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[S-R] Re: Translation Help for word on a marriage record

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  • CurtB
    Ben, Well, maybe, but there is nothing quite like the big etymological dictionaries with origins, historical examples, etc. and nothing quite as good has
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 17, 2013
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      Ben,
      Well, maybe, but there is nothing quite like the big etymological dictionaries with origins, historical examples, etc. and nothing quite as good has having a great country encyclopedia next to it as well as historical atlases. Pursuing these is how we learn more than just a new word.

      Curt B.

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen wrote:
      >
      > Curt,
      >
      > You don't need the big dictionaries if you speak Slovak (and/or Czech). http://slovnik.juls.savba.sk will do you just fine for many of these words- but again, you need also reading knowledge of Slovak--and/or German/Hungarian/Latin depending on the time period. This is the codified site, but you can reach the uncodified as well from the same page.
      >
      > However, it is always good to have a professor also back up any findings we may say we have.
      >
      > Ben
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: CurtB
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 12:40 PM
      > Subject: [S-R] Re: Translation Help for word on a marriage record
      >
      >
      >  
      > Michele et al.
      > I dropped into the university library to consult the big dictionaries today and talked to the professor of Czech. Cvokar~ ,I was assured, in this case does refer to nail making and it can mean one who produces them or deals, trades, or sells them. It refers to any type of nail; construction nails,shoe nails, etc. The conslusion was that this the village must have been a center of metal forging for so many people in the register to have been involved with this activity.
      >
      > Curt B.
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen wrote:
      > >
      > > This one will be interesting, as cvokar today is a shrink or psychiatrist-- which leads me to two conclusions: either Myto was the research hub of psychological health at the time, or we have to find the older meaning of this word. Actually, so many were cvokari (or klincar) because, originally, this was a faber clavarius, or nail maker. It looks like there was much to be built at that time, and work traditions being what they were, many people picked up the trade. SO, cvokar = nail maker.
      > >
      > Help for word on a marriage record
      > >
      > >
      > >  
      > > The one hope I can suggest is to ask the question on the Delphi Forum "Genealogy - Czech and Slovak Republic". There are a few very active people there who seem to be quite competent in language and Czech history/meaning. http://www.delphiforums.com/
      > >
      > > Ron
      > >
      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Michele,
      > > > Well, I guess we have been wrong and unhelpful so far. I looked over the register you listed for the village of Myto in the 1880's. The cvokar is neither dead nor a psychiatrist, (or a shrink, ha ha). These are very contemporary slang, meanings or derivations of the word.
      > > >
      > > > It is clear from the registers that cvokar, rolnik, statkar, kovar, sladovnik, etc. which are used repeatedly throughout, refer to status of the individual and type of ownership of homes, land, etc.
      > > >
      > > > Unfortunately the small hand dictionaries (or worse, online dictionaries)that we use are not adequate for this nineteenth century usage. I guess you need to consult the grand Czech historical dictionary in a university library, or post this query to a Czech language, history, or genealogy group.
      > > >
      > > > About one third of the people listed in the register seem to be cvokari in the village of Myto.
      > > >
      > > > Curt B.
      > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "mishyk" wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I'm trying to help out a friend, but appear to be striking out.
      > > > >
      > > > > Link to image is below. I have a copy of the page if the link to Actapublica doesn't work.
      > > > >
      > > > > http://actapublica.eu/matriky/plzen/prohlizec/6075/?strana=1
      > > > >
      > > > > The reference I'm looking at is on page 20/382 on the right hand side of the image. Under the heading of "Otec," the word is after the person's name on the first record.
      > > > >
      > > > > The word appears to be "cvokar," which Google translates as "shrink." What exactly does this term mean? It appears on many records on this page, always preceeding "v Myto."
      > > > >
      > > > > Can someone help me with this? I tried my best to use other sources before posting, but am coming up blank.
      > > > >
      > > > > Thanks in advance,
      > > > > Michele
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Ben Yahoo
      JULS often supplies all that. Sent from my iPhone ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 18, 2013
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        JULS often supplies all that.

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Jan 17, 2013, at 11:53 PM, "CurtB" <curt67boc@...> wrote:

        > Ben,
        > Well, maybe, but there is nothing quite like the big etymological dictionaries with origins, historical examples, etc. and nothing quite as good has having a great country encyclopedia next to it as well as historical atlases. Pursuing these is how we learn more than just a new word.
        >
        > Curt B.
        >
        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen wrote:
        > >
        > > Curt,
        > >
        > > You don't need the big dictionaries if you speak Slovak (and/or Czech). http://slovnik.juls.savba.sk will do you just fine for many of these words- but again, you need also reading knowledge of Slovak--and/or German/Hungarian/Latin depending on the time period. This is the codified site, but you can reach the uncodified as well from the same page.
        > >
        > > However, it is always good to have a professor also back up any findings we may say we have.
        > >
        > > Ben
        > >
        > >
        > > ________________________________
        > > From: CurtB
        > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 12:40 PM
        > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Translation Help for word on a marriage record
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Michele et al.
        > > I dropped into the university library to consult the big dictionaries today and talked to the professor of Czech. Cvokar~ ,I was assured, in this case does refer to nail making and it can mean one who produces them or deals, trades, or sells them. It refers to any type of nail; construction nails,shoe nails, etc. The conslusion was that this the village must have been a center of metal forging for so many people in the register to have been involved with this activity.
        > >
        > > Curt B.
        > >
        > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen wrote:
        > > >
        > > > This one will be interesting, as cvokar today is a shrink or psychiatrist-- which leads me to two conclusions: either Myto was the research hub of psychological health at the time, or we have to find the older meaning of this word. Actually, so many were cvokari (or klincar) because, originally, this was a faber clavarius, or nail maker. It looks like there was much to be built at that time, and work traditions being what they were, many people picked up the trade. SO, cvokar = nail maker.
        > > >
        > > Help for word on a marriage record
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Â
        > > > The one hope I can suggest is to ask the question on the Delphi Forum "Genealogy - Czech and Slovak Republic". There are a few very active people there who seem to be quite competent in language and Czech history/meaning. http://www.delphiforums.com/
        > > >
        > > > Ron
        > > >
        > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Michele,
        > > > > Well, I guess we have been wrong and unhelpful so far. I looked over the register you listed for the village of Myto in the 1880's. The cvokar is neither dead nor a psychiatrist, (or a shrink, ha ha). These are very contemporary slang, meanings or derivations of the word.
        > > > >
        > > > > It is clear from the registers that cvokar, rolnik, statkar, kovar, sladovnik, etc. which are used repeatedly throughout, refer to status of the individual and type of ownership of homes, land, etc.
        > > > >
        > > > > Unfortunately the small hand dictionaries (or worse, online dictionaries)that we use are not adequate for this nineteenth century usage. I guess you need to consult the grand Czech historical dictionary in a university library, or post this query to a Czech language, history, or genealogy group.
        > > > >
        > > > > About one third of the people listed in the register seem to be cvokari in the village of Myto.
        > > > >
        > > > > Curt B.
        > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "mishyk" wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I'm trying to help out a friend, but appear to be striking out.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Link to image is below. I have a copy of the page if the link to Actapublica doesn't work.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > http://actapublica.eu/matriky/plzen/prohlizec/6075/?strana=1
        > > > > >
        > > > > > The reference I'm looking at is on page 20/382 on the right hand side of the image. Under the heading of "Otec," the word is after the person's name on the first record.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > The word appears to be "cvokar," which Google translates as "shrink." What exactly does this term mean? It appears on many records on this page, always preceeding "v Myto."
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Can someone help me with this? I tried my best to use other sources before posting, but am coming up blank.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Thanks in advance,
        > > > > > Michele
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ben Yahoo
        Then again, it used to. :-p now it seems they have gutted some of the best material. Sent from my iPhone ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 18, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Then again, it used to. :-p now it seems they have gutted some of the best material.

          Sent from my iPhone

          On Jan 17, 2013, at 11:53 PM, "CurtB" <curt67boc@...> wrote:

          > Ben,
          > Well, maybe, but there is nothing quite like the big etymological dictionaries with origins, historical examples, etc. and nothing quite as good has having a great country encyclopedia next to it as well as historical atlases. Pursuing these is how we learn more than just a new word.
          >
          > Curt B.
          >
          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen wrote:
          > >
          > > Curt,
          > >
          > > You don't need the big dictionaries if you speak Slovak (and/or Czech). http://slovnik.juls.savba.sk will do you just fine for many of these words- but again, you need also reading knowledge of Slovak--and/or German/Hungarian/Latin depending on the time period. This is the codified site, but you can reach the uncodified as well from the same page.
          > >
          > > However, it is always good to have a professor also back up any findings we may say we have.
          > >
          > > Ben
          > >
          > >
          > > ________________________________
          > > From: CurtB
          > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 12:40 PM
          > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Translation Help for word on a marriage record
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Michele et al.
          > > I dropped into the university library to consult the big dictionaries today and talked to the professor of Czech. Cvokar~ ,I was assured, in this case does refer to nail making and it can mean one who produces them or deals, trades, or sells them. It refers to any type of nail; construction nails,shoe nails, etc. The conslusion was that this the village must have been a center of metal forging for so many people in the register to have been involved with this activity.
          > >
          > > Curt B.
          > >
          > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen wrote:
          > > >
          > > > This one will be interesting, as cvokar today is a shrink or psychiatrist-- which leads me to two conclusions: either Myto was the research hub of psychological health at the time, or we have to find the older meaning of this word. Actually, so many were cvokari (or klincar) because, originally, this was a faber clavarius, or nail maker. It looks like there was much to be built at that time, and work traditions being what they were, many people picked up the trade. SO, cvokar = nail maker.
          > > >
          > > Help for word on a marriage record
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Â
          > > > The one hope I can suggest is to ask the question on the Delphi Forum "Genealogy - Czech and Slovak Republic". There are a few very active people there who seem to be quite competent in language and Czech history/meaning. http://www.delphiforums.com/
          > > >
          > > > Ron
          > > >
          > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Michele,
          > > > > Well, I guess we have been wrong and unhelpful so far. I looked over the register you listed for the village of Myto in the 1880's. The cvokar is neither dead nor a psychiatrist, (or a shrink, ha ha). These are very contemporary slang, meanings or derivations of the word.
          > > > >
          > > > > It is clear from the registers that cvokar, rolnik, statkar, kovar, sladovnik, etc. which are used repeatedly throughout, refer to status of the individual and type of ownership of homes, land, etc.
          > > > >
          > > > > Unfortunately the small hand dictionaries (or worse, online dictionaries)that we use are not adequate for this nineteenth century usage. I guess you need to consult the grand Czech historical dictionary in a university library, or post this query to a Czech language, history, or genealogy group.
          > > > >
          > > > > About one third of the people listed in the register seem to be cvokari in the village of Myto.
          > > > >
          > > > > Curt B.
          > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "mishyk" wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I'm trying to help out a friend, but appear to be striking out.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Link to image is below. I have a copy of the page if the link to Actapublica doesn't work.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > http://actapublica.eu/matriky/plzen/prohlizec/6075/?strana=1
          > > > > >
          > > > > > The reference I'm looking at is on page 20/382 on the right hand side of the image. Under the heading of "Otec," the word is after the person's name on the first record.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > The word appears to be "cvokar," which Google translates as "shrink." What exactly does this term mean? It appears on many records on this page, always preceeding "v Myto."
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Can someone help me with this? I tried my best to use other sources before posting, but am coming up blank.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Thanks in advance,
          > > > > > Michele
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Armata, Joseph R
          It wasn t all that unusual for a village or group of villages to specialize in some craft, not just in Slovakia but in other neighboring areas too. Sometimes
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 18, 2013
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            It wasn't all that unusual for a village or group of villages to specialize in some craft, not just in Slovakia but in other neighboring areas too. Sometimes the craft might be very specialized. A village or area might be well known for making flour sifting bags for mills, cane reeds for looms, certain types of furniture, etc. Apparently this village specialized in nails.

            Joe


            -----Original Message-----
            From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CurtB
            Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 12:41 PM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [S-R] Re: Translation Help for word on a marriage record



            Michele et al.
            I dropped into the university library to consult the big dictionaries today and talked to the professor of Czech. Cvokar~ ,I was assured, in this case does refer to nail making and it can mean one who produces them or deals, trades, or sells them. It refers to any type of nail; construction nails,shoe nails, etc. The conslusion was that this the village must have been a center of metal forging for so many people in the register to have been involved with this activity.

            Curt B.

            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> , Ben Sorensen wrote:
            >
            > This one will be interesting, as cvokar today is a shrink or psychiatrist-- which leads me to two conclusions: either Myto was the research hub of psychological health at the time, or we have to find the older meaning of this word. Actually, so many were cvokari (or klincar) because, originally, this was a faber clavarius, or nail maker. It looks like there was much to be built at that time, and work traditions being what they were, many people picked up the trade. SO, cvokar = nail maker.
            >
            Help for word on a marriage record
            >
            >
            > Â
            > The one hope I can suggest is to ask the question on the Delphi Forum "Genealogy - Czech and Slovak Republic". There are a few very active people there who seem to be quite competent in language and Czech history/meaning. http://www.delphiforums.com/
            >
            > Ron
            >
            > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> , "CurtB" wrote:
            > >
            > > Michele,
            > > Well, I guess we have been wrong and unhelpful so far. I looked over the register you listed for the village of Myto in the 1880's. The cvokar is neither dead nor a psychiatrist, (or a shrink, ha ha). These are very contemporary slang, meanings or derivations of the word.
            > >
            > > It is clear from the registers that cvokar, rolnik, statkar, kovar, sladovnik, etc. which are used repeatedly throughout, refer to status of the individual and type of ownership of homes, land, etc.
            > >
            > > Unfortunately the small hand dictionaries (or worse, online dictionaries)that we use are not adequate for this nineteenth century usage. I guess you need to consult the grand Czech historical dictionary in a university library, or post this query to a Czech language, history, or genealogy group.
            > >
            > > About one third of the people listed in the register seem to be cvokari in the village of Myto.
            > >
            > > Curt B.
            > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> , "mishyk" wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I'm trying to help out a friend, but appear to be striking out.
            > > >
            > > > Link to image is below. I have a copy of the page if the link to Actapublica doesn't work.
            > > >
            > > > http://actapublica.eu/matriky/plzen/prohlizec/6075/?strana=1
            > > >
            > > > The reference I'm looking at is on page 20/382 on the right hand side of the image. Under the heading of "Otec," the word is after the person's name on the first record.
            > > >
            > > > The word appears to be "cvokar," which Google translates as "shrink." What exactly does this term mean? It appears on many records on this page, always preceeding "v Myto."
            > > >
            > > > Can someone help me with this? I tried my best to use other sources before posting, but am coming up blank.
            > > >
            > > > Thanks in advance,
            > > > Michele
            > > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
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