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Re: [S-R] Re: Translation Help for word on a marriage record

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  • htcstech
    There is a Latin-German-Hungarian dictionary of terms I have somewhere. If I find it I ll look it up as one of the words on tha Acta site translated to
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 17, 2013
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      There is a Latin-German-Hungarian dictionary of terms I have somewhere. If
      I find it I'll look it up as one of the words on tha Acta site translated
      to 'Washed'.

      Peter M.



      On 17 January 2013 23:33, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > This one will be interesting, as cvokar today is a shrink or
      > psychiatrist-- which leads me to two conclusions: either Myto was the
      > research hub of psychological health at the time, or we have to find the
      > older meaning of this word. Actually, so many were cvokari (or klincar)
      > because, originally, this was a faber clavarius, or nail maker. It looks
      > like there was much to be built at that time, and work traditions being
      > what they were, many people picked up the trade. SO, cvokar = nail maker.
      >
      > Sometimes, you just cannot rely on Google translate. :-) I have never
      > heard cvokar to mean "dead," but it would not surprise me to find a slang
      > term using it as that. The JULS database doesn't even have it there meaning
      > "a shrink," so slang variations of the word may not be readily found
      > either. We just happened to luck out that Google Translate had it as
      > "shrink."
      >
      > The organization JULS has a very old dictionary in their database, but you
      > pretty much need to speak Slovak to use it, and Latin, German, or Hungarian
      > to make heads or tails of the definition.
      > Ben
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Ron amiak27@...>
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 12:14 AM
      > Subject: [S-R] Re: Translation Help for word on a marriage record
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > The one hope I can suggest is to ask the question on the Delphi Forum
      > "Genealogy - Czech and Slovak Republic". There are a few very active people
      > there who seem to be quite competent in language and Czech history/meaning.
      > http://www.delphiforums.com/
      >
      > Ron
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" wrote:
      > >
      > > Michele,
      > > Well, I guess we have been wrong and unhelpful so far. I looked over the
      > register you listed for the village of Myto in the 1880's. The cvokar is
      > neither dead nor a psychiatrist, (or a shrink, ha ha). These are very
      > contemporary slang, meanings or derivations of the word.
      > >
      > > It is clear from the registers that cvokar, rolnik, statkar, kovar,
      > sladovnik, etc. which are used repeatedly throughout, refer to status of
      > the individual and type of ownership of homes, land, etc.
      > >
      > > Unfortunately the small hand dictionaries (or worse, online
      > dictionaries)that we use are not adequate for this nineteenth century
      > usage. I guess you need to consult the grand Czech historical dictionary in
      > a university library, or post this query to a Czech language, history, or
      > genealogy group.
      > >
      > > About one third of the people listed in the register seem to be cvokari
      > in the village of Myto.
      > >
      > > Curt B.
      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "mishyk" wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I'm trying to help out a friend, but appear to be striking out.
      > > >
      > > > Link to image is below. I have a copy of the page if the link to
      > Actapublica doesn't work.
      > > >
      > > > http://actapublica.eu/matriky/plzen/prohlizec/6075/?strana=1
      > > >
      > > > The reference I'm looking at is on page 20/382 on the right hand side
      > of the image. Under the heading of "Otec," the word is after the person's
      > name on the first record.
      > > >
      > > > The word appears to be "cvokar," which Google translates as "shrink."
      > What exactly does this term mean? It appears on many records on this page,
      > always preceeding "v Myto."
      > > >
      > > > Can someone help me with this? I tried my best to use other sources
      > before posting, but am coming up blank.
      > > >
      > > > Thanks in advance,
      > > > Michele
      > > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ben Yahoo
      Thank you, for it will help many using the JULS site. It gives definitions in an older Slovak, as well as these three languages. The term is nail maker or
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 17, 2013
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        Thank you, for it will help many using the JULS site. It gives definitions in an older Slovak, as well as these three languages.

        The term is "nail maker" or "nail smith," though.

        Ben

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Jan 17, 2013, at 8:14 AM, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:

        > There is a Latin-German-Hungarian dictionary of terms I have somewhere. If
        > I find it I'll look it up as one of the words on tha Acta site translated
        > to 'Washed'.
        >
        > Peter M.
        >
        > On 17 January 2013 23:33, Ben Sorensen cerrunos1@...> wrote:
        >
        > > **
        > >
        > >
        > > This one will be interesting, as cvokar today is a shrink or
        > > psychiatrist-- which leads me to two conclusions: either Myto was the
        > > research hub of psychological health at the time, or we have to find the
        > > older meaning of this word. Actually, so many were cvokari (or klincar)
        > > because, originally, this was a faber clavarius, or nail maker. It looks
        > > like there was much to be built at that time, and work traditions being
        > > what they were, many people picked up the trade. SO, cvokar = nail maker.
        > >
        > > Sometimes, you just cannot rely on Google translate. :-) I have never
        > > heard cvokar to mean "dead," but it would not surprise me to find a slang
        > > term using it as that. The JULS database doesn't even have it there meaning
        > > "a shrink," so slang variations of the word may not be readily found
        > > either. We just happened to luck out that Google Translate had it as
        > > "shrink."
        > >
        > > The organization JULS has a very old dictionary in their database, but you
        > > pretty much need to speak Slovak to use it, and Latin, German, or Hungarian
        > > to make heads or tails of the definition.
        > > Ben
        > >
        > > ________________________________
        > > From: Ron amiak27@...>
        > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 12:14 AM
        > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Translation Help for word on a marriage record
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > The one hope I can suggest is to ask the question on the Delphi Forum
        > > "Genealogy - Czech and Slovak Republic". There are a few very active people
        > > there who seem to be quite competent in language and Czech history/meaning.
        > > http://www.delphiforums.com/
        > >
        > > Ron
        > >
        > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Michele,
        > > > Well, I guess we have been wrong and unhelpful so far. I looked over the
        > > register you listed for the village of Myto in the 1880's. The cvokar is
        > > neither dead nor a psychiatrist, (or a shrink, ha ha). These are very
        > > contemporary slang, meanings or derivations of the word.
        > > >
        > > > It is clear from the registers that cvokar, rolnik, statkar, kovar,
        > > sladovnik, etc. which are used repeatedly throughout, refer to status of
        > > the individual and type of ownership of homes, land, etc.
        > > >
        > > > Unfortunately the small hand dictionaries (or worse, online
        > > dictionaries)that we use are not adequate for this nineteenth century
        > > usage. I guess you need to consult the grand Czech historical dictionary in
        > > a university library, or post this query to a Czech language, history, or
        > > genealogy group.
        > > >
        > > > About one third of the people listed in the register seem to be cvokari
        > > in the village of Myto.
        > > >
        > > > Curt B.
        > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "mishyk" wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > I'm trying to help out a friend, but appear to be striking out.
        > > > >
        > > > > Link to image is below. I have a copy of the page if the link to
        > > Actapublica doesn't work.
        > > > >
        > > > > http://actapublica.eu/matriky/plzen/prohlizec/6075/?strana=1
        > > > >
        > > > > The reference I'm looking at is on page 20/382 on the right hand side
        > > of the image. Under the heading of "Otec," the word is after the person's
        > > name on the first record.
        > > > >
        > > > > The word appears to be "cvokar," which Google translates as "shrink."
        > > What exactly does this term mean? It appears on many records on this page,
        > > always preceeding "v Myto."
        > > > >
        > > > > Can someone help me with this? I tried my best to use other sources
        > > before posting, but am coming up blank.
        > > > >
        > > > > Thanks in advance,
        > > > > Michele
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • CurtB
        Michele et al. I dropped into the university library to consult the big dictionaries today and talked to the professor of Czech. Cvokar~ ,I was assured, in
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 17, 2013
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          Michele et al.
          I dropped into the university library to consult the big dictionaries today and talked to the professor of Czech. Cvokar~ ,I was assured, in this case does refer to nail making and it can mean one who produces them or deals, trades, or sells them. It refers to any type of nail; construction nails,shoe nails, etc. The conslusion was that this the village must have been a center of metal forging for so many people in the register to have been involved with this activity.

          Curt B.

          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen wrote:
          >
          > This one will be interesting, as cvokar today is a shrink or psychiatrist-- which leads me to two conclusions: either Myto was the research hub of psychological health at the time, or we have to find the older meaning of this word. Actually, so many were cvokari (or klincar) because, originally, this was a faber clavarius, or nail maker. It looks like there was much to be built at that time, and work traditions being what they were, many people picked up the trade. SO, cvokar = nail maker.
          >
          Help for word on a marriage record
          >
          >
          >  
          > The one hope I can suggest is to ask the question on the Delphi Forum "Genealogy - Czech and Slovak Republic". There are a few very active people there who seem to be quite competent in language and Czech history/meaning. http://www.delphiforums.com/
          >
          > Ron
          >
          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" wrote:
          > >
          > > Michele,
          > > Well, I guess we have been wrong and unhelpful so far. I looked over the register you listed for the village of Myto in the 1880's. The cvokar is neither dead nor a psychiatrist, (or a shrink, ha ha). These are very contemporary slang, meanings or derivations of the word.
          > >
          > > It is clear from the registers that cvokar, rolnik, statkar, kovar, sladovnik, etc. which are used repeatedly throughout, refer to status of the individual and type of ownership of homes, land, etc.
          > >
          > > Unfortunately the small hand dictionaries (or worse, online dictionaries)that we use are not adequate for this nineteenth century usage. I guess you need to consult the grand Czech historical dictionary in a university library, or post this query to a Czech language, history, or genealogy group.
          > >
          > > About one third of the people listed in the register seem to be cvokari in the village of Myto.
          > >
          > > Curt B.
          > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "mishyk" wrote:
          > > >
          > > > I'm trying to help out a friend, but appear to be striking out.
          > > >
          > > > Link to image is below. I have a copy of the page if the link to Actapublica doesn't work.
          > > >
          > > > http://actapublica.eu/matriky/plzen/prohlizec/6075/?strana=1
          > > >
          > > > The reference I'm looking at is on page 20/382 on the right hand side of the image. Under the heading of "Otec," the word is after the person's name on the first record.
          > > >
          > > > The word appears to be "cvokar," which Google translates as "shrink." What exactly does this term mean? It appears on many records on this page, always preceeding "v Myto."
          > > >
          > > > Can someone help me with this? I tried my best to use other sources before posting, but am coming up blank.
          > > >
          > > > Thanks in advance,
          > > > Michele
          > > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Julie Michutka
          ... It s probably http://www.vkjb.sk/File/anyakonyvvezetokszotara.PDF, and it includes Slovak as well. Ladislav Rosival had mentioned it some time back, and I
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 17, 2013
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            On Jan 17, 2013, at 8:14 AM, htcstech wrote:

            > There is a Latin-German-Hungarian dictionary of terms I have somewhere.

            It's probably http://www.vkjb.sk/File/anyakonyvvezetokszotara.PDF, and it includes Slovak as well. Ladislav Rosival had mentioned it some time back, and I blogged about it here: http://www.saintcrossupheaval.blogspot.com/2011/05/new-to-me-resource-for-central-european.html

            Julie Michutka
            jmm@...



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • mishyk
            Thank you! I ll try to see if I can further research this village to see exactly what type of industries were around during this time frame. Michele
            Message 5 of 18 , Jan 17, 2013
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              Thank you! I'll try to see if I can further research this village to see exactly what type of industries were around during this time frame.

              Michele

              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" wrote:
              >
              > Michele et al.
              > I dropped into the university library to consult the big dictionaries today and talked to the professor of Czech. Cvokar~ ,I was assured, in this case does refer to nail making and it can mean one who produces them or deals, trades, or sells them. It refers to any type of nail; construction nails,shoe nails, etc. The conslusion was that this the village must have been a center of metal forging for so many people in the register to have been involved with this activity.
              >
              > Curt B.
              >
              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen wrote:
              > >
              > > This one will be interesting, as cvokar today is a shrink or psychiatrist-- which leads me to two conclusions: either Myto was the research hub of psychological health at the time, or we have to find the older meaning of this word. Actually, so many were cvokari (or klincar) because, originally, this was a faber clavarius, or nail maker. It looks like there was much to be built at that time, and work traditions being what they were, many people picked up the trade. SO, cvokar = nail maker.
              > >
              > Help for word on a marriage record
              > >
              > >
              > >  
              > > The one hope I can suggest is to ask the question on the Delphi Forum "Genealogy - Czech and Slovak Republic". There are a few very active people there who seem to be quite competent in language and Czech history/meaning. http://www.delphiforums.com/
              > >
              > > Ron
              > >
              > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Michele,
              > > > Well, I guess we have been wrong and unhelpful so far. I looked over the register you listed for the village of Myto in the 1880's. The cvokar is neither dead nor a psychiatrist, (or a shrink, ha ha). These are very contemporary slang, meanings or derivations of the word.
              > > >
              > > > It is clear from the registers that cvokar, rolnik, statkar, kovar, sladovnik, etc. which are used repeatedly throughout, refer to status of the individual and type of ownership of homes, land, etc.
              > > >
              > > > Unfortunately the small hand dictionaries (or worse, online dictionaries)that we use are not adequate for this nineteenth century usage. I guess you need to consult the grand Czech historical dictionary in a university library, or post this query to a Czech language, history, or genealogy group.
              > > >
              > > > About one third of the people listed in the register seem to be cvokari in the village of Myto.
              > > >
              > > > Curt B.
              > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "mishyk" wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > I'm trying to help out a friend, but appear to be striking out.
              > > > >
              > > > > Link to image is below. I have a copy of the page if the link to Actapublica doesn't work.
              > > > >
              > > > > http://actapublica.eu/matriky/plzen/prohlizec/6075/?strana=1
              > > > >
              > > > > The reference I'm looking at is on page 20/382 on the right hand side of the image. Under the heading of "Otec," the word is after the person's name on the first record.
              > > > >
              > > > > The word appears to be "cvokar," which Google translates as "shrink." What exactly does this term mean? It appears on many records on this page, always preceeding "v Myto."
              > > > >
              > > > > Can someone help me with this? I tried my best to use other sources before posting, but am coming up blank.
              > > > >
              > > > > Thanks in advance,
              > > > > Michele
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
            • Ben Sorensen
              Curt, You don t need the big dictionaries if you speak Slovak (and/or Czech). http://slovnik.juls.savba.sk will do you just fine for many of these words- but
              Message 6 of 18 , Jan 17, 2013
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                Curt,

                You don't need the big dictionaries if you speak Slovak (and/or Czech). http://slovnik.juls.savba.sk will do you just fine for many of these words- but again, you need also reading knowledge of Slovak--and/or German/Hungarian/Latin depending on the time period. This is the codified site, but you can reach the uncodified as well from the same page.

                However, it is always good to have a professor also back up any findings we may say we have.

                Ben


                ________________________________
                From: CurtB <curt67boc@...>
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 12:40 PM
                Subject: [S-R] Re: Translation Help for word on a marriage record


                 
                Michele et al.
                I dropped into the university library to consult the big dictionaries today and talked to the professor of Czech. Cvokar~ ,I was assured, in this case does refer to nail making and it can mean one who produces them or deals, trades, or sells them. It refers to any type of nail; construction nails,shoe nails, etc. The conslusion was that this the village must have been a center of metal forging for so many people in the register to have been involved with this activity.

                Curt B.

                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen wrote:
                >
                > This one will be interesting, as cvokar today is a shrink or psychiatrist-- which leads me to two conclusions: either Myto was the research hub of psychological health at the time, or we have to find the older meaning of this word. Actually, so many were cvokari (or klincar) because, originally, this was a faber clavarius, or nail maker. It looks like there was much to be built at that time, and work traditions being what they were, many people picked up the trade. SO, cvokar = nail maker.
                >
                Help for word on a marriage record
                >
                >
                >  
                > The one hope I can suggest is to ask the question on the Delphi Forum "Genealogy - Czech and Slovak Republic". There are a few very active people there who seem to be quite competent in language and Czech history/meaning. http://www.delphiforums.com/
                >
                > Ron
                >
                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" wrote:
                > >
                > > Michele,
                > > Well, I guess we have been wrong and unhelpful so far. I looked over the register you listed for the village of Myto in the 1880's. The cvokar is neither dead nor a psychiatrist, (or a shrink, ha ha). These are very contemporary slang, meanings or derivations of the word.
                > >
                > > It is clear from the registers that cvokar, rolnik, statkar, kovar, sladovnik, etc. which are used repeatedly throughout, refer to status of the individual and type of ownership of homes, land, etc.
                > >
                > > Unfortunately the small hand dictionaries (or worse, online dictionaries)that we use are not adequate for this nineteenth century usage. I guess you need to consult the grand Czech historical dictionary in a university library, or post this query to a Czech language, history, or genealogy group.
                > >
                > > About one third of the people listed in the register seem to be cvokari in the village of Myto.
                > >
                > > Curt B.
                > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "mishyk" wrote:
                > > >
                > > > I'm trying to help out a friend, but appear to be striking out.
                > > >
                > > > Link to image is below. I have a copy of the page if the link to Actapublica doesn't work.
                > > >
                > > > http://actapublica.eu/matriky/plzen/prohlizec/6075/?strana=1
                > > >
                > > > The reference I'm looking at is on page 20/382 on the right hand side of the image. Under the heading of "Otec," the word is after the person's name on the first record.
                > > >
                > > > The word appears to be "cvokar," which Google translates as "shrink." What exactly does this term mean? It appears on many records on this page, always preceeding "v Myto."
                > > >
                > > > Can someone help me with this? I tried my best to use other sources before posting, but am coming up blank.
                > > >
                > > > Thanks in advance,
                > > > Michele
                > > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • CurtB
                Ben, Well, maybe, but there is nothing quite like the big etymological dictionaries with origins, historical examples, etc. and nothing quite as good has
                Message 7 of 18 , Jan 17, 2013
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                  Ben,
                  Well, maybe, but there is nothing quite like the big etymological dictionaries with origins, historical examples, etc. and nothing quite as good has having a great country encyclopedia next to it as well as historical atlases. Pursuing these is how we learn more than just a new word.

                  Curt B.

                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen wrote:
                  >
                  > Curt,
                  >
                  > You don't need the big dictionaries if you speak Slovak (and/or Czech). http://slovnik.juls.savba.sk will do you just fine for many of these words- but again, you need also reading knowledge of Slovak--and/or German/Hungarian/Latin depending on the time period. This is the codified site, but you can reach the uncodified as well from the same page.
                  >
                  > However, it is always good to have a professor also back up any findings we may say we have.
                  >
                  > Ben
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: CurtB
                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 12:40 PM
                  > Subject: [S-R] Re: Translation Help for word on a marriage record
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  > Michele et al.
                  > I dropped into the university library to consult the big dictionaries today and talked to the professor of Czech. Cvokar~ ,I was assured, in this case does refer to nail making and it can mean one who produces them or deals, trades, or sells them. It refers to any type of nail; construction nails,shoe nails, etc. The conslusion was that this the village must have been a center of metal forging for so many people in the register to have been involved with this activity.
                  >
                  > Curt B.
                  >
                  > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen wrote:
                  > >
                  > > This one will be interesting, as cvokar today is a shrink or psychiatrist-- which leads me to two conclusions: either Myto was the research hub of psychological health at the time, or we have to find the older meaning of this word. Actually, so many were cvokari (or klincar) because, originally, this was a faber clavarius, or nail maker. It looks like there was much to be built at that time, and work traditions being what they were, many people picked up the trade. SO, cvokar = nail maker.
                  > >
                  > Help for word on a marriage record
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >  
                  > > The one hope I can suggest is to ask the question on the Delphi Forum "Genealogy - Czech and Slovak Republic". There are a few very active people there who seem to be quite competent in language and Czech history/meaning. http://www.delphiforums.com/
                  > >
                  > > Ron
                  > >
                  > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Michele,
                  > > > Well, I guess we have been wrong and unhelpful so far. I looked over the register you listed for the village of Myto in the 1880's. The cvokar is neither dead nor a psychiatrist, (or a shrink, ha ha). These are very contemporary slang, meanings or derivations of the word.
                  > > >
                  > > > It is clear from the registers that cvokar, rolnik, statkar, kovar, sladovnik, etc. which are used repeatedly throughout, refer to status of the individual and type of ownership of homes, land, etc.
                  > > >
                  > > > Unfortunately the small hand dictionaries (or worse, online dictionaries)that we use are not adequate for this nineteenth century usage. I guess you need to consult the grand Czech historical dictionary in a university library, or post this query to a Czech language, history, or genealogy group.
                  > > >
                  > > > About one third of the people listed in the register seem to be cvokari in the village of Myto.
                  > > >
                  > > > Curt B.
                  > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "mishyk" wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I'm trying to help out a friend, but appear to be striking out.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Link to image is below. I have a copy of the page if the link to Actapublica doesn't work.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > http://actapublica.eu/matriky/plzen/prohlizec/6075/?strana=1
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The reference I'm looking at is on page 20/382 on the right hand side of the image. Under the heading of "Otec," the word is after the person's name on the first record.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The word appears to be "cvokar," which Google translates as "shrink." What exactly does this term mean? It appears on many records on this page, always preceeding "v Myto."
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Can someone help me with this? I tried my best to use other sources before posting, but am coming up blank.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Thanks in advance,
                  > > > > Michele
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Ben Yahoo
                  JULS often supplies all that. Sent from my iPhone ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jan 18, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    JULS often supplies all that.

                    Sent from my iPhone

                    On Jan 17, 2013, at 11:53 PM, "CurtB" <curt67boc@...> wrote:

                    > Ben,
                    > Well, maybe, but there is nothing quite like the big etymological dictionaries with origins, historical examples, etc. and nothing quite as good has having a great country encyclopedia next to it as well as historical atlases. Pursuing these is how we learn more than just a new word.
                    >
                    > Curt B.
                    >
                    > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Curt,
                    > >
                    > > You don't need the big dictionaries if you speak Slovak (and/or Czech). http://slovnik.juls.savba.sk will do you just fine for many of these words- but again, you need also reading knowledge of Slovak--and/or German/Hungarian/Latin depending on the time period. This is the codified site, but you can reach the uncodified as well from the same page.
                    > >
                    > > However, it is always good to have a professor also back up any findings we may say we have.
                    > >
                    > > Ben
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ________________________________
                    > > From: CurtB
                    > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 12:40 PM
                    > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Translation Help for word on a marriage record
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Michele et al.
                    > > I dropped into the university library to consult the big dictionaries today and talked to the professor of Czech. Cvokar~ ,I was assured, in this case does refer to nail making and it can mean one who produces them or deals, trades, or sells them. It refers to any type of nail; construction nails,shoe nails, etc. The conslusion was that this the village must have been a center of metal forging for so many people in the register to have been involved with this activity.
                    > >
                    > > Curt B.
                    > >
                    > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > This one will be interesting, as cvokar today is a shrink or psychiatrist-- which leads me to two conclusions: either Myto was the research hub of psychological health at the time, or we have to find the older meaning of this word. Actually, so many were cvokari (or klincar) because, originally, this was a faber clavarius, or nail maker. It looks like there was much to be built at that time, and work traditions being what they were, many people picked up the trade. SO, cvokar = nail maker.
                    > > >
                    > > Help for word on a marriage record
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Â
                    > > > The one hope I can suggest is to ask the question on the Delphi Forum "Genealogy - Czech and Slovak Republic". There are a few very active people there who seem to be quite competent in language and Czech history/meaning. http://www.delphiforums.com/
                    > > >
                    > > > Ron
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Michele,
                    > > > > Well, I guess we have been wrong and unhelpful so far. I looked over the register you listed for the village of Myto in the 1880's. The cvokar is neither dead nor a psychiatrist, (or a shrink, ha ha). These are very contemporary slang, meanings or derivations of the word.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > It is clear from the registers that cvokar, rolnik, statkar, kovar, sladovnik, etc. which are used repeatedly throughout, refer to status of the individual and type of ownership of homes, land, etc.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Unfortunately the small hand dictionaries (or worse, online dictionaries)that we use are not adequate for this nineteenth century usage. I guess you need to consult the grand Czech historical dictionary in a university library, or post this query to a Czech language, history, or genealogy group.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > About one third of the people listed in the register seem to be cvokari in the village of Myto.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Curt B.
                    > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "mishyk" wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I'm trying to help out a friend, but appear to be striking out.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Link to image is below. I have a copy of the page if the link to Actapublica doesn't work.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > http://actapublica.eu/matriky/plzen/prohlizec/6075/?strana=1
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > The reference I'm looking at is on page 20/382 on the right hand side of the image. Under the heading of "Otec," the word is after the person's name on the first record.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > The word appears to be "cvokar," which Google translates as "shrink." What exactly does this term mean? It appears on many records on this page, always preceeding "v Myto."
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Can someone help me with this? I tried my best to use other sources before posting, but am coming up blank.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Thanks in advance,
                    > > > > > Michele
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Ben Yahoo
                    Then again, it used to. :-p now it seems they have gutted some of the best material. Sent from my iPhone ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jan 18, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Then again, it used to. :-p now it seems they have gutted some of the best material.

                      Sent from my iPhone

                      On Jan 17, 2013, at 11:53 PM, "CurtB" <curt67boc@...> wrote:

                      > Ben,
                      > Well, maybe, but there is nothing quite like the big etymological dictionaries with origins, historical examples, etc. and nothing quite as good has having a great country encyclopedia next to it as well as historical atlases. Pursuing these is how we learn more than just a new word.
                      >
                      > Curt B.
                      >
                      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Curt,
                      > >
                      > > You don't need the big dictionaries if you speak Slovak (and/or Czech). http://slovnik.juls.savba.sk will do you just fine for many of these words- but again, you need also reading knowledge of Slovak--and/or German/Hungarian/Latin depending on the time period. This is the codified site, but you can reach the uncodified as well from the same page.
                      > >
                      > > However, it is always good to have a professor also back up any findings we may say we have.
                      > >
                      > > Ben
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ________________________________
                      > > From: CurtB
                      > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 12:40 PM
                      > > Subject: [S-R] Re: Translation Help for word on a marriage record
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Michele et al.
                      > > I dropped into the university library to consult the big dictionaries today and talked to the professor of Czech. Cvokar~ ,I was assured, in this case does refer to nail making and it can mean one who produces them or deals, trades, or sells them. It refers to any type of nail; construction nails,shoe nails, etc. The conslusion was that this the village must have been a center of metal forging for so many people in the register to have been involved with this activity.
                      > >
                      > > Curt B.
                      > >
                      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > This one will be interesting, as cvokar today is a shrink or psychiatrist-- which leads me to two conclusions: either Myto was the research hub of psychological health at the time, or we have to find the older meaning of this word. Actually, so many were cvokari (or klincar) because, originally, this was a faber clavarius, or nail maker. It looks like there was much to be built at that time, and work traditions being what they were, many people picked up the trade. SO, cvokar = nail maker.
                      > > >
                      > > Help for word on a marriage record
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Â
                      > > > The one hope I can suggest is to ask the question on the Delphi Forum "Genealogy - Czech and Slovak Republic". There are a few very active people there who seem to be quite competent in language and Czech history/meaning. http://www.delphiforums.com/
                      > > >
                      > > > Ron
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Michele,
                      > > > > Well, I guess we have been wrong and unhelpful so far. I looked over the register you listed for the village of Myto in the 1880's. The cvokar is neither dead nor a psychiatrist, (or a shrink, ha ha). These are very contemporary slang, meanings or derivations of the word.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > It is clear from the registers that cvokar, rolnik, statkar, kovar, sladovnik, etc. which are used repeatedly throughout, refer to status of the individual and type of ownership of homes, land, etc.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Unfortunately the small hand dictionaries (or worse, online dictionaries)that we use are not adequate for this nineteenth century usage. I guess you need to consult the grand Czech historical dictionary in a university library, or post this query to a Czech language, history, or genealogy group.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > About one third of the people listed in the register seem to be cvokari in the village of Myto.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Curt B.
                      > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "mishyk" wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I'm trying to help out a friend, but appear to be striking out.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Link to image is below. I have a copy of the page if the link to Actapublica doesn't work.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > http://actapublica.eu/matriky/plzen/prohlizec/6075/?strana=1
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > The reference I'm looking at is on page 20/382 on the right hand side of the image. Under the heading of "Otec," the word is after the person's name on the first record.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > The word appears to be "cvokar," which Google translates as "shrink." What exactly does this term mean? It appears on many records on this page, always preceeding "v Myto."
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Can someone help me with this? I tried my best to use other sources before posting, but am coming up blank.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Thanks in advance,
                      > > > > > Michele
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Armata, Joseph R
                      It wasn t all that unusual for a village or group of villages to specialize in some craft, not just in Slovakia but in other neighboring areas too. Sometimes
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jan 18, 2013
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                        It wasn't all that unusual for a village or group of villages to specialize in some craft, not just in Slovakia but in other neighboring areas too. Sometimes the craft might be very specialized. A village or area might be well known for making flour sifting bags for mills, cane reeds for looms, certain types of furniture, etc. Apparently this village specialized in nails.

                        Joe


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CurtB
                        Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 12:41 PM
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [S-R] Re: Translation Help for word on a marriage record



                        Michele et al.
                        I dropped into the university library to consult the big dictionaries today and talked to the professor of Czech. Cvokar~ ,I was assured, in this case does refer to nail making and it can mean one who produces them or deals, trades, or sells them. It refers to any type of nail; construction nails,shoe nails, etc. The conslusion was that this the village must have been a center of metal forging for so many people in the register to have been involved with this activity.

                        Curt B.

                        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> , Ben Sorensen wrote:
                        >
                        > This one will be interesting, as cvokar today is a shrink or psychiatrist-- which leads me to two conclusions: either Myto was the research hub of psychological health at the time, or we have to find the older meaning of this word. Actually, so many were cvokari (or klincar) because, originally, this was a faber clavarius, or nail maker. It looks like there was much to be built at that time, and work traditions being what they were, many people picked up the trade. SO, cvokar = nail maker.
                        >
                        Help for word on a marriage record
                        >
                        >
                        > Â
                        > The one hope I can suggest is to ask the question on the Delphi Forum "Genealogy - Czech and Slovak Republic". There are a few very active people there who seem to be quite competent in language and Czech history/meaning. http://www.delphiforums.com/
                        >
                        > Ron
                        >
                        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> , "CurtB" wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Michele,
                        > > Well, I guess we have been wrong and unhelpful so far. I looked over the register you listed for the village of Myto in the 1880's. The cvokar is neither dead nor a psychiatrist, (or a shrink, ha ha). These are very contemporary slang, meanings or derivations of the word.
                        > >
                        > > It is clear from the registers that cvokar, rolnik, statkar, kovar, sladovnik, etc. which are used repeatedly throughout, refer to status of the individual and type of ownership of homes, land, etc.
                        > >
                        > > Unfortunately the small hand dictionaries (or worse, online dictionaries)that we use are not adequate for this nineteenth century usage. I guess you need to consult the grand Czech historical dictionary in a university library, or post this query to a Czech language, history, or genealogy group.
                        > >
                        > > About one third of the people listed in the register seem to be cvokari in the village of Myto.
                        > >
                        > > Curt B.
                        > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> , "mishyk" wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > I'm trying to help out a friend, but appear to be striking out.
                        > > >
                        > > > Link to image is below. I have a copy of the page if the link to Actapublica doesn't work.
                        > > >
                        > > > http://actapublica.eu/matriky/plzen/prohlizec/6075/?strana=1
                        > > >
                        > > > The reference I'm looking at is on page 20/382 on the right hand side of the image. Under the heading of "Otec," the word is after the person's name on the first record.
                        > > >
                        > > > The word appears to be "cvokar," which Google translates as "shrink." What exactly does this term mean? It appears on many records on this page, always preceeding "v Myto."
                        > > >
                        > > > Can someone help me with this? I tried my best to use other sources before posting, but am coming up blank.
                        > > >
                        > > > Thanks in advance,
                        > > > Michele
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
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