargovits@...> wrote:
                   
                  I think it's possible. According to the 1869 census, abt. 15% of the inhabitants were jewish in Nacina Ves.

                  Lexy

                  From: "breny@..." <breny@...>
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 2:44 PM
                  Subject: [S-R] Ashkenazi Jewish

                   
                  In DNA testing my daughter was found to have .2% of Ashkenazi.  Since this did not show up on my DNA, I have to assume it came from her father who is 50% Slovak from  current county: Kosice county - Eastern Slovakia \ former county: Zemplen / Zemplin county \ Nacina_Ves

                  Does anyone know if any Ashkenazi Jews would have settled here and assumed the slovak nationality?

                  My husband does not know his birth father so it's possible that this could be from that unknown ancestry.  Also he is no longer living and therefore we cannot test his DNA.





                  --
                  John Yowpa III, MD
                • curtbocha
                  Ron & bas, So called ethnic DNA testing done by 23 & me and one other company is neither Y nor mitochondrial testing which are the direct paternal and maternal
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 19 1:22 PM
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                    Ron & bas,

                    So called ethnic DNA testing done by 23 & me and one other company is neither Y nor mitochondrial testing which are the direct paternal and maternal testing.  The shortcoming of Y and/or mito testing is that it proceeds only in a direct line so that it tells you something only about a tiny fraction of your ancestors.  For example, you have 16 great grandparents, but Y and mito testing tell men about only two of them, and women about 1 of them.

                     

                    So called ethnic testing is neither Y or mito, but samples another huge group of markers from your genome, attempting to capture something about the rest of the 16plus ancestors.  They compare this information to their large database of persons who self report ethnicities.  But remember that ethnicity is a self chosen identity, not a specific genetic or inherited trait.  So one person might self report as Ashkenazy Jewish, but have a close relative who reports as Slovak.  This is why the reporting of such testing "waffles" in their description. 

                     

                    So if someone has a report which says .2 percent Ashkenazy, it just means that one of their 800 or more closest ancestors was "likely" Ashkenazy Jewish.  The higher the percentage the more certain the likelyhood and the closer in time the ancestor lived.  So if you get a report which says 100 percent Ashkenazy it means that both your parents are most likely Ashkenazy Jewish. 

                     

                    curtb

                    eee--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    bas,

                    Females lack the Y chromosome and therefore it would seem a DNA test would give only the maternal mitochondrial DNA.  So I would look again at your conclusions that it must come through the father.

                    23 and me uses a lot of waffle words wit "among those who consider themselves to be Ashkenazi Jewish" . 
                    I am not sure what that means. Certainly Slovakia (Hungary) and Poland had Jewish populations for centuries, so any degree of mixture is possible, but that holds true most everywhere. I believe Poland had such a large Jewish population because they had such a high degree of religious tolerance, so they took on many refugees driven out of other arts of Europe. Austria-Hungary did not enjoy such freedom.

                    I did a search on "allele proof of Jewish heritage" and one site came up with a (kind of) clear description of how the probability is reasoned out. It seems written by a professional in the voice of an amateur discovering the connection for the first time. This would seem to be the relevant part:

                    " In that study, the authors identified two major components of variation in ancestry, roughly corresponding to three clusters of individuals: those of predominantly northwest European descent, southeast European descent, and Ashkenazi Jewish descent. They assembled a list of ~300 genetic markers which were highly informative about ancestry in their sample, and made publicly available the allele frequencies of those markers in the three groups.

                    What Dienekes’s program does is use those allele frequencies (at the ~150 markers that are included in the 23andMe genotyping platform) to infer the proportional membership of an individual in each group. For example, if an individual has the genotype CC at a SNP, and the C allele has 20% frequency in northwestern Europe and 60% frequency in the Ashkenazi, that provides some evidence that the individual in question is more likely to be Ashkenazi. Summed across all loci, one can estimate the overall fraction of the genome of the individual from each group."


                    http://www.genomesunzipped.org/2010/10/testing-possibilities-about-my-ancestry.php

                    The title of that writeup is "Am I partly Jewish? Testing ancestry hypotheses with 23andMe data"



                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    Both my daughter and I had DNA done at 23andme and ancestry.   The only test showing the Ashkenazi was on her 23andme DNA test.  I cannot get my husband done because he is no longer living and has only half sisters that we are not close to at all. 



                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                     The difference in the tests may well bring a  difference of results.  The ancestry.com test is not well thought of among DNA testers and has frequently been found in errror because it does not check a suffficient number of markers nor have a large data base for comparison.  23 & me is much better but not foolproof.  To know with better certainty you need to be tested with the same one your daughter used, and your husband as well.  There are additional special tests available, but they cost about $300 per person.

                     

                    Curt B.



                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    This DNA was done by 23andme.com.   I also had DNA done for me and my daughter at Ancestry.com.  Ancestry didn't show this Jewish marker for either of us.

                    What is says at 23andme is this: DNA shows clearly the connections among those who consider themselves to be Ashkenazi Jewish: two Ashkenazi Jewish people are very likely to be "genetic cousins", sharing long stretches of identical DNA. This sharing reflects the close knit nature of this population. 



                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    Where did your DNA testing get done? Whomever did it, you have to remember that low % numbers in 1 person do not always tell the full story.  Markers are still low in number which makes them have low resolution or precision (not sure what term is best).  Your daughter may be .2% Ashkenazi Jew because she has 0.2% of the inherited markers. She may have a higher amount of DNA, or a lower amount. That being said, finds like that are always very interesting.

                    For my DNA from the ancestry beta, I am missing my Southern European which comprises at least 1/8 of my ancestors (Italian). This could mean either I did not inherit the correct markers, I truly did not inherit much of my Italian ancestral DNA, or my ancestors from Italy were from neighboring areas.  It would be interesting to test my brother, mom, dad and kids Eventually :) But I think I want to use a better test in the future. 


                    On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 1:34 AM, Alexandra Vargovits <alexandravargovits@...> wrote:
                     
                    I think it's possible. According to the 1869 census, abt. 15% of the inhabitants were jewish in Nacina Ves.

                    Lexy

                    From: "breny@..." <breny@...>
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 2:44 PM
                    Subject: [S-R] Ashkenazi Jewish

                     
                    In DNA testing my daughter was found to have .2% of Ashkenazi.  Since this did not show up on my DNA, I have to assume it came from her father who is 50% Slovak from  current county: Kosice county - Eastern Slovakia \ former county: Zemplen / Zemplin county \ Nacina_Ves

                    Does anyone know if any Ashkenazi Jews would have settled here and assumed the slovak nationality?

                    My husband does not know his birth father so it's possible that this could be from that unknown ancestry.  Also he is no longer living and therefore we cannot test his DNA.





                    --
                    John Yowpa III, MD
                  • Ben Sorensen
                    Just curious (and because I am skeptical at best with DNA testing for genealogy as it does not give us a CLUE as to how the subjects self-identified to
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 20 4:26 AM
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                      Just curious (and because I am skeptical at best with DNA testing for genealogy as it does not give us a CLUE as to how the subjects self-identified to culture), but would not a DNA test for any Jewish population be better served by checking maternal lines? 
                      Ben


                      From: "amiak27@..." <amiak27@...>
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:24 AM
                      Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: Re: [S-R] Ashkenazi Jewish

                       
                      bas,

                      Females lack the Y chromosome and therefore it would seem a DNA test would give only the maternal mitochondrial DNA.  So I would look again at your conclusions that it must come through the father.

                      23 and me uses a lot of waffle words wit "among those who consider themselves to be Ashkenazi Jewish" . 
                      I am not sure what that means. Certainly Slovakia (Hungary) and Poland had Jewish populations for centuries, so any degree of mixture is possible, but that holds true most everywhere. I believe Poland had such a large Jewish population because they had such a high degree of religious tolerance, so they took on many refugees driven out of other arts of Europe. Austria-Hungary did not enjoy such freedom.

                      I did a search on "allele proof of Jewish heritage" and one site came up with a (kind of) clear description of how the probability is reasoned out. It seems written by a professional in the voice of an amateur discovering the connection for the first time. This would seem to be the relevant part:

                      " In that study, the authors identified two major components of variation in ancestry, roughly corresponding to three clusters of individuals: those of predominantly northwest European descent, southeast European descent, and Ashkenazi Jewish descent. They assembled a list of ~300 genetic markers which were highly informative about ancestry in their sample, and made publicly available the allele frequencies of those markers in the three groups.
                      What Dienekes’s program does is use those allele frequencies (at the ~150 markers that are included in the 23andMe genotyping platform) to infer the proportional membership of an individual in each group. For example, if an individual has the genotype CC at a SNP, and the C allele has 20% frequency in northwestern Europe and 60% frequency in the Ashkenazi, that provides some evidence that the individual in question is more likely to be Ashkenazi. Summed across all loci, one can estimate the overall fraction of the genome of the individual from each group."

                      http://www.genomesunzipped.org/2010/10/testing-possibilities-about-my-ancestry.php
                      The title of that writeup is "Am I partly Jewish? Testing ancestry hypotheses with 23andMe data"


                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      Both my daughter and I had DNA done at 23andme and ancestry.   The only test showing the Ashkenazi was on her 23andme DNA test.  I cannot get my husband done because he is no longer living and has only half sisters that we are not close to at all. 


                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                       The difference in the tests may well bring a  difference of results.  The ancestry.com test is not well thought of among DNA testers and has frequently been found in errror because it does not check a suffficient number of markers nor have a large data base for comparison.  23 & me is much better but not foolproof.  To know with better certainty you need to be tested with the same one your daughter used, and your husband as well.  There are additional special tests available, but they cost about $300 per person.
                       
                      Curt B.


                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      This DNA was done by 23andme.com.   I also had DNA done for me and my daughter at Ancestry.com.  Ancestry didn't show this Jewish marker for either of us.
                      What is says at 23andme is this: DNA shows clearly the connections among those who consider themselves to be Ashkenazi Jewish: two Ashkenazi Jewish people are very likely to be "genetic cousins", sharing long stretches of identical DNA. This sharing reflects the close knit nature of this population. 


                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      Where did your DNA testing get done? Whomever did it, you have to remember that low % numbers in 1 person do not always tell the full story.  Markers are still low in number which makes them have low resolution or precision (not sure what term is best).  Your daughter may be .2% Ashkenazi Jew because she has 0.2% of the inherited markers. She may have a higher amount of DNA, or a lower amount. That being said, finds like that are always very interesting.

                      For my DNA from the ancestry beta, I am missing my Southern European which comprises at least 1/8 of my ancestors (Italian). This could mean either I did not inherit the correct markers, I truly did not inherit much of my Italian ancestral DNA, or my ancestors from Italy were from neighboring areas.  It would be interesting to test my brother, mom, dad and kids Eventually :) But I think I want to use a better test in the future. 


                      On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 1:34 AM, Alexandra Vargovits <alexandravargovits@...> wrote:
                       
                      I think it's possible. According to the 1869 census, abt. 15% of the inhabitants were jewish in Nacina Ves.

                      Lexy

                      From: "breny@..." <breny@...>
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 2:44 PM
                      Subject: [S-R] Ashkenazi Jewish

                       
                      In DNA testing my daughter was found to have .2% of Ashkenazi.  Since this did not show up on my DNA, I have to assume it came from her father who is 50% Slovak from  current county: Kosice county - Eastern Slovakia \ former county: Zemplen / Zemplin county \ Nacina_Ves

                      Does anyone know if any Ashkenazi Jews would have settled here and assumed the slovak nationality?

                      My husband does not know his birth father so it's possible that this could be from that unknown ancestry.  Also he is no longer living and therefore we cannot test his DNA.





                      --
                      John Yowpa III, MD


                    • John Yowpa III
                      Ashkenazi genetics are an interesting example of genetically isolated populations in human medicine. There are classic medical conditions that are really
                      Message 10 of 14 , Sep 20 8:22 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Ashkenazi genetics are an interesting example of genetically isolated populations in human medicine. There are "classic" medical conditions that are really only found in this population due to their genetic isolation. There are plenty of other examples in humans but inherited diseases are well-studied, funded, and tested in medicine in the USA.. As mentioned, there are limits to any type of genetic testing currently available that is available on the common market. 
                        In terms of maternal and paternal lineage testing in this population, recent research has suggested that contrary to theories in the 1990s, maternal and paternal testing can reveal Ashkenazi ancestry, although the resolution of maternal testing is beyond that available on the common market. Prior to this high resolution analysis, it was thought that the male lineage came from Middle Eastern decent and the female lineage were incorporated from local populations after immigration to Europe..  Interestingly, Ashkenazi female lineage can now be traced back to 4 "founding females" or female progenitors. It is actually a very cool development.  Of course, we are talking thousands of years, so there are other genetic markers that are within isolated populations of Ashkenazis that may not be in others.
                        What it inevitably boils down to is that the current DNA testing on the market paints a broad brush that is also inaccurate. It is fun to see but really may not be helpful except in the condition of certain markers. In reality, this type of testing will be replaced by full genome sequencing over the next 20 years. A result of Ashkenazi ancestry is likely more valuable than a 50% central European result since Ashkenazi markers may be more indentifiable than other groups.
                        Population genetics is interesting :)


                        On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 7:26 AM, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:
                         

                        Just curious (and because I am skeptical at best with DNA testing for genealogy as it does not give us a CLUE as to how the subjects self-identified to culture), but would not a DNA test for any Jewish population be better served by checking maternal lines? 
                        Ben


                        From: "amiak27@..." <amiak27@...>
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:24 AM
                        Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: Re: [S-R] Ashkenazi Jewish

                         
                        bas,

                        Females lack the Y chromosome and therefore it would seem a DNA test would give only the maternal mitochondrial DNA.  So I would look again at your conclusions that it must come through the father.

                        23 and me uses a lot of waffle words wit "among those who consider themselves to be Ashkenazi Jewish" . 
                        I am not sure what that means. Certainly Slovakia (Hungary) and Poland had Jewish populations for centuries, so any degree of mixture is possible, but that holds true most everywhere. I believe Poland had such a large Jewish population because they had such a high degree of religious tolerance, so they took on many refugees driven out of other arts of Europe. Austria-Hungary did not enjoy such freedom.

                        I did a search on "allele proof of Jewish heritage" and one site came up with a (kind of) clear description of how the probability is reasoned out. It seems written by a professional in the voice of an amateur discovering the connection for the first time. This would seem to be the relevant part:

                        " In that study, the authors identified two major components of variation in ancestry, roughly corresponding to three clusters of individuals: those of predominantly northwest European descent, southeast European descent, and Ashkenazi Jewish descent. They assembled a list of ~300 genetic markers which were highly informative about ancestry in their sample, and made publicly available the allele frequencies of those markers in the three groups.
                        What Dienekes’s program does is use those allele frequencies (at the ~150 markers that are included in the 23andMe genotyping platform) to infer the proportional membership of an individual in each group. For example, if an individual has the genotype CC at a SNP, and the C allele has 20% frequency in northwestern Europe and 60% frequency in the Ashkenazi, that provides some evidence that the individual in question is more likely to be Ashkenazi. Summed across all loci, one can estimate the overall fraction of the genome of the individual from each group."

                        The title of that writeup is "Am I partly Jewish? Testing ancestry hypotheses with 23andMe data"


                        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                        Both my daughter and I had DNA done at 23andme and ancestry.   The only test showing the Ashkenazi was on her 23andme DNA test.  I cannot get my husband done because he is no longer living and has only half sisters that we are not close to at all. 


                        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                         The difference in the tests may well bring a  difference of results.  The ancestry.com test is not well thought of among DNA testers and has frequently been found in errror because it does not check a suffficient number of markers nor have a large data base for comparison.  23 & me is much better but not foolproof.  To know with better certainty you need to be tested with the same one your daughter used, and your husband as well.  There are additional special tests available, but they cost about $300 per person.
                         
                        Curt B.


                        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                        This DNA was done by 23andme.com.   I also had DNA done for me and my daughter at Ancestry.com.  Ancestry didn't show this Jewish marker for either of us.
                        What is says at 23andme is this: DNA shows clearly the connections among those who consider themselves to be Ashkenazi Jewish: two Ashkenazi Jewish people are very likely to be "genetic cousins", sharing long stretches of identical DNA. This sharing reflects the close knit nature of this population. 


                        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                        Where did your DNA testing get done? Whomever did it, you have to remember that low % numbers in 1 person do not always tell the full story.  Markers are still low in number which makes them have low resolution or precision (not sure what term is best).  Your daughter may be .2% Ashkenazi Jew because she has 0.2% of the inherited markers. She may have a higher amount of DNA, or a lower amount. That being said, finds like that are always very interesting.

                        For my DNA from the ancestry beta, I am missing my Southern European which comprises at least 1/8 of my ancestors (Italian). This could mean either I did not inherit the correct markers, I truly did not inherit much of my Italian ancestral DNA, or my ancestors from Italy were from neighboring areas.  It would be interesting to test my brother, mom, dad and kids Eventually :) But I think I want to use a better test in the future. 


                        On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 1:34 AM, Alexandra Vargovits <alexandravargovits@...> wrote:
                         
                        I think it's possible. According to the 1869 census, abt. 15% of the inhabitants were jewish in Nacina Ves.

                        Lexy

                        From: "breny@..." <breny@...>
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 2:44 PM
                        Subject: [S-R] Ashkenazi Jewish

                         
                        In DNA testing my daughter was found to have .2% of Ashkenazi.  Since this did not show up on my DNA, I have to assume it came from her father who is 50% Slovak from  current county: Kosice county - Eastern Slovakia \ former county: Zemplen / Zemplin county \ Nacina_Ves

                        Does anyone know if any Ashkenazi Jews would have settled here and assumed the slovak nationality?

                        My husband does not know his birth father so it's possible that this could be from that unknown ancestry.  Also he is no longer living and therefore we cannot test his DNA.





                        --
                        John Yowpa III, MD





                        --
                        John Yowpa III, MD
                      • bassfantastic
                        Another interesting thing about the 23andme DNA for my daughter is that that they concluded that she has one gene for Familial Mediterranean Fever. I do not
                        Message 11 of 14 , Sep 20 10:12 AM
                        • 0 Attachment

                          Another interesting thing about the 23andme DNA for my daughter is that that they concluded that she has one gene for Familial Mediterranean Fever.  I do not have that gene.  Also in researching this condition, I found this:

                          "Familial Mediterranean fever is an inherited disorder that usually occurs in people of Mediterranean origin — including Sephardic Jews, Arabs, Italians, Armenians and Turks. But it may affect any ethnic group."


                          I don't know the difference from Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, but I found this interesting. 



                          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                          Ashkenazi genetics are an interesting example of genetically isolated populations in human medicine. There are "classic" medical conditions that are really only found in this population due to their genetic isolation. There are plenty of other examples in humans but inherited diseases are well-studied, funded, and tested in medicine in the USA.. As mentioned, there are limits to any type of genetic testing currently available that is available on the common market. 
                          In terms of maternal and paternal lineage testing in this population, recent research has suggested that contrary to theories in the 1990s, maternal and paternal testing can reveal Ashkenazi ancestry, although the resolution of maternal testing is beyond that available on the common market. Prior to this high resolution analysis, it was thought that the male lineage came from Middle Eastern decent and the female lineage were incorporated from local populations after immigration to Europe..  Interestingly, Ashkenazi female lineage can now be traced back to 4 "founding females" or female progenitors. It is actually a very cool development.  Of course, we are talking thousands of years, so there are other genetic markers that are within isolated populations of Ashkenazis that may not be in others.
                          What it inevitably boils down to is that the current DNA testing on the market paints a broad brush that is also inaccurate. It is fun to see but really may not be helpful except in the condition of certain markers. In reality, this type of testing will be replaced by full genome sequencing over the next 20 years. A result of Ashkenazi ancestry is likely more valuable than a 50% central European result since Ashkenazi markers may be more indentifiable than other groups.
                          Population genetics is interesting :)


                          On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 7:26 AM, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:
                           
                          Just curious (and because I am skeptical at best with DNA testing for genealogy as it does not give us a CLUE as to how the subjects self-identified to culture), but would not a DNA test for any Jewish population be better served by checking maternal lines? 
                          Ben


                          From: "amiak27@..." <amiak27@...>
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:24 AM
                          Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: Re: [S-R] Ashkenazi Jewish

                           
                          bas,

                          Females lack the Y chromosome and therefore it would seem a DNA test would give only the maternal mitochondrial DNA.  So I would look again at your conclusions that it must come through the father.

                          23 and me uses a lot of waffle words wit "among those who consider themselves to be Ashkenazi Jewish" . 
                          I am not sure what that means. Certainly Slovakia (Hungary) and Poland had Jewish populations for centuries, so any degree of mixture is possible, but that holds true most everywhere. I believe Poland had such a large Jewish population because they had such a high degree of religious tolerance, so they took on many refugees driven out of other arts of Europe. Austria-Hungary did not enjoy such freedom.

                          I did a search on "allele proof of Jewish heritage" and one site came up with a (kind of) clear description of how the probability is reasoned out. It seems written by a professional in the voice of an amateur discovering the connection for the first time. This would seem to be the relevant part:

                          " In that study, the authors identified two major components of variation in ancestry, roughly corresponding to three clusters of individuals: those of predominantly northwest European descent, southeast European descent, and Ashkenazi Jewish descent. They assembled a list of ~300 genetic markers which were highly informative about ancestry in their sample, and made publicly available the allele frequencies of those markers in the three groups.
                          What Dienekes’s program does is use those allele frequencies (at the ~150 markers that are included in the 23andMe genotyping platform) to infer the proportional membership of an individual in each group. For example, if an individual has the genotype CC at a SNP, and the C allele has 20% frequency in northwestern Europe and 60% frequency in the Ashkenazi, that provides some evidence that the individual in question is more likely to be Ashkenazi. Summed across all loci, one can estimate the overall fraction of the genome of the individual from each group."

                          The title of that writeup is "Am I partly Jewish? Testing ancestry hypotheses with 23andMe data"


                          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                          Both my daughter and I had DNA done at 23andme and ancestry.   The only test showing the Ashkenazi was on her 23andme DNA test.  I cannot get my husband done because he is no longer living and has only half sisters that we are not close to at all. 


                          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                           The difference in the tests may well bring a  difference of results.  The ancestry.com test is not well thought of among DNA testers and has frequently been found in errror because it does not check a suffficient number of markers nor have a large data base for comparison.  23 & me is much better but not foolproof.  To know with better certainty you need to be tested with the same one your daughter used, and your husband as well.  There are additional special tests available, but they cost about $300 per person.
                           
                          Curt B.


                          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                          This DNA was done by 23andme.com.   I also had DNA done for me and my daughter at Ancestry.com.  Ancestry didn't show this Jewish marker for either of us.
                          What is says at 23andme is this: DNA shows clearly the connections among those who consider themselves to be Ashkenazi Jewish: two Ashkenazi Jewish people are very likely to be "genetic cousins", sharing long stretches of identical DNA. This sharing reflects the close knit nature of this population. 


                          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                          Where did your DNA testing get done? Whomever did it, you have to remember that low % numbers in 1 person do not always tell the full story.  Markers are still low in number which makes them have low resolution or precision (not sure what term is best).  Your daughter may be .2% Ashkenazi Jew because she has 0.2% of the inherited markers. She may have a higher amount of DNA, or a lower amount. That being said, finds like that are always very interesting.

                          For my DNA from the ancestry beta, I am missing my Southern European which comprises at least 1/8 of my ancestors (Italian). This could mean either I did not inherit the correct markers, I truly did not inherit much of my Italian ancestral DNA, or my ancestors from Italy were from neighboring areas.  It would be interesting to test my brother, mom, dad and kids Eventually :) But I think I want to use a better test in the future. 


                          On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 1:34 AM, Alexandra Vargovits <alexandravargovits@...> wrote:
                           
                          I think it's possible. According to the 1869 census, abt. 15% of the inhabitants were jewish in Nacina Ves.

                          Lexy

                          From: "breny@..." <breny@...>
                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 2:44 PM
                          Subject: [S-R] Ashkenazi Jewish

                           
                          In DNA testing my daughter was found to have .2% of Ashkenazi.  Since this did not show up on my DNA, I have to assume it came from her father who is 50% Slovak from  current county: Kosice county - Eastern Slovakia \ former county: Zemplen / Zemplin county \ Nacina_Ves

                          Does anyone know if any Ashkenazi Jews would have settled here and assumed the slovak nationality?

                          My husband does not know his birth father so it's possible that this could be from that unknown ancestry.  Also he is no longer living and therefore we cannot test his DNA.





                          --
                          John Yowpa III, MD





                          --
                          John Yowpa III, MD
                        • John Yowpa III
                          It is also found in Ashkenazis as well. With the genetic blending that occurred around the Mediterranean, it could be from any group/ancestry. Markers are a
                          Message 12 of 14 , Sep 20 10:55 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            It is also found in Ashkenazis as well. With the genetic blending that occurred around the Mediterranean, it could be from any group/ancestry.  Markers are a bit different from a specific gene. You could conceivably track a specific genetic anomaly back thru genotyping/FISH or other testing of your ancestors until the new mutation was found. If you do not have that allele, then your daughter's father has it, unless it was a new mutation (which is not impossible).


                            On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 1:12 PM, <breny@...> wrote:
                             

                            Another interesting thing about the 23andme DNA for my daughter is that that they concluded that she has one gene for Familial Mediterranean Fever.  I do not have that gene.  Also in researching this condition, I found this:

                            "Familial Mediterranean fever is an inherited disorder that usually occurs in people of Mediterranean origin — including Sephardic Jews, Arabs, Italians, Armenians and Turks. But it may affect any ethnic group."


                            I don't know the difference from Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, but I found this interesting. 

                            Ashkenazi genetics are an interesting example of genetically isolated populations in human medicine. There are "classic" medical conditions that are really only found in this population due to their genetic isolation. There are plenty of other examples in humans but inherited diseases are well-studied, funded, and tested in medicine in the USA.. As mentioned, there are limits to any type of genetic testing currently available that is available on the common market. 
                            In terms of maternal and paternal lineage testing in this population, recent research has suggested that contrary to theories in the 1990s, maternal and paternal testing can reveal Ashkenazi ancestry, although the resolution of maternal testing is beyond that available on the common market. Prior to this high resolution analysis, it was thought that the male lineage came from Middle Eastern decent and the female lineage were incorporated from local populations after immigration to Europe..  Interestingly, Ashkenazi female lineage can now be traced back to 4 "founding females" or female progenitors. It is actually a very cool development.  Of course, we are talking thousands of years, so there are other genetic markers that are within isolated populations of Ashkenazis that may not be in others.
                            What it inevitably boils down to is that the current DNA testing on the market paints a broad brush that is also inaccurate. It is fun to see but really may not be helpful except in the condition of certain markers. In reality, this type of testing will be replaced by full genome sequencing over the next 20 years. A result of Ashkenazi ancestry is likely more valuable than a 50% central European result since Ashkenazi markers may be more indentifiable than other groups.
                            Population genetics is interesting :)


                            On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 7:26 AM, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:
                             
                            Just curious (and because I am skeptical at best with DNA testing for genealogy as it does not give us a CLUE as to how the subjects self-identified to culture), but would not a DNA test for any Jewish population be better served by checking maternal lines? 
                            Ben


                            From: "amiak27@..." <amiak27@...>

                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:24 AM
                            Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: Re: [S-R] Ashkenazi Jewish

                             
                            bas,

                            Females lack the Y chromosome and therefore it would seem a DNA test would give only the maternal mitochondrial DNA.  So I would look again at your conclusions that it must come through the father.

                            23 and me uses a lot of waffle words wit "among those who consider themselves to be Ashkenazi Jewish" . 
                            I am not sure what that means. Certainly Slovakia (Hungary) and Poland had Jewish populations for centuries, so any degree of mixture is possible, but that holds true most everywhere. I believe Poland had such a large Jewish population because they had such a high degree of religious tolerance, so they took on many refugees driven out of other arts of Europe. Austria-Hungary did not enjoy such freedom.

                            I did a search on "allele proof of Jewish heritage" and one site came up with a (kind of) clear description of how the probability is reasoned out. It seems written by a professional in the voice of an amateur discovering the connection for the first time. This would seem to be the relevant part:

                            " In that study, the authors identified two major components of variation in ancestry, roughly corresponding to three clusters of individuals: those of predominantly northwest European descent, southeast European descent, and Ashkenazi Jewish descent. They assembled a list of ~300 genetic markers which were highly informative about ancestry in their sample, and made publicly available the allele frequencies of those markers in the three groups.
                            What Dienekes’s program does is use those allele frequencies (at the ~150 markers that are included in the 23andMe genotyping platform) to infer the proportional membership of an individual in each group. For example, if an individual has the genotype CC at a SNP, and the C allele has 20% frequency in northwestern Europe and 60% frequency in the Ashkenazi, that provides some evidence that the individual in question is more likely to be Ashkenazi. Summed across all loci, one can estimate the overall fraction of the genome of the individual from each group."

                            The title of that writeup is "Am I partly Jewish? Testing ancestry hypotheses with 23andMe data"


                            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                            Both my daughter and I had DNA done at 23andme and ancestry.   The only test showing the Ashkenazi was on her 23andme DNA test.  I cannot get my husband done because he is no longer living and has only half sisters that we are not close to at all. 


                            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                             The difference in the tests may well bring a  difference of results.  The ancestry.com test is not well thought of among DNA testers and has frequently been found in errror because it does not check a suffficient number of markers nor have a large data base for comparison.  23 & me is much better but not foolproof.  To know with better certainty you need to be tested with the same one your daughter used, and your husband as well.  There are additional special tests available, but they cost about $300 per person.
                             
                            Curt B.


                            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                            This DNA was done by 23andme.com.   I also had DNA done for me and my daughter at Ancestry.com.  Ancestry didn't show this Jewish marker for either of us.
                            What is says at 23andme is this: DNA shows clearly the connections among those who consider themselves to be Ashkenazi Jewish: two Ashkenazi Jewish people are very likely to be "genetic cousins", sharing long stretches of identical DNA. This sharing reflects the close knit nature of this population. 


                            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, <slovak-roots@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                            Where did your DNA testing get done? Whomever did it, you have to remember that low % numbers in 1 person do not always tell the full story.  Markers are still low in number which makes them have low resolution or precision (not sure what term is best).  Your daughter may be .2% Ashkenazi Jew because she has 0.2% of the inherited markers. She may have a higher amount of DNA, or a lower amount. That being said, finds like that are always very interesting.

                            For my DNA from the ancestry beta, I am missing my Southern European which comprises at least 1/8 of my ancestors (Italian). This could mean either I did not inherit the correct markers, I truly did not inherit much of my Italian ancestral DNA, or my ancestors from Italy were from neighboring areas.  It would be interesting to test my brother, mom, dad and kids Eventually :) But I think I want to use a better test in the future. 


                            On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 1:34 AM, Alexandra Vargovits <alexandravargovits@...> wrote:
                             
                            I think it's possible. According to the 1869 census, abt. 15% of the inhabitants were jewish in Nacina Ves.

                            Lexy

                            From: "breny@..." <breny@...>
                            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 2:44 PM
                            Subject: [S-R] Ashkenazi Jewish

                             
                            In DNA testing my daughter was found to have .2% of Ashkenazi.  Since this did not show up on my DNA, I have to assume it came from her father who is 50% Slovak from  current county: Kosice county - Eastern Slovakia \ former county: Zemplen / Zemplin county \ Nacina_Ves

                            Does anyone know if any Ashkenazi Jews would have settled here and assumed the slovak nationality?

                            My husband does not know his birth father so it's possible that this could be from that unknown ancestry.  Also he is no longer living and therefore we cannot test his DNA.





                            --
                            John Yowpa III, MD





                            --
                            John Yowpa III, MD




                            --
                            John Yowpa III, MD
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