Re: [S-R] ordained ministers and their genealogy
From: htcstech <htcstech@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2012 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [S-R] ordained ministers and their genealogy
Well I can safely state that the Ozman (Ottoman) advance, Rakozi, Thokoly
and Thurzo, all promoted Evangelical over Catholic. The Ottomans were
anti-Catholic and strongly promoted Lutheranism. The effect of this was
that churches once Catholic - turned Lutheran overnight, then back to
Catholic, also overnight in Hapsburg controlled areas.
I too am looking for Lutheran records, particularly of the Galanta district
which reverted back to Catholicism. I do have Balskovics Jozsef's "Az
Ujvari Ejalet Torok Adoosszeirasai" - Pozsony 1993 Erdem ('The Ujvari
Eyalet Turkish Tax Collections' ~ Hungarian only) which looks at the
Ottoman defters for Ersekujvar and (partially) Estergom vyalets, detailing
names and places throughout the region. The issue he found was that the
Ottomans transcribed names into Arabic script phonetically and so not
directly translatable back to Magyar. Consequently he spent a decade or so
sounding out names from the defters in Arabic and tried to find Magyar and
Slav cognomens. He assembled around 20,000 names with cognomen locations of
This is also complicated by the fact that when the tax collectors came,
many hid in forests to avoid the defters, so we are not talking about 100%
Genealogically, the records mentions relationships - eg father to son,
brother etc, but as the tax collectors had little idea of the naming
conventions, a lot of confusion arose as they confused work names, places
and vezetek names (surnames). Many of these names stuck. The nobility and
possibly some clergy evacuated into safehaven Hapsberg controlled towns.
Another aspect to consider is that none of this is on a database of any
Very few academic studies have been made using defters as a historic
resource. Contact Gabor Agoston for further information on this (Georgetown
University - I'll forward his email if you are interested).
So prior to the mid 1700's many church records were 'lost' - but I am
hopeful that they are around somewhere, maybe in Lutheran archives. I am
furious that records after the Turks were thrown out, between 1700 and 1770
have also 'disappeared'. Why?
On 5 December 2012 07:33, leporis1 <leporis1@...> wrote:
> Pan Mojher,
> Thx! Any chance you might know where to chase this 'described document'
> down. State Archives?
> ....v. KÑ†nig Leopold I., i. J. 1710 einen Adels- u. Wappenbrief (im
> Vereine mit dem Geschlechte Leporisz), welcher 1711 im Trentschiner Ctte
> publicirt wurde.
> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
> > http://www.ecav.sk/?p=uvitanie This is the website of the Evangelical
> Church in Slovakia. They have an English site, but very little is there
> since it seems to be under construction. I would think that you should be
> able to contact them about where the pastors were located.
> > http://www.evangelikus.hu/nyitolap?set_language=en&cl=en Here is the
> website for the Evangelical Church in Hungary.
> > From: leporis1
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 10:39 AM
> > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [S-R] ordained ministers and their geneology
> > I have put a file up in 'Leporis' files that at the top of the list is
> "#5 Andreas_Leporis". I see that on #34 is a Vietoris also. The Vietoris is
> well known to me as a family alliance with the Leporis from apparently 1611
> (during reformation) through at least the late 1700's. (see Joseph Drenko /
> Kunova Teplica..), also partially uploaded in my file list. Here is the
> question! How in the world am I going to track all the Evangelical
> (Lutheran) pastors in my family from Liptov to Kunova Templica? Does the
> Hungarian Reformed Church hold such records? My main partner in this quest
> is actually a Vietoris descendant whose gggrandpa was god son to Leporis
> (Advocate) in Kosice. What can I say, Lutheran pastors moved a lot
> obviously. Also I invite you all to look for your family's names and
> possible ancestors (probably would be Lutheran) in these very old documents
> I managed to score for our viewing pleasure. In following historical
> documents I have come to some fantastic realizations in my own ancestry
> which make for an interesting story of some sort.. In any case I seem to be
> so close yet so far in joining the dots as my family was very duplicitous
> in their religious believes ie: communion in both kinds etc. (topic for SK
> world probably). The transition of religion from Catholic to Lutheran is
> probably the most interesting story yet considering the players involved.
> What's confusing me even more is Gasper Leporis(Ucitel/teacher)and his
> brother(s) moving to Vojvodina (NW of Novi Sad, old Jugoslavia). Linking
> him to Revuca was simple enough but still searching concrete data. As Curt
> and I have discussed before Revuca Evangelical church data was mostly
> destroyed by fire. However, enough was retained for Joseph Drenko to
> mention my ancestors there. So what do I do? Too long of post? I know
> exactly where this is all leading for the family as Siebacher's and the
> Hungarians have left solid clues for me in their armorial records however I
> still have too many gaps to present in essay what I've found. I'd
> appreciate any feed back no matter what.
> > LLeporis
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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