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Re: Translation Help - Maria Janossy

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  • William
    Curt, Sorry about the poor data. Lesson learned. Reference your question - it is not sequential. 1809 Marriage Record uses Maria Janossy 1810 Baptism record
    Message 1 of 72 , Dec 15, 2012
      Sorry about the poor data. Lesson learned. Reference your question - it is not sequential.
      1809 Marriage Record uses Maria Janossy
      1810 Baptism record for first child uses Janossy
      1812 Baptism record uses "Maria uxor ejus" (I am familiar with this one)
      1813 Baptism record uses Maria and what looks like "Kacmar"
      1816 Baptism record uses Maria "g.eselo Kacma" or something close to that.
      1818 Baptism record uses Maria Janossy
      1819, 1821, 1823, 1825 1827 all use either Janossy or Janosik. Janossy is the predominant spelling.
      1831 uses what looks like "Sz.axi Krcma." And that is the last entry.

      Based on the above sequence I have doubts about it being a former name but rather an abbreviation for something. If so, It should probably be latin. Perhaps we have beaten this one to death. Appreciate your insights just the same.

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@...> wrote:
      > Bill,
      > Well, getting that information from you was like pulling teeth. Now that we see them online we can see that the priest just thinks that the former name Krchma is the name that best describes her. Do the registers change at particular time from Janossy to Krcma?? Or do they go back and forth sequentially? If they change at a particular time it may be a new wife named Maria. If they go back and forth, it remains a mystery as to why the priest thinks that name best describes his wife.
      > Curt B.
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "William" <wsmorey@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Curt,
      > > Again, thanks for the reply. Apologize for not providing more complete information.
      > > Yes, Film 1791929 for Zehra is the one I'm referring to. It is listed as:
      > >
      > > Cirkevná matrika, 1646-1948 / Rímsko-katolícka cirkev. Farský úrad Žehra (Spišská Nová Ves). Items 6-7. Specifically it is a Baptism record for Anna on 17 December 1813. Parents are Mathias Czmorej and Maria (followed by the word I am trying to figure out)
      > > and place of baptism is Grancs.
      > >
      > > In the same film, 28 April 1816 there is another Baptism record for Helena to Mathias and wife Maria followed by the words causing me problems.
      > >
      > > The main translation issue however is on Film 1791915 which is listed as:
      > > Cirkevná matrika, 1646-1948 / Rímsko-katolícka cirkev. Farský úrad Žehra (Spišská Nová Ves)
      > > It is a baptism record for Susanna (deceased, as it has a cross above her name). The date is 4 September 1831.
      > >
      > > As to whether the films are on line or not - I just can't figure that out from using the LDS web site. I have searched back and forth quite a bit but no matter what I try, I cannot come up with those numbers listed under either Zehra or Spisska Nova Ves.
      > >
      > > Appreciate your patience and direction.
      > > R/Bill
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Bill,
      > > > The LDS catalog says that film 1791929 covering Zehra, etc. is online. Is this the film you reference?? If so, give us image citations. See the LDS catalog. But they also give the same number for a different film as well. Or are you referring to some other film? Just give us an actual COMPLETE film citation, rather than your interpretation and maybe someone can help. Is your film online or not?? THe answer is either yes, or no, or I don't know.
      > > >
      > > > Curt B.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "William" <wsmorey@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Many thanks to you and others for the comments. To answer - both samples are from the LDS Church Film record number 1791929 for Grancs-Petrovce in Spis. The film also covers Dubrava, Zehra, Beharovce and Olsavka. They are birth records for children of Mathias and Maria, one on April 28, 1816 and the other on Sept 4, 1831. Including the marriage record in Sep/Oct 1809 there are 12 records in all. There are actually 3 entries each with a variation:
      > > > > 17 Dec 1813 - after Maria it looks like "Kacmar"
      > > > > 21 April 1816 - after Maria it looks like "glesebo Kac(s)ma"
      > > > > 4 Sept 1831 - after Maria: "Sz.axi Krcma"
      > > > > Except for those entries her last name of Janossy is used consistently and is quite clear. Other entries, as noted, have religion and status such as Roman Catholic and Pleb. I am familiar with those.
      > > > > Using my Mac I scanned and copied those two entries but perhaps there is a better way. I'll work on it.
      > > > > Also, all 12 records seem to be written by a different hand and I have looked through all of them for similar entries and do not see them.
      > > > > Bill
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "CurtB" <curt67boc@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Bill,
      > > > > > The writing UNDER the name is an abbreviation of her religion and status in the first instance. That is, Roman Catholic and Pleb. or commoner and not nobility.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > In you second example it just gives the religion, abbreviated - Roman Catholic.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > It seems pretty clear that the writer thinks she has an alias or second name of Krcma. Or at least he is supplying it to prevent confusion with some other person. While many names have distant meanings that come from professions, places, etc., there is no reason to believe that the refers to a profession.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > When asking your kind of question it would be helpful if you told us beforehand what kind of register this is; baptismal?? and the year and place. If the text is online, by all means give the citation so others can read a full text and examine handwriting and column headings etc. By not supplying this information you make answering much more difficult.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Curt B.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Curt B.-
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "William" <wsmorey@> wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > I just uploaded two files labeled Maria Czmorej Scan 2 and Scan 3. I have struggled with interpreting the writing under her name for some time to no avail. I have the marriage record and other church records which show her maiden name as Janossy. In both files it looks like the second word is something like "krcma" but the first word is different in each file. Any help appreciated. Bill
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
    • Sz Erika
      It was written only father s name or wife s name husband s name ,single or orphan near dead person and never mother name in these pages. Near two father s name
      Message 72 of 72 , Jun 3 1:35 PM
            It was written only father s name or wife s name husband s name ,single or orphan near dead person and never mother name in these pages. Near two father s name were written son in law.I think it was needed to show exactly who is he by his father in law or if he was dead by mother in law.Maybe      not only one man had that name at that time in that village so needed more information about him.

        A Windows Phone-telefonomról küldtem

        Feladó: Sandra & John Panzitta pman40@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS]
        Feladva: ‎2016.‎06.‎02. 22:44
        Címzett: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Tárgy: Re: [S-R] Translation Help

        It actually make more sense as Gyorgy Vertila was dead when the record was created.  Why the priest referred to the mother of the child (Mihaly) by her mother (Mrs. Vertila)… well, I don’t know.

        On Jun 2, 2016, at 12:38 PM, Sz Erika szerika60@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

        Interesting information. But there is a "né" end of Vertilané. In hungarian this means father is son in law of Mrs Vertila. 
        ...né = Mrs ....

        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 08:36:00 -0400
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Translation Help

        I wonder if it refers to Ilya’s step father - Gyorg Vertila.  

        I always appreciate your thoughts Erika!  
        Thanks again, 
        On Jun 2, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Sz Erika szerika60@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

        I don t know. Veje is son in law.There is another veje on the left 3rd "Zelenak veje" and Zelenak is a name. vertilane was a name or something else.

        A Windows Phone-telefonomról küldtem

        Feladó: Sandra & John Panzitta pman40@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS]
        Feladva: ‎2016.‎06.‎01. 18:01
        Címzett: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Tárgy: Re: [S-R] Translation Help

        Thanks for the insight Erika.  Now the question is what is a vertilane?  Her father’s name was Mihaly Zsdry.  

        On Jun 1, 2016, at 2:53 AM, Sz Erika szerika60@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS] <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


        It s vertilané as I think, but neje isn t neje, it is sure the world is " veje", so meaning : father is husband of vertilané s daughter

        Erika Szabó
        A Windows Phone-telefonomról küldtem

        Feladó: pman40@... [SLOVAK-ROOTS]
        Feladva: ‎2016.‎05.‎31. 21:49
        Címzett: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Tárgy: [S-R] Translation Help

        Hello All,

        I am having trouble deciphering two records.  The first is found at  https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9R7W-9S8W?mode=g&i=79&cc=1554443&cat=755030

        This is the baptism of ANNA, daughter of BASIL HRITZENKO and ILYA ZSDIJOVA - the third entry from the bottom on the right side, the date isn't visible.  The note by her name is cum ore ??? nata.  I believe it refers to her mouth.

        The other is the death of Anna's brother, MIHALY HRITZENKO, again, the date is obscured, but it is the fourth entry from the bottom of the right side of the page. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RQ1-49M?mode=g&i=259&cat=755030

        What is the written under his father's name, next to neje?  It looks like vertilane or verrilane?   

        Thanks much for your time!



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