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Re: [S-R] New Member

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  • Ron
    I believe you express the situation quite well, John. I was trying to express the same when I stated try to keep it as close to genealogical as possible.
    Message 1 of 81 , Dec 5, 2012
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      I believe you express the situation quite well, John. I was trying to express the same when I stated "try to keep it as close to genealogical as possible." That is far more liberal than Maura, founder of this group, practiced. I very much agree with you.

      Ron

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, hwedhlor <Hwedhlor@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Ron,
      >
      > I have made no serious effort to research any sources on the
      > expulsions, primarily because I have not found that it
      > impacts my Slovak Severnyak/Severnak ancestry. My concern in
      > writing was that there might be a movement to ban discussion
      > of the expulsions from this mailing list based on
      > controversy over their rightness, wrongness, correctness,
      > etc. It is my very strong opinion that any researcher
      > seeking records of persons who were, or may have been,
      > impacted by events such as the expulsions owes it to
      > themselves to become familiar with the history of such
      > events, and with the locations and nature of records
      > detailing them. I appreciate your suggestions concerning
      > German record sources. I would not exclude all discussion of
      > politics from this forum however. While this forum is
      > definitely not an appropriate place for arguing the
      > aforesaid rightness or wrongness of the expulsions, I think
      > that some basic understanding of the various motivations, or
      > possible motivations, and points of view held by those
      > expelled versus those doing the expelling, is appropriate in
      > that such understanding can give the researcher insight as
      > to why certain records might include/exclude information the
      > researcher is seeking. The challenge for those of us
      > exchanging information on this forum is to maintain
      > objectivity while discussing events that were often
      > devastating or fatal to those experiencing them, and which
      > often fostered very strong familial and cultural prejudices.
      >
      > John Zimmerman
      > Mesa, AZ
      >
      >
      > On 12/5/2012 1:10 AM, Ron wrote:
      > >
      > > John & Peter,
      > >
      > > Neither of you has given a hint as to whether or not you
      > > have researced the German sources for information or not.
      > > If not I would certainly suggest googling for documents
      > > they have assembled and published. Quite a few of their
      > > websites are in German, but some have English language
      > > mirrors.The expellees (vertriebenen) are dominated by the
      > > Sudeten, but there are sections for the Zipser and
      > > Hauerlander and Pressburger sections, as well as Bukovina
      > > and other small areas.
      > >
      > > I ave seen some maps published on villages enumerating
      > > each house and identifying the former owner. Over the
      > > decades they have published many books, tomes and white
      > > papers on the experiences from the suffering to the
      > > individual village stories. I have no need for the detail
      > > myself, so I have not investigated it in depth.
      > >
      > > For anyone not familiar with this, I again suggest Google
      > > and key words vertiebene, also preceeded by zipser ,
      > > hauerland / hauer, and perhaps slowakei or ungarn. Also
      > > Bund der Vertriebenen, Vertreibung, Verband der
      > > Landsmannschaften, Bund der Vertriebenen. In Germany there
      > > is also the Center against Expulsion, Bund der
      > > Vertriebenen that may have information or be able to guide
      > > you on new sources. Look on their pages for a British flag
      > > or clickable (english) version. Much of their materiál is
      > > for sale.
      > >
      > > They have been meeting in Nurenberg on Easter Monday since
      > > the early 1950's, and there should be an exhausting supply
      > > of documents there. The Vertriebenen have been a notable
      > > political power in West German politics and have carried
      > > their share of internal German controversy over the years.
      > >
      > > I am glad to see the two of you agree with me that
      > > genealogy belongs on this forum and politics elsewhere.
      > > When you find good sources of information, of course, do
      > > share.
      > >
      > > As for assimilation, in my own family I would like to
      > > determine if the southern (Lozin) side were Rusyn and
      > > assimilated since the 1800/1806 census. But that is my
      > > homework.
      > >
      > > > > Ron said "try to keep it as close to genealogical as
      > > possible. There are many controversial stories to be
      > > learned above, and this is NOT the forum to hash these out!"
      > >
      > > Have you researched any of the resources I outlined above?
      > >
      > > Ron
      > >
      > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>, John Zimmerman
      > > <Hwedhlor@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Peter,
      > > >
      > > > Well said! Any events that caused people to change their
      > > economic, political or religious status, change their
      > > place of residence, or that resulted in their imprisonment
      > > or death are very significant from a genealogical point of
      > > view. Additionally the reasons for such events often
      > > impact what records we seek and where we seek them, and
      > > are therefore also of genealogical importance. Ignoring
      > > such events and their causes only handicaps our research,
      > > and discussions about them definitely belong in this forum!
      > > >
      > > > John Zimmerman
      > > > Mesa, AZ
      > > >
      > > > Sent from my iPhone 5
      > > >
      > > > On Dec 4, 2012, at 7:52 PM, htcstech <htcstech@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > Ron said "try to keep it as close to genealogical as
      > > possible. There are
      > > > > many controversial stories to be learned above, and
      > > this is NOT the forum
      > > > > to hash these out!"
      > > > >
      > > > > This IS a genealogic forum and the Benes Decree is
      > > vital! It may be a taboo
      > > > > subject here, but it's importance for later
      > > genealogical work is very
      > > > > significant. We tend not to discuss this and almost
      > > ignoring those
      > > > > of Slovak/Rusyn/Bohemian/Moravian/German/Ukrainian and
      > > Galacian ancestry
      > > > > (hundreds of thousands) who are now fully assimilated
      > > in Hungarian ethnic
      > > > > towns and villages along the southern strip. Millions
      > > of people were
      > > > > displaced throughout the whole of Czechoslovakia
      > > because of the Benes
      > > > > decree.
      > > > >
      > > > > 2011 - the darker the green the more 'ethnic' Hungarians:
      > > > >
      > > http://www.foruminst.sk/images/album/129/2-392-33729-129-orig.jpg
      > > That is a
      > > > > significant slab of Slovakia where the ethnic border
      > > does not match the
      > > > > political one. A map of German displacement would be
      > > extremely valuable.
      > > > >
      > > > > I understand fully that political discussions are
      > > verboten, but sooner or
      > > > > later those Benes Decree lists will become (some are
      > > already) public
      > > > > domain. The ones I've seen show which families were
      > > forced to move.
      > > > > Documentary evidence is being collected as we speak
      > > showing adoption of
      > > > > Czechoslovak citizenship, travelling papers,
      > > resettlement addresses and
      > > > > other vital information. Being 2012, the parents of
      > > those who were evicted
      > > > > are passing on, so this knowledge becomes vital. Even
      > > some Slovaks were
      > > > > deported!
      > > > > Here's a memorial plaque of those families that were
      > > displaced by the Benes
      > > > > Decree:
      > > > >
      > > http://www.foruminst.sk/en/66/visual_bilingualism/0/research_on_usage_of_hungarian_language_in_southern_slovakia/1/5210/deportees_memorial_plaque
      > > > > (note that previous 'face on' images of this were
      > > removed by the website to
      > > > > protect the identities of those listed)
      > > > >
      > > > > And it's not just Slovakia, but significant Hungarian,
      > > Serbian and Romanian
      > > > > displacements as well, all authorized and carried out
      > > by their respective
      > > > > post WW2 governments.
      > > > > In fact it is impossible to do later - post WW1 and
      > > WW2 genealogical work
      > > > > without mentioning (non-jewish) genocide, atrocities
      > > and other forms of
      > > > > cleansing in some of these places. Millions were
      > > displaced or killed
      > > > > including ethnic Slovaks and Rusyns - and as further
      > > academic research
      > > > > continues past the 50 year moratorium, more of this
      > > will come to light.
      > > > >
      > > > > I agree that we should concentrate on genealogy, but
      > > referral to the above
      > > > > events should not be dismissed out of hand as a cause
      > > for death and
      > > > > displacement.
      > > > >
      > > > > Peter M.
      > > > >
      > > > > On 5 December 2012 10:49, Ron <amiak27@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > > try to keep it as close to genealogical as possible.
      > > There are many
      > > > > > controversial stories to be learned above, and this
      > > is NOT the forum to
      > > > > > hash these out!
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • John
      ... Acquiring new memberships at Slovak World is seemingly impossible. Greg Kopchak is not responding.
      Message 81 of 81 , Dec 8, 2012
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        >>> Anyone who wishes to explore THAT topic should do so on Slovak World, please! <<<

        Acquiring new memberships at Slovak World is seemingly impossible. Greg Kopchak is not responding.
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