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Re: [S-R] Re: Place of Birth on Ellis Island Manuscript MORAVKO

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  • Sue Martin
    There are two Jokos. One is now Osusko, the other is Dobra Voda. They are not far from each other. Sue ... From: htcstech Sent:
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 30, 2012
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      There are two Jokos. One is now Osusko, the other is Dobra Voda. They are not far from each other.

      Sue

      -----Original Message-----
      From: "htcstech" <htcstech@...>
      Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 11:49pm
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Place of Birth on Ellis Island Manuscript MORAVKO






      @ JohnqAdam,
      Can you re-write those village names without accents? I'm not using my
      normal laptop which has the correct UTF installed.
      Is that Korlatko?

      I think I'm getting closer. There are a few Jokos which was his place of
      residence when he left for Bremen, but his birthplace was different.
      Using Cisarik I got Oszuszkó and came up with different village names.
      I'm getting Prietrž and Osuské, so I still can't pinpoint the location.
      I'm guessing that you are referring to Osuske, which is between Jablonica
      and Prietrz.

      Then there is the Dobra Voda older name of Joko which is probably his
      former residence maybe.

      @MGMojher - Did you read 'Palonca' from the manifest? Is that how you see
      it?

      Thanks John Z! 'Pallocsha' or Palocsa > Plavec - far away from other
      suggestions, near the Polish border. Did you count down to the 10th entry?
      It looks like (to me) (L) or (F) Felso (means upper) then Ko --------
      So Felso Ko is what I get.
      The K word could be Korlatko but as the scribe overwrote a few letters, I
      can't make it out.

      Peter M.

      On 30 November 2012 06:09, John <[mailto:johnqadam%40yahoo.com] johnqadam@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > >>> Sandor Moravko arrived in May 5 1909 from Joko . . . His birthplace is
      > listed in the last column on the 2nd page however I
      >
      > can't read it properly.<<<
      >
      > Oszuszkó (aka Jókő-Oszuszkó és Korlátkő-Oszuszkó), Nyitra,
      > Hungary
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John
      ... Can you re-write those village names without accents? I m not using my normal laptop which has the correct UTF installed. Is that Korlatko?
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 30, 2012
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        >>> JohnqAdam,
        Can you re-write those village names without accents? I'm not using my
        normal laptop which has the correct UTF installed. Is that Korlatko? <<<

        Better yet, I will tell you HOW I got the relevant village names.

        Go to the OLD LDS site and plug in your village name under PLACE SEARCH.

        https://familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp

        There you have it!
      • John
        ... The 1910 map at http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/nyitra.jpg is devoid of the necessary detail, south of Szenicz in the yellow area. However, Korlatko
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 30, 2012
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          >>> So I'm coming to the conclusion that the place disappeared or absorbed and there is no surviving record of it. . . at the moment. I'll try and look up his wife, Maria in Joko which apparently is Nyitra RC . . . Place of Birth on Ellis Island Manuscript MORAVKO I'm getting Prietrž and Osuské, so I still can't pinpoint the location. . . I'm guessing that you are referring to Osuske, which is between Jablonica and Prietrz. <<<

          The 1910 map at http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/nyitra.jpg is devoid of the necessary detail, south of Szenicz in the yellow area. However, Korlatko is shown there. The current Podrobny Auto Atlas shows it as Cerova. Further south along the same road is Prievaly (current name).

          Thus area is very sparsely populated but the facts seem to fit.
        • htcstech
          WooHoo! I found him and place of birth! As Sandor MORAVKO appeared to disappear from records, I kept searching and found an Alexander MORAFKO born at the same
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 30, 2012
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            WooHoo! I found him and place of birth!

            As Sandor MORAVKO appeared to disappear from records, I kept searching and
            found an Alexander MORAFKO born at the same estimated year in the 1915
            census, confirmed in the 1925 census and then in the 1919 Declaration of
            Intention -Naturalization record - same height, eye colour etc as the ship
            manifest.
            Not only did he register for WW1 draft, but also WW2 as well.
            He had 3 girls, no sons and so the name died with him. His wife was 10
            years younger.

            One of my earlier guesses was Konstrvrta which looked peculiarly like
            Štvrtok or Thursday.
            He considered himself as a Slovak and when asked for his place of birth, he
            first said stvrtok, thought again and changed it to the Hungarian
            Csutortok, but the actual village was called Vagcsutortok at the time.
            So I bet it was overwritten because of this.
            Štvrtok is a small village (pop 350) between Nove Mesto Nad Vahom and
            Trencin along the main route. Nove Mesto Nad Vahom has had a concentration
            of Moravkos over the years.
            It's also a confirmation for me that the alteration of the V to an F is
            common (my last name is Marafko from an earlier line of Moravkos) and
            happened in Serbia, Slovakia and Hungary-Romania.

            Probably was worth the $35 monthly Ancestry charge.

            Peter M.


            On 1 December 2012 00:52, John <johnqadam@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > >>> So I'm coming to the conclusion that the place disappeared or absorbed
            > and there is no surviving record of it. . . at the moment. I'll try and
            > look up his wife, Maria in Joko which apparently is Nyitra RC . . . Place
            > of Birth on Ellis Island Manuscript MORAVKO I'm getting Prietrž and
            > Osuské, so I still can't pinpoint the location. . . I'm guessing that you
            > are referring to Osuske, which is between Jablonica and Prietrz. <<<
            >
            > The 1910 map at http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/nyitra.jpg is devoid
            > of the necessary detail, south of Szenicz in the yellow area. However,
            > Korlatko is shown there. The current Podrobny Auto Atlas shows it as
            > Cerova. Further south along the same road is Prievaly (current name).
            >
            > Thus area is very sparsely populated but the facts seem to fit.
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • John
            CONGRATULATIONS! It s just great when you have a major breakthrough. The online RC church records for Stvrtok are found at:
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 1, 2012
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              CONGRATULATIONS! It's just great when you have a major breakthrough.

              The online RC church records for Stvrtok are found at:

              https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Frecords%2Fwaypoint%2FMM17-9M1%3An1105661400%3Fcc%3D1554443

              Slovakia, Church and Synagogue Books, 1592-1910Roman Catholic (Rímsko-katolícká cirkev)Nové Mesto nad Váhom Bosaca

              Baptisms (Krsty) 1691-1740 (Inv. č. 140)Baptisms (Krsty) 1740-1789 (Inv. č. 141)Baptisms (Krsty) 1790-1842 (Inv. č. 142)Baptisms (Krsty) 1852-1884 (Inv. č. 144)Baptisms (Krsty) 1885-1889 (Inv. č. 145)Baptisms (Krsty) 1889-1895 (Inv. č. 145 (pokrač.))Baptisms, marriages, deaths (Krsty, manželstvá, úmrtia) 1843-1851 (Inv. č. 143)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1788-1788 (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1800-1800 (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1829-1829 (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1841-1841 (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1855-1855 (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1860-1860 (Inv. č. 141)Converts (Konvertiti) 1759-1791 (Inv. č. 141)Converts (Konvertiti) 1792-1870 (Inv. č. 142)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1691-1718 (Inv. č. 140)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1722-1740 (Inv. č. 140)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1740-1769 (Inv. č. 141)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1768-1789 (Inv. č. 141 (pokrač.))Deaths (Úmrtia) 1790-1842 (Inv. č. 142)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1852-1879 (Inv. č. 147)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1880-1906 (Inv. č. 149)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1906-1910 (Inv. č. 149 (pokrač.))Marriages (Manželstvá) 1691-1740 (Inv. č. 140)Marriages (Manželstvá) 1740-1790 (Inv. č. 141)Marriages (Manželstvá) 1790-1842 (Inv. č. 146)Marriages (Manželstvá) 1852-1884 (Inv. č. 147)Marriages (Manželstvá) 1885-1896 (Inv. č. 148)
            • htcstech
              Thanks very much for the link Johnqadam! After pouring over the records for Stvrtok, I found nothing. Not giving up, I used the Familysearch database in all
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 1, 2012
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                Thanks very much for the link Johnqadam!
                After pouring over the records for Stvrtok, I found nothing.
                Not giving up, I used the Familysearch database in all different manners
                and ways and came up with (eventually) Sandor Moravek in a place called
                Plavecký Štvrtok.
                Turns out that even he did not remember his birthdate exactly. It was the
                18th of Dec 1876 instead of the 8th Dec 1877. The ship manifest was right.
                Also Plavecký Štvrtok was known as Detrekőcsütörtök which makes a huge
                amount of sense as it very closely resembles the handwritten place of birth
                in the ship's manifest in 1909 - Yet by 1919 when he applied for
                Naturalization, he shortened it to Csutortok and forgot his birthdate.
                Detrekőcsütörtök is very much closer to hometown as well.

                He was the illegitimate son of Carolina Moravek from Malaczka, Close to the
                Austrian border, along the way from Bratislava to Kuty. No wonder he spoke
                German.

                For me, the MORAVEK-MORAVKO-MORAFKO transformation answers certain
                questions that I asked of this group a while ago.
                Simply, MORAVEK appears to be the Czech (and possibly Slovak version) of
                the Moravko name. Somehow, his mother called herself or was named Moravek,
                yet he called himself Moravko. Why? Why not stay with the name Moravek???
                An answer to this could be that the family name was Moravko (possible from
                Moravke - a Hungarian diminuitive form for Moravia and the name of a
                tributary of the Morava river).

                I had hoped that there was no connection between Moravek and Moravko as far
                as genealogy is concerned. Now I am not so sure. It makes my work much
                harder.

                Peter M.


                On 1 December 2012 23:58, John <johnqadam@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                > CONGRATULATIONS! It's just great when you have a major breakthrough.
                >
                > The online RC church records for Stvrtok are found at:
                >
                >
                > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Frecords%2Fwaypoint%2FMM17-9M1%3An1105661400%3Fcc%3D1554443
                >
                > Slovakia, Church and Synagogue Books, 1592-1910Roman Catholic
                > (Rímsko-katolícká cirkev)Nové Mesto nad Váhom Bosaca
                >
                > Baptisms (Krsty) 1691-1740 (Inv. č. 140)Baptisms (Krsty) 1740-1789
                > (Inv. č. 141)Baptisms (Krsty) 1790-1842 (Inv. č. 142)Baptisms
                > (Krsty) 1852-1884 (Inv. č. 144)Baptisms (Krsty) 1885-1889 (Inv.
                > č. 145)Baptisms (Krsty) 1889-1895 (Inv. č. 145
                > (pokrač.))Baptisms, marriages, deaths (Krsty, manželstvá, úmrtia)
                > 1843-1851 (Inv. č. 143)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1788-1788 (Inv.
                > č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1800-1800 (Inv. č.
                > 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1829-1829 (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations
                > (Birmovaní) 1841-1841 (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1855-1855
                > (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1860-1860 (Inv. č.
                > 141)Converts (Konvertiti) 1759-1791 (Inv. č. 141)Converts (Konvertiti)
                > 1792-1870 (Inv. č. 142)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1691-1718 (Inv. č.
                > 140)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1722-1740 (Inv. č. 140)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1740-1769
                > (Inv. č. 141)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1768-1789 (Inv. č. 141
                > (pokrač.))Deaths (Úmrtia) 1790-1842 (Inv. č. 142)Deaths (Úmrtia)
                > 1852-1879 (Inv. č. 147)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1880-1906 (Inv. č.
                > 149)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1906-1910 (Inv. č. 149 (pokrač.))Marriages
                > (Manželstvá) 1691-1740 (Inv. č. 140)Marriages (Manželstvá) 1740-1790
                > (Inv. č. 141)Marriages (Manželstvá) 1790-1842 (Inv. č.
                > 146)Marriages (Manželstvá) 1852-1884 (Inv. č. 147)Marriages
                > (Manželstvá) 1885-1896 (Inv. č. 148)
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • patskanovo
                Congradulations Peter! Dennis
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 2, 2012
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                  Congradulations Peter!

                  Dennis

                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > WooHoo! I found him and place of birth!
                  >
                  > As Sandor MORAVKO appeared to disappear from records, I kept searching and
                  > found an Alexander MORAFKO born at the same estimated year in the 1915
                  > census, confirmed in the 1925 census and then in the 1919 Declaration of
                  > Intention -Naturalization record - same height, eye colour etc as the ship
                  > manifest.
                  > Not only did he register for WW1 draft, but also WW2 as well.
                  > He had 3 girls, no sons and so the name died with him. His wife was 10
                  > years younger.
                  >
                  > One of my earlier guesses was Konstrvrta which looked peculiarly like
                  > Å tvrtok or Thursday.
                  > He considered himself as a Slovak and when asked for his place of birth, he
                  > first said stvrtok, thought again and changed it to the Hungarian
                  > Csutortok, but the actual village was called Vagcsutortok at the time.
                  > So I bet it was overwritten because of this.
                  > Å tvrtok is a small village (pop 350) between Nove Mesto Nad Vahom and
                  > Trencin along the main route. Nove Mesto Nad Vahom has had a concentration
                  > of Moravkos over the years.
                  > It's also a confirmation for me that the alteration of the V to an F is
                  > common (my last name is Marafko from an earlier line of Moravkos) and
                  > happened in Serbia, Slovakia and Hungary-Romania.
                  >
                  > Probably was worth the $35 monthly Ancestry charge.
                  >
                  > Peter M.
                  >
                  >
                  > On 1 December 2012 00:52, John <johnqadam@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > **
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > >>> So I'm coming to the conclusion that the place disappeared or absorbed
                  > > and there is no surviving record of it. . . at the moment. I'll try and
                  > > look up his wife, Maria in Joko which apparently is Nyitra RC . . . Place
                  > > of Birth on Ellis Island Manuscript MORAVKO I'm getting Prietrž and
                  > > Osuské, so I still can't pinpoint the location. . . I'm guessing that you
                  > > are referring to Osuske, which is between Jablonica and Prietrz. <<<
                  > >
                  > > The 1910 map at http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/nyitra.jpg is devoid
                  > > of the necessary detail, south of Szenicz in the yellow area. However,
                  > > Korlatko is shown there. The current Podrobny Auto Atlas shows it as
                  > > Cerova. Further south along the same road is Prievaly (current name).
                  > >
                  > > Thus area is very sparsely populated but the facts seem to fit.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
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