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Re: [S-R] New Member - Scorby/Scerba/Scorba and Bartko

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  • Karin Weiss
    ... I did in fact find an obit for Mary Bartko Scorby some time ago. She died in 1921 in Streator, Illinois, and there was an obituary in the Streator Daily
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 9, 2013
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      On 4/5/2013 7:13 AM, Margo Smith wrote:
      >
      > Have you considered looking for the obits of John and Mary to see who
      > are listed as their children?
      >

      I did in fact find an obit for Mary Bartko Scorby some time ago. She
      died in 1921 in Streator, Illinois, and there was an obituary in the
      Streator Daily Free Press. According to that, she was survived by her
      husband, John, and by six children - five at home and one daughter in
      Orient, Illinois. The five children at home were George, Steve, John,
      Frank and Rose. That is not our John. That would be a son born in 1902.

      I have baptismal records I obtained from the Peoria Catholic Diocese and
      from St. Michael the Archangel Parish (was St. Stephen Roman Catholic
      Church) for 12 children born to John and Mary. They had three sons
      named John (1886, 1888 and 1902) and two daughters named Mary (1885 and
      1896). The entire family in order: Anna, Maria, John, John, George and
      Theresa (twins), Stephen, Maria, Emma, John, Rose and Frank. I know
      from census records that some of these children died, but don't yet know
      which ones. It is a slow process obtaining records from the Diocese, as
      I can only ask for four at a time. I will be asking for four deaths of
      children next and then I will begin to know more.

      I do know that our John claims he was born in 1886. His draft
      registrations and later census records and death certificate all bear
      that date. John and Mary had a son named John that year. I know of a
      family in my ancestry (a German family) who named six sons Frederick.
      Only one died. They only actually called one Fred. And thus far I
      cannot fit our John into any other Scorby family. So until I see that
      he dies, I guess I've been hanging on to the hope that they chose to
      forget him after he left home. He appears to be the only one who
      strayed very far.

      The Andrew Scorby family had two children - Andrew and Susie.

      Then there was the Joseph and Susan Bartko Scorby family. It appears
      very possible that Joseph Scorby was a brother to John Scorby and Susan
      Bartko may have been a sister to Mary Bartko. I believe they had seven
      children - Anna, Mary, Susanna, Clara, John, Stephen and Agnes. Not
      enough for the photograph.

      I am very much open to suggestions.

      Karin Schuette Weiss.

      >
      > >________________________________
      > > From: karinsw37 <karinsw@... <mailto:karinsw%40frontier.com>>
      > >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > >Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2013 6:49 PM
      > >Subject: [S-R] New Member - Scorby/Scerba/Scorba and Bartko
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >Hello. I am new to this group. I am researching my husband's great
      > grandfather's family.
      > >
      > >His great grandfather, John/Jack Scorby was born in Streator,
      > Illinois in 1886 and came to Coquille Oregon in about 1910 after a
      > short stay in Skookumchuck, Washington. In Washington in 1909 he
      > married Rose McGourty. He and Rose had four children - Clara, Edward,
      > Robert, and Ella. They divorced in 1929/1930 and Jack married Jessie
      > Eades Ricketts. He died in 1950.
      > >
      > >No one in the family remembers him saying anything about his family
      > in Streator. The only physical evidence of his past he left is a
      > photograph which is supposed to be of himself with his family. It
      > portrays a family with parents and ten children.
      > >
      > >Thus far I have only been able to find three Scorby/Scerba/Scorba
      > families in Streator during the time he would have been there. I have
      > never found him in a family in any census. I have found a baptismal
      > record from St. Stephen's Catholic Church for a John Scerba born in
      > 1886 (on a different day than he said he was born) to Jan Scerba and
      > Mary Bartko Scerba. John and Mary also have the only family with
      > enough children to populate the photograph we have. But I have no real
      > evidence yet that is his family.
      > >
      > >I have obtained his death certificate and it does not include names
      > of his parents. I will be posting the photo in hopes that maybe
      > sometime someone might recognize it.
      > >
      > >And soon I will have more questions as I do have information about
      > Mary and John and some of their families and want to do some research
      > on them - hoping that they really are his family.
      > >
      > >Thank you.
      > >Karin Schuette Weiss
      > >Tigard, Oregon
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Karin Weiss
      Karen - I have used that particular web site quite a lot, as my husband s family is almost all in the area of Coos and Curry County. Also we have visited the
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 9, 2013
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        Karen - I have used that particular web site quite a lot, as my
        husband's family is almost all in the area of Coos and Curry County.
        Also we have visited the Bandon Museum, a really fine small museum - one
        of the best I have been to and I am a great fan of museums. They
        provided me with many obits - very few Scorby obits, though. None for
        John. Or Jessie, his second wife.

        Or third - there is an outside chance he married a woman named Mabel
        Holmes at a very young age in Streator. Then they went to Colorado,
        divorced , went back to Streator separately, and then John went to
        Washington state and then Oregon. I still need to order that divorce
        record. I do have the marriage record and it looks to be yet another
        John Scorby.

        It does strike me, though, that I have not visited either the Bandon or
        the Coquille Libraries, and I ought to do that. We are in Bandon a few
        times a year, as my husband's parents live there. I will make a point
        to do that soon. Thank you for pointing me in that direction. I have
        found a great deal of interest in searching microfilms of the old
        newspapers from the Wisconsin town where my father's family came from -
        it has been fascinating. You learn things you can't learn any other way.

        Karin Schuette Weiss


        On 4/6/2013 11:37 AM, Karen C wrote:
        >
        > As you check your research, just wondering if you have tried using a
        > public library to look through Microfilms for a copy of an obituary?
        > Found this gen web URL that lists libraries that have copies of
        > newspapers in the area.
        >
        > http://www.orgenweb.org/coos/library.htm
        >
        > I didn't find anything on any of the newspaper sites that I belong to.
        >
        > Karen
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • rd1995
        Is it possible that there was a Scorby/Scerba/Scorba family back then that was not Roman Catholic? Maybe they were Lutheran or Evangelical? Maybe the baptism
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 10, 2013
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          Is it possible that there was a Scorby/Scerba/Scorba family back then that was not Roman Catholic? Maybe they were Lutheran or Evangelical? Maybe the baptism records are in another church, even in a nearby town?

          The way that Jack/John's family hasn't turned up in the Censuses must be frustrating. Could they have lived in another ward of Streator or perhaps even Spring Valley or Braidwood?

          I stumbled across a book from a university press that, although it is ostensibly trying to discuss how Scottish miners in Streator compared with their cousins in Scotland in the 19th century, the book also has a lot about the mine employers and mix of different ethnic groups as workers in the Streator Illinois area. It's called "Colliers Across the Sea" by John H. M. Laslett.

          You can see a lot in previews through Amazon: how many Slovaks ended up in the area called "Coalville", how a young Czech Anton Cermak (later Chicago mayor, killed in an assassination attempt on FDR) once lived in Braidwood, how the houses were tinderboxes and burned down often, all the strikes, etc.

          I think it would be worth asking your local public library to borrow a copy through Interlibrary Loan, if only for background. The book's references might also give you some ideas. For example, I saw a reference to WPA interviews in the book's bibliography, but they don't seem to be digitized in the Library of Congress' small WPA section online.


          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Karin Weiss <karinsw@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > I have baptismal records I obtained from the Peoria Catholic Diocese and
          > from St. Michael the Archangel Parish (was St. Stephen Roman Catholic
          > Church) for 12 children born to John and Mary.
          > I am very much open to suggestions.
          >

          >
          >
        • Karen C
          Hello Karin,  Well looks like you are covering all of your bases.  I did notice on a few records (1910 & 1920 census) that John Scorby indicated he was born
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 10, 2013
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            Hello Karin,  Well looks like you are covering all of your bases.  I did notice on a few records (1910 & 1920 census) that John
            Scorby indicated he was born in 1886 in Austria.  He also indicated on his WWI registration that he was a citizen by his father's 
            naturalization.  In the 1910 census it states that he came to the U.S. in 1887 or 1889.  Have you seen these records and have you tried 
            to find an arrival record or a naturalization record.

            Karen

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • MGMojher
            Karin and Karen, Before Ellis Island was Castle Gardens that John Scorby would have gone through. The problem is during the early years of Ellis Island there
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 10, 2013
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              Karin and Karen,
              Before Ellis Island was Castle Gardens that John Scorby would have gone through. The problem is during the early years of Ellis Island there was a fire that destroyed a big portion of the Castle Garden records. My own relatives I have never been able to find their entry with their arrival in 1888-89. Ancestry.com has some Castle Garden records to search.

              From: Karen C
              Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 8:49 PM
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [S-R] New Member - Scorby/Scerba/Scorba and Bartko


              Hello Karin, Well looks like you are covering all of your bases. I did notice on a few records (1910 & 1920 census) that John
              Scorby indicated he was born in 1886 in Austria. He also indicated on his WWI registration that he was a citizen by his father's
              naturalization. In the 1910 census it states that he came to the U.S. in 1887 or 1889. Have you seen these records and have you tried
              to find an arrival record or a naturalization record.

              Karen

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Karin Weiss
              RD - Good point about the religion, since I still have no proof of the family. I have a busy schedule the next couple days and weekend, but am putting a note
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 11, 2013
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                RD -

                Good point about the religion, since I still have no proof of the
                family. I have a busy schedule the next couple days and weekend, but am
                putting a note in my calendar for Monday to make a call or calls to
                Lutheran/Evangelical churches in the Streator area to see what I might
                be able to find.

                And I have ordered the book through ILL - it does look like it should be
                very interesting and quite possibly helpful - especially the references
                - those are often a gold mine. Streator is a town with a fascinating
                history, but I really did not know about the Scottish part of it. That
                is particularly interesting, given that when John got to Washington
                state he married a woman of Scottish descent whose father was also a miner.

                Karin Schuette Weiss



                On 4/10/2013 8:11 PM, rd1995 wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > Is it possible that there was a Scorby/Scerba/Scorba family back then
                > that was not Roman Catholic? Maybe they were Lutheran or Evangelical?
                > Maybe the baptism records are in another church, even in a nearby town?
                >
                > The way that Jack/John's family hasn't turned up in the Censuses must
                > be frustrating. Could they have lived in another ward of Streator or
                > perhaps even Spring Valley or Braidwood?
                >
                > I stumbled across a book from a university press that, although it is
                > ostensibly trying to discuss how Scottish miners in Streator compared
                > with their cousins in Scotland in the 19th century, the book also has
                > a lot about the mine employers and mix of different ethnic groups as
                > workers in the Streator Illinois area. It's called "Colliers Across
                > the Sea" by John H. M. Laslett.
                >
                > You can see a lot in previews through Amazon: how many Slovaks ended
                > up in the area called "Coalville", how a young Czech Anton Cermak
                > (later Chicago mayor, killed in an assassination attempt on FDR) once
                > lived in Braidwood, how the houses were tinderboxes and burned down
                > often, all the strikes, etc.
                >
                > I think it would be worth asking your local public library to borrow a
                > copy through Interlibrary Loan, if only for background. The book's
                > references might also give you some ideas. For example, I saw a
                > reference to WPA interviews in the book's bibliography, but they don't
                > seem to be digitized in the Library of Congress' small WPA section online.
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Karin Weiss
                Karen - Indeed I have seen them and I have looked for immigration records for any Scorbys/Scerbas that make sense. One other problem with John is that he
                Message 7 of 14 , Apr 11, 2013
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                  Karen -

                  Indeed I have seen them and I have looked for immigration records for
                  any Scorbys/Scerbas that make sense.

                  One other problem with John is that he changes his mind about some of
                  this later. Eventually he becomes Jack Scorby - I suspect this happens
                  whenever he marries Jessie Eades Ricketts. But in the 1930 census he is
                  Jack Scorby, living in Coquille Oregon married to Jessie, still a coal
                  miner, and now he says he was born in Illinois. He also registered for
                  the draft for WWII - as John Scorby - and there he says he was born in
                  Streator (misspelled Strator) Illinois.

                  According to the 1930 census his parents were born in Austria Hungary
                  and spoke Slovak. However, his father's birthplace is crossed out and
                  above it are the initials E.N.S. Doing a little research, I think this
                  means European Non State. Which may mean that the place Jack said his
                  father came from was, at that time, in flux, and it was uncertain where
                  it belonged. Maybe someone has more information about this notation?

                  In 1940 Jack is still living in Coquille Oregon with Jessie, still a
                  coal miner, still born in Illinois.

                  Karin Schuette Weiss


                  On 4/10/2013 8:49 PM, Karen C wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Karin, Well looks like you are covering all of your bases. I
                  > did notice on a few records (1910 & 1920 census) that John
                  > Scorby indicated he was born in 1886 in Austria. He also indicated on
                  > his WWI registration that he was a citizen by his father's
                  > naturalization. In the 1910 census it states that he came to the U.S.
                  > in 1887 or 1889. Have you seen these records and have you tried
                  > to find an arrival record or a naturalization record.
                  >
                  > Karen
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Karin Weiss
                  Do you happen to know what the Castle Garden records might be called in the Ancestry Card Catalog? Karin ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  Message 8 of 14 , Apr 11, 2013
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                    Do you happen to know what the Castle Garden records might be called in
                    the Ancestry Card Catalog?

                    Karin


                    On 4/10/2013 9:12 PM, MGMojher wrote:
                    >
                    > Karin and Karen,
                    > Before Ellis Island was Castle Gardens that John Scorby would have
                    > gone through. The problem is during the early years of Ellis Island
                    > there was a fire that destroyed a big portion of the Castle Garden
                    > records. My own relatives I have never been able to find their entry
                    > with their arrival in 1888-89. Ancestry.com has some Castle Garden
                    > records to search.
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Karen C
                    Hello Karin,   This is going to be a long shot but here goes...  I found an ancestry indexed record in 1900 of a John Sabol (b. Jan. 1886 in Austria), all
                    Message 9 of 14 , Apr 14, 2013
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                      Hello Karin,  

                      This is going to be a long shot but here goes...  I found an ancestry indexed record in 1900 of a John Sabol (b. Jan. 1886 in Austria), all other children in the family were born staring in 1887 in Illinois.  His parents listed as Andrew & Mary.  The census record is very faded but shows them living at 1507 Union.  On the previous pages at 1401 Union lived John & Mary Scorbie.  I never find another Andrew and Mary, but I do find Andrew and Susan (Susanna) living again at 1507 Union.  
                      http://tinyurl.com/cceg5kx

                      I also found Andrew (widow) with children Andrew Jr. (b. 1897), Emma (b. 1904) & Mary (b. 1901).  This puts he number of children from 7 in 1900 census to at least 9 by 1904.  On the previous page is an Andrew & Suzie Sabol living at 1504 Union, arrival 1889.    
                      http://tinyurl.com/d26sdc5

                      The above record fits month/year of birth (Jan 1886), place of birth (Austria on some records) and immigration at age 1 on some records.  They live in Streator and down the street from a Scorbie.  Is it possible that he could be a Sabol/Sabel but changed his name for some reason.  Or his family changed their name.   

                      On ancestry.com
                      Andrew Scherba (death record)
                      http://tinyurl.com/brt7ry9%c2%a0%c2%a0

                      On www.findagrave.com
                      Russion Orthodox Cemetery there lists:

                      Andrew Scherba, 1852-1925

                      Susanna Scherba, 1855-1939

                      Riverview Cemetery lists:
                      Andrew Sabol, unknown-1924  (see death index on ancestry)
                      Mary Sabol, unknown-1916

                      Karen

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Karin Weiss
                      Karen C - Long shot maybe - but wow. fascinating stuff, which I am now starting to take a real good look at. So much of it does fit. Looking at the children
                      Message 10 of 14 , Apr 14, 2013
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                        Karen C -

                        Long shot maybe - but wow. fascinating stuff, which I am now starting to
                        take a real good look at. So much of it does fit. Looking at the
                        children on that 1900 census along with the old photograph I have, they
                        make perfect sense as the seven oldest children in the photo. I've not
                        quite been able to do that with the John and Mary Bartko Scorby family -
                        even with all their children it has been problematic. I need to try and
                        trace this Sabol family a bit further and see what comes of it. Thank
                        you very much.

                        Karin Schuette Weiss

                        On 4/14/2013 9:54 AM, Karen C wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello Karin,
                        >
                        > This is going to be a long shot but here goes... I found an ancestry
                        > indexed record in 1900 of a John Sabol (b. Jan. 1886 in Austria), all
                        > other children in the family were born staring in 1887 in Illinois.
                        > His parents listed as Andrew & Mary. The census record is very faded
                        > but shows them living at 1507 Union. On the previous pages at 1401
                        > Union lived John & Mary Scorbie. I never find another Andrew and
                        > Mary, but I do find Andrew and Susan (Susanna) living again at 1507
                        > Union.
                        > http://tinyurl.com/cceg5kx
                        >
                        > I also found Andrew (widow) with children Andrew Jr. (b. 1897), Emma
                        > (b. 1904) & Mary (b. 1901). This puts he number of children from 7 in
                        > 1900 census to at least 9 by 1904. On the previous page is an Andrew
                        > & Suzie Sabol living at 1504 Union, arrival 1889.
                        > http://tinyurl.com/d26sdc5
                        >
                        > The above record fits month/year of birth (Jan 1886), place of birth
                        > (Austria on some records) and immigration at age 1 on some records.
                        > They live in Streator and down the street from a Scorbie. Is it
                        > possible that he could be a Sabol/Sabel but changed his name for some
                        > reason. Or his family changed their name.
                        >
                        > On ancestry.com
                        > Andrew Scherba (death record)
                        > http://tinyurl.com/brt7ry9
                        >
                        > On www.findagrave.com
                        > Russion Orthodox Cemetery there lists:
                        >
                        > Andrew Scherba, 1852-1925
                        >
                        > Susanna Scherba, 1855-1939
                        >
                        > Riverview Cemetery lists:
                        > Andrew Sabol, unknown-1924 (see death index on ancestry)
                        > Mary Sabol, unknown-1916
                        >
                        > Karen
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >



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