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Re: [S-R] Place of Birth on Ellis Island Manuscript MORAVKO

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  • hwedhlor
    Peter, Now that I look at line 3 again it is more probably Paloncso rather than Paloncsa . John Z
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 29, 2012
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      Peter,

      Now that I look at line 3 again it is more probably
      "Paloncso" rather than "Paloncsa".

      John Z

      On 11/29/2012 5:02 AM, htcstech wrote:
      >
      > I may have found a relative who went to the US and is
      > listed in the Ellis
      > Island database.
      >
      > Sandor Moravko arrived in May 5 1909 from Joko in Hungary
      > but of the Slovak
      > race. His birthplace is listed in the last column on the
      > 2nd page however I
      > can't read it properly.
      > If anyone would like to try I'll be greatful.
      > Otherwise, is there another form of this manifest in plain
      > text? It appears
      > only the names page are transcribed.
      >
      > Here's the pop up link which may not work:
      > http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup_weif_5a.asp?src=%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Ftif2gif%2Eexe%3FT%3D%5C%5C%5C%5C192%2E168%2E100%2E11%5C%5CIMAGES%5C%5CT715%2D1257%5C%5CT715%2D12570504%2ETIF%26S%3D%2E5&pID=101586110250&name=Sandor%26nbsp%3BMoravko&doa=May+05%2C+1909&port=Bremen&line=0010
      >
      > Here are the details if the pop up doesn't work:
      > Type in Moravko into the Ellis Island search.
      > There's only 1.
      > Sandor Moravko, 31 Male from Joko, Hungary
      >
      > Or click below:
      >
      > http://www.ellisisland.org/search/viewTextManifest.asp?pID=101586110250
      >
      > This will give you the text version of the passenger list
      > of the
      > relevant page 1. He's on Line 10
      > Clicking on the link will bring you to the original
      > manifest that you can
      > enlarge - but shows page 2. Count down 10 lines on the
      > last column to find
      > the place of birth - Begins with an L maybe.
      >
      > Thanks
      >
      > Peter M.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
    • John
      ... can t read it properly.
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 29, 2012
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        >>> Sandor Moravko arrived in May 5 1909 from Joko . . . His birthplace is listed in the last column on the 2nd page however I
        can't read it properly.<<<

        Oszuszkó (aka Jókő-Oszuszkó és Korlátkő-Oszuszkó), Nyitra, Hungary
      • MGMojher
        OLD NAMES of PLAVNICA 1773 Plavnicza, Plawnicza, 1786 Plawnicza, 1808 Plavnicza, 1863 Plavnic, 1873–1902 Plavnica, 1907–1913 Palonca, 1920 Plavnica,
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 29, 2012
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          OLD NAMES of PLAVNICA
          1773 Plavnicza, Plawnicza, 1786 Plawnicza, 1808 Plavnicza, 1863 Plavnic, 1873–1902 Plavnica, 1907–1913 Palonca, 1920 Plavnica, Plavonica, 1927– Plavnica

          I believe this is the village that you are looking for. It happens to be one of my ancestral villages. I have visited six times.

          OLD NAMES of DOBRA VODA
          1773 Jokő, Guttenstein, Dobra Woda, 1786 Dobrá Woda, Jó-Kő, 1808 Jókő, Jókeő, Dobrá Woda, 1863–1913 Jókő, 1920– Dobrá Voda

          From: htcstech
          Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 4:02 AM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [S-R] Place of Birth on Ellis Island Manuscript MORAVKO


          I may have found a relative who went to the US and is listed in the Ellis
          Island database.

          Sandor Moravko arrived in May 5 1909 from Joko in Hungary but of the Slovak
          race. His birthplace is listed in the last column on the 2nd page however I
          can't read it properly.
          If anyone would like to try I'll be greatful.
          Otherwise, is there another form of this manifest in plain text? It appears
          only the names page are transcribed.

          Here's the pop up link which may not work:
          http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup_weif_5a.asp?src=%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Ftif2gif%2Eexe%3FT%3D%5C%5C%5C%5C192%2E168%2E100%2E11%5C%5CIMAGES%5C%5CT715%2D1257%5C%5CT715%2D12570504%2ETIF%26S%3D%2E5&pID=101586110250&name=Sandor%26nbsp%3BMoravko&doa=May+05%2C+1909&port=Bremen&line=0010

          Here are the details if the pop up doesn't work:
          Type in Moravko into the Ellis Island search.
          There's only 1.
          Sandor Moravko, 31 Male from Joko, Hungary

          Or click below:

          http://www.ellisisland.org/search/viewTextManifest.asp?pID=101586110250

          This will give you the text version of the passenger list of the
          relevant page 1. He's on Line 10
          Clicking on the link will bring you to the original manifest that you can
          enlarge - but shows page 2. Count down 10 lines on the last column to find
          the place of birth - Begins with an L maybe.

          Thanks

          Peter M.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • htcstech
          @ JohnqAdam, Can you re-write those village names without accents? I m not using my normal laptop which has the correct UTF installed. Is that Korlatko? I
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 29, 2012
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            @ JohnqAdam,
            Can you re-write those village names without accents? I'm not using my
            normal laptop which has the correct UTF installed.
            Is that Korlatko?

            I think I'm getting closer. There are a few Jokos which was his place of
            residence when he left for Bremen, but his birthplace was different.
            Using Cisarik I got Oszuszkó and came up with different village names.
            I'm getting Prietrž and Osuské, so I still can't pinpoint the location.
            I'm guessing that you are referring to Osuske, which is between Jablonica
            and Prietrz.

            Then there is the Dobra Voda older name of Joko which is probably his
            former residence maybe.

            @MGMojher - Did you read 'Palonca' from the manifest? Is that how you see
            it?

            Thanks John Z! 'Pallocsha' or Palocsa > Plavec - far away from other
            suggestions, near the Polish border. Did you count down to the 10th entry?
            It looks like (to me) (L) or (F) Felso (means upper) then Ko --------
            So Felso Ko is what I get.
            The K word could be Korlatko but as the scribe overwrote a few letters, I
            can't make it out.

            Peter M.



            On 30 November 2012 06:09, John <johnqadam@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > >>> Sandor Moravko arrived in May 5 1909 from Joko . . . His birthplace is
            > listed in the last column on the 2nd page however I
            >
            > can't read it properly.<<<
            >
            > Oszuszkó (aka Jókő-Oszuszkó és Korlátkő-Oszuszkó), Nyitra,
            > Hungary
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • htcstech
            I had a thought that maybe the village is not in current day Slovakia as I can t get a good match using letter shapes and Cisarik lists. I get these Felso
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 29, 2012
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              I had a thought that maybe the village is not in current day Slovakia as I
              can't get a good match using letter shapes and Cisarik lists.

              I get these 'Felso' prefixes of village names from Cisarik : None really
              matches the letter shapes well. Felso is Upper and Also is Lower.

              Felsokalnok<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horny_Kalnik_Martin_ZI_Turocz_Turiec.html>
              Felsokalosa<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Vysna_Kalosa_Rimavska_Sobota_BC_Gomor_Gemer.html>
              Felso-Kalosa<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Vysna_Kalosa_Rimavska_Sobota_BC_Gomor_Gemer.html>
              Felso-Kalossa<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Vysna_Kalosa_Rimavska_Sobota_BC_Gomor_Gemer.html>
              Felsokamenec<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horny_Kamenec_Prievidza_TC_Bars_Tekov.html>
              Felso-Kamenecz<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horny_Kamenec_Prievidza_TC_Bars_Tekov.html>
              Felsokanya<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Sarisske_Jastrabie_Stara_Lubovna_PV_Saros_Saris.html>
              Felsokap <http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horne_Kapince_Nitra_NI_Nyitra_Nitra.html>
              Felso-Kap<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horne_Kapince_Nitra_NI_Nyitra_Nitra.html>
              Felso-Kapp<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horne_Kapince_Nitra_NI_Nyitra_Nitra.html>
              Felsokazmer<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Vysny_Kazimir_Vranov_nad_Toplou_PV_Zemplen_Zemplin.html>
              Felso-Kelnek<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horny_Kalnik_Martin_ZI_Turocz_Turiec.html>
              Felsokelnik<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horny_Kalnik_Martin_ZI_Turocz_Turiec.html>
              Felso-Kelnik<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horny_Kalnik_Martin_ZI_Turocz_Turiec.html>
              Felsokemence<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Vysna_Kamenica_Kosice_okolie_KI_AbaujTorna_AbovTurna.html>
              Felso-Kemencze<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horny_Kamenec_Prievidza_TC_Bars_Tekov.html>
              Felso-Kemencze<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Vysna_Kamenica_Kosice_okolie_KI_AbaujTorna_AbovTurna.html>
              Felsokemenec<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horny_Kamenec_Prievidza_TC_Bars_Tekov.html>
              Felso-K-Lancz<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Vysny_Lanec_Kosice_okolie_KI_AbaujTorna_AbovTurna.html>
              Felsokocseny <http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kucin_Bardejov_PV_Saros_Saris.html>
              Felsokocskoc<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horne_Kockovce_Puchov_TC_Trencsen_Trencin.html>
              Felso-Kocskocz<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horne_Kockovce_Puchov_TC_Trencsen_Trencin.html>
              Felsokocsoc<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horne_Kocovce_Nove_Mesto_nad_Vahom_TC_Trencsen_Trencin.html>
              Felsokohany<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kochanovce_Humenne_PV_Zemplen_Zemplin.html>
              Felsokomarnik<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Vysny_Komarnik_Svidnik_PV_Saros_Saris.html>
              Felso-Komarnik<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Vysny_Komarnik_Svidnik_PV_Saros_Saris.html>
              Felsokomarnok<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Vysny_Komarnik_Svidnik_PV_Saros_Saris.html>
              Felso-Komarnyik<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Vysny_Komarnik_Svidnik_PV_Saros_Saris.html>
              Felsokomaroc <http://www.cisarik.com/0_Komarov_Bardejov_PV_Saros_Saris.html>
              Felsokorompa<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horna_Krupa_Trnava_TA_Pozsony_Bratislava.html>
              Felso-Korompa<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horna_Krupa_Trnava_TA_Pozsony_Bratislava.html>
              Felsokoroskeny<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horne_Krskany_Nitra_NI_Nyitra_Nitra.html>
              Felso-Koroskeny<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horne_Krskany_Nitra_NI_Nyitra_Nitra.html>
              Felsokortvelyes<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Vysny_Hrusov_Humenne_PV_Zemplen_Zemplin.html>
              Felso-Kortvelyes<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Vysny_Hrusov_Humenne_PV_Zemplen_Zemplin.html>
              Felsokrucso<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Krucov_Stropkov_PV_Zemplen_Zemplin.html>
              Felsokubin<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Vysny_Kubin_Dolny_Kubin_ZI_Arva_Orava.html>
              Felso-Kubin<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Vysny_Kubin_Dolny_Kubin_ZI_Arva_Orava.html>
              Felso-Kürtvelyes<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Vysny_Hrusov_Humenne_PV_Zemplen_Zemplin.html>


              Considering there is no y or g or any other down letters in the middle and
              theres 2 or 3 up letters like k etc, it could be:

              koroskeny
              kocskoc kocskocz
              koroskeny
              kortvelyes?
              Korlatko or korlathko (not in the above list).

              Koc~ villages:

              *Kocelovce <http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kocelovce_Roznava_KI_Gomor_Gemer.html>*
              Kochanoc<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kochanovce_Trencin_TC_Trencsen_Trencin.html>
              Kochanocz<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kochanovce_Trencin_TC_Trencsen_Trencin.html>
              *Kochanovce<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kochanovce_Bardejov_PV_Saros_Saris.html>
              **Kochanovce<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kochanovce_Humenne_PV_Zemplen_Zemplin.html>
              **Kochanovce<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kochanovce_Trebisov_KI_Zemplen_Zemplin.html>
              **Kochanovce<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kochanovce_Trencin_TC_Trencsen_Trencin.html>
              **Kochanovce <http://www.cisarik.com/0_Trnkov_Presov_PV_Saros_Saris.html>*
              Kochanowce<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kochanovce_Trencin_TC_Trencsen_Trencin.html>
              Kochanowcze<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kochanovce_Trencin_TC_Trencsen_Trencin.html>
              *Kociha<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kociha_Rimavska_Sobota_BC_Gomor_Gemer.html>
              **Kocin <http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kocin_Piestany_TA_Nyitra_Nitra.html>**
              Kocin-Lancar<http://www.cisarik.com/0_KocinLancar_Piestany_TA_Nyitra_Nitra.html>
              *Kockowce<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Dolne_Kockovce_Puchov_TC_Trencsen_Trencin.html>
              Kockowce<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horne_Kockovce_Puchov_TC_Trencsen_Trencin.html>
              *Kocovce<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kocovce_Nove_Mesto_nad_Vahom_TC_Trencsen_Trencin.html>
              *Kocschin <http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kocin_Piestany_TA_Nyitra_Nitra.html>
              Kocschocz<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Dolne_Kocovce_Nove_Mesto_nad_Vahom_TC_Trencsen_Trencin.html>
              Kocschocz<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horne_Kocovce_Nove_Mesto_nad_Vahom_TC_Trencsen_Trencin.html>
              Kocseny <http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kocin_Piestany_TA_Nyitra_Nitra.html>Kocsin<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kocin_Piestany_TA_Nyitra_Nitra.html>
              Kocsoc<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kocovce_Nove_Mesto_nad_Vahom_TC_Trencsen_Trencin.html>
              Kocsocz<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Dolne_Kocovce_Nove_Mesto_nad_Vahom_TC_Trencsen_Trencin.html>
              Kocsocz<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horne_Kocovce_Nove_Mesto_nad_Vahom_TC_Trencsen_Trencin.html>
              Kocur <http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kocurany_Prievidza_TC_Nyitra_Nitra.html>*
              Kocurany <http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kocurany_Prievidza_TC_Nyitra_Nitra.html>*
              Kocurany <http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kocurany_Prievidza_TC_Nyitra_Nitra.html>
              Kocuric <http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kocurice_Piestany_TA_Nyitra_Nitra.html>*
              Kocurice <http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kocurany_Prievidza_TC_Nyitra_Nitra.html>*
              **
              *Kocurice <http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kocurice_Piestany_TA_Nyitra_Nitra.html>*
              Kocuryce <http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kocurice_Piestany_TA_Nyitra_Nitra.html>
              Kocyha <http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kociha_Rimavska_Sobota_BC_Gomor_Gemer.html>
              Kocziha<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kociha_Rimavska_Sobota_BC_Gomor_Gemer.html>
              Koczowcze<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Dolne_Kocovce_Nove_Mesto_nad_Vahom_TC_Trencsen_Trencin.html>
              Koczowcze<http://www.cisarik.com/0_Horne_Kocovce_Nove_Mesto_nad_Vahom_TC_Trencsen_Trencin.html>
              Koczur <http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kocurany_Prievidza_TC_Nyitra_Nitra.html>
              Koczuricz <http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kocurice_Piestany_TA_Nyitra_Nitra.html>
              Koczuricze <http://www.cisarik.com/0_Kocurice_Piestany_TA_Nyitra_Nitra.html>


              If the first part is Felso, then the examples above don't really convince
              me.
              I could be totally wrong. That wouldn't suprise me at all :(

              Peter M.


              On 30 November 2012 15:49, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:

              > @ JohnqAdam,
              > Can you re-write those village names without accents? I'm not using my
              > normal laptop which has the correct UTF installed.
              > Is that Korlatko?
              >
              > I think I'm getting closer. There are a few Jokos which was his place of
              > residence when he left for Bremen, but his birthplace was different.
              > Using Cisarik I got Oszuszkó and came up with different village names.
              > I'm getting Prietrž and Osuské, so I still can't pinpoint the location.
              > I'm guessing that you are referring to Osuske, which is between Jablonica
              > and Prietrz.
              >
              > Then there is the Dobra Voda older name of Joko which is probably his
              > former residence maybe.
              >
              > @MGMojher - Did you read 'Palonca' from the manifest? Is that how you see
              > it?
              >
              > Thanks John Z! 'Pallocsha' or Palocsa > Plavec - far away from other
              > suggestions, near the Polish border. Did you count down to the 10th entry?
              > It looks like (to me) (L) or (F) Felso (means upper) then Ko --------
              > So Felso Ko is what I get.
              > The K word could be Korlatko but as the scribe overwrote a few letters, I
              > can't make it out.
              >
              > Peter M.
              >
              >
              >
              > On 30 November 2012 06:09, John <johnqadam@...> wrote:
              >
              >> **
              >>
              >>
              >> >>> Sandor Moravko arrived in May 5 1909 from Joko . . . His birthplace
              >> is listed in the last column on the 2nd page however I
              >>
              >> can't read it properly.<<<
              >>
              >> Oszuszkó (aka Jókő-Oszuszkó és Korlátkő-Oszuszkó), Nyitra,
              >> Hungary
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • MGMojher
              I read it as “Paloncso”. 1907–1913 Palonca = Plavnica 1863–1913 Palocsa = Plavec From these spellings it would appear to be a toss up what
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 29, 2012
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                I read it as “Paloncso”.
                1907–1913 Palonca = Plavnica
                1863–1913 Palocsa = Plavec
                From these spellings it would appear to be a toss up what “Paloncso” represents. There is a “tie-breaker”, the Doktor family also from “Paloncso” above happen to relatives of mine and they are from Plavnica.

                From: htcstech
                Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 8:49 PM
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Place of Birth on Ellis Island Manuscript MORAVKO


                @ JohnqAdam,
                Can you re-write those village names without accents? I'm not using my
                normal laptop which has the correct UTF installed.
                Is that Korlatko?

                I think I'm getting closer. There are a few Jokos which was his place of
                residence when he left for Bremen, but his birthplace was different.
                Using Cisarik I got Oszuszkó and came up with different village names.
                I'm getting Prietrž and Osuské, so I still can't pinpoint the location.
                I'm guessing that you are referring to Osuske, which is between Jablonica
                and Prietrz.

                Then there is the Dobra Voda older name of Joko which is probably his
                former residence maybe.

                @MGMojher - Did you read 'Palonca' from the manifest? Is that how you see
                it?

                Thanks John Z! 'Pallocsha' or Palocsa > Plavec - far away from other
                suggestions, near the Polish border. Did you count down to the 10th entry?
                It looks like (to me) (L) or (F) Felso (means upper) then Ko --------
                So Felso Ko is what I get.
                The K word could be Korlatko but as the scribe overwrote a few letters, I
                can't make it out.

                Peter M.

                On 30 November 2012 06:09, John <mailto:johnqadam%40yahoo.com> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                > >>> Sandor Moravko arrived in May 5 1909 from Joko . . . His birthplace is
                > listed in the last column on the 2nd page however I
                >
                > can't read it properly.<<<
                >
                > Oszuszkó (aka Jókő-Oszuszkó és Korlátkő-Oszuszkó), Nyitra,
                > Hungary
                >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • htcstech
                MEH! I just paid $35 because ancestry com had further information . I was hoping that the birthplace was written somewhere else.... Well I viewed the
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 30, 2012
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                  MEH! I just paid $35 because ancestry com had 'further information'.
                  I was hoping that the birthplace was written somewhere else....
                  Well I viewed the transcript and the birthplace was transcribed as LETRO
                  KOCENTERKY from the same document I've been staring at for the last 2 days
                  - Please tell me that's a Slovak village somewhere!

                  In the meantime, I captured a 400% cut of the word(s) and image manipulated
                  it with contrast and brightness.
                  If you do that, you can see pressure points, fade in and out to see other
                  letters etc.
                  In the end I had a list of possible variations like:
                  Konstrvrta
                  Kocenhorta
                  Kooshovfalu <- you get this if you experiment with the last few letters
                  Kocestorta ~ arfa ~ tarka~ etc etc etc
                  Nothing on fallingrain, Cisarik or Fuzzy Gazetteer got close, with or
                  without the 'Felso=Letro' prefix.

                  So I'm coming to the conclusion that the place disappeared or absorbed and
                  there is no surviving record of it.

                  What's also strange, is that there is no record of him in Slovakia or
                  Hungary - no marriage or birth, no death record, military, or US residency
                  at the moment. I'll try and look up his wife, Maria in Joko which
                  apparently is Nyitra RC as first port of call.

                  Thanks for your help everyone.

                  Peter M.

                  Transcript follows:

                  Name:Sándor MoravkóArrival Date:5 May 1909Birth Date:abt 1878 Birth
                  Location:Hungaria, HungaryBirth Location Other:letro kocenterkyAge:31Gender:
                  MaleEthnicity/ Nationality: SlovakianPort of Departure:BremenPort of
                  Arrival:New York, New YorkShip Name:Friedrich Der Grosse




                  On 30 November 2012 17:49, MGMojher <mgmojher@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  > I read it as “Paloncso”.
                  > 1907–1913 Palonca = Plavnica
                  > 1863–1913 Palocsa = Plavec
                  > From these spellings it would appear to be a toss up what “Paloncso”
                  > represents. There is a “tie-breaker”, the Doktor family also from
                  > “Paloncso” above happen to relatives of mine and they are from Plavnica.
                  >
                  > From: htcstech
                  > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 8:49 PM
                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Place of Birth on Ellis Island Manuscript MORAVKO
                  >
                  >
                  > @ JohnqAdam,
                  > Can you re-write those village names without accents? I'm not using my
                  > normal laptop which has the correct UTF installed.
                  > Is that Korlatko?
                  >
                  > I think I'm getting closer. There are a few Jokos which was his place of
                  > residence when he left for Bremen, but his birthplace was different.
                  > Using Cisarik I got Oszuszkó and came up with different village names.
                  > I'm getting Prietrž and Osuské, so I still can't pinpoint the location.
                  > I'm guessing that you are referring to Osuske, which is between Jablonica
                  > and Prietrz.
                  >
                  > Then there is the Dobra Voda older name of Joko which is probably his
                  > former residence maybe.
                  >
                  > @MGMojher - Did you read 'Palonca' from the manifest? Is that how you see
                  > it?
                  >
                  > Thanks John Z! 'Pallocsha' or Palocsa > Plavec - far away from other
                  > suggestions, near the Polish border. Did you count down to the 10th entry?
                  > It looks like (to me) (L) or (F) Felso (means upper) then Ko --------
                  > So Felso Ko is what I get.
                  > The K word could be Korlatko but as the scribe overwrote a few letters, I
                  > can't make it out.
                  >
                  > Peter M.
                  >
                  > On 30 November 2012 06:09, John <mailto:johnqadam%40yahoo.com> wrote:
                  >
                  > > **
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > >>> Sandor Moravko arrived in May 5 1909 from Joko . . . His birthplace
                  > is
                  > > listed in the last column on the 2nd page however I
                  > >
                  > > can't read it properly.<<<
                  > >
                  > > Oszuszkó (aka Jókő-Oszuszkó és Korlátkő-Oszuszkó), Nyitra,
                  > > Hungary
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Sue Martin
                  There are two Jokos. One is now Osusko, the other is Dobra Voda. They are not far from each other. Sue ... From: htcstech Sent:
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 30, 2012
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                    There are two Jokos. One is now Osusko, the other is Dobra Voda. They are not far from each other.

                    Sue

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: "htcstech" <htcstech@...>
                    Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 11:49pm
                    To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: Place of Birth on Ellis Island Manuscript MORAVKO






                    @ JohnqAdam,
                    Can you re-write those village names without accents? I'm not using my
                    normal laptop which has the correct UTF installed.
                    Is that Korlatko?

                    I think I'm getting closer. There are a few Jokos which was his place of
                    residence when he left for Bremen, but his birthplace was different.
                    Using Cisarik I got Oszuszkó and came up with different village names.
                    I'm getting Prietrž and Osuské, so I still can't pinpoint the location.
                    I'm guessing that you are referring to Osuske, which is between Jablonica
                    and Prietrz.

                    Then there is the Dobra Voda older name of Joko which is probably his
                    former residence maybe.

                    @MGMojher - Did you read 'Palonca' from the manifest? Is that how you see
                    it?

                    Thanks John Z! 'Pallocsha' or Palocsa > Plavec - far away from other
                    suggestions, near the Polish border. Did you count down to the 10th entry?
                    It looks like (to me) (L) or (F) Felso (means upper) then Ko --------
                    So Felso Ko is what I get.
                    The K word could be Korlatko but as the scribe overwrote a few letters, I
                    can't make it out.

                    Peter M.

                    On 30 November 2012 06:09, John <[mailto:johnqadam%40yahoo.com] johnqadam@...> wrote:

                    > **
                    >
                    >
                    > >>> Sandor Moravko arrived in May 5 1909 from Joko . . . His birthplace is
                    > listed in the last column on the 2nd page however I
                    >
                    > can't read it properly.<<<
                    >
                    > Oszuszkó (aka Jókő-Oszuszkó és Korlátkő-Oszuszkó), Nyitra,
                    > Hungary
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • John
                    ... Can you re-write those village names without accents? I m not using my normal laptop which has the correct UTF installed. Is that Korlatko?
                    Message 9 of 16 , Nov 30, 2012
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                      >>> JohnqAdam,
                      Can you re-write those village names without accents? I'm not using my
                      normal laptop which has the correct UTF installed. Is that Korlatko? <<<

                      Better yet, I will tell you HOW I got the relevant village names.

                      Go to the OLD LDS site and plug in your village name under PLACE SEARCH.

                      https://familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp

                      There you have it!
                    • John
                      ... The 1910 map at http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/nyitra.jpg is devoid of the necessary detail, south of Szenicz in the yellow area. However, Korlatko
                      Message 10 of 16 , Nov 30, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        >>> So I'm coming to the conclusion that the place disappeared or absorbed and there is no surviving record of it. . . at the moment. I'll try and look up his wife, Maria in Joko which apparently is Nyitra RC . . . Place of Birth on Ellis Island Manuscript MORAVKO I'm getting Prietrž and Osuské, so I still can't pinpoint the location. . . I'm guessing that you are referring to Osuske, which is between Jablonica and Prietrz. <<<

                        The 1910 map at http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/nyitra.jpg is devoid of the necessary detail, south of Szenicz in the yellow area. However, Korlatko is shown there. The current Podrobny Auto Atlas shows it as Cerova. Further south along the same road is Prievaly (current name).

                        Thus area is very sparsely populated but the facts seem to fit.
                      • htcstech
                        WooHoo! I found him and place of birth! As Sandor MORAVKO appeared to disappear from records, I kept searching and found an Alexander MORAFKO born at the same
                        Message 11 of 16 , Nov 30, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          WooHoo! I found him and place of birth!

                          As Sandor MORAVKO appeared to disappear from records, I kept searching and
                          found an Alexander MORAFKO born at the same estimated year in the 1915
                          census, confirmed in the 1925 census and then in the 1919 Declaration of
                          Intention -Naturalization record - same height, eye colour etc as the ship
                          manifest.
                          Not only did he register for WW1 draft, but also WW2 as well.
                          He had 3 girls, no sons and so the name died with him. His wife was 10
                          years younger.

                          One of my earlier guesses was Konstrvrta which looked peculiarly like
                          Štvrtok or Thursday.
                          He considered himself as a Slovak and when asked for his place of birth, he
                          first said stvrtok, thought again and changed it to the Hungarian
                          Csutortok, but the actual village was called Vagcsutortok at the time.
                          So I bet it was overwritten because of this.
                          Štvrtok is a small village (pop 350) between Nove Mesto Nad Vahom and
                          Trencin along the main route. Nove Mesto Nad Vahom has had a concentration
                          of Moravkos over the years.
                          It's also a confirmation for me that the alteration of the V to an F is
                          common (my last name is Marafko from an earlier line of Moravkos) and
                          happened in Serbia, Slovakia and Hungary-Romania.

                          Probably was worth the $35 monthly Ancestry charge.

                          Peter M.


                          On 1 December 2012 00:52, John <johnqadam@...> wrote:

                          > **
                          >
                          >
                          > >>> So I'm coming to the conclusion that the place disappeared or absorbed
                          > and there is no surviving record of it. . . at the moment. I'll try and
                          > look up his wife, Maria in Joko which apparently is Nyitra RC . . . Place
                          > of Birth on Ellis Island Manuscript MORAVKO I'm getting Prietrž and
                          > Osuské, so I still can't pinpoint the location. . . I'm guessing that you
                          > are referring to Osuske, which is between Jablonica and Prietrz. <<<
                          >
                          > The 1910 map at http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/nyitra.jpg is devoid
                          > of the necessary detail, south of Szenicz in the yellow area. However,
                          > Korlatko is shown there. The current Podrobny Auto Atlas shows it as
                          > Cerova. Further south along the same road is Prievaly (current name).
                          >
                          > Thus area is very sparsely populated but the facts seem to fit.
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • John
                          CONGRATULATIONS! It s just great when you have a major breakthrough. The online RC church records for Stvrtok are found at:
                          Message 12 of 16 , Dec 1, 2012
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                            CONGRATULATIONS! It's just great when you have a major breakthrough.

                            The online RC church records for Stvrtok are found at:

                            https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Frecords%2Fwaypoint%2FMM17-9M1%3An1105661400%3Fcc%3D1554443

                            Slovakia, Church and Synagogue Books, 1592-1910Roman Catholic (Rímsko-katolícká cirkev)Nové Mesto nad Váhom Bosaca

                            Baptisms (Krsty) 1691-1740 (Inv. č. 140)Baptisms (Krsty) 1740-1789 (Inv. č. 141)Baptisms (Krsty) 1790-1842 (Inv. č. 142)Baptisms (Krsty) 1852-1884 (Inv. č. 144)Baptisms (Krsty) 1885-1889 (Inv. č. 145)Baptisms (Krsty) 1889-1895 (Inv. č. 145 (pokrač.))Baptisms, marriages, deaths (Krsty, manželstvá, úmrtia) 1843-1851 (Inv. č. 143)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1788-1788 (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1800-1800 (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1829-1829 (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1841-1841 (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1855-1855 (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1860-1860 (Inv. č. 141)Converts (Konvertiti) 1759-1791 (Inv. č. 141)Converts (Konvertiti) 1792-1870 (Inv. č. 142)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1691-1718 (Inv. č. 140)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1722-1740 (Inv. č. 140)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1740-1769 (Inv. č. 141)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1768-1789 (Inv. č. 141 (pokrač.))Deaths (Úmrtia) 1790-1842 (Inv. č. 142)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1852-1879 (Inv. č. 147)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1880-1906 (Inv. č. 149)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1906-1910 (Inv. č. 149 (pokrač.))Marriages (Manželstvá) 1691-1740 (Inv. č. 140)Marriages (Manželstvá) 1740-1790 (Inv. č. 141)Marriages (Manželstvá) 1790-1842 (Inv. č. 146)Marriages (Manželstvá) 1852-1884 (Inv. č. 147)Marriages (Manželstvá) 1885-1896 (Inv. č. 148)
                          • htcstech
                            Thanks very much for the link Johnqadam! After pouring over the records for Stvrtok, I found nothing. Not giving up, I used the Familysearch database in all
                            Message 13 of 16 , Dec 1, 2012
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                              Thanks very much for the link Johnqadam!
                              After pouring over the records for Stvrtok, I found nothing.
                              Not giving up, I used the Familysearch database in all different manners
                              and ways and came up with (eventually) Sandor Moravek in a place called
                              Plavecký Štvrtok.
                              Turns out that even he did not remember his birthdate exactly. It was the
                              18th of Dec 1876 instead of the 8th Dec 1877. The ship manifest was right.
                              Also Plavecký Štvrtok was known as Detrekőcsütörtök which makes a huge
                              amount of sense as it very closely resembles the handwritten place of birth
                              in the ship's manifest in 1909 - Yet by 1919 when he applied for
                              Naturalization, he shortened it to Csutortok and forgot his birthdate.
                              Detrekőcsütörtök is very much closer to hometown as well.

                              He was the illegitimate son of Carolina Moravek from Malaczka, Close to the
                              Austrian border, along the way from Bratislava to Kuty. No wonder he spoke
                              German.

                              For me, the MORAVEK-MORAVKO-MORAFKO transformation answers certain
                              questions that I asked of this group a while ago.
                              Simply, MORAVEK appears to be the Czech (and possibly Slovak version) of
                              the Moravko name. Somehow, his mother called herself or was named Moravek,
                              yet he called himself Moravko. Why? Why not stay with the name Moravek???
                              An answer to this could be that the family name was Moravko (possible from
                              Moravke - a Hungarian diminuitive form for Moravia and the name of a
                              tributary of the Morava river).

                              I had hoped that there was no connection between Moravek and Moravko as far
                              as genealogy is concerned. Now I am not so sure. It makes my work much
                              harder.

                              Peter M.


                              On 1 December 2012 23:58, John <johnqadam@...> wrote:

                              > **
                              >
                              >
                              > CONGRATULATIONS! It's just great when you have a major breakthrough.
                              >
                              > The online RC church records for Stvrtok are found at:
                              >
                              >
                              > https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Frecords%2Fwaypoint%2FMM17-9M1%3An1105661400%3Fcc%3D1554443
                              >
                              > Slovakia, Church and Synagogue Books, 1592-1910Roman Catholic
                              > (Rímsko-katolícká cirkev)Nové Mesto nad Váhom Bosaca
                              >
                              > Baptisms (Krsty) 1691-1740 (Inv. č. 140)Baptisms (Krsty) 1740-1789
                              > (Inv. č. 141)Baptisms (Krsty) 1790-1842 (Inv. č. 142)Baptisms
                              > (Krsty) 1852-1884 (Inv. č. 144)Baptisms (Krsty) 1885-1889 (Inv.
                              > č. 145)Baptisms (Krsty) 1889-1895 (Inv. č. 145
                              > (pokrač.))Baptisms, marriages, deaths (Krsty, manželstvá, úmrtia)
                              > 1843-1851 (Inv. č. 143)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1788-1788 (Inv.
                              > č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1800-1800 (Inv. č.
                              > 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1829-1829 (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations
                              > (Birmovaní) 1841-1841 (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1855-1855
                              > (Inv. č. 141)Confirmations (Birmovaní) 1860-1860 (Inv. č.
                              > 141)Converts (Konvertiti) 1759-1791 (Inv. č. 141)Converts (Konvertiti)
                              > 1792-1870 (Inv. č. 142)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1691-1718 (Inv. č.
                              > 140)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1722-1740 (Inv. č. 140)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1740-1769
                              > (Inv. č. 141)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1768-1789 (Inv. č. 141
                              > (pokrač.))Deaths (Úmrtia) 1790-1842 (Inv. č. 142)Deaths (Úmrtia)
                              > 1852-1879 (Inv. č. 147)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1880-1906 (Inv. č.
                              > 149)Deaths (Úmrtia) 1906-1910 (Inv. č. 149 (pokrač.))Marriages
                              > (Manželstvá) 1691-1740 (Inv. č. 140)Marriages (Manželstvá) 1740-1790
                              > (Inv. č. 141)Marriages (Manželstvá) 1790-1842 (Inv. č.
                              > 146)Marriages (Manželstvá) 1852-1884 (Inv. č. 147)Marriages
                              > (Manželstvá) 1885-1896 (Inv. č. 148)
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • patskanovo
                              Congradulations Peter! Dennis
                              Message 14 of 16 , Dec 2, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Congradulations Peter!

                                Dennis

                                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > WooHoo! I found him and place of birth!
                                >
                                > As Sandor MORAVKO appeared to disappear from records, I kept searching and
                                > found an Alexander MORAFKO born at the same estimated year in the 1915
                                > census, confirmed in the 1925 census and then in the 1919 Declaration of
                                > Intention -Naturalization record - same height, eye colour etc as the ship
                                > manifest.
                                > Not only did he register for WW1 draft, but also WW2 as well.
                                > He had 3 girls, no sons and so the name died with him. His wife was 10
                                > years younger.
                                >
                                > One of my earlier guesses was Konstrvrta which looked peculiarly like
                                > Å tvrtok or Thursday.
                                > He considered himself as a Slovak and when asked for his place of birth, he
                                > first said stvrtok, thought again and changed it to the Hungarian
                                > Csutortok, but the actual village was called Vagcsutortok at the time.
                                > So I bet it was overwritten because of this.
                                > Å tvrtok is a small village (pop 350) between Nove Mesto Nad Vahom and
                                > Trencin along the main route. Nove Mesto Nad Vahom has had a concentration
                                > of Moravkos over the years.
                                > It's also a confirmation for me that the alteration of the V to an F is
                                > common (my last name is Marafko from an earlier line of Moravkos) and
                                > happened in Serbia, Slovakia and Hungary-Romania.
                                >
                                > Probably was worth the $35 monthly Ancestry charge.
                                >
                                > Peter M.
                                >
                                >
                                > On 1 December 2012 00:52, John <johnqadam@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > **
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > >>> So I'm coming to the conclusion that the place disappeared or absorbed
                                > > and there is no surviving record of it. . . at the moment. I'll try and
                                > > look up his wife, Maria in Joko which apparently is Nyitra RC . . . Place
                                > > of Birth on Ellis Island Manuscript MORAVKO I'm getting Prietrž and
                                > > Osuské, so I still can't pinpoint the location. . . I'm guessing that you
                                > > are referring to Osuske, which is between Jablonica and Prietrz. <<<
                                > >
                                > > The 1910 map at http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/nyitra.jpg is devoid
                                > > of the necessary detail, south of Szenicz in the yellow area. However,
                                > > Korlatko is shown there. The current Podrobny Auto Atlas shows it as
                                > > Cerova. Further south along the same road is Prievaly (current name).
                                > >
                                > > Thus area is very sparsely populated but the facts seem to fit.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
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