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Re: [S-R] Re: Translation of marriage certificate

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  • Nat T
    Hi, I just want to say thank you to everyone that has responded to my posts and helped me translate my grandparents marriage announcement. Also, thank you for
    Message 1 of 24 , Mar 16, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi,

      I just want to say thank you to everyone that has responded to my posts and helped me translate my grandparents marriage announcement. Also, thank you for also providing me with advice and suggestions to reading Cyrillic and helping me locate other Terek family members that had posted previously and on other sites. I am grateful I found this wonderful site with great people that are willing to help.

      God bless you all!!!

      Sincerely, Natasha




      ________________________________
      From: Bette <bettetina1@...>
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 6:26 PM
      Subject: [S-R] Re: Translation of marriage certificate


       
      Natasha,
      There are a few messages on slovak-roots posted in October 2010. Look
      up posts #27845 and 27844, re: Terek, Torok, and Rak families written
      by Milan, I guess that is your cousin.
      In response to those posts, there was a recent post on Dec 25, 2012 from
      patskanovo Re: TEREK, TOROK, and RAK Families saying he was researching
      the Terek family of Pcoline for a friend living in Slovakia. You might
      want to write to him to see what he has found.
      Bette
      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Nat T <terek44@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Curt,
      >
      > Thank you for your suggestions. I thought of hiring a Slovak
      genalogist but I think it would get expensive. I saw one was charging
      $100 per hour. That is why I thought I would tackle the research myself.
      My cousin Milan has been doing research and did not find find anything
      so I decided to see if I would have better luck. I got this marriage
      announcement from a relative that is related to my grandmother's side of
      the family however, she did not have anything else that pertains to my
      grandfather.
      >
      >
      > I thought of joining ancestry.com but it is expensive for me at this
      point since we have an enormous amount of medical bills to pay. But
      nonetheless I will google the discussion group and see what comes up. I
      will try to learn or at least memorize my families name so I can
      find document s pertaining to them. How did you learn Rusyn?
      >
      > Thank you for all you suggestions. I really appreciate it!
      >
      > Natasha
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: CurtB curt67boc@...
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 1:23 AM
      > Subject: [S-R] Re: Translation of marriage certificate
      >
      >
      > Â
      > Natasha,
      >
      > Since these are the original records, there are no transciptions or
      translations existing. These records are in the Rusyn language which
      uses the Cyrillic script. So you have to know both some of the language
      AND the script to do any research.
      >
      > How did you find the records you listed if you couldn't read them? If
      you have more such, I can translate them for you as well.
      >
      > A book for English readers to learn basic Rusyn and its print and
      script is in preparation but not ready yet. You can always hire a
      Slovak genealogist. There are many there who read these records.
      >
      > You may also want to join or see the posts on the Terek family on
      ancestry.com , Other researchers are investigating your family,
      including one who claims Vasil Terek is his grandfather. You can just
      google "Terek Pcoline" and read some of their messages.
      >
      > You can also try to learn just the Cyrillic script of Rusyn so you can
      at least read or identify some names. You can use the charts of
      Ukrainian handwriting that are found online. It is very close to Rusyn.
      >
      > Good luck!
      >
      > Curt B.
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Nat T terek44@ wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello Curt,
      > >
      > > I knew where my grandfather resided but I did not know who were his
      parents. Thanks to you, now I know their names. I did try to find more
      information such as birth certificates and marriage records on Vasil
      Terek's parents Petrus and Anastasia Terek however, everything during
      that time period is written in Cyrillic. So now /i hit a stumbling
      block.
      > >
      > >  Is there a place that may alternately have transcribed the
      Cyrillic church records into Latin or Slovak (i.e. the government or do
      they keep the records in original languages it was written in)?
      > >
      > > Alternatively, are their sources where one can learn to read or
      translate Cyrillic into English?
      > >
      > > Thank you,
      > >
      > > Natasha
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ________________________________
      > > From: CurtB curt67boc@
      > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:11 AM
      > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Translation of marriage certificate
      > >
      > >
      > > ÂÂ
      > > Natasha,
      > > OK, so now you already knew that the marriage was performed in the
      Greek Catholic church in the village of Pcoline, in present day Slovak
      Republic. And that is where both families lived.
      > >
      > > Curt B.
      > >
      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Nat T <terek44@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hello Curt,
      > > >
      > > > Thank you very much!!! I really appreciate that you translated the
      marriage record for me.
      > > > I had got the document from the LDS.org file #1793321. Which is a
      collection of Greek Catholic Church records from Pcoline, Snina,
      Slovakia.
      > > >
      > > >
      https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12328-42712-25?cc=1554443&w\
      c=M99C-WFV:366804661
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > I need this information so I can start a family tree. I did not
      know who were my grandfather's parents. So hopefully now maybe I can try
      to find some of his siblings.
      > > >
      > > > Thank you once again!!!
      > > >
      > > > Natasha
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ________________________________
      > > > From: CurtB <curt67boc@>
      > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 4:38 PM
      > > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Translation of marriage certificate
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ÂÂÂ
      > > > Natasha,
      > > > This is not a marriage certificate, but the actual sacramental
      record of the marriage. You do not tell us where you got the photocopy
      and the page does not actually tell us the name of the church or place
      of marriage. Don't you already have this, or how else did you get this
      page? Tell us more.
      > > >
      > > > The headings of the columns are in Latin, but the page is written
      Rusyn. Vasil's parents are named Peter & Anastasia, and they are Greek
      Catholics. Anna's parents are named Peter and Maria Lata and they are
      Roman Catholics.
      > > >
      > > > The place of residence of these people, as most people on the page
      seems to be Prolinia, unless I misread the handwriting.
      > > >
      > > > The witnesses of the marriage are Georgi Kusintske, a Greek
      Catholic and Nikolai Lata, a Roman Catholic.
      > > >
      > > > The very next entry for marriage on the page, seems to be the
      same Nikolai Lata getting married a few days later.
      > > >
      > > > Curt B.
      > > >
      > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Nat T <terek44@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Thank you for letting me know that it did not upload the first
      time. I have uploaded the file into the slovak group files and named it
      marriage of bacilius terek.
      > > > >
      > > > > The entry I am interested in is the "numerus currens 5"
      regarding
      > > > > Bacilius and Anna. I am interested in knowing their parents
      names as
      > > > > well as the names of the witness and location (where) they got
      married.
      > > > >
      > > > > Any help would greatly be appreciated.
      > > > >
      > > > > Thank you,
      > > > >
      > > > > Natasha
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > ________________________________
      > > > > From: MGMojher <mgmojher@>
      > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 3:38 AM
      > > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of marriage certificate
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > ÃÆ'‚ÂÂÂ
      > > > > Natasha,
      > > > > Attachments do not come through. You will either have to do a
      posting on Slovak-Roots or e-mail a link to the image. Tell the image
      number, entry number and any names you know associated with your search
      for the link.
      > > > >
      > > > > From: Nat T
      > > > > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 7:36 PM
      > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > Subject: [S-R] Translation of marriage certificate
      > > > >
      > > > > Hello,
      > > > >
      > > > > I am hoping someone can help me translate my grandparents
      marriage certificate. I am attaching the document. The entry I am
      interested in is the "numerus currens 5" regarding Bacilius and Anna. I
      am interested in knowing their parents names as well as the names of the
      witness and location (where) they got married.
      > > > >
      > > > > Any help would greatly be appreciated!!!
      > > > >
      > > > > Thank you,
      > > > >
      > > > > Natasha
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Nat T
      Thank you Michael, I will try to do more research myself but if I find it too difficult then I may hire a certified genealogist. Thank you, Natasha
      Message 2 of 24 , Mar 16, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Thank you Michael,

        I will try to do more research myself but if I find it too difficult then I may hire a certified genealogist.

        Thank you,
        Natasha




        ________________________________
        From: MGMojher <mgmojher@...>
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 6:06 PM
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Translation of marriage certificate


         
        Natasha,
        I know certified genealogists that charge $20 an hour. Your $100 and hour guy is in “left field” when it comes to his rate. If you are interested write me.
        Michael Mojher

        From: Nat T
        Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:43 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Translation of marriage certificate

        Hello Curt,

        Thank you for your suggestions. I thought of hiring a Slovak genalogist but I think it would get expensive. I saw one was charging $100 per hour. That is why I thought I would tackle the research myself. My cousin Milan has been doing research and did not find find anything so I decided to see if I would have better luck. I got this marriage announcement from a relative that is related to my grandmother's side of the family however, she did not have anything else that pertains to my grandfather.

        I thought of joining ancestry.com but it is expensive for me at this point since we have an enormous amount of medical bills to pay. But nonetheless I will google the discussion group and see what comes up. I will try to learn or at least memorize my families name so I can find document s pertaining to them. How did you learn Rusyn?

        Thank you for all you suggestions. I really appreciate it!

        Natasha

        ________________________________
        From: CurtB <mailto:curt67boc%40comcast.net>
        To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 1:23 AM
        Subject: [S-R] Re: Translation of marriage certificate

        Natasha,

        Since these are the original records, there are no transciptions or translations existing. These records are in the Rusyn language which uses the Cyrillic script. So you have to know both some of the language AND the script to do any research.

        How did you find the records you listed if you couldn't read them? If you have more such, I can translate them for you as well.

        A book for English readers to learn basic Rusyn and its print and script is in preparation but not ready yet. You can always hire a Slovak genealogist. There are many there who read these records.

        You may also want to join or see the posts on the Terek family on ancestry.com , Other researchers are investigating your family, including one who claims Vasil Terek is his grandfather. You can just google "Terek Pcoline" and read some of their messages.

        You can also try to learn just the Cyrillic script of Rusyn so you can at least read or identify some names. You can use the charts of Ukrainian handwriting that are found online. It is very close to Rusyn.

        Good luck!

        Curt B.

        --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, Nat T <terek44@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Curt,
        >
        > I knew where my grandfather resided but I did not know who were his parents. Thanks to you, now I know their names. I did try to find more information such as birth certificates and marriage records on Vasil Terek's parents Petrus and Anastasia Terek however, everything during that time period is written in Cyrillic. So now /i hit a stumbling block.
        >
        > Â Is there a place that may alternately have transcribed the Cyrillic church records into Latin or Slovak (i.e. the government or do they keep the records in original languages it was written in)?
        >
        > Alternatively, are their sources where one can learn to read or translate Cyrillic into English?
        >
        > Thank you,
        >
        > Natasha
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: CurtB <curt67boc@...>
        > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:11 AM
        > Subject: [S-R] Re: Translation of marriage certificate
        >
        >
        > Â
        > Natasha,
        > OK, so now you already knew that the marriage was performed in the Greek Catholic church in the village of Pcoline, in present day Slovak Republic. And that is where both families lived.
        >
        > Curt B.
        >
        > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, Nat T <terek44@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello Curt,
        > >
        > > Thank you very much!!! I really appreciate that you translated the marriage record for me.
        > > I had got the document from the LDS.org file #1793321. Which is a collection of Greek Catholic Church records from Pcoline, Snina, Slovakia.
        > >
        > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12328-42712-25?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-WFV:366804661
        > >
        > >
        > > I need this information so I can start a family tree. I did not know who were my grandfather's parents. So hopefully now maybe I can try to find some of his siblings.
        > >
        > > Thank you once again!!!
        > >
        > > Natasha
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ________________________________
        > > From: CurtB <curt67boc@>
        > > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 4:38 PM
        > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Translation of marriage certificate
        > >
        > >
        > > ÂÂ
        > > Natasha,
        > > This is not a marriage certificate, but the actual sacramental record of the marriage. You do not tell us where you got the photocopy and the page does not actually tell us the name of the church or place of marriage. Don't you already have this, or how else did you get this page? Tell us more.
        > >
        > > The headings of the columns are in Latin, but the page is written Rusyn. Vasil's parents are named Peter & Anastasia, and they are Greek Catholics. Anna's parents are named Peter and Maria Lata and they are Roman Catholics.
        > >
        > > The place of residence of these people, as most people on the page seems to be Prolinia, unless I misread the handwriting.
        > >
        > > The witnesses of the marriage are Georgi Kusintske, a Greek Catholic and Nikolai Lata, a Roman Catholic.
        > >
        > > The very next entry for marriage on the page, seems to be the same Nikolai Lata getting married a few days later.
        > >
        > > Curt B.
        > >
        > > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, Nat T <terek44@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Thank you for letting me know that it did not upload the first time. I have uploaded the file into the slovak group files and named it marriage of bacilius terek.
        > > >
        > > > The entry I am interested in is the "numerus currens 5" regarding
        > > > Bacilius and Anna. I am interested in knowing their parents names as
        > > > well as the names of the witness and location (where) they got married.
        > > >
        > > > Any help would greatly be appreciated.
        > > >
        > > > Thank you,
        > > >
        > > > Natasha
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ________________________________
        > > > From: MGMojher <mgmojher@>
        > > > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
        > > > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 3:38 AM
        > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of marriage certificate
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ÂÂÂ
        > > > Natasha,
        > > > Attachments do not come through. You will either have to do a posting on Slovak-Roots or e-mail a link to the image. Tell the image number, entry number and any names you know associated with your search for the link.
        > > >
        > > > From: Nat T
        > > > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 7:36 PM
        > > > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
        > > > Subject: [S-R] Translation of marriage certificate
        > > >
        > > > Hello,
        > > >
        > > > I am hoping someone can help me translate my grandparents marriage certificate. I am attaching the document. The entry I am interested in is the "numerus currens 5" regarding Bacilius and Anna. I am interested in knowing their parents names as well as the names of the witness and location (where) they got married.
        > > >
        > > > Any help would greatly be appreciated!!!
        > > >
        > > > Thank you,
        > > >
        > > > Natasha
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Nat T
        Hi Ron, Wow! Thank you for the website link to convert Cyrillic to English ...this is an amazing tool!!!! Thank you...I hope others in the group will find this
        Message 3 of 24 , Mar 16, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Ron,

          Wow! Thank you for the website link to convert Cyrillic to English ...this is an amazing tool!!!!

          Thank you...I hope others in the group will find this site a useful tool.

          Natasha




          ________________________________
          From: Ron <amiak27@...>
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:39 AM
          Subject: [S-R] Re: Translation of marriage certificate


           
          Natasha,

          While nothing will substitute for learning the language or hiring a translator, I wanted to recognize my family names if I encountered them in Cyrillic. I have played with Cyrillic long enough to recognize a word or two, but names look quite different in CAPS in small case, and in cursive. Happily Steve Morse solved my problem for me, and I was able to generate a collection of names in all three forms plus the Roman letters I am familiar with.

          Take a good look at
          http://stevemorse.org/russian/cyrprintcurs.html?font=print

          and see if it helps you. No one else seems to care for the site, but it did me a lot of good!

          Ron

          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Nat T <terek44@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Curt,
          >
          > I knew where my grandfather resided but I did not know who were his parents. Thanks to you, now I know their names. I did try to find more information such as birth certificates and marriage records on Vasil Terek's parents Petrus and Anastasia Terek however, everything during that time period is written in Cyrillic. So now /i hit a stumbling block.
          >
          >  Is there a place that may alternately have transcribed the Cyrillic church records into Latin or Slovak (i.e. the government or do they keep the records in original languages it was written in)?
          >
          > Alternatively, are their sources where one can learn to read or translate Cyrillic into English?
          >
          > Thank you,
          >
          > Natasha
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: CurtB <curt67boc@...>
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:11 AM
          > Subject: [S-R] Re: Translation of marriage certificate
          >
          >
          >  
          > Natasha,
          > OK, so now you already knew that the marriage was performed in the Greek Catholic church in the village of Pcoline, in present day Slovak Republic. And that is where both families lived.
          >
          > Curt B.
          >
          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Nat T <terek44@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello Curt,
          > >
          > > Thank you very much!!! I really appreciate that you translated the marriage record for me.
          > > I had got the document from the LDS.org file #1793321. Which is a collection of Greek Catholic Church records from Pcoline, Snina, Slovakia.
          > >
          > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12328-42712-25?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-WFV:366804661
          > >
          > >
          > > I need this information so I can start a family tree. I did not know who were my grandfather's parents. So hopefully now maybe I can try to find some of his siblings.
          > >
          > > Thank you once again!!!
          > >
          > > Natasha
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ________________________________
          > > From: CurtB <curt67boc@>
          > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 4:38 PM
          > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Translation of marriage certificate
          > >
          > >
          > >  
          > > Natasha,
          > > This is not a marriage certificate, but the actual sacramental record of the marriage. You do not tell us where you got the photocopy and the page does not actually tell us the name of the church or place of marriage. Don't you already have this, or how else did you get this page? Tell us more.
          > >
          > > The headings of the columns are in Latin, but the page is written Rusyn. Vasil's parents are named Peter & Anastasia, and they are Greek Catholics. Anna's parents are named Peter and Maria Lata and they are Roman Catholics.
          > >
          > > The place of residence of these people, as most people on the page seems to be Prolinia, unless I misread the handwriting.
          > >
          > > The witnesses of the marriage are Georgi Kusintske, a Greek Catholic and Nikolai Lata, a Roman Catholic.
          > >
          > > The very next entry for marriage on the page, seems to be the same Nikolai Lata getting married a few days later.
          > >
          > > Curt B.
          > >
          > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Nat T <terek44@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Thank you for letting me know that it did not upload the first time. I have uploaded the file into the slovak group files and named it marriage of bacilius terek.
          > > >
          > > > The entry I am interested in is the "numerus currens 5" regarding
          > > > Bacilius and Anna. I am interested in knowing their parents names as
          > > > well as the names of the witness and location (where) they got married.
          > > >
          > > > Any help would greatly be appreciated.
          > > >
          > > > Thank you,
          > > >
          > > > Natasha
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ________________________________
          > > > From: MGMojher <mgmojher@>
          > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 3:38 AM
          > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation of marriage certificate
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >  
          > > > Natasha,
          > > > Attachments do not come through. You will either have to do a posting on Slovak-Roots or e-mail a link to the image. Tell the image number, entry number and any names you know associated with your search for the link.
          > > >
          > > > From: Nat T
          > > > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 7:36 PM
          > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Subject: [S-R] Translation of marriage certificate
          > > >
          > > > Hello,
          > > >
          > > > I am hoping someone can help me translate my grandparents marriage certificate. I am attaching the document. The entry I am interested in is the "numerus currens 5" regarding Bacilius and Anna. I am interested in knowing their parents names as well as the names of the witness and location (where) they got married.
          > > >
          > > > Any help would greatly be appreciated!!!
          > > >
          > > > Thank you,
          > > >
          > > > Natasha
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
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        • patskanovo
          Natasha, As we spoke,you need only contact Ivo....? He speaks some broken English and is very willing to help you as he is decsended from the same
          Message 4 of 24 , Mar 17, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Natasha,

            As we spoke,you need only contact Ivo....? He speaks some broken English and is very willing to help you as he is decsended from the same family....Ivo is quite capable of providing the information you need to complete your research....most of which now you know.


            Dennis

            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@...> wrote:
            >
            > >>> there was a recent post on Dec 25, 2012 from patskanovo Re: TEREK, TOROK, and RAK Families saying he was researching the Terek family of Pcoline for a friend living in Slovakia. You might want to write to him to see what he has found.<<<
            >
            > patskanovo is a regular on this site.
            >
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