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Re: Place of Birth on Ellis Island Manuscript MORAVKO

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  • John
    ... The 1910 map at http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/nyitra.jpg is devoid of the necessary detail, south of Szenicz in the yellow area. However, Korlatko
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 30, 2012
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      >>> So I'm coming to the conclusion that the place disappeared or absorbed and there is no surviving record of it. . . at the moment. I'll try and look up his wife, Maria in Joko which apparently is Nyitra RC . . . Place of Birth on Ellis Island Manuscript MORAVKO I'm getting Prietrž and Osuské, so I still can't pinpoint the location. . . I'm guessing that you are referring to Osuske, which is between Jablonica and Prietrz. <<<

      The 1910 map at http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/nyitra.jpg is devoid of the necessary detail, south of Szenicz in the yellow area. However, Korlatko is shown there. The current Podrobny Auto Atlas shows it as Cerova. Further south along the same road is Prievaly (current name).

      Thus area is very sparsely populated but the facts seem to fit.
    • htcstech
      WooHoo! I found him and place of birth! As Sandor MORAVKO appeared to disappear from records, I kept searching and found an Alexander MORAFKO born at the same
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 30, 2012
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        WooHoo! I found him and place of birth!

        As Sandor MORAVKO appeared to disappear from records, I kept searching and
        found an Alexander MORAFKO born at the same estimated year in the 1915
        census, confirmed in the 1925 census and then in the 1919 Declaration of
        Intention -Naturalization record - same height, eye colour etc as the ship
        manifest.
        Not only did he register for WW1 draft, but also WW2 as well.
        He had 3 girls, no sons and so the name died with him. His wife was 10
        years younger.

        One of my earlier guesses was Konstrvrta which looked peculiarly like
        Štvrtok or Thursday.
        He considered himself as a Slovak and when asked for his place of birth, he
        first said stvrtok, thought again and changed it to the Hungarian
        Csutortok, but the actual village was called Vagcsutortok at the time.
        So I bet it was overwritten because of this.
        Štvrtok is a small village (pop 350) between Nove Mesto Nad Vahom and
        Trencin along the main route. Nove Mesto Nad Vahom has had a concentration
        of Moravkos over the years.
        It's also a confirmation for me that the alteration of the V to an F is
        common (my last name is Marafko from an earlier line of Moravkos) and
        happened in Serbia, Slovakia and Hungary-Romania.

        Probably was worth the $35 monthly Ancestry charge.

        Peter M.


        On 1 December 2012 00:52, John <johnqadam@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > >>> So I'm coming to the conclusion that the place disappeared or absorbed
        > and there is no surviving record of it. . . at the moment. I'll try and
        > look up his wife, Maria in Joko which apparently is Nyitra RC . . . Place
        > of Birth on Ellis Island Manuscript MORAVKO I'm getting Prietrž and
        > Osuské, so I still can't pinpoint the location. . . I'm guessing that you
        > are referring to Osuske, which is between Jablonica and Prietrz. <<<
        >
        > The 1910 map at http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/nyitra.jpg is devoid
        > of the necessary detail, south of Szenicz in the yellow area. However,
        > Korlatko is shown there. The current Podrobny Auto Atlas shows it as
        > Cerova. Further south along the same road is Prievaly (current name).
        >
        > Thus area is very sparsely populated but the facts seem to fit.
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John
        CONGRATULATIONS! It s just great when you have a major breakthrough. The online RC church records for Stvrtok are found at:
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 1, 2012
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          CONGRATULATIONS! It's just great when you have a major breakthrough.

          The online RC church records for Stvrtok are found at:

          https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Frecords%2Fwaypoint%2FMM17-9M1%3An1105661400%3Fcc%3D1554443

          Slovakia, Church and Synagogue Books, 1592-1910Roman Catholic (Rímsko-katolícká cirkev)Nové Mesto nad Váhom Bosaca

          Baptisms (Krsty) 1691-1740 (Inv. č. 140)Baptisms (Krsty) 1740-1789 (Inv. č. 141)Baptisms (Krsty) 1790-1842 (Inv. č. 142)Baptisms (Krsty) 1852-1884 (Inv. č. 144)Baptisms (Krsty) 1885-1889 (Inv. č. 145)Baptisms (Krsty) 1889-1895 (Inv. č. 145 (pokrač.))Baptisms, marriages, deaths (Krsty, manželstvá, úmrtia) 1843-1851 (Inv. č. 143)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1788-1788 (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1800-1800 (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1829-1829 (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1841-1841 (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1855-1855 (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1860-1860 (Inv. č. 141)Converts (Konvertiti) 1759-1791 (Inv. č. 141)Converts (Konvertiti) 1792-1870 (Inv. č. 142)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1691-1718 (Inv. č. 140)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1722-1740 (Inv. č. 140)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1740-1769 (Inv. č. 141)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1768-1789 (Inv. č. 141 (pokrač.))Deaths (Úmrtia) 1790-1842 (Inv. č. 142)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1852-1879 (Inv. č. 147)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1880-1906 (Inv. č. 149)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1906-1910 (Inv. č. 149 (pokrač.))Marriages (Manželstvá) 1691-1740 (Inv. č. 140)Marriages (Manželstvá) 1740-1790 (Inv. č. 141)Marriages (Manželstvá) 1790-1842 (Inv. č. 146)Marriages (Manželstvá) 1852-1884 (Inv. č. 147)Marriages (Manželstvá) 1885-1896 (Inv. č. 148)
        • htcstech
          Thanks very much for the link Johnqadam! After pouring over the records for Stvrtok, I found nothing. Not giving up, I used the Familysearch database in all
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 1, 2012
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            Thanks very much for the link Johnqadam!
            After pouring over the records for Stvrtok, I found nothing.
            Not giving up, I used the Familysearch database in all different manners
            and ways and came up with (eventually) Sandor Moravek in a place called
            Plavecký Štvrtok.
            Turns out that even he did not remember his birthdate exactly. It was the
            18th of Dec 1876 instead of the 8th Dec 1877. The ship manifest was right.
            Also Plavecký Štvrtok was known as Detrekőcsütörtök which makes a huge
            amount of sense as it very closely resembles the handwritten place of birth
            in the ship's manifest in 1909 - Yet by 1919 when he applied for
            Naturalization, he shortened it to Csutortok and forgot his birthdate.
            Detrekőcsütörtök is very much closer to hometown as well.

            He was the illegitimate son of Carolina Moravek from Malaczka, Close to the
            Austrian border, along the way from Bratislava to Kuty. No wonder he spoke
            German.

            For me, the MORAVEK-MORAVKO-MORAFKO transformation answers certain
            questions that I asked of this group a while ago.
            Simply, MORAVEK appears to be the Czech (and possibly Slovak version) of
            the Moravko name. Somehow, his mother called herself or was named Moravek,
            yet he called himself Moravko. Why? Why not stay with the name Moravek???
            An answer to this could be that the family name was Moravko (possible from
            Moravke - a Hungarian diminuitive form for Moravia and the name of a
            tributary of the Morava river).

            I had hoped that there was no connection between Moravek and Moravko as far
            as genealogy is concerned. Now I am not so sure. It makes my work much
            harder.

            Peter M.


            On 1 December 2012 23:58, John <johnqadam@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > CONGRATULATIONS! It's just great when you have a major breakthrough.
            >
            > The online RC church records for Stvrtok are found at:
            >
            >
            > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Frecords%2Fwaypoint%2FMM17-9M1%3An1105661400%3Fcc%3D1554443
            >
            > Slovakia, Church and Synagogue Books, 1592-1910Roman Catholic
            > (Rímsko-katolícká cirkev)Nové Mesto nad Váhom Bosaca
            >
            > Baptisms (Krsty) 1691-1740 (Inv. č. 140)Baptisms (Krsty) 1740-1789
            > (Inv. č. 141)Baptisms (Krsty) 1790-1842 (Inv. č. 142)Baptisms
            > (Krsty) 1852-1884 (Inv. č. 144)Baptisms (Krsty) 1885-1889 (Inv.
            > č. 145)Baptisms (Krsty) 1889-1895 (Inv. č. 145
            > (pokrač.))Baptisms, marriages, deaths (Krsty, manželstvá, úmrtia)
            > 1843-1851 (Inv. č. 143)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1788-1788 (Inv.
            > č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1800-1800 (Inv. č.
            > 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1829-1829 (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations
            > (Birmovaní) 1841-1841 (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1855-1855
            > (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1860-1860 (Inv. č.
            > 141)Converts (Konvertiti) 1759-1791 (Inv. č. 141)Converts (Konvertiti)
            > 1792-1870 (Inv. č. 142)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1691-1718 (Inv. č.
            > 140)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1722-1740 (Inv. č. 140)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1740-1769
            > (Inv. č. 141)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1768-1789 (Inv. č. 141
            > (pokrač.))Deaths (Úmrtia) 1790-1842 (Inv. č. 142)Deaths (Úmrtia)
            > 1852-1879 (Inv. č. 147)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1880-1906 (Inv. č.
            > 149)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1906-1910 (Inv. č. 149 (pokrač.))Marriages
            > (Manželstvá) 1691-1740 (Inv. č. 140)Marriages (Manželstvá) 1740-1790
            > (Inv. č. 141)Marriages (Manželstvá) 1790-1842 (Inv. č.
            > 146)Marriages (Manželstvá) 1852-1884 (Inv. č. 147)Marriages
            > (Manželstvá) 1885-1896 (Inv. č. 148)
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • patskanovo
            Congradulations Peter! Dennis
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 2, 2012
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              Congradulations Peter!

              Dennis

              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:
              >
              > WooHoo! I found him and place of birth!
              >
              > As Sandor MORAVKO appeared to disappear from records, I kept searching and
              > found an Alexander MORAFKO born at the same estimated year in the 1915
              > census, confirmed in the 1925 census and then in the 1919 Declaration of
              > Intention -Naturalization record - same height, eye colour etc as the ship
              > manifest.
              > Not only did he register for WW1 draft, but also WW2 as well.
              > He had 3 girls, no sons and so the name died with him. His wife was 10
              > years younger.
              >
              > One of my earlier guesses was Konstrvrta which looked peculiarly like
              > Å tvrtok or Thursday.
              > He considered himself as a Slovak and when asked for his place of birth, he
              > first said stvrtok, thought again and changed it to the Hungarian
              > Csutortok, but the actual village was called Vagcsutortok at the time.
              > So I bet it was overwritten because of this.
              > Å tvrtok is a small village (pop 350) between Nove Mesto Nad Vahom and
              > Trencin along the main route. Nove Mesto Nad Vahom has had a concentration
              > of Moravkos over the years.
              > It's also a confirmation for me that the alteration of the V to an F is
              > common (my last name is Marafko from an earlier line of Moravkos) and
              > happened in Serbia, Slovakia and Hungary-Romania.
              >
              > Probably was worth the $35 monthly Ancestry charge.
              >
              > Peter M.
              >
              >
              > On 1 December 2012 00:52, John <johnqadam@...> wrote:
              >
              > > **
              > >
              > >
              > > >>> So I'm coming to the conclusion that the place disappeared or absorbed
              > > and there is no surviving record of it. . . at the moment. I'll try and
              > > look up his wife, Maria in Joko which apparently is Nyitra RC . . . Place
              > > of Birth on Ellis Island Manuscript MORAVKO I'm getting Prietrž and
              > > Osuské, so I still can't pinpoint the location. . . I'm guessing that you
              > > are referring to Osuske, which is between Jablonica and Prietrz. <<<
              > >
              > > The 1910 map at http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/nyitra.jpg is devoid
              > > of the necessary detail, south of Szenicz in the yellow area. However,
              > > Korlatko is shown there. The current Podrobny Auto Atlas shows it as
              > > Cerova. Further south along the same road is Prievaly (current name).
              > >
              > > Thus area is very sparsely populated but the facts seem to fit.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
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