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Re: [S-R] New Member - Scorby/Scerba/Scorba and Bartko

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  • Karin Weiss
    Karen - I have used that particular web site quite a lot, as my husband s family is almost all in the area of Coos and Curry County. Also we have visited the
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 9, 2013
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      Karen - I have used that particular web site quite a lot, as my
      husband's family is almost all in the area of Coos and Curry County.
      Also we have visited the Bandon Museum, a really fine small museum - one
      of the best I have been to and I am a great fan of museums. They
      provided me with many obits - very few Scorby obits, though. None for
      John. Or Jessie, his second wife.

      Or third - there is an outside chance he married a woman named Mabel
      Holmes at a very young age in Streator. Then they went to Colorado,
      divorced , went back to Streator separately, and then John went to
      Washington state and then Oregon. I still need to order that divorce
      record. I do have the marriage record and it looks to be yet another
      John Scorby.

      It does strike me, though, that I have not visited either the Bandon or
      the Coquille Libraries, and I ought to do that. We are in Bandon a few
      times a year, as my husband's parents live there. I will make a point
      to do that soon. Thank you for pointing me in that direction. I have
      found a great deal of interest in searching microfilms of the old
      newspapers from the Wisconsin town where my father's family came from -
      it has been fascinating. You learn things you can't learn any other way.

      Karin Schuette Weiss


      On 4/6/2013 11:37 AM, Karen C wrote:
      >
      > As you check your research, just wondering if you have tried using a
      > public library to look through Microfilms for a copy of an obituary?
      > Found this gen web URL that lists libraries that have copies of
      > newspapers in the area.
      >
      > http://www.orgenweb.org/coos/library.htm
      >
      > I didn't find anything on any of the newspaper sites that I belong to.
      >
      > Karen
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • rd1995
      Is it possible that there was a Scorby/Scerba/Scorba family back then that was not Roman Catholic? Maybe they were Lutheran or Evangelical? Maybe the baptism
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 10, 2013
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        Is it possible that there was a Scorby/Scerba/Scorba family back then that was not Roman Catholic? Maybe they were Lutheran or Evangelical? Maybe the baptism records are in another church, even in a nearby town?

        The way that Jack/John's family hasn't turned up in the Censuses must be frustrating. Could they have lived in another ward of Streator or perhaps even Spring Valley or Braidwood?

        I stumbled across a book from a university press that, although it is ostensibly trying to discuss how Scottish miners in Streator compared with their cousins in Scotland in the 19th century, the book also has a lot about the mine employers and mix of different ethnic groups as workers in the Streator Illinois area. It's called "Colliers Across the Sea" by John H. M. Laslett.

        You can see a lot in previews through Amazon: how many Slovaks ended up in the area called "Coalville", how a young Czech Anton Cermak (later Chicago mayor, killed in an assassination attempt on FDR) once lived in Braidwood, how the houses were tinderboxes and burned down often, all the strikes, etc.

        I think it would be worth asking your local public library to borrow a copy through Interlibrary Loan, if only for background. The book's references might also give you some ideas. For example, I saw a reference to WPA interviews in the book's bibliography, but they don't seem to be digitized in the Library of Congress' small WPA section online.


        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Karin Weiss <karinsw@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > I have baptismal records I obtained from the Peoria Catholic Diocese and
        > from St. Michael the Archangel Parish (was St. Stephen Roman Catholic
        > Church) for 12 children born to John and Mary.
        > I am very much open to suggestions.
        >

        >
        >
      • Karen C
        Hello Karin,  Well looks like you are covering all of your bases.  I did notice on a few records (1910 & 1920 census) that John Scorby indicated he was born
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 10, 2013
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          Hello Karin,  Well looks like you are covering all of your bases.  I did notice on a few records (1910 & 1920 census) that John
          Scorby indicated he was born in 1886 in Austria.  He also indicated on his WWI registration that he was a citizen by his father's 
          naturalization.  In the 1910 census it states that he came to the U.S. in 1887 or 1889.  Have you seen these records and have you tried 
          to find an arrival record or a naturalization record.

          Karen

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • MGMojher
          Karin and Karen, Before Ellis Island was Castle Gardens that John Scorby would have gone through. The problem is during the early years of Ellis Island there
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 10, 2013
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            Karin and Karen,
            Before Ellis Island was Castle Gardens that John Scorby would have gone through. The problem is during the early years of Ellis Island there was a fire that destroyed a big portion of the Castle Garden records. My own relatives I have never been able to find their entry with their arrival in 1888-89. Ancestry.com has some Castle Garden records to search.

            From: Karen C
            Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 8:49 PM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [S-R] New Member - Scorby/Scerba/Scorba and Bartko


            Hello Karin, Well looks like you are covering all of your bases. I did notice on a few records (1910 & 1920 census) that John
            Scorby indicated he was born in 1886 in Austria. He also indicated on his WWI registration that he was a citizen by his father's
            naturalization. In the 1910 census it states that he came to the U.S. in 1887 or 1889. Have you seen these records and have you tried
            to find an arrival record or a naturalization record.

            Karen

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Karin Weiss
            RD - Good point about the religion, since I still have no proof of the family. I have a busy schedule the next couple days and weekend, but am putting a note
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 11, 2013
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              RD -

              Good point about the religion, since I still have no proof of the
              family. I have a busy schedule the next couple days and weekend, but am
              putting a note in my calendar for Monday to make a call or calls to
              Lutheran/Evangelical churches in the Streator area to see what I might
              be able to find.

              And I have ordered the book through ILL - it does look like it should be
              very interesting and quite possibly helpful - especially the references
              - those are often a gold mine. Streator is a town with a fascinating
              history, but I really did not know about the Scottish part of it. That
              is particularly interesting, given that when John got to Washington
              state he married a woman of Scottish descent whose father was also a miner.

              Karin Schuette Weiss



              On 4/10/2013 8:11 PM, rd1995 wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > Is it possible that there was a Scorby/Scerba/Scorba family back then
              > that was not Roman Catholic? Maybe they were Lutheran or Evangelical?
              > Maybe the baptism records are in another church, even in a nearby town?
              >
              > The way that Jack/John's family hasn't turned up in the Censuses must
              > be frustrating. Could they have lived in another ward of Streator or
              > perhaps even Spring Valley or Braidwood?
              >
              > I stumbled across a book from a university press that, although it is
              > ostensibly trying to discuss how Scottish miners in Streator compared
              > with their cousins in Scotland in the 19th century, the book also has
              > a lot about the mine employers and mix of different ethnic groups as
              > workers in the Streator Illinois area. It's called "Colliers Across
              > the Sea" by John H. M. Laslett.
              >
              > You can see a lot in previews through Amazon: how many Slovaks ended
              > up in the area called "Coalville", how a young Czech Anton Cermak
              > (later Chicago mayor, killed in an assassination attempt on FDR) once
              > lived in Braidwood, how the houses were tinderboxes and burned down
              > often, all the strikes, etc.
              >
              > I think it would be worth asking your local public library to borrow a
              > copy through Interlibrary Loan, if only for background. The book's
              > references might also give you some ideas. For example, I saw a
              > reference to WPA interviews in the book's bibliography, but they don't
              > seem to be digitized in the Library of Congress' small WPA section online.
              >
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Karin Weiss
              Karen - Indeed I have seen them and I have looked for immigration records for any Scorbys/Scerbas that make sense. One other problem with John is that he
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 11, 2013
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                Karen -

                Indeed I have seen them and I have looked for immigration records for
                any Scorbys/Scerbas that make sense.

                One other problem with John is that he changes his mind about some of
                this later. Eventually he becomes Jack Scorby - I suspect this happens
                whenever he marries Jessie Eades Ricketts. But in the 1930 census he is
                Jack Scorby, living in Coquille Oregon married to Jessie, still a coal
                miner, and now he says he was born in Illinois. He also registered for
                the draft for WWII - as John Scorby - and there he says he was born in
                Streator (misspelled Strator) Illinois.

                According to the 1930 census his parents were born in Austria Hungary
                and spoke Slovak. However, his father's birthplace is crossed out and
                above it are the initials E.N.S. Doing a little research, I think this
                means European Non State. Which may mean that the place Jack said his
                father came from was, at that time, in flux, and it was uncertain where
                it belonged. Maybe someone has more information about this notation?

                In 1940 Jack is still living in Coquille Oregon with Jessie, still a
                coal miner, still born in Illinois.

                Karin Schuette Weiss


                On 4/10/2013 8:49 PM, Karen C wrote:
                >
                > Hello Karin, Well looks like you are covering all of your bases. I
                > did notice on a few records (1910 & 1920 census) that John
                > Scorby indicated he was born in 1886 in Austria. He also indicated on
                > his WWI registration that he was a citizen by his father's
                > naturalization. In the 1910 census it states that he came to the U.S.
                > in 1887 or 1889. Have you seen these records and have you tried
                > to find an arrival record or a naturalization record.
                >
                > Karen
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Karin Weiss
                Do you happen to know what the Castle Garden records might be called in the Ancestry Card Catalog? Karin ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
                Message 7 of 14 , Apr 11, 2013
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                  Do you happen to know what the Castle Garden records might be called in
                  the Ancestry Card Catalog?

                  Karin


                  On 4/10/2013 9:12 PM, MGMojher wrote:
                  >
                  > Karin and Karen,
                  > Before Ellis Island was Castle Gardens that John Scorby would have
                  > gone through. The problem is during the early years of Ellis Island
                  > there was a fire that destroyed a big portion of the Castle Garden
                  > records. My own relatives I have never been able to find their entry
                  > with their arrival in 1888-89. Ancestry.com has some Castle Garden
                  > records to search.
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Karen C
                  Hello Karin,   This is going to be a long shot but here goes...  I found an ancestry indexed record in 1900 of a John Sabol (b. Jan. 1886 in Austria), all
                  Message 8 of 14 , Apr 14, 2013
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                    Hello Karin,  

                    This is going to be a long shot but here goes...  I found an ancestry indexed record in 1900 of a John Sabol (b. Jan. 1886 in Austria), all other children in the family were born staring in 1887 in Illinois.  His parents listed as Andrew & Mary.  The census record is very faded but shows them living at 1507 Union.  On the previous pages at 1401 Union lived John & Mary Scorbie.  I never find another Andrew and Mary, but I do find Andrew and Susan (Susanna) living again at 1507 Union.  
                    http://tinyurl.com/cceg5kx

                    I also found Andrew (widow) with children Andrew Jr. (b. 1897), Emma (b. 1904) & Mary (b. 1901).  This puts he number of children from 7 in 1900 census to at least 9 by 1904.  On the previous page is an Andrew & Suzie Sabol living at 1504 Union, arrival 1889.    
                    http://tinyurl.com/d26sdc5

                    The above record fits month/year of birth (Jan 1886), place of birth (Austria on some records) and immigration at age 1 on some records.  They live in Streator and down the street from a Scorbie.  Is it possible that he could be a Sabol/Sabel but changed his name for some reason.  Or his family changed their name.   

                    On ancestry.com
                    Andrew Scherba (death record)
                    http://tinyurl.com/brt7ry9%c2%a0%c2%a0

                    On www.findagrave.com
                    Russion Orthodox Cemetery there lists:

                    Andrew Scherba, 1852-1925

                    Susanna Scherba, 1855-1939

                    Riverview Cemetery lists:
                    Andrew Sabol, unknown-1924  (see death index on ancestry)
                    Mary Sabol, unknown-1916

                    Karen

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Karin Weiss
                    Karen C - Long shot maybe - but wow. fascinating stuff, which I am now starting to take a real good look at. So much of it does fit. Looking at the children
                    Message 9 of 14 , Apr 14, 2013
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                      Karen C -

                      Long shot maybe - but wow. fascinating stuff, which I am now starting to
                      take a real good look at. So much of it does fit. Looking at the
                      children on that 1900 census along with the old photograph I have, they
                      make perfect sense as the seven oldest children in the photo. I've not
                      quite been able to do that with the John and Mary Bartko Scorby family -
                      even with all their children it has been problematic. I need to try and
                      trace this Sabol family a bit further and see what comes of it. Thank
                      you very much.

                      Karin Schuette Weiss

                      On 4/14/2013 9:54 AM, Karen C wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello Karin,
                      >
                      > This is going to be a long shot but here goes... I found an ancestry
                      > indexed record in 1900 of a John Sabol (b. Jan. 1886 in Austria), all
                      > other children in the family were born staring in 1887 in Illinois.
                      > His parents listed as Andrew & Mary. The census record is very faded
                      > but shows them living at 1507 Union. On the previous pages at 1401
                      > Union lived John & Mary Scorbie. I never find another Andrew and
                      > Mary, but I do find Andrew and Susan (Susanna) living again at 1507
                      > Union.
                      > http://tinyurl.com/cceg5kx
                      >
                      > I also found Andrew (widow) with children Andrew Jr. (b. 1897), Emma
                      > (b. 1904) & Mary (b. 1901). This puts he number of children from 7 in
                      > 1900 census to at least 9 by 1904. On the previous page is an Andrew
                      > & Suzie Sabol living at 1504 Union, arrival 1889.
                      > http://tinyurl.com/d26sdc5
                      >
                      > The above record fits month/year of birth (Jan 1886), place of birth
                      > (Austria on some records) and immigration at age 1 on some records.
                      > They live in Streator and down the street from a Scorbie. Is it
                      > possible that he could be a Sabol/Sabel but changed his name for some
                      > reason. Or his family changed their name.
                      >
                      > On ancestry.com
                      > Andrew Scherba (death record)
                      > http://tinyurl.com/brt7ry9
                      >
                      > On www.findagrave.com
                      > Russion Orthodox Cemetery there lists:
                      >
                      > Andrew Scherba, 1852-1925
                      >
                      > Susanna Scherba, 1855-1939
                      >
                      > Riverview Cemetery lists:
                      > Andrew Sabol, unknown-1924 (see death index on ancestry)
                      > Mary Sabol, unknown-1916
                      >
                      > Karen
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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