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help translating information from 1869 census

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  • lickridge
    Hello All! I am having trouble reading information from the 1869 census. I am interesting in columns 7 (occupation) and 8 (profession) for the first two
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 16, 2013
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      Hello All! I am having trouble reading information from the 1869 census. I am interesting in columns 7 (occupation) and 8 (profession) for the first two individuals (Mihaly and Ilona) on the page linked below. I would also like to know the birthplace (colum 9) for Ilona.

      Thank you for any help!

      Here is the URL for the census page:
      https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-28476-20962-38?cc=1986782&wc=MMRC-C45:1109056921

      -Mary Ellen
    • John
      ... Just a guess based upon proximity -- Sandal, Zemplen Megye, to the southeast.
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 16, 2013
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        >>> I would also like to know the birthplace (colum 9) for Ilona. <<<

        Just a guess based upon proximity -- Sandal, Zemplen Megye, to the southeast.
      • lickridge
        Thanks, John! That is a start. -Mary Elllen
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 16, 2013
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          Thanks, John! That is a start.

          -Mary Elllen


          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@...> wrote:
          >
          > >>> I would also like to know the birthplace (colum 9) for Ilona. <<<
          >
          > Just a guess based upon proximity -- Sandal, Zemplen Megye, to the southeast.
          >
        • CurtB
          Mary Ellen, Column 7 calls him telkes= small landholder, and calls her haztartas= housekeeper. Col. 8 calls him a farmer. She has no profession. Her place of
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 16, 2013
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            Mary Ellen,

            Column 7 calls him telkes= small landholder, and calls her haztartas= housekeeper.

            Col. 8 calls him a farmer. She has no profession.

            Her place of birth is Schandal, that is the German spelling of the village of Sandal in nearby Zemplin County.

            Curt B.

            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "lickridge" <maryellen.pierson@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello All! I am having trouble reading information from the 1869 census. I am interesting in columns 7 (occupation) and 8 (profession) for the first two individuals (Mihaly and Ilona) on the page linked below. I would also like to know the birthplace (colum 9) for Ilona.
            >
            > Thank you for any help!
            >
            > Here is the URL for the census page:
            > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-28476-20962-38?cc=1986782&wc=MMRC-C45:1109056921
            >
            > -Mary Ellen
            >
          • John
            Having confirmed the village of Sandal, RC records are found under Radoma and GC records are found under Boksa. The 1869 Hungarian Census for Sandal is
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 16, 2013
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              Having confirmed the village of Sandal, RC records are found under Radoma and GC records are found under Boksa.

              The 1869 Hungarian Census for Sandal is available on film only due to errors in listing Zemplen Megye census films. Film #2189409 Item 4.



              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "lickridge" <maryellen.pierson@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks, John! That is a start.
              >
              > -Mary Elllen
              >
              >
              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@> wrote:
              > >
              > > >>> I would also like to know the birthplace (colum 9) for Ilona. <<<
              > >
              > > Just a guess based upon proximity -- Sandal, Zemplen Megye, to the southeast.
              > >
              >
            • lickridge
              Thanks! My list of films to request is growing. Mary Ellen
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 17, 2013
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                Thanks! My list of films to request is growing.

                Mary Ellen

                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@...> wrote:
                >
                > Having confirmed the village of Sandal, RC records are found under Radoma and GC records are found under Boksa.
                >
                > The 1869 Hungarian Census for Sandal is available on film only due to errors in listing Zemplen Megye census films. Film #2189409 Item 4.
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "lickridge" <maryellen.pierson@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Thanks, John! That is a start.
                > >
                > > -Mary Elllen
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > >>> I would also like to know the birthplace (colum 9) for Ilona. <<<
                > > >
                > > > Just a guess based upon proximity -- Sandal, Zemplen Megye, to the southeast.
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • lickridge
                Thank you, Curt. As a follow-up...the first page for this location indicates it was used as a business, and the last page indicates they had 2 Swiss cows,
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 17, 2013
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                  Thank you, Curt. As a follow-up...the first page for this location indicates it was used as a business, and the last page indicates they had 2 Swiss cows, 2Swiss calfs, 1pig, and 4 beehives. Could they have had these animals for their own use, or were they perhaps selling the milk, since Swiss cows were prized for the quality and quantity of milk? Would this be a "best guess" or is there a way to get more details?

                  Mary Ellen

                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Mary Ellen,
                  >
                  > Column 7 calls him telkes= small landholder, and calls her haztartas= housekeeper.
                  >
                  > Col. 8 calls him a farmer. She has no profession.
                  >
                  > Her place of birth is Schandal, that is the German spelling of the village of Sandal in nearby Zemplin County.
                  >
                  > Curt B.
                  >
                  > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "lickridge" <maryellen.pierson@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello All! I am having trouble reading information from the 1869 census. I am interesting in columns 7 (occupation) and 8 (profession) for the first two individuals (Mihaly and Ilona) on the page linked below. I would also like to know the birthplace (colum 9) for Ilona.
                  > >
                  > > Thank you for any help!
                  > >
                  > > Here is the URL for the census page:
                  > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-28476-20962-38?cc=1986782&wc=MMRC-C45:1109056921
                  > >
                  > > -Mary Ellen
                  > >
                  >
                • CurtB
                  Mary Ellen, All smallholders in villages were in a business in one way or another. They may have had a small amount of surplus milk, or made some small
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 17, 2013
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                    Mary Ellen,
                    All smallholders in villages were "in a business" in one way or another. They may have had a small amount of surplus milk, or made some small amount of cheese, and sold some honey. But as most farmers they fed and cared for their family. With this number of animals there wouldn't be much surplus at all. The census does not give the landholdings or crop acreage and type produced. What they have is just typical of smallholder farmers.

                    Curt B.

                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "lickridge" <maryellen.pierson@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Thank you, Curt. As a follow-up...the first page for this location indicates it was used as a business, and the last page indicates they had 2 Swiss cows, 2Swiss calfs, 1pig, and 4 beehives. Could they have had these animals for their own use, or were they perhaps selling the milk, since Swiss cows were prized for the quality and quantity of milk? Would this be a "best guess" or is there a way to get more details?
                    >
                    > Mary Ellen
                    >
                    > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Mary Ellen,
                    > >
                    > > Column 7 calls him telkes= small landholder, and calls her haztartas= housekeeper.
                    > >
                    > > Col. 8 calls him a farmer. She has no profession.
                    > >
                    > > Her place of birth is Schandal, that is the German spelling of the village of Sandal in nearby Zemplin County.
                    > >
                    > > Curt B.
                    > >
                    > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "lickridge" <maryellen.pierson@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hello All! I am having trouble reading information from the 1869 census. I am interesting in columns 7 (occupation) and 8 (profession) for the first two individuals (Mihaly and Ilona) on the page linked below. I would also like to know the birthplace (colum 9) for Ilona.
                    > > >
                    > > > Thank you for any help!
                    > > >
                    > > > Here is the URL for the census page:
                    > > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-28476-20962-38?cc=1986782&wc=MMRC-C45:1109056921
                    > > >
                    > > > -Mary Ellen
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • lickridge
                    Thank you, Curt. This is good to know. I m sure other family members will be interested. Mary Ellen
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 18, 2013
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                      Thank you, Curt. This is good to know. I'm sure other family members will be interested.

                      Mary Ellen

                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Mary Ellen,
                      > All smallholders in villages were "in a business" in one way or another. They may have had a small amount of surplus milk, or made some small amount of cheese, and sold some honey. But as most farmers they fed and cared for their family. With this number of animals there wouldn't be much surplus at all. The census does not give the landholdings or crop acreage and type produced. What they have is just typical of smallholder farmers.
                      >
                      > Curt B.
                      >
                      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "lickridge" <maryellen.pierson@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Thank you, Curt. As a follow-up...the first page for this location indicates it was used as a business, and the last page indicates they had 2 Swiss cows, 2Swiss calfs, 1pig, and 4 beehives. Could they have had these animals for their own use, or were they perhaps selling the milk, since Swiss cows were prized for the quality and quantity of milk? Would this be a "best guess" or is there a way to get more details?
                      > >
                      > > Mary Ellen
                      > >
                      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Mary Ellen,
                      > > >
                      > > > Column 7 calls him telkes= small landholder, and calls her haztartas= housekeeper.
                      > > >
                      > > > Col. 8 calls him a farmer. She has no profession.
                      > > >
                      > > > Her place of birth is Schandal, that is the German spelling of the village of Sandal in nearby Zemplin County.
                      > > >
                      > > > Curt B.
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "lickridge" <maryellen.pierson@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Hello All! I am having trouble reading information from the 1869 census. I am interesting in columns 7 (occupation) and 8 (profession) for the first two individuals (Mihaly and Ilona) on the page linked below. I would also like to know the birthplace (colum 9) for Ilona.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Thank you for any help!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Here is the URL for the census page:
                      > > > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-28476-20962-38?cc=1986782&wc=MMRC-C45:1109056921
                      > > > >
                      > > > > -Mary Ellen
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • CurtB
                      Mary Ellen, If you have a chance, you may want to do a bit of reading about the village of Sandal. It is quite an interesting one. It was a small agricultural
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 18, 2013
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                        Mary Ellen,
                        If you have a chance, you may want to do a bit of reading about the village of Sandal. It is quite an interesting one. It was a small agricultural village that suffered greatly in the last third of the nineteenth century, mainly from the agricultural and industrial policies of the Hungarian magnates who controlled the area. Between 1875 and 1900 almost 75 percent of the villagers emmigrated. One group to the United States, and another group went to Argentina where the new railroads opened up the unpopulated Pampas for farming. In 1900 there were only about 100 people left there

                        The village recovered somewhat in the twentieth century, but the population remains about 300 people.

                        The village has a web site with some nice pictures.

                        http://www.saris.eu.sk/sandal/

                        Curt B.

                        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "lickridge" <maryellen.pierson@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Thank you, Curt. This is good to know. I'm sure other family members will be interested.
                        >
                        > Mary Ellen
                        >
                        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Mary Ellen,
                        > > All smallholders in villages were "in a business" in one way or another. They may have had a small amount of surplus milk, or made some small amount of cheese, and sold some honey. But as most farmers they fed and cared for their family. With this number of animals there wouldn't be much surplus at all. The census does not give the landholdings or crop acreage and type produced. What they have is just typical of smallholder farmers.
                        > >
                        > > Curt B.
                        > >
                        > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "lickridge" <maryellen.pierson@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Thank you, Curt. As a follow-up...the first page for this location indicates it was used as a business, and the last page indicates they had 2 Swiss cows, 2Swiss calfs, 1pig, and 4 beehives. Could they have had these animals for their own use, or were they perhaps selling the milk, since Swiss cows were prized for the quality and quantity of milk? Would this be a "best guess" or is there a way to get more details?
                        > > >
                        > > > Mary Ellen
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Mary Ellen,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Column 7 calls him telkes= small landholder, and calls her haztartas= housekeeper.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Col. 8 calls him a farmer. She has no profession.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Her place of birth is Schandal, that is the German spelling of the village of Sandal in nearby Zemplin County.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Curt B.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "lickridge" <maryellen.pierson@> wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Hello All! I am having trouble reading information from the 1869 census. I am interesting in columns 7 (occupation) and 8 (profession) for the first two individuals (Mihaly and Ilona) on the page linked below. I would also like to know the birthplace (colum 9) for Ilona.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Thank you for any help!
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Here is the URL for the census page:
                        > > > > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-28476-20962-38?cc=1986782&wc=MMRC-C45:1109056921
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > -Mary Ellen
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
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