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Re: [S-R] translating names from latin to Slovak

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  • htcstech
    ~ Lastly while on this subject; is anyone familiar with t being sustituted for c in early 1800 s church records. ~ Sure, especially with a z as your
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 13, 2012
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      ~ Lastly while on this subject; is anyone familiar with "t" being
      sustituted for "c" in early 1800's church records. ~
      Sure, especially with a z as your examples show: Tzar (Tsar) and Czar are
      both correct, but as you already know, derived from Caesar. The CZ is old
      Hungarian and not much used nowadays.
      KOCZICH as written is not Hungarian as it should be KOCZICS - a Serbian
      sounding name. Methinks that there is a stronger German/Slav influence
      there rather than Hungarian, reminding me of Gothic German script for some
      reason after your description of the crossed C.

      CUKOR (Sugar) can not be written as TSUKOR as the actual sound begins as a
      hard S and not a T. But you can transliterate it as a TS as long as you
      start the S with the tongue on the roof of the mouth with your lips ready
      to pronounce the vowel.
      Generally CS=CH so Church would be written as CSURCS.
      Another is CZARDAS (the dance) where the CZ is more like a CH than a TZ or
      TS, but that's because it is misspelt as it is actually CSARDAS in real
      Hungarian, and therefore follows the CS=CH rule, S for SH, SZ for S etc.
      Trying to explain ZS however is difficult but the example of Zsa Zsa Gabor
      will help if you already know her name.

      I have seen Tsigany written for Cigany by an English writer, but that is a
      Slav word 'Cigan' borrowed by the Hungarians (and initial sound based on
      the Byzantine 'Tsiganos' GK) - So the Slavs have the same sound 'C' as the
      Hungarians, maybe with a diacritical mark above.

      Hey, I didn't invent the language!

      Peter M.


      On 13 November 2012 18:28, <lkocik@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > hello
      >
      > I have some given names from church records [latin] and their A nglo
      > versions, that I 'm trying to convert to Slovak I realize there are web
      > sites that do this, but I've found conflicting data.
      >
      > I usually use a name as it appears in the record I'm tran scibing, but
      > I'd like to footnote the Slovak version of the name.
      >
      > Anywho, if anyone can tell me the Slovak versions of these names I would
      > be grateful;
      >
      > Peter...Joanna
      > [fem]...Ferdinand...Vincent...Mathias...Maria...Anna...Emeric...Anthony...V
      > endelin...Christina...Frances[fem]...Albert...L ester...Gregory...William.
      >
      > Also; about two surnames.....could anyone tell me which is more proper
      > for Slovak...Jurena or Jurenya.
      >
      > The other name is Vanek or Vanyek.
      >
      > I understand the Magyar addition of "z" and "s" but is the addition of
      > "y" legitimate Slovak?
      >
      > Lastly while on this subject; is anyone familiar with "t" being
      > sustituted for "c" in early 1800's church records.
      >
      > I've seen multiple instances of Kot zak for Koczak and Kotzich for
      > Koczich in Gbely [Zahorie region]. it almost looks as if the name was
      > written at first with the original "c" and then someone put a line through
      > the top of the "c" [like a European 7] making in into a "t". In some cases
      > it is a very distinct "t". The strange thing is I've only seen this with
      > the Koczak and Koczich names.
      >
      > Could this have something to do with the magyar pronounciation of the
      > hard "c' like "ts"?
      >
      >
      >
      > I know this subject may be more suited for Slovak-World but I don't feel
      > comfortable at that site anymore.
      >
      > Thank you
      >
      > Larry Kocik
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Carl
      Here is a link to a site that shows given names in different languages. Many of the ones you asked about are there. For example the English Christine is
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 13, 2012
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        Here is a link to a site that shows given names in different languages. Many of the ones you asked about are there. For example the English Christine is Kristina in Slovak.
        CK

        http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~scoconee/names.html

        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, lkocik@... wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > hello
        >
        >  I have some given names from church records [latin] and their A nglo versions,  that I 'm trying to convert to Slovak    I realize there are web sites that do this, but I've found conflicting data.
        >
        >  I usually use a name as it appears in the record I'm tran scibing, but I'd like to footnote the Slovak version of the name.
        >
        >  Anywho, if anyone can tell me the Slovak versions of these names I would be grateful;
        >
        > Peter...Joanna [fem]...Ferdinand...Vincent...Mathias...Maria...Anna...Emeric...Anthony...V endelin...Christina...Frances[fem]...Albert...L ester...Gregory...William.
        >
        >
        >
        >  Also; about two surnames.....could anyone tell me which is more proper for Slovak...Jurena or Jurenya.
        >
        >  The other name is Vanek or Vanyek.
        >
        >  I understand the Magyar addition of "z" and "s" but is the addition of "y" legitimate Slovak?
        >
        >
        >
        >  Lastly while on this subject; is anyone familiar with "t" being sustituted for "c" in early 1800's church records.
        >
        >    I've seen multiple instances of  Kot zak for Koczak and Kotzich for Koczich in Gbely [Zahorie region]. it almost looks as if the name was written at first with the original  "c" and then someone put a line through the top of the "c"  [like a European 7] making in into a "t". In some cases it is a very distinct "t".  The strange thing is I've only seen this with the Koczak and Koczich names.
        >
        >  Could this have something to do with the magyar pronounciation of the hard "c' like "ts"?
        >
        >  
        >
        >  I know this subject may be more suited for Slovak-World but I don't feel comfortable at that site anymore.
        >
        > Thank you
        >
        > Larry Kocik
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • William C. Wormuth
        I have responded directly because I had a chart prepared by Martin Votruba which is jpg. Z Bohom, Vilo ________________________________ From: Carl
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 13, 2012
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          I have responded directly because I had a chart prepared by Martin Votruba which is jpg.

          Z Bohom,

          Vilo




          ________________________________
          From: Carl <carl.kotlarchik@...>
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 11:56 AM
          Subject: [S-R] Re: translating names from latin to Slovak


           
          Here is a link to a site that shows given names in different languages. Many of the ones you asked about are there. For example the English Christine is Kristina in Slovak.
          CK

          http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~scoconee/names.html

          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, lkocik@... wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > hello
          >
          >  I have some given names from church records [latin] and their A nglo versions,  that I 'm trying to convert to Slovak    I realize there are web sites that do this, but I've found conflicting data.
          >
          >  I usually use a name as it appears in the record I'm tran scibing, but I'd like to footnote the Slovak version of the name.
          >
          >  Anywho, if anyone can tell me the Slovak versions of these names I would be grateful;
          >
          > Peter...Joanna [fem]...Ferdinand...Vincent...Mathias...Maria...Anna...Emeric...Anthony...V endelin...Christina...Frances[fem]...Albert...L ester...Gregory...William.
          >
          >
          >
          >  Also; about two surnames.....could anyone tell me which is more proper for Slovak...Jurena or Jurenya.
          >
          >  The other name is Vanek or Vanyek.
          >
          >  I understand the Magyar addition of "z" and "s" but is the addition of "y" legitimate Slovak?
          >
          >
          >
          >  Lastly while on this subject; is anyone familiar with "t" being sustituted for "c" in early 1800's church records.
          >
          >    I've seen multiple instances of  Kot zak for Koczak and Kotzich for Koczich in Gbely [Zahorie region]. it almost looks as if the name was written at first with the original  "c" and then someone put a line through the top of the "c"  [like a European 7] making in into a "t". In some cases it is a very distinct "t".  The strange thing is I've only seen this with the Koczak and Koczich names.
          >
          >  Could this have something to do with the magyar pronounciation of the hard "c' like "ts"?
          >
          >  
          >
          >  I know this subject may be more suited for Slovak-World but I don't feel comfortable at that site anymore.
          >
          > Thank you
          >
          > Larry Kocik
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • lkocik@comcast.net
          Thank you Carl.  Ironically your name wasn t on my list, but it s  one I ve wondered about.  Is the Slovak version Karol? Also is there a connection to the
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 13, 2012
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            Thank you Carl.

             Ironically your name wasn't on my list, but it's  one I've wondered about.

             Is the Slovak version Karol? Also is there a connection to the name Charles?I knew a Charles Kratky. When I found his naturalization papers he claimed his name to be Karol. I do know that some immigrants were confused on Anglo translations of their Slavic names.

               I 've seen "Carol" in the latin church records
            but not in my bloodline, so I've never had to deal with the translation. The name is in my extended tree, so I will one day be dealing with translating it.

             Thank you

            Larry


            ----- Original Message -----


            From: "Carl" <carl.kotlarchik@...>
            To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 9:56:05 AM
            Subject: [S-R] Re: translating names from latin to Slovak

            Here is a link to a site that shows given names in different languages.  Many of the ones you asked about are there.  For example the English Christine is Kristina in Slovak.
            CK

            http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~scoconee/names.html

            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, lkocik@... wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > hello
            >
            >  I have some given names from church records [latin] and their A nglo versions,  that I 'm trying to convert to Slovak    I realize there are web sites that do this, but I've found conflicting data.
            >
            >  I usually use a name as it appears in the record I'm tran scibing, but I'd like to footnote the Slovak version of the name.
            >
            >  Anywho, if anyone can tell me the Slovak versions of these names I would be grateful;
            >
            > Peter...Joanna [fem]...Ferdinand...Vincent...Mathias...Maria...Anna...Emeric...Anthony...V endelin...Christina...Frances[fem]...Albert...L ester...Gregory...William.
            >
            >
            >
            >  Also; about two surnames.....could anyone tell me which is more proper for Slovak...Jurena or Jurenya.
            >
            >  The other name is Vanek or Vanyek.
            >
            >  I understand the Magyar addition of "z" and "s" but is the addition of "y" legitimate Slovak?
            >
            >
            >
            >  Lastly while on this subject; is anyone familiar with "t" being sustituted for "c" in early 1800's church records.
            >
            >    I've seen multiple instances of  Kot zak for Koczak and Kotzich for Koczich in Gbely [Zahorie region]. it almost looks as if the name was written at first with the original  "c" and then someone put a line through the top of the "c"  [like a European 7] making in into a "t". In some cases it is a very distinct "t".  The strange thing is I've only seen this with the Koczak and Koczich names.
            >
            >  Could this have something to do with the magyar pronounciation of the hard "c' like "ts"?
            >
            >  
            >
            >  I know this subject may be more suited for Slovak-World but I don't feel comfortable at that site anymore.
            >
            > Thank you
            >
            > Larry Kocik
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Carl
            Yes, Carl or Karl is the German version of Charles. The Slovak version is usually written as Karol.
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 14, 2012
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              Yes, Carl or Karl is the German version of Charles. The Slovak version is usually written as Karol.

              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, lkocik@... wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > Thank you Carl.
              >
              >  Ironically your name wasn't on my list, but it's  one I've wondered about.
              >
              >  Is the Slovak version Karol? Also is there a connection to the name Charles?I knew a Charles Kratky. When I found his naturalization papers he claimed his name to be Karol. I do know that some immigrants were confused on Anglo translations of their Slavic names.
              >
              >    I 've seen "Carol" in the latin church records
              > but not in my bloodline, so I've never had to deal with the translation. The name is in my extended tree, so I will one day be dealing with translating it.
              >
              >  Thank you
              >
              > Larry
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              >
              >
              > From: "Carl" <carl.kotlarchik@...>
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 9:56:05 AM
              > Subject: [S-R] Re: translating names from latin to Slovak
              >
              > Here is a link to a site that shows given names in different languages.  Many of the ones you asked about are there.  For example the English Christine is Kristina in Slovak.
              > CK
              >
              > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~scoconee/names.html
              >
              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, lkocik@ wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > hello
              > >
              > >  I have some given names from church records [latin] and their A nglo versions,  that I 'm trying to convert to Slovak    I realize there are web sites that do this, but I've found conflicting data.
              > >
              > >  I usually use a name as it appears in the record I'm tran scibing, but I'd like to footnote the Slovak version of the name.
              > >
              > >  Anywho, if anyone can tell me the Slovak versions of these names I would be grateful;
              > >
              > > Peter...Joanna [fem]...Ferdinand...Vincent...Mathias...Maria...Anna...Emeric...Anthony...V endelin...Christina...Frances[fem]...Albert...L ester...Gregory...William.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >  Also; about two surnames.....could anyone tell me which is more proper for Slovak...Jurena or Jurenya.
              > >
              > >  The other name is Vanek or Vanyek.
              > >
              > >  I understand the Magyar addition of "z" and "s" but is the addition of "y" legitimate Slovak?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >  Lastly while on this subject; is anyone familiar with "t" being sustituted for "c" in early 1800's church records.
              > >
              > >    I've seen multiple instances of  Kot zak for Koczak and Kotzich for Koczich in Gbely [Zahorie region]. it almost looks as if the name was written at first with the original  "c" and then someone put a line through the top of the "c"  [like a European 7] making in into a "t". In some cases it is a very distinct "t".  The strange thing is I've only seen this with the Koczak and Koczich names.
              > >
              > >  Could this have something to do with the magyar pronounciation of the hard "c' like "ts"?
              > >
              > >  
              > >
              > >  I know this subject may be more suited for Slovak-World but I don't feel comfortable at that site anymore.
              > >
              > > Thank you
              > >
              > > Larry Kocik
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
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