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ordained ministers and their geneology

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  • leporis1
    I have put a file up in Leporis files that at the top of the list is #5 Andreas_Leporis . I see that on #34 is a Vietoris also. The Vietoris is well known
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 4, 2012
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      I have put a file up in 'Leporis' files that at the top of the list is "#5 Andreas_Leporis". I see that on #34 is a Vietoris also. The Vietoris is well known to me as a family alliance with the Leporis from apparently 1611 (during reformation) through at least the late 1700's. (see Joseph Drenko / Kunova Teplica..), also partially uploaded in my file list. Here is the question! How in the world am I going to track all the Evangelical (Lutheran) pastors in my family from Liptov to Kunova Templica? Does the Hungarian Reformed Church hold such records? My main partner in this quest is actually a Vietoris descendant whose gggrandpa was god son to Leporis (Advocate) in Kosice. What can I say, Lutheran pastors moved a lot obviously. Also I invite you all to look for your family's names and possible ancestors (probably would be Lutheran) in these very old documents I managed to score for our viewing pleasure. In following historical documents I have come to some fantastic realizations in my own ancestry which make for an interesting story of some sort.. In any case I seem to be so close yet so far in joining the dots as my family was very duplicitous in their religious believes ie: communion in both kinds etc. (topic for SK world probably). The transition of religion from Catholic to Lutheran is probably the most interesting story yet considering the players involved. What's confusing me even more is Gasper Leporis(Ucitel/teacher)and his brother(s) moving to Vojvodina (NW of Novi Sad, old Jugoslavia). Linking him to Revuca was simple enough but still searching concrete data. As Curt and I have discussed before Revuca Evangelical church data was mostly destroyed by fire. However, enough was retained for Joseph Drenko to mention my ancestors there. So what do I do? Too long of post? I know exactly where this is all leading for the family as Siebacher's and the Hungarians have left solid clues for me in their armorial records however I still have too many gaps to present in essay what I've found. I'd appreciate any feed back no matter what.

      LLeporis
    • MGMojher
      http://www.ecav.sk/?p=uvitanie This is the website of the Evangelical Church in Slovakia. They have an English site, but very little is there since it seems to
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 4, 2012
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        http://www.ecav.sk/?p=uvitanie This is the website of the Evangelical Church in Slovakia. They have an English site, but very little is there since it seems to be under construction. I would think that you should be able to contact them about where the pastors were located.
        http://www.evangelikus.hu/nyitolap?set_language=en&cl=en Here is the website for the Evangelical Church in Hungary.

        From: leporis1
        Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 10:39 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [S-R] ordained ministers and their geneology


        I have put a file up in 'Leporis' files that at the top of the list is "#5 Andreas_Leporis". I see that on #34 is a Vietoris also. The Vietoris is well known to me as a family alliance with the Leporis from apparently 1611 (during reformation) through at least the late 1700's. (see Joseph Drenko / Kunova Teplica..), also partially uploaded in my file list. Here is the question! How in the world am I going to track all the Evangelical (Lutheran) pastors in my family from Liptov to Kunova Templica? Does the Hungarian Reformed Church hold such records? My main partner in this quest is actually a Vietoris descendant whose gggrandpa was god son to Leporis (Advocate) in Kosice. What can I say, Lutheran pastors moved a lot obviously. Also I invite you all to look for your family's names and possible ancestors (probably would be Lutheran) in these very old documents I managed to score for our viewing pleasure. In following historical documents I have come to some fantastic realizations in my own ancestry which make for an interesting story of some sort.. In any case I seem to be so close yet so far in joining the dots as my family was very duplicitous in their religious believes ie: communion in both kinds etc. (topic for SK world probably). The transition of religion from Catholic to Lutheran is probably the most interesting story yet considering the players involved. What's confusing me even more is Gasper Leporis(Ucitel/teacher)and his brother(s) moving to Vojvodina (NW of Novi Sad, old Jugoslavia). Linking him to Revuca was simple enough but still searching concrete data. As Curt and I have discussed before Revuca Evangelical church data was mostly destroyed by fire. However, enough was retained for Joseph Drenko to mention my ancestors there. So what do I do? Too long of post? I know exactly where this is all leading for the family as Siebacher's and the Hungarians have left solid clues for me in their armorial records however I still have too many gaps to present in essay what I've found. I'd appreciate any feed back no matter what.

        LLeporis





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • leporis1
        Pan Mojher, Thx! Any chance you might know where to chase this described document down. State Archives? ....v. Kцnig Leopold I., i. J. 1710 einen Adels- u.
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 4, 2012
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          Pan Mojher,
          Thx! Any chance you might know where to chase this 'described document' down. State Archives?

          ....v. Kцnig Leopold I., i. J. 1710 einen Adels- u. Wappenbrief (im Vereine mit dem Geschlechte Leporisz), welcher 1711 im Trentschiner Ctte publicirt wurde.

          LLeporis


          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
          >
          > http://www.ecav.sk/?p=uvitanie This is the website of the Evangelical Church in Slovakia. They have an English site, but very little is there since it seems to be under construction. I would think that you should be able to contact them about where the pastors were located.
          > http://www.evangelikus.hu/nyitolap?set_language=en&cl=en Here is the website for the Evangelical Church in Hungary.
          >
          > From: leporis1
          > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 10:39 AM
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [S-R] ordained ministers and their geneology
          >
          >
          > I have put a file up in 'Leporis' files that at the top of the list is "#5 Andreas_Leporis". I see that on #34 is a Vietoris also. The Vietoris is well known to me as a family alliance with the Leporis from apparently 1611 (during reformation) through at least the late 1700's. (see Joseph Drenko / Kunova Teplica..), also partially uploaded in my file list. Here is the question! How in the world am I going to track all the Evangelical (Lutheran) pastors in my family from Liptov to Kunova Templica? Does the Hungarian Reformed Church hold such records? My main partner in this quest is actually a Vietoris descendant whose gggrandpa was god son to Leporis (Advocate) in Kosice. What can I say, Lutheran pastors moved a lot obviously. Also I invite you all to look for your family's names and possible ancestors (probably would be Lutheran) in these very old documents I managed to score for our viewing pleasure. In following historical documents I have come to some fantastic realizations in my own ancestry which make for an interesting story of some sort.. In any case I seem to be so close yet so far in joining the dots as my family was very duplicitous in their religious believes ie: communion in both kinds etc. (topic for SK world probably). The transition of religion from Catholic to Lutheran is probably the most interesting story yet considering the players involved. What's confusing me even more is Gasper Leporis(Ucitel/teacher)and his brother(s) moving to Vojvodina (NW of Novi Sad, old Jugoslavia). Linking him to Revuca was simple enough but still searching concrete data. As Curt and I have discussed before Revuca Evangelical church data was mostly destroyed by fire. However, enough was retained for Joseph Drenko to mention my ancestors there. So what do I do? Too long of post? I know exactly where this is all leading for the family as Siebacher's and the Hungarians have left solid clues for me in their armorial records however I still have too many gaps to present in essay what I've found. I'd appreciate any feed back no matter what.
          >
          > LLeporis
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • MGMojher
          v. CN † King Leopold I, in AD 1710 one-and nobility. crest letter (in union with the race Leporisz) also (in the clubs with the tribe of Leporisz), which in
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 4, 2012
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            v. CN † King Leopold I, in AD 1710 one-and nobility. crest letter (in union with the race Leporisz) also (in the clubs with the tribe of Leporisz), which in 1711 was Trentschiner ctte publicirt - is how Google Translate did your German notation.

            Trentschiner is Trencsén county (in Latin: comitatus Trentsiniensis/Trenchiniensis, in Hungarian Trencsén (vár) megye, in Slovak Trenčiansky komitát/ Trenčianska stolica/ Trenčianska župa, German: Trentschiner Gespanschaft/Komitat) is the name of a historic administrative county (comitatus) of the Kingdom of Hungary. Its territory is presently in western Slovakia.

            There is a state archive in Trencin, but it is pretty limited in its holdings. The Slovak National Archive in Bratislava would be a better one to try and see if they have the document you are looking for.

            There is a problem with the notation – King Leopold I died in 1705, so how he could be doing something in 1710 is interesting.
            From: leporis1
            Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 12:33 PM
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [S-R] ordained ministers and their genealogy


            Pan Mojher,
            Thx! Any chance you might know where to chase this 'described document' down. State Archives?

            ....v. Kцnig Leopold I., i. J. 1710 einen Adels- u. Wappenbrief (im Vereine mit dem Geschlechte Leporisz), welcher 1711 im Trentschiner Ctte publicirt wurde.

            LLeporis

            --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
            >
            > http://www.ecav.sk/?p=uvitanie This is the website of the Evangelical Church in Slovakia. They have an English site, but very little is there since it seems to be under construction. I would think that you should be able to contact them about where the pastors were located.
            > http://www.evangelikus.hu/nyitolap?set_language=en&cl=en Here is the website for the Evangelical Church in Hungary.
            >
            > From: leporis1
            > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 10:39 AM
            > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [S-R] ordained ministers and their geneology
            >
            >
            > I have put a file up in 'Leporis' files that at the top of the list is "#5 Andreas_Leporis". I see that on #34 is a Vietoris also. The Vietoris is well known to me as a family alliance with the Leporis from apparently 1611 (during reformation) through at least the late 1700's. (see Joseph Drenko / Kunova Teplica..), also partially uploaded in my file list. Here is the question! How in the world am I going to track all the Evangelical (Lutheran) pastors in my family from Liptov to Kunova Templica? Does the Hungarian Reformed Church hold such records? My main partner in this quest is actually a Vietoris descendant whose gggrandpa was god son to Leporis (Advocate) in Kosice. What can I say, Lutheran pastors moved a lot obviously. Also I invite you all to look for your family's names and possible ancestors (probably would be Lutheran) in these very old documents I managed to score for our viewing pleasure. In following historical documents I have come to some fantastic realizations in my own ancestry which make for an interesting story of some sort.. In any case I seem to be so close yet so far in joining the dots as my family was very duplicitous in their religious believes ie: communion in both kinds etc. (topic for SK world probably). The transition of religion from Catholic to Lutheran is probably the most interesting story yet considering the players involved. What's confusing me even more is Gasper Leporis(Ucitel/teacher)and his brother(s) moving to Vojvodina (NW of Novi Sad, old Jugoslavia). Linking him to Revuca was simple enough but still searching concrete data. As Curt and I have discussed before Revuca Evangelical church data was mostly destroyed by fire. However, enough was retained for Joseph Drenko to mention my ancestors there. So what do I do? Too long of post? I know exactly where this is all leading for the family as Siebacher's and the Hungarians have left solid clues for me in their armorial records however I still have too many gaps to present in essay what I've found. I'd appreciate any feed back no matter what.
            >
            > LLeporis
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • htcstech
            Well I can safely state that the Ozman (Ottoman) advance, Rakozi, Thokoly and Thurzo, all promoted Evangelical over Catholic. The Ottomans were anti-Catholic
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 4, 2012
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              Well I can safely state that the Ozman (Ottoman) advance, Rakozi, Thokoly
              and Thurzo, all promoted Evangelical over Catholic. The Ottomans were
              anti-Catholic and strongly promoted Lutheranism. The effect of this was
              that churches once Catholic - turned Lutheran overnight, then back to
              Catholic, also overnight in Hapsburg controlled areas.
              I too am looking for Lutheran records, particularly of the Galanta district
              which reverted back to Catholicism. I do have Balskovics Jozsef's "Az
              Ujvari Ejalet Torok Adoosszeirasai" - Pozsony 1993 Erdem ('The Ujvari
              Eyalet Turkish Tax Collections' ~ Hungarian only) which looks at the
              Ottoman defters for Ersekujvar and (partially) Estergom vyalets, detailing
              names and places throughout the region. The issue he found was that the
              Ottomans transcribed names into Arabic script phonetically and so not
              directly translatable back to Magyar. Consequently he spent a decade or so
              sounding out names from the defters in Arabic and tried to find Magyar and
              Slav cognomens. He assembled around 20,000 names with cognomen locations of
              the period.
              This is also complicated by the fact that when the tax collectors came,
              many hid in forests to avoid the defters, so we are not talking about 100%
              participation.
              Genealogically, the records mentions relationships - eg father to son,
              brother etc, but as the tax collectors had little idea of the naming
              conventions, a lot of confusion arose as they confused work names, places
              and vezetek names (surnames). Many of these names stuck. The nobility and
              possibly some clergy evacuated into safehaven Hapsberg controlled towns.
              Another aspect to consider is that none of this is on a database of any
              sort.
              Very few academic studies have been made using defters as a historic
              resource. Contact Gabor Agoston for further information on this (Georgetown
              University - I'll forward his email if you are interested).

              So prior to the mid 1700's many church records were 'lost' - but I am
              hopeful that they are around somewhere, maybe in Lutheran archives. I am
              furious that records after the Turks were thrown out, between 1700 and 1770
              have also 'disappeared'. Why?

              Peter M.


              On 5 December 2012 07:33, leporis1 <leporis1@...> wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > Pan Mojher,
              > Thx! Any chance you might know where to chase this 'described document'
              > down. State Archives?
              >
              > ....v. Kцnig Leopold I., i. J. 1710 einen Adels- u. Wappenbrief (im
              > Vereine mit dem Geschlechte Leporisz), welcher 1711 im Trentschiner Ctte
              > publicirt wurde.
              >
              > LLeporis
              >
              >
              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > http://www.ecav.sk/?p=uvitanie This is the website of the Evangelical
              > Church in Slovakia. They have an English site, but very little is there
              > since it seems to be under construction. I would think that you should be
              > able to contact them about where the pastors were located.
              > > http://www.evangelikus.hu/nyitolap?set_language=en&cl=en Here is the
              > website for the Evangelical Church in Hungary.
              > >
              > > From: leporis1
              > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 10:39 AM
              > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: [S-R] ordained ministers and their geneology
              > >
              > >
              > > I have put a file up in 'Leporis' files that at the top of the list is
              > "#5 Andreas_Leporis". I see that on #34 is a Vietoris also. The Vietoris is
              > well known to me as a family alliance with the Leporis from apparently 1611
              > (during reformation) through at least the late 1700's. (see Joseph Drenko /
              > Kunova Teplica..), also partially uploaded in my file list. Here is the
              > question! How in the world am I going to track all the Evangelical
              > (Lutheran) pastors in my family from Liptov to Kunova Templica? Does the
              > Hungarian Reformed Church hold such records? My main partner in this quest
              > is actually a Vietoris descendant whose gggrandpa was god son to Leporis
              > (Advocate) in Kosice. What can I say, Lutheran pastors moved a lot
              > obviously. Also I invite you all to look for your family's names and
              > possible ancestors (probably would be Lutheran) in these very old documents
              > I managed to score for our viewing pleasure. In following historical
              > documents I have come to some fantastic realizations in my own ancestry
              > which make for an interesting story of some sort.. In any case I seem to be
              > so close yet so far in joining the dots as my family was very duplicitous
              > in their religious believes ie: communion in both kinds etc. (topic for SK
              > world probably). The transition of religion from Catholic to Lutheran is
              > probably the most interesting story yet considering the players involved.
              > What's confusing me even more is Gasper Leporis(Ucitel/teacher)and his
              > brother(s) moving to Vojvodina (NW of Novi Sad, old Jugoslavia). Linking
              > him to Revuca was simple enough but still searching concrete data. As Curt
              > and I have discussed before Revuca Evangelical church data was mostly
              > destroyed by fire. However, enough was retained for Joseph Drenko to
              > mention my ancestors there. So what do I do? Too long of post? I know
              > exactly where this is all leading for the family as Siebacher's and the
              > Hungarians have left solid clues for me in their armorial records however I
              > still have too many gaps to present in essay what I've found. I'd
              > appreciate any feed back no matter what.
              > >
              > > LLeporis
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • William C. Wormuth
              http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slovaklutheranhistory.html ________________________________ From: htcstech To:
              Message 6 of 6 , Dec 7, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slovaklutheranhistory.html



                ________________________________
                From: htcstech <htcstech@...>
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2012 8:19 PM
                Subject: Re: [S-R] ordained ministers and their genealogy


                 
                Well I can safely state that the Ozman (Ottoman) advance, Rakozi, Thokoly
                and Thurzo, all promoted Evangelical over Catholic. The Ottomans were
                anti-Catholic and strongly promoted Lutheranism. The effect of this was
                that churches once Catholic - turned Lutheran overnight, then back to
                Catholic, also overnight in Hapsburg controlled areas.
                I too am looking for Lutheran records, particularly of the Galanta district
                which reverted back to Catholicism. I do have Balskovics Jozsef's "Az
                Ujvari Ejalet Torok Adoosszeirasai" - Pozsony 1993 Erdem ('The Ujvari
                Eyalet Turkish Tax Collections' ~ Hungarian only) which looks at the
                Ottoman defters for Ersekujvar and (partially) Estergom vyalets, detailing
                names and places throughout the region. The issue he found was that the
                Ottomans transcribed names into Arabic script phonetically and so not
                directly translatable back to Magyar. Consequently he spent a decade or so
                sounding out names from the defters in Arabic and tried to find Magyar and
                Slav cognomens. He assembled around 20,000 names with cognomen locations of
                the period.
                This is also complicated by the fact that when the tax collectors came,
                many hid in forests to avoid the defters, so we are not talking about 100%
                participation.
                Genealogically, the records mentions relationships - eg father to son,
                brother etc, but as the tax collectors had little idea of the naming
                conventions, a lot of confusion arose as they confused work names, places
                and vezetek names (surnames). Many of these names stuck. The nobility and
                possibly some clergy evacuated into safehaven Hapsberg controlled towns.
                Another aspect to consider is that none of this is on a database of any
                sort.
                Very few academic studies have been made using defters as a historic
                resource. Contact Gabor Agoston for further information on this (Georgetown
                University - I'll forward his email if you are interested).

                So prior to the mid 1700's many church records were 'lost' - but I am
                hopeful that they are around somewhere, maybe in Lutheran archives. I am
                furious that records after the Turks were thrown out, between 1700 and 1770
                have also 'disappeared'. Why?

                Peter M.

                On 5 December 2012 07:33, leporis1 <leporis1@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                > Pan Mojher,
                > Thx! Any chance you might know where to chase this 'described document'
                > down. State Archives?
                >
                > ....v. Kцnig Leopold I., i. J. 1710 einen Adels- u. Wappenbrief (im
                > Vereine mit dem Geschlechte Leporisz), welcher 1711 im Trentschiner Ctte
                > publicirt wurde.
                >
                > LLeporis
                >
                >
                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "MGMojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > http://www.ecav.sk/?p=uvitanie This is the website of the Evangelical
                > Church in Slovakia. They have an English site, but very little is there
                > since it seems to be under construction. I would think that you should be
                > able to contact them about where the pastors were located.
                > > http://www.evangelikus.hu/nyitolap?set_language=en&cl=en Here is the
                > website for the Evangelical Church in Hungary.
                > >
                > > From: leporis1
                > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 10:39 AM
                > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [S-R] ordained ministers and their geneology
                > >
                > >
                > > I have put a file up in 'Leporis' files that at the top of the list is
                > "#5 Andreas_Leporis". I see that on #34 is a Vietoris also. The Vietoris is
                > well known to me as a family alliance with the Leporis from apparently 1611
                > (during reformation) through at least the late 1700's. (see Joseph Drenko /
                > Kunova Teplica..), also partially uploaded in my file list. Here is the
                > question! How in the world am I going to track all the Evangelical
                > (Lutheran) pastors in my family from Liptov to Kunova Templica? Does the
                > Hungarian Reformed Church hold such records? My main partner in this quest
                > is actually a Vietoris descendant whose gggrandpa was god son to Leporis
                > (Advocate) in Kosice. What can I say, Lutheran pastors moved a lot
                > obviously. Also I invite you all to look for your family's names and
                > possible ancestors (probably would be Lutheran) in these very old documents
                > I managed to score for our viewing pleasure. In following historical
                > documents I have come to some fantastic realizations in my own ancestry
                > which make for an interesting story of some sort.. In any case I seem to be
                > so close yet so far in joining the dots as my family was very duplicitous
                > in their religious believes ie: communion in both kinds etc. (topic for SK
                > world probably). The transition of religion from Catholic to Lutheran is
                > probably the most interesting story yet considering the players involved.
                > What's confusing me even more is Gasper Leporis(Ucitel/teacher)and his
                > brother(s) moving to Vojvodina (NW of Novi Sad, old Jugoslavia). Linking
                > him to Revuca was simple enough but still searching concrete data. As Curt
                > and I have discussed before Revuca Evangelical church data was mostly
                > destroyed by fire. However, enough was retained for Joseph Drenko to
                > mention my ancestors there. So what do I do? Too long of post? I know
                > exactly where this is all leading for the family as Siebacher's and the
                > Hungarians have left solid clues for me in their armorial records however I
                > still have too many gaps to present in essay what I've found. I'd
                > appreciate any feed back no matter what.
                > >
                > > LLeporis
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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