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Re: [S-R] Re: MRAFFKO Ellenbogen Latin detail 1775 Bratislava

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  • htcstech
    I have a suspicion that it was Germanicized to Ellenberger. Peter M. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 21 , Feb 26, 2013
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      I have a suspicion that it was Germanicized to Ellenberger.
      Peter M.

      On 27 February 2013 06:05, CurtB <curt67boc@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > Ron,
      > The surname Ellenbogen is surprisingly widespread throughout Central and
      > Eastern Europe. It is particularly found in Jewish families, though not
      > exclusively so. It is today extensive in the U.S. and Israel. No reason to
      > suppose it is associated with a place. It apparently has multiple origins
      > but is thought to have originated as a craft or occupation of carpenter
      > from the name of the tool.
      >
      > Curt B.
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" wrote:
      > >
      > > ***His wife, lady Clara, was born (maiden name) Ellenbogen.***
      > >
      > > Lady Clara Elbow? Perhaps she came from Ellenbogen, Bohemia, a fairy
      > tale appearing castle town in the elbow of the river. Today called Locket
      > (elbow) between Karlovy Vary (Karlsbad) and Mariansky Lazne (Marianbad),
      > Czech Republic. Not surprisingly, the town is located in an elbow of the
      > river.
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Peter,
      > > > It says lord Mraffko is on the five member board of administrators of
      > legal chambers. His wife, lady Clara, was born (maiden name)
      > > > Ellenbogen. I am unable to read the place name, though it seems the
      > priest is giving house numbers on this page.
      > > >
      > > > Curt B.
      > > >
      > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Curt,
      > > > > Thank you for clarifying these for me. I am indebted. If you have the
      > > > > patience then I have one more.
      > > > > His first wife has died. He remarries and has a daughter, his last
      > child
      > > > > according to the LDS index of Slovakia.
      > > > > (2nd last entry, right side)
      > > > >
      > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22657-6186-71?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJ7:2111960010
      > > > > The description has evolved somewhat. I can pick out certain words,
      > but the
      > > > > context and phraseology eludes me.
      > > > >
      > > > > FYI: It is important to find out as much as possible about him as
      > this
      > > > > newly discovered branch of my ancestors sheds much light on the
      > Galanta
      > > > > branch. I believe that the family still exists in France of which I
      > am
      > > > > waiting confirmation.
      > > > >
      > > > > Peter M.
      > > > >
      > > > > On 26 February 2013 16:58, CurtB wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > > **
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Peter,
      > > > > > The Rex Hung under his son's name means he is named Stephen after
      > St.
      > > > > > Stephen, King of Hungary (rather than St. Stephen, the first
      > Christian
      > > > > > martyr). Excell. Dom. above his name is his noble title; his
      > excellency
      > > > > > lord Mraffko.He is working in law chambers. His place is not
      > necessarily
      > > > > > different from other times, it simply says ex Citt. that is, he
      > lives in
      > > > > > the city (of Bratislava).
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Curt B.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > In the previous listing, he was enobled, but 2 years later his
      > newborn
      > > > > > > Stephanus has 'Rex Hung." added. There is also (? Dom) and the
      > addidtion
      > > > > > of
      > > > > > > Expeditorarus.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22650-11489-70?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJ3:n892102475
      > > > > > > Locus is quite different as well. Perhaps he moved around a lot?
      > > > > > > Peter M.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > On 26 February 2013 14:15, htcstech wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Georgius had a son Joannes. The entry here is a little more
      > specific,
      > > > > > but
      > > > > > > > almost all abbreviations.
      > > > > > > > Can you please decode this?
      > > > > > > > Also, the locus looks like In-Ved-Zin
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22650-8891-83?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJ3:n892102475
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Thanks
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Peter M
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > On 26 February 2013 13:54, CurtB wrote:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >> **
      > > > > >
      > > > > > > >>
      > > > > > > >>
      > > > > > > >> Peter,
      > > > > > > >> He worked for the chancery of the archbishop, not the
      > cathedral as
      > > > > > such.
      > > > > > > >> It does not say what position he held within it, a minor
      > clerk or a
      > > > > > senior
      > > > > > > >> head.
      > > > > > > >>
      > > > > > > >> Well, yes, he did come to the cathedral to have the child
      > baptized.
      > > > > > It is
      > > > > > > >> not unlikely that the cathedral was his parish church now,
      > but not
      > > > > > > >> necessarily since the register lists him as coming from
      > somewhere
      > > > > > else.
      > > > > > > >>
      > > > > > > >>
      > > > > > > >> Curt B.
      > > > > > > >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
      > > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > > >> > Thank you Curt and Julie!
      > > > > > > >> > Is it correct to assume that he worked for the Cathedral?
      > Or more
      > > > > > likely
      > > > > > > >> > that he came to the Cathedral with his wife for the baptism?
      > > > > > > >> > Peter M.
      > > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > > >> > On 26 February 2013 13:25, CurtB wrote:
      > > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > > >> > > **
      > > > > > > >>
      > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > >> > > Peter,
      > > > > > > >> > > This is the baptismal register of the cathedral church of
      > St.
      > > > > > Martin
      > > > > > > >> in
      > > > > > > >> > > Bratislava..
      > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > >> > > The description used for him is still in use today in
      > church
      > > > > > (canon)
      > > > > > > >> law.
      > > > > > > >> > > He belongs to, or is a member of (penes), the chancery
      > for the
      > > > > > > >> > > administration of temporal goods, that is, the money,
      > buildings,
      > > > > > > >> lands,
      > > > > > > >> > > investments, of the cathedral or diocese.
      > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > >> > > Since this is the cathedral church people come from many
      > different
      > > > > > > >> places.
      > > > > > > >> > > I can't read this location any better than you. Julie
      > Michutka has
      > > > > > > >> given
      > > > > > > >> > > reasonable guidance here.
      > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > >> > > Curt B.
      > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > >> > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
      > > > > > > >> > > >
      > > > > > > >> > > >
      > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > >>
      > > > > >
      > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22655-31886-28?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJM:n1505507877
      > > > > > > >> > > >
      > > > > > > >> > > > Right page, last entry.
      > > > > > > >> > > > I need to know what "(penes?) excels camera
      > cancellista" in
      > > > > > > >> reference to
      > > > > > > >> > > > the father Georgius.
      > > > > > > >> > > > I get "within the most high room (chancellery?). From
      > reading
      > > > > > the
      > > > > > > >> other
      > > > > > > >> > > > entries, I think this is a job description of some kind.
      > > > > > > >> > > > Under Locus: I read " Ex Wericz". The script is poor
      > and I'm not
      > > > > > > >> certain.
      > > > > > > >> > > > Also LDS have this book under Sv.Martina (part II) as a
      > > > > > location.
      > > > > > > >> Does
      > > > > > > >> > > > anyone know what/where that is?
      > > > > > > >> > > >
      > > > > > > >> > > > Thank you so much for your help,
      > > > > > > >> > > >
      > > > > > > >> > > > Peter M.
      > > > > > > >> > > >
      > > > > > > >> > > >
      > > > > > > >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > > > > >> > > >
      > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > >> > >
      > > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > > > > >> >
      > > > > > > >>
      > > > > > > >>
      > > > > > > >>
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ron
      Ellenbogen is already German, so it may have been changed, but not Germanized to Ellenberger. That is a small point, but perhaps worth noting. Ron
      Message 2 of 21 , Feb 26, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Ellenbogen is already German, so it may have been changed, but not Germanized to Ellenberger. That is a small point, but perhaps worth noting.

        Ron

        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:
        >
        > I have a suspicion that it was Germanicized to Ellenberger.
        > Peter M.
        >
        > On 27 February 2013 06:05, CurtB <curt67boc@...> wrote:
        >
        > > **
        > >
        > >
        > > Ron,
        > > The surname Ellenbogen is surprisingly widespread throughout Central and
        > > Eastern Europe. It is particularly found in Jewish families, though not
        > > exclusively so. It is today extensive in the U.S. and Israel. No reason to
        > > suppose it is associated with a place. It apparently has multiple origins
        > > but is thought to have originated as a craft or occupation of carpenter
        > > from the name of the tool.
        > >
        > > Curt B.
        > >
        > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" wrote:
        > > >
        > > > ***His wife, lady Clara, was born (maiden name) Ellenbogen.***
        > > >
        > > > Lady Clara Elbow? Perhaps she came from Ellenbogen, Bohemia, a fairy
        > > tale appearing castle town in the elbow of the river. Today called Locket
        > > (elbow) between Karlovy Vary (Karlsbad) and Mariansky Lazne (Marianbad),
        > > Czech Republic. Not surprisingly, the town is located in an elbow of the
        > > river.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Peter,
        > > > > It says lord Mraffko is on the five member board of administrators of
        > > legal chambers. His wife, lady Clara, was born (maiden name)
        > > > > Ellenbogen. I am unable to read the place name, though it seems the
        > > priest is giving house numbers on this page.
        > > > >
        > > > > Curt B.
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Curt,
        > > > > > Thank you for clarifying these for me. I am indebted. If you have the
        > > > > > patience then I have one more.
        > > > > > His first wife has died. He remarries and has a daughter, his last
        > > child
        > > > > > according to the LDS index of Slovakia.
        > > > > > (2nd last entry, right side)
        > > > > >
        > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22657-6186-71?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJ7:2111960010
        > > > > > The description has evolved somewhat. I can pick out certain words,
        > > but the
        > > > > > context and phraseology eludes me.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > FYI: It is important to find out as much as possible about him as
        > > this
        > > > > > newly discovered branch of my ancestors sheds much light on the
        > > Galanta
        > > > > > branch. I believe that the family still exists in France of which I
        > > am
        > > > > > waiting confirmation.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Peter M.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > On 26 February 2013 16:58, CurtB wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > **
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Peter,
        > > > > > > The Rex Hung under his son's name means he is named Stephen after
        > > St.
        > > > > > > Stephen, King of Hungary (rather than St. Stephen, the first
        > > Christian
        > > > > > > martyr). Excell. Dom. above his name is his noble title; his
        > > excellency
        > > > > > > lord Mraffko.He is working in law chambers. His place is not
        > > necessarily
        > > > > > > different from other times, it simply says ex Citt. that is, he
        > > lives in
        > > > > > > the city (of Bratislava).
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Curt B.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > In the previous listing, he was enobled, but 2 years later his
        > > newborn
        > > > > > > > Stephanus has 'Rex Hung." added. There is also (? Dom) and the
        > > addidtion
        > > > > > > of
        > > > > > > > Expeditorarus.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22650-11489-70?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJ3:n892102475
        > > > > > > > Locus is quite different as well. Perhaps he moved around a lot?
        > > > > > > > Peter M.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > On 26 February 2013 14:15, htcstech wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Georgius had a son Joannes. The entry here is a little more
        > > specific,
        > > > > > > but
        > > > > > > > > almost all abbreviations.
        > > > > > > > > Can you please decode this?
        > > > > > > > > Also, the locus looks like In-Ved-Zin
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22650-8891-83?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJ3:n892102475
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Thanks
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Peter M
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > On 26 February 2013 13:54, CurtB wrote:
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >> **
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >>
        > > > > > > > >>
        > > > > > > > >> Peter,
        > > > > > > > >> He worked for the chancery of the archbishop, not the
        > > cathedral as
        > > > > > > such.
        > > > > > > > >> It does not say what position he held within it, a minor
        > > clerk or a
        > > > > > > senior
        > > > > > > > >> head.
        > > > > > > > >>
        > > > > > > > >> Well, yes, he did come to the cathedral to have the child
        > > baptized.
        > > > > > > It is
        > > > > > > > >> not unlikely that the cathedral was his parish church now,
        > > but not
        > > > > > > > >> necessarily since the register lists him as coming from
        > > somewhere
        > > > > > > else.
        > > > > > > > >>
        > > > > > > > >>
        > > > > > > > >> Curt B.
        > > > > > > > >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
        > > > > > > > >> >
        > > > > > > > >> > Thank you Curt and Julie!
        > > > > > > > >> > Is it correct to assume that he worked for the Cathedral?
        > > Or more
        > > > > > > likely
        > > > > > > > >> > that he came to the Cathedral with his wife for the baptism?
        > > > > > > > >> > Peter M.
        > > > > > > > >> >
        > > > > > > > >> > On 26 February 2013 13:25, CurtB wrote:
        > > > > > > > >> >
        > > > > > > > >> > > **
        > > > > > > > >>
        > > > > > > > >> > >
        > > > > > > > >> > >
        > > > > > > > >> > > Peter,
        > > > > > > > >> > > This is the baptismal register of the cathedral church of
        > > St.
        > > > > > > Martin
        > > > > > > > >> in
        > > > > > > > >> > > Bratislava..
        > > > > > > > >> > >
        > > > > > > > >> > > The description used for him is still in use today in
        > > church
        > > > > > > (canon)
        > > > > > > > >> law.
        > > > > > > > >> > > He belongs to, or is a member of (penes), the chancery
        > > for the
        > > > > > > > >> > > administration of temporal goods, that is, the money,
        > > buildings,
        > > > > > > > >> lands,
        > > > > > > > >> > > investments, of the cathedral or diocese.
        > > > > > > > >> > >
        > > > > > > > >> > > Since this is the cathedral church people come from many
        > > different
        > > > > > > > >> places.
        > > > > > > > >> > > I can't read this location any better than you. Julie
        > > Michutka has
        > > > > > > > >> given
        > > > > > > > >> > > reasonable guidance here.
        > > > > > > > >> > >
        > > > > > > > >> > > Curt B.
        > > > > > > > >> > >
        > > > > > > > >> > >
        > > > > > > > >> > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
        > > > > > > > >> > > >
        > > > > > > > >> > > >
        > > > > > > > >> > >
        > > > > > > > >>
        > > > > > >
        > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22655-31886-28?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJM:n1505507877
        > > > > > > > >> > > >
        > > > > > > > >> > > > Right page, last entry.
        > > > > > > > >> > > > I need to know what "(penes?) excels camera
        > > cancellista" in
        > > > > > > > >> reference to
        > > > > > > > >> > > > the father Georgius.
        > > > > > > > >> > > > I get "within the most high room (chancellery?). From
        > > reading
        > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > >> other
        > > > > > > > >> > > > entries, I think this is a job description of some kind.
        > > > > > > > >> > > > Under Locus: I read " Ex Wericz". The script is poor
        > > and I'm not
        > > > > > > > >> certain.
        > > > > > > > >> > > > Also LDS have this book under Sv.Martina (part II) as a
        > > > > > > location.
        > > > > > > > >> Does
        > > > > > > > >> > > > anyone know what/where that is?
        > > > > > > > >> > > >
        > > > > > > > >> > > > Thank you so much for your help,
        > > > > > > > >> > > >
        > > > > > > > >> > > > Peter M.
        > > > > > > > >> > > >
        > > > > > > > >> > > >
        > > > > > > > >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > > > > > >> > > >
        > > > > > > > >> > >
        > > > > > > > >> > >
        > > > > > > > >> > >
        > > > > > > > >> >
        > > > > > > > >> >
        > > > > > > > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > > > > > >> >
        > > > > > > > >>
        > > > > > > > >>
        > > > > > > > >>
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • CurtB
        Peter, Ellenbogen is already germanicized . Berger and bogen are two quite different German words. Curt B.
        Message 3 of 21 , Feb 26, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Peter,
          Ellenbogen is already 'germanicized'. Berger and bogen are two quite different German words.

          Curt B.

          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:
          >
          > I have a suspicion that it was Germanicized to Ellenberger.
          > Peter M.
          >
          > On 27 February 2013 06:05, CurtB <curt67boc@...> wrote:
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > Ron,
          > > The surname Ellenbogen is surprisingly widespread throughout Central and
          > > Eastern Europe. It is particularly found in Jewish families, though not
          > > exclusively so. It is today extensive in the U.S. and Israel. No reason to
          > > suppose it is associated with a place. It apparently has multiple origins
          > > but is thought to have originated as a craft or occupation of carpenter
          > > from the name of the tool.
          > >
          > > Curt B.
          > >
          > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" wrote:
          > > >
          > > > ***His wife, lady Clara, was born (maiden name) Ellenbogen.***
          > > >
          > > > Lady Clara Elbow? Perhaps she came from Ellenbogen, Bohemia, a fairy
          > > tale appearing castle town in the elbow of the river. Today called Locket
          > > (elbow) between Karlovy Vary (Karlsbad) and Mariansky Lazne (Marianbad),
          > > Czech Republic. Not surprisingly, the town is located in an elbow of the
          > > river.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Peter,
          > > > > It says lord Mraffko is on the five member board of administrators of
          > > legal chambers. His wife, lady Clara, was born (maiden name)
          > > > > Ellenbogen. I am unable to read the place name, though it seems the
          > > priest is giving house numbers on this page.
          > > > >
          > > > > Curt B.
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Curt,
          > > > > > Thank you for clarifying these for me. I am indebted. If you have the
          > > > > > patience then I have one more.
          > > > > > His first wife has died. He remarries and has a daughter, his last
          > > child
          > > > > > according to the LDS index of Slovakia.
          > > > > > (2nd last entry, right side)
          > > > > >
          > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22657-6186-71?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJ7:2111960010
          > > > > > The description has evolved somewhat. I can pick out certain words,
          > > but the
          > > > > > context and phraseology eludes me.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > FYI: It is important to find out as much as possible about him as
          > > this
          > > > > > newly discovered branch of my ancestors sheds much light on the
          > > Galanta
          > > > > > branch. I believe that the family still exists in France of which I
          > > am
          > > > > > waiting confirmation.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Peter M.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > On 26 February 2013 16:58, CurtB wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > > **
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Peter,
          > > > > > > The Rex Hung under his son's name means he is named Stephen after
          > > St.
          > > > > > > Stephen, King of Hungary (rather than St. Stephen, the first
          > > Christian
          > > > > > > martyr). Excell. Dom. above his name is his noble title; his
          > > excellency
          > > > > > > lord Mraffko.He is working in law chambers. His place is not
          > > necessarily
          > > > > > > different from other times, it simply says ex Citt. that is, he
          > > lives in
          > > > > > > the city (of Bratislava).
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Curt B.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > In the previous listing, he was enobled, but 2 years later his
          > > newborn
          > > > > > > > Stephanus has 'Rex Hung." added. There is also (? Dom) and the
          > > addidtion
          > > > > > > of
          > > > > > > > Expeditorarus.
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22650-11489-70?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJ3:n892102475
          > > > > > > > Locus is quite different as well. Perhaps he moved around a lot?
          > > > > > > > Peter M.
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > On 26 February 2013 14:15, htcstech wrote:
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > Georgius had a son Joannes. The entry here is a little more
          > > specific,
          > > > > > > but
          > > > > > > > > almost all abbreviations.
          > > > > > > > > Can you please decode this?
          > > > > > > > > Also, the locus looks like In-Ved-Zin
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22650-8891-83?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJ3:n892102475
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > Thanks
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > Peter M
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > On 26 February 2013 13:54, CurtB wrote:
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >> **
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >>
          > > > > > > > >>
          > > > > > > > >> Peter,
          > > > > > > > >> He worked for the chancery of the archbishop, not the
          > > cathedral as
          > > > > > > such.
          > > > > > > > >> It does not say what position he held within it, a minor
          > > clerk or a
          > > > > > > senior
          > > > > > > > >> head.
          > > > > > > > >>
          > > > > > > > >> Well, yes, he did come to the cathedral to have the child
          > > baptized.
          > > > > > > It is
          > > > > > > > >> not unlikely that the cathedral was his parish church now,
          > > but not
          > > > > > > > >> necessarily since the register lists him as coming from
          > > somewhere
          > > > > > > else.
          > > > > > > > >>
          > > > > > > > >>
          > > > > > > > >> Curt B.
          > > > > > > > >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
          > > > > > > > >> >
          > > > > > > > >> > Thank you Curt and Julie!
          > > > > > > > >> > Is it correct to assume that he worked for the Cathedral?
          > > Or more
          > > > > > > likely
          > > > > > > > >> > that he came to the Cathedral with his wife for the baptism?
          > > > > > > > >> > Peter M.
          > > > > > > > >> >
          > > > > > > > >> > On 26 February 2013 13:25, CurtB wrote:
          > > > > > > > >> >
          > > > > > > > >> > > **
          > > > > > > > >>
          > > > > > > > >> > >
          > > > > > > > >> > >
          > > > > > > > >> > > Peter,
          > > > > > > > >> > > This is the baptismal register of the cathedral church of
          > > St.
          > > > > > > Martin
          > > > > > > > >> in
          > > > > > > > >> > > Bratislava..
          > > > > > > > >> > >
          > > > > > > > >> > > The description used for him is still in use today in
          > > church
          > > > > > > (canon)
          > > > > > > > >> law.
          > > > > > > > >> > > He belongs to, or is a member of (penes), the chancery
          > > for the
          > > > > > > > >> > > administration of temporal goods, that is, the money,
          > > buildings,
          > > > > > > > >> lands,
          > > > > > > > >> > > investments, of the cathedral or diocese.
          > > > > > > > >> > >
          > > > > > > > >> > > Since this is the cathedral church people come from many
          > > different
          > > > > > > > >> places.
          > > > > > > > >> > > I can't read this location any better than you. Julie
          > > Michutka has
          > > > > > > > >> given
          > > > > > > > >> > > reasonable guidance here.
          > > > > > > > >> > >
          > > > > > > > >> > > Curt B.
          > > > > > > > >> > >
          > > > > > > > >> > >
          > > > > > > > >> > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
          > > > > > > > >> > > >
          > > > > > > > >> > > >
          > > > > > > > >> > >
          > > > > > > > >>
          > > > > > >
          > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22655-31886-28?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJM:n1505507877
          > > > > > > > >> > > >
          > > > > > > > >> > > > Right page, last entry.
          > > > > > > > >> > > > I need to know what "(penes?) excels camera
          > > cancellista" in
          > > > > > > > >> reference to
          > > > > > > > >> > > > the father Georgius.
          > > > > > > > >> > > > I get "within the most high room (chancellery?). From
          > > reading
          > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > >> other
          > > > > > > > >> > > > entries, I think this is a job description of some kind.
          > > > > > > > >> > > > Under Locus: I read " Ex Wericz". The script is poor
          > > and I'm not
          > > > > > > > >> certain.
          > > > > > > > >> > > > Also LDS have this book under Sv.Martina (part II) as a
          > > > > > > location.
          > > > > > > > >> Does
          > > > > > > > >> > > > anyone know what/where that is?
          > > > > > > > >> > > >
          > > > > > > > >> > > > Thank you so much for your help,
          > > > > > > > >> > > >
          > > > > > > > >> > > > Peter M.
          > > > > > > > >> > > >
          > > > > > > > >> > > >
          > > > > > > > >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > > > > > >> > > >
          > > > > > > > >> > >
          > > > > > > > >> > >
          > > > > > > > >> > >
          > > > > > > > >> >
          > > > > > > > >> >
          > > > > > > > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > > > > > >> >
          > > > > > > > >>
          > > > > > > > >>
          > > > > > > > >>
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • htcstech
          My goof. I shouldn t rely on my memory in the early hours. It is Clara Ellenbergerin (1795 Budapest - no image to confirm the name), Clara Ellenbogen (1789 -
          Message 4 of 21 , Feb 26, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            My goof. I shouldn't rely on my memory in the early hours. It is Clara
            Ellenbergerin (1795 Budapest - no image to confirm the name), Clara
            Ellenbogen (1789 - Bratislava - St Martina) and finally Elena Carberin
            (1799 Budapest - no image).
            I have developed a mistrust of transcribed records and I may be jumping to
            conclusions.

            All this new information has happened 'live' over the last 24 hrs, solely
            based on index searches. I really should be looking at marriage and
            particularly death records as he (Georgius) could have married 3 times. His
            first wife was Susanna and I'm reasonably confident that Ellenbogen and
            Ellenbergerin are the same person. Now, I'm not sure of Elena Carberin, so
            I may chase that up when I'm in Budapest.

            Peter M.

            On 27 February 2013 06:24, CurtB <curt67boc@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > Peter,
            > Ellenbogen is already 'germanicized'. Berger and bogen are two quite
            > different German words.
            >
            >
            > Curt B.
            >
            > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
            > >
            > > I have a suspicion that it was Germanicized to Ellenberger.
            > > Peter M.
            > >
            > > On 27 February 2013 06:05, CurtB wrote:
            > >
            > > > **
            >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Ron,
            > > > The surname Ellenbogen is surprisingly widespread throughout Central
            > and
            > > > Eastern Europe. It is particularly found in Jewish families, though not
            > > > exclusively so. It is today extensive in the U.S. and Israel. No
            > reason to
            > > > suppose it is associated with a place. It apparently has multiple
            > origins
            > > > but is thought to have originated as a craft or occupation of carpenter
            > > > from the name of the tool.
            > > >
            > > > Curt B.
            > > >
            > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > ***His wife, lady Clara, was born (maiden name) Ellenbogen.***
            > > > >
            > > > > Lady Clara Elbow? Perhaps she came from Ellenbogen, Bohemia, a fairy
            > > > tale appearing castle town in the elbow of the river. Today called
            > Locket
            > > > (elbow) between Karlovy Vary (Karlsbad) and Mariansky Lazne
            > (Marianbad),
            > > > Czech Republic. Not surprisingly, the town is located in an elbow of
            > the
            > > > river.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Peter,
            > > > > > It says lord Mraffko is on the five member board of administrators
            > of
            > > > legal chambers. His wife, lady Clara, was born (maiden name)
            > > > > > Ellenbogen. I am unable to read the place name, though it seems the
            > > > priest is giving house numbers on this page.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Curt B.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Curt,
            > > > > > > Thank you for clarifying these for me. I am indebted. If you
            > have the
            > > > > > > patience then I have one more.
            > > > > > > His first wife has died. He remarries and has a daughter, his
            > last
            > > > child
            > > > > > > according to the LDS index of Slovakia.
            > > > > > > (2nd last entry, right side)
            > > > > > >
            > > >
            > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22657-6186-71?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJ7:2111960010
            > > > > > > The description has evolved somewhat. I can pick out certain
            > words,
            > > > but the
            > > > > > > context and phraseology eludes me.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > FYI: It is important to find out as much as possible about him as
            > > > this
            > > > > > > newly discovered branch of my ancestors sheds much light on the
            > > > Galanta
            > > > > > > branch. I believe that the family still exists in France of
            > which I
            > > > am
            > > > > > > waiting confirmation.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Peter M.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > On 26 February 2013 16:58, CurtB wrote:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > **
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > Peter,
            > > > > > > > The Rex Hung under his son's name means he is named Stephen
            > after
            > > > St.
            > > > > > > > Stephen, King of Hungary (rather than St. Stephen, the first
            > > > Christian
            > > > > > > > martyr). Excell. Dom. above his name is his noble title; his
            > > > excellency
            > > > > > > > lord Mraffko.He is working in law chambers. His place is not
            > > > necessarily
            > > > > > > > different from other times, it simply says ex Citt. that is, he
            > > > lives in
            > > > > > > > the city (of Bratislava).
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > Curt B.
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
            > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > In the previous listing, he was enobled, but 2 years later
            > his
            > > > newborn
            > > > > > > > > Stephanus has 'Rex Hung." added. There is also (? Dom) and
            > the
            > > > addidtion
            > > > > > > > of
            > > > > > > > > Expeditorarus.
            > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > >
            > > >
            > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22650-11489-70?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJ3:n892102475
            > > > > > > > > Locus is quite different as well. Perhaps he moved around a
            > lot?
            > > > > > > > > Peter M.
            > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > On 26 February 2013 14:15, htcstech wrote:
            > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > Georgius had a son Joannes. The entry here is a little more
            > > > specific,
            > > > > > > > but
            > > > > > > > > > almost all abbreviations.
            > > > > > > > > > Can you please decode this?
            > > > > > > > > > Also, the locus looks like In-Ved-Zin
            > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > >
            > > >
            > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22650-8891-83?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJ3:n892102475
            > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > Thanks
            > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > Peter M
            > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > On 26 February 2013 13:54, CurtB wrote:
            > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > >> **
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > >>
            > > > > > > > > >>
            > > > > > > > > >> Peter,
            > > > > > > > > >> He worked for the chancery of the archbishop, not the
            > > > cathedral as
            > > > > > > > such.
            > > > > > > > > >> It does not say what position he held within it, a minor
            > > > clerk or a
            > > > > > > > senior
            > > > > > > > > >> head.
            > > > > > > > > >>
            > > > > > > > > >> Well, yes, he did come to the cathedral to have the child
            > > > baptized.
            > > > > > > > It is
            > > > > > > > > >> not unlikely that the cathedral was his parish church now,
            > > > but not
            > > > > > > > > >> necessarily since the register lists him as coming from
            > > > somewhere
            > > > > > > > else.
            > > > > > > > > >>
            > > > > > > > > >>
            > > > > > > > > >> Curt B.
            > > > > > > > > >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
            > > > > > > > > >> >
            > > > > > > > > >> > Thank you Curt and Julie!
            > > > > > > > > >> > Is it correct to assume that he worked for the
            > Cathedral?
            > > > Or more
            > > > > > > > likely
            > > > > > > > > >> > that he came to the Cathedral with his wife for the
            > baptism?
            > > > > > > > > >> > Peter M.
            > > > > > > > > >> >
            > > > > > > > > >> > On 26 February 2013 13:25, CurtB wrote:
            > > > > > > > > >> >
            > > > > > > > > >> > > **
            > > > > > > > > >>
            > > > > > > > > >> > >
            > > > > > > > > >> > >
            > > > > > > > > >> > > Peter,
            > > > > > > > > >> > > This is the baptismal register of the cathedral
            > church of
            > > > St.
            > > > > > > > Martin
            > > > > > > > > >> in
            > > > > > > > > >> > > Bratislava..
            > > > > > > > > >> > >
            > > > > > > > > >> > > The description used for him is still in use today in
            > > > church
            > > > > > > > (canon)
            > > > > > > > > >> law.
            > > > > > > > > >> > > He belongs to, or is a member of (penes), the chancery
            > > > for the
            > > > > > > > > >> > > administration of temporal goods, that is, the money,
            > > > buildings,
            > > > > > > > > >> lands,
            > > > > > > > > >> > > investments, of the cathedral or diocese.
            > > > > > > > > >> > >
            > > > > > > > > >> > > Since this is the cathedral church people come from
            > many
            > > > different
            > > > > > > > > >> places.
            > > > > > > > > >> > > I can't read this location any better than you. Julie
            > > > Michutka has
            > > > > > > > > >> given
            > > > > > > > > >> > > reasonable guidance here.
            > > > > > > > > >> > >
            > > > > > > > > >> > > Curt B.
            > > > > > > > > >> > >
            > > > > > > > > >> > >
            > > > > > > > > >> > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech wrote:
            > > > > > > > > >> > > >
            > > > > > > > > >> > > >
            > > > > > > > > >> > >
            > > > > > > > > >>
            > > > > > > >
            > > >
            > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22655-31886-28?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJM:n1505507877
            > > > > > > > > >> > > >
            > > > > > > > > >> > > > Right page, last entry.
            > > > > > > > > >> > > > I need to know what "(penes?) excels camera
            > > > cancellista" in
            > > > > > > > > >> reference to
            > > > > > > > > >> > > > the father Georgius.
            > > > > > > > > >> > > > I get "within the most high room (chancellery?).
            > From
            > > > reading
            > > > > > > > the
            > > > > > > > > >> other
            > > > > > > > > >> > > > entries, I think this is a job description of some
            > kind.
            > > > > > > > > >> > > > Under Locus: I read " Ex Wericz". The script is poor
            > > > and I'm not
            > > > > > > > > >> certain.
            > > > > > > > > >> > > > Also LDS have this book under Sv.Martina (part II)
            > as a
            > > > > > > > location.
            > > > > > > > > >> Does
            > > > > > > > > >> > > > anyone know what/where that is?
            > > > > > > > > >> > > >
            > > > > > > > > >> > > > Thank you so much for your help,
            > > > > > > > > >> > > >
            > > > > > > > > >> > > > Peter M.
            > > > > > > > > >> > > >
            > > > > > > > > >> > > >
            > > > > > > > > >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
            > removed]
            > > > > > > > > >> > > >
            > > > > > > > > >> > >
            > > > > > > > > >> > >
            > > > > > > > > >> > >
            > > > > > > > > >> >
            > > > > > > > > >> >
            > > > > > > > > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > > > > > > > >> >
            > > > > > > > > >>
            > > > > > > > > >>
            > > > > > > > > >>
            > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • helene cincebeaux
            Loket is a simply gorgeous fairy tale castle - i stayed at an inn under the castle and had a ghost experience. If ever you are nearby - dont miss this really
            Message 5 of 21 , Feb 27, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Loket is a simply gorgeous fairy tale castle - i stayed at an inn under the castle and had a ghost experience. If ever you are nearby - dont miss this really wonderful place

              helene

              --- On Tue, 2/26/13, Ron <amiak27@...> wrote:

              > From: Ron <amiak27@...>
              > Subject: [S-R] Re: MRAFFKO Latin detail 1775 Bratislava
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2013, 12:09 PM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ***His wife, lady Clara, was born (maiden name)
              > Ellenbogen.***
              >
              >
              >
              > Lady Clara Elbow? Perhaps she came from Ellenbogen,
              > Bohemia, a fairy tale appearing castle town in the elbow of
              > the river. Today called Locket (elbow) between Karlovy Vary
              > (Karlsbad) and Mariansky Lazne (Marianbad), Czech Republic.
              > Not surprisingly, the town is located in an elbow of the
              > river.
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com,
              > "CurtB" wrote:
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Peter,
              >
              > > It says lord Mraffko is on the five member board of
              > administrators of legal chambers. His wife, lady Clara, was
              > born (maiden name)
              >
              > > Ellenbogen. I am unable to read the place name, though
              > it seems the priest is giving house numbers on this page.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Curt B.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com,
              > htcstech wrote:
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > Curt,
              >
              > > > Thank you for clarifying these for me. I am
              > indebted. If you have the
              >
              > > > patience then I have one more.
              >
              > > > His first wife has died. He remarries and has a
              > daughter, his last child
              >
              > > > according to the LDS index of Slovakia.
              >
              > > > (2nd last entry, right side)
              >
              > > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22657-6186-71?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJ7:2111960010
              >
              > > > The description has evolved somewhat. I can pick
              > out certain words, but the
              >
              > > > context and phraseology eludes me.
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > FYI: It is important to find out as much as
              > possible about him as this
              >
              > > > newly discovered branch of my ancestors sheds much
              > light on the Galanta
              >
              > > > branch. I believe that the family still exists in
              > France of which I am
              >
              > > > waiting confirmation.
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > Peter M.
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > On 26 February 2013 16:58, CurtB wrote:
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > > **
              >
              > > > >
              >
              > > > >
              >
              > > > > Peter,
              >
              > > > > The Rex Hung under his son's name means
              > he is named Stephen after St.
              >
              > > > > Stephen, King of Hungary (rather than St.
              > Stephen, the first Christian
              >
              > > > > martyr). Excell. Dom. above his name is his
              > noble title; his excellency
              >
              > > > > lord Mraffko.He is working in law chambers.
              > His place is not necessarily
              >
              > > > > different from other times, it simply says ex
              > Citt. that is, he lives in
              >
              > > > > the city (of Bratislava).
              >
              > > > >
              >
              > > > >
              >
              > > > > Curt B.
              >
              > > > >
              >
              > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com,
              > htcstech wrote:
              >
              > > > > >
              >
              > > > > > In the previous listing, he was enobled,
              > but 2 years later his newborn
              >
              > > > > > Stephanus has 'Rex Hung."
              > added. There is also (? Dom) and the addidtion
              >
              > > > > of
              >
              > > > > > Expeditorarus.
              >
              > > > > >
              >
              > > > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22650-11489-70?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJ3:n892102475
              >
              > > > > > Locus is quite different as well.
              > Perhaps he moved around a lot?
              >
              > > > > > Peter M.
              >
              > > > > >
              >
              > > > > > On 26 February 2013 14:15, htcstech
              > wrote:
              >
              > > > > >
              >
              > > > > > > Georgius had a son Joannes. The
              > entry here is a little more specific,
              >
              > > > > but
              >
              > > > > > > almost all abbreviations.
              >
              > > > > > > Can you please decode this?
              >
              > > > > > > Also, the locus looks like
              > In-Ved-Zin
              >
              > > > > > >
              >
              > > > > > >
              >
              > > > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-22650-8891-83?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJ3:n892102475
              >
              > > > > > >
              >
              > > > > > > Thanks
              >
              > > > > > >
              >
              > > > > > > Peter M
              >
              > > > > > >
              >
              > > > > > >
              >
              > > > > > > On 26 February 2013 13:54, CurtB
              > wrote:
              >
              > > > > > >
              >
              > > > > > >> **
              >
              > > > >
              >
              > > > > > >>
              >
              > > > > > >>
              >
              > > > > > >> Peter,
              >
              > > > > > >> He worked for the chancery of
              > the archbishop, not the cathedral as
              >
              > > > > such.
              >
              > > > > > >> It does not say what position
              > he held within it, a minor clerk or a
              >
              > > > > senior
              >
              > > > > > >> head.
              >
              > > > > > >>
              >
              > > > > > >> Well, yes, he did come to the
              > cathedral to have the child baptized.
              >
              > > > > It is
              >
              > > > > > >> not unlikely that the cathedral
              > was his parish church now, but not
              >
              > > > > > >> necessarily since the register
              > lists him as coming from somewhere
              >
              > > > > else.
              >
              > > > > > >>
              >
              > > > > > >>
              >
              > > > > > >> Curt B.
              >
              > > > > > >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com,
              > htcstech wrote:
              >
              > > > > > >> >
              >
              > > > > > >> > Thank you Curt and Julie!
              >
              > > > > > >> > Is it correct to assume
              > that he worked for the Cathedral? Or more
              >
              > > > > likely
              >
              > > > > > >> > that he came to the
              > Cathedral with his wife for the baptism?
              >
              > > > > > >> > Peter M.
              >
              > > > > > >> >
              >
              > > > > > >> > On 26 February 2013 13:25,
              > CurtB wrote:
              >
              > > > > > >> >
              >
              > > > > > >> > > **
              >
              > > > > > >>
              >
              > > > > > >> > >
              >
              > > > > > >> > >
              >
              > > > > > >> > > Peter,
              >
              > > > > > >> > > This is the baptismal
              > register of the cathedral church of St.
              >
              > > > > Martin
              >
              > > > > > >> in
              >
              > > > > > >> > > Bratislava..
              >
              > > > > > >> > >
              >
              > > > > > >> > > The description used
              > for him is still in use today in church
              >
              > > > > (canon)
              >
              > > > > > >> law.
              >
              > > > > > >> > > He belongs to, or is
              > a member of (penes), the chancery for the
              >
              > > > > > >> > > administration of
              > temporal goods, that is, the money, buildings,
              >
              > > > > > >> lands,
              >
              > > > > > >> > > investments, of the
              > cathedral or diocese.
              >
              > > > > > >> > >
              >
              > > > > > >> > > Since this is the
              > cathedral church people come from many different
              >
              > > > > > >> places.
              >
              > > > > > >> > > I can't read this
              > location any better than you. Julie Michutka has
              >
              > > > > > >> given
              >
              > > > > > >> > > reasonable guidance
              > here.
              >
              > > > > > >> > >
              >
              > > > > > >> > > Curt B.
              >
              > > > > > >> > >
              >
              > > > > > >> > >
              >
              > > > > > >> > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com,
              > htcstech wrote:
              >
              > > > > > >> > > >
              >
              > > > > > >> > > >
              >
              > > > > > >> > >
              >
              > > > > > >>
              >
              > > > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-22655-31886-28?cc=1554443&wc=M99C-ZJM:n1505507877
              >
              > > > > > >> > > >
              >
              > > > > > >> > > > Right page, last
              > entry.
              >
              > > > > > >> > > > I need to know
              > what "(penes?) excels camera cancellista" in
              >
              > > > > > >> reference to
              >
              > > > > > >> > > > the father
              > Georgius.
              >
              > > > > > >> > > > I get
              > "within the most high room (chancellery?). From
              > reading
              >
              > > > > the
              >
              > > > > > >> other
              >
              > > > > > >> > > > entries, I think
              > this is a job description of some kind.
              >
              > > > > > >> > > > Under Locus: I
              > read " Ex Wericz". The script is poor and I'm
              > not
              >
              > > > > > >> certain.
              >
              > > > > > >> > > > Also LDS have
              > this book under Sv.Martina (part II) as a
              >
              > > > > location.
              >
              > > > > > >> Does
              >
              > > > > > >> > > > anyone know
              > what/where that is?
              >
              > > > > > >> > > >
              >
              > > > > > >> > > > Thank you so
              > much for your help,
              >
              > > > > > >> > > >
              >
              > > > > > >> > > > Peter M.
              >
              > > > > > >> > > >
              >
              > > > > > >> > > >
              >
              > > > > > >> > > > [Non-text
              > portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > > > > > >> > > >
              >
              > > > > > >> > >
              >
              > > > > > >> > >
              >
              > > > > > >> > >
              >
              > > > > > >> >
              >
              > > > > > >> >
              >
              > > > > > >> > [Non-text portions of this
              > message have been removed]
              >
              > > > > > >> >
              >
              > > > > > >>
              >
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              >
              > > > > > >>
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              >
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              >
              > > > > >
              >
              > > > > >
              >
              > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have
              > been removed]
              >
              > > > > >
              >
              > > > >
              >
              > > > >
              >
              > > > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
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