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Re: [S-R] translation help

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  • Elaine Powell
    Deborah, one final thought on what you just wrote: If your female relative was a maid in a wealthy household as your newfound cousins indicated, she probably
    Message 1 of 18 , Jun 7, 2013
      Deborah, one final thought on what you just wrote:

      If your female relative was a maid in a wealthy household as your newfound cousins indicated, she probably would have lived in their house and would not have worked in the fields.

      One thing you might consider doing is checking to see if there is a "Family History Center" (located in Mormon churches) where you could rent microfilms of the birth/death/marriage records of your ancestral village. While these records have been put online now, I found it very helpful to look at a village as time goes by.

      Also, there are microfilms of censuses taken of each town in various years. I think one was done in 1869, and it lists the occupation of each resident. That might tell you more about the family with which you ancestor lived.

      Hang in there! Genealogy for me is as much about the "journey" (learning about the times and conditions in which our ancestors lived) as it is the destination, finding our family).

      Elaine

      On Jun 6, 2013, at 7:34 PM, "Deborah" <dljillustrations@...> wrote:

      > Thank you Elaine. That does help. In Anna's situation, I did not know how that worked. I was told by newfound cousins in Slovakia that the rumor was that the oldest sister worked for a wealthy Jewish family in the area, most likely as a maid, and it seems that by the time Anna came of age, she did not marry, I don't think, but not sure. I just did not realize that she too could be out in the fields. I do not know what Georgius Csutek's occupation was. I know Anna's younger brother was a locksmith and the other's were laborers. Perhaps it is all of that line that were "serfs" of that landowner, though I have no idea how to find out who that might be. The whole situation just seemed odd. that she would leave Jacob and have appr 7 more children in the USA. And while she brought over at least 5 more siblings and cousins, she didn't bring Jacob over until he was grown.
      >
      > I am sorry for my previous emotional outburst. I have been hitting the brick wall now for over a year with her and I just get frustrated, None of the puzzle pieces seem to quite fit, they just "almost" do. Thank you again for all your help and sharing.
      >
      > Deborah
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Elaine Powell <epowell@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Deborah,
      > >
      > > I have an ancestor (surname Kolarcik) who also had that designation. In his case, he was living in what seemed to be a house owned by a noble family in the late 1700s. I assumed it meant servant. In subsequent generations, the men in my direct paternal line were blacksmiths. Possibly this man also had that occupation, but solely for that noble house.
      > >
      > > In my understanding of "serf," that is a person who works land owned by someone else of higher status and would typically have a house to live in and a share of the harvest.
      > >
      > > Elaine
      > >
      > > On Jun 6, 2013, at 4:02 PM, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > > servus : slave, serf.
      > > > I think in your case it refers to a serf.
      > > >
      > > > From: Deborah
      > > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 1:44 PM
      > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Subject: [S-R] translation help
      > > >
      > > > I am trying to find out the correct translation of the parent of Jacobus
      > > > Csutek, # 77, and what it is saying about her parents. When I Google
      > > > Translated "servilus", it says slave. Was this some kind of indentured
      > > > servitude?
      > > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443&\
      > > > wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403
      > > > <https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22632-25812-79?cc=1554443\
      > > > &wc=M99C-CXX:n580263403>
      > > > Anna was 27 at the time, and shortly after she left to the States,
      > > > leaving Jacob behind until he was 19. She had already married in
      > > > Pennsylvania and had a large family before he ever came over. I am
      > > > trying to figure out the story behind this and I am going crazy already.
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • MGMojher
      If your G-Grandfather came over in the 1880’s he would have come though Castle Gardens, the precursor to Ellis Island. The Castle Garden records were
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 7, 2013
        If your G-Grandfather came over in the 1880’s he would have come though Castle Gardens, the precursor to Ellis Island. The Castle Garden records were transferred to Ellis Island. Then the fire happened about 1895. A lot of the Castle Garden records were destroyed. If you go to Ancestry.com you can search what remains of those records, but you have to be a member, I am. Give me his name and I will see what I can find.

        There were “commuters” from Hungary to America. They would return home and after a year or two come back. My cousins in Slovakia said they knew that their G-grandfather did three stints in America. I recall reading that the cost of a ticket was about $17 in steerage. To us sounds incredibly inexpensive, but in the 1800’s a peasant had to be very frugal to save that amount up. “Hourly rates high/low, normalized into US Dollars, 1873 to 1898: Eastern Europe: 1-3 cents.” $17 at those wages took 1700 to 567 hours. A 10 hour day meant 170 to 57 days of work. The number of days a peasant worked for the “lord of the manor” and got paid ranged between 14 and 40 days a year. That is why so many Slovaks became migrant works. They could not survive on the cash they earned locally.
        One of the questions asked at Ellis Island was, Do you have a job in America? If you answered yes you could be refused entry. By law businesses were not allowed to recruit employees. The agents for the shipping companies literally handed the immigrants from agent to agent until they reached the ship. It appeared there was some cooperate collusion going on to keep the ticket prices low and make sure the immigrants got to the ship.
        From: bassfantastic
        Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 10:01 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] translation help


        I find this information interesting about immigration. On the Petition for Citizenship, form my husband's G Grandfather, it says he came here in 1880. However, I never found a passenger list. However, his wife and living children came in 1903. And, they had 6 kids born in Natafalva between 1880 & 1903 so I would have to assume that the father must have either been mistaken on his Petition or he went back and forth. Was travel expensive?

        --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
        >
        > Deborah,
        > On March 15, 1848: The Hungarian Diet passed The March Laws, by which serfdom was abolished. Being a peasant was not much better than being a serf economically in 1892.
        > The Latin word servus is the root to the English word serve. So, while neither slave nor serf, the peasants had duties or goods that they paid to rent homes, land or both. The Slovak peasants as early as the 1400’s became the migrant works of Europe. They couldn’t survive without going elsewhere to earn money. By the 1800’s coming to America became cheap enough for them to come and work in America. Not being serfs they could stay on. My own great-grandfather came in the 1880’s and worked for three years. The goal was to earn the “Golden $1000” so they could return home, buy land and live comfortably the rest of their lives. That is why Slovaks had the second highest return rate from America after the Hungarians, over 50%.

        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • bassfantastic
        I have looked at Castle Garden and Ellis Island with no luck. Feel free to see if you can find it. Here is a link to the Declaration
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 7, 2013
          I have looked at Castle Garden and Ellis Island with no luck. Feel free to see if you can find it. Here is a link to the Declaration
          http://www.breny.com/pics/declarationofintention_michaelmiklos.jpg
          I'm not sure why he spelled his name like that. The name was Nicholas Misko in Austria or I've seen Miklos Misko. But I'm 99% sure that this is him due to the "Forbes Road" as that is where he lived and he did use the first name Mike many times after arriving here. He was a miner.

          Also, here is his son's Declaration, my husband's Grandfather:
          http://www.breny.com/pics/declarationofintention_petemiklish.jpg
          As you can see he has 1902 but I did find his passenger list and it was actually 1903 as shown here in the first record with his mother Anna and sister Mary and brother Nicholas.
          http://www.breny.com/pics/passengerlist_anna_mary_peter_nicholas_1903.jpg

          Anna & Nicholas had children in 1885, 1886, 1893, 1897 & 1899 in Austria so if the father came here first in 1880, he must have been back and forth to father these children.


          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
          >
          > If your G-Grandfather came over in the 1880’s he would have come though Castle Gardens, the precursor to Ellis Island. The Castle Garden records were transferred to Ellis Island. Then the fire happened about 1895. A lot of the Castle Garden records were destroyed. If you go to Ancestry.com you can search what remains of those records, but you have to be a member, I am. Give me his name and I will see what I can find.
          >
          > There were “commuters” from Hungary to America. They would return home and after a year or two come back. My cousins in Slovakia said they knew that their G-grandfather did three stints in America. I recall reading that the cost of a ticket was about $17 in steerage. To us sounds incredibly inexpensive, but in the 1800’s a peasant had to be very frugal to save that amount up. “Hourly rates high/low, normalized into US Dollars, 1873 to 1898: Eastern Europe: 1-3 cents.” $17 at those wages took 1700 to 567 hours. A 10 hour day meant 170 to 57 days of work. The number of days a peasant worked for the “lord of the manor” and got paid ranged between 14 and 40 days a year. That is why so many Slovaks became migrant works. They could not survive on the cash they earned locally.
          > One of the questions asked at Ellis Island was, Do you have a job in America? If you answered yes you could be refused entry. By law businesses were not allowed to recruit employees. The agents for the shipping companies literally handed the immigrants from agent to agent until they reached the ship. It appeared there was some cooperate collusion going on to keep the ticket prices low and make sure the immigrants got to the ship.
        • MGMojher
          Nacina Ves MI/KI zemplín. 1773 Natafalva, Naczina Wes, 1786 Natafalwa, Nacsina Wes, 1808 Nátafalva, Náthafalva, Nacyná Wes, Natiná Wes, 1863–1913
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 7, 2013
            Nacina Ves MI/KI zemplín.
            1773 Natafalva, Naczina Wes, 1786 Natafalwa, Nacsina Wes, 1808 Nátafalva, Náthafalva, Nacyná Wes, Natiná Wes, 1863–1913 Nátafalva, 1920– Nacina Ves

            Natafalva is now Nacina Ves in the orkes/district of Michalovce in far Eastern Slovakia.

            In the late 1800’s Magyarization policy where in all records only Hungarian can be used caused Slovak surnames and given names to be given a Hungarian spelling. So, do not be surprised you may find those names to be spelled different prior to Magyarization.

            Peter “Americanized” Miklos to Miklish.

            Mikulas is Slovak for Nicholas. The pronunciation of Mikulas is close enough to Mike to not be surprised that he used that in the USA. Mikulas Miklos would be almost like saying his name was Nicholas Nicholas. Because Miklos is Hungarian for Nicholas. If you saw the surname as Misko, I would suspect that is probably the original before Magyarization.

            It appears that “Mike” was a “commuter” to the USA. The Ship’s Manifest had the children’s ages as 15, 9.5 and 3.5. That gaps between Maria and Peter and Miklos seems to show that “Mike” seems to have made three trips to America. On the third he stayed permanently. Normally, you would see children every year or two, so to have such gaps between children makes one suspect two trips back home from America.

            From: bassfantastic
            Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 4:02 PM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [S-R] Re: translation help


            I have looked at Castle Garden and Ellis Island with no luck. Feel free to see if you can find it. Here is a link to the Declaration
            http://www.breny.com/pics/declarationofintention_michaelmiklos.jpg
            I'm not sure why he spelled his name like that. The name was Nicholas Misko in Austria or I've seen Miklos Misko. But I'm 99% sure that this is him due to the "Forbes Road" as that is where he lived and he did use the first name Mike many times after arriving here. He was a miner.

            Also, here is his son's Declaration, my husband's Grandfather:
            http://www.breny.com/pics/declarationofintention_petemiklish.jpg
            As you can see he has 1902 but I did find his passenger list and it was actually 1903 as shown here in the first record with his mother Anna and sister Mary and brother Nicholas.
            http://www.breny.com/pics/passengerlist_anna_mary_peter_nicholas_1903.jpg

            Anna & Nicholas had children in 1885, 1886, 1893, 1897 & 1899 in Austria so if the father came here first in 1880, he must have been back and forth to father these children.

            --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
            >
            > If your G-Grandfather came over in the 1880’s he would have come though Castle Gardens, the precursor to Ellis Island. The Castle Garden records were transferred to Ellis Island. Then the fire happened about 1895. A lot of the Castle Garden records were destroyed. If you go to Ancestry.com you can search what remains of those records, but you have to be a member, I am. Give me his name and I will see what I can find.
            >
            > There were “commuters” from Hungary to America. They would return home and after a year or two come back. My cousins in Slovakia said they knew that their G-grandfather did three stints in America. I recall reading that the cost of a ticket was about $17 in steerage. To us sounds incredibly inexpensive, but in the 1800’s a peasant had to be very frugal to save that amount up. “Hourly rates high/low, normalized into US Dollars, 1873 to 1898: Eastern Europe: 1-3 cents.” $17 at those wages took 1700 to 567 hours. A 10 hour day meant 170 to 57 days of work. The number of days a peasant worked for the “lord of the manor” and got paid ranged between 14 and 40 days a year. That is why so many Slovaks became migrant works. They could not survive on the cash they earned locally.
            > One of the questions asked at Ellis Island was, Do you have a job in America? If you answered yes you could be refused entry. By law businesses were not allowed to recruit employees. The agents for the shipping companies literally handed the immigrants from agent to agent until they reached the ship. It appeared there was some cooperate collusion going on to keep the ticket prices low and make sure the immigrants got to the ship.





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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