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Re: Looking for info on HARASIN or DZURAK in [JANOVCE], HUMENNE

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  • John
    If Greek Catholic, the church records are found at:
    Message 1 of 16 , Oct 17, 2012
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      If Greek Catholic, the church records are found at:
      https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Frecords%2Fwaypoint%2FMMBR-CLK%3An1777693520%3Fcc%3D1554443


      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@...> wrote:
      >
      > >>> I am trying to find info on my maternal grandfathers' family. . . he was born in Slovakia and brought here as a young child . . .That was all the family he ever knew until 1930 (when he was about 30 years old) when a young man showed up and said that he was his biological brother. He had a baptismal certificate with him that he said was my grandfathers' . . . Anyway, it had the child's' name, Joseph, on it and the mother name was listed as Elizabeth DZURAK. Apparently no father was listed . The location was [JANOVCE], HUMENNE. . . . a Stefan HARASIN from Czechoslovakia came thru Ellis Island in 1930. . . . Recently I found an Ellis Island record of ERZEBETH HARASIN arriving in June 1906 with 2 sons. Jozsef was listed as 4 years old. My grandfather was born in July 1901. The other son was Janos and was 1 year and 8 months. . . . I believe that Jozsef was my grandfather. . . Stephen (Stefan Harasin) told my grandfather that there were other siblings including a sister back in Slovakia. <<<
      >
      > Partial answer:
      >
      > OLD NAMES of the village(town):
      > 1773 Jankocz, Jankowcse [!], 1786 Jankócz, Jankowze, 1808 Jankócz, Jankowce, 1863–1902 Jankóc, 1907–1913 Jánosvölgye, 1920– Jankovce
      >
      > RC church records are found at:
      > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12343-271619-66?cc=1554443&wc=MMBR-XJ1:1705818697#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Frecords%2Fwaypoint%2FMMBR-8SN%3An454199936%3Fcc%3D1554443
      >
      > RC churvh records go to 1895. Jozsef won't be there but mother Erzsebet should be.
      >
      > The 1869 Hungarian Census (Zemplen Megye = county) is available on film but not yet online for Jankovce.
      >
    • John
      ... What was the religion? The church records may be online. RC to 1895, GC more recent. As well, the 1869 Hungarian Census pre-dates Jozsef Dzurak but could
      Message 2 of 16 , Oct 17, 2012
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        >>> He had a baptismal certificate with him that he said was my grandfathers'.  I was given a translation of the baptismal certificate and I am waiting for a copy of the original. Anyway, it had the child's' name, Joseph, on it and the mother name was listed as Elizabeth DZURAK. Apparently no father was listed . The location was [JANOVCE], HUMENNE. <<<

        What was the religion? The church records may be online.
        RC to 1895, GC more recent.

        As well, the 1869 Hungarian Census pre-dates Jozsef Dzurak but could tell you a lot about the other members of the family. Film can be ordered online for research at your nearest LDS Family History Center (FHC).

        Jakusócz (Jakušovce) -- Jalova (Jalová) -- Jankócz (Jankovce) -- Jeszenócz (Jasenovce) -- Jeszenő (Jasenov) -- Józseffalva (Újpatak=Sárospatak) -- Józsefvölgy (Juskova Vol̓a) -- Kalenó (Kalinov) -- Kaponya (Kapoňa) Film #722712
      • Eileen Williams
        John, Thank you so much for your responses. At least now I have some idea of how and where to start. Eileen From: John To:
        Message 3 of 16 , Oct 17, 2012
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          John,
          Thank you so much for your responses. At least now I have some idea of how and where to start.
          Eileen


          From: John <johnqadam@...>
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 7:57 PM
          Subject: [S-R] Re: Looking for info on HARASIN or DZURAK in JANOVCE, HUMENNE

           
          >>> He had a baptismal certificate with him that he said was my grandfathers'.  I was given a translation of the baptismal certificate and I am waiting for a copy of the original. Anyway, it had the child's' name, Joseph, on it and the mother name was listed as Elizabeth DZURAK. Apparently no father was listed . The location was [JANOVCE], HUMENNE. <<<

          What was the religion? The church records may be online.
          RC to 1895, GC more recent.

          As well, the 1869 Hungarian Census pre-dates Jozsef Dzurak but could tell you a lot about the other members of the family. Film can be ordered online for research at your nearest LDS Family History Center (FHC).

          Jakusócz (Jakušovce) -- Jalova (Jalová) -- Jankócz (Jankovce) -- Jeszenócz (Jasenovce) -- Jeszenő (Jasenov) -- Józseffalva (Újpatak=Sárospatak) -- Józsefvölgy (Juskova Vol̓a) -- Kalenó (Kalinov) -- Kaponya (Kapoňa) Film #722712




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • t.salony
          ... Eileen, Had you been able to look at the actual passenger manifest? You say it says she was joining her husband in Pennsylvania, so it seems to me you DID
          Message 4 of 16 , Oct 17, 2012
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            > Recently I found an Ellis Island record of ERZEBETH HARASIN arriving in June 1906 with 2 sons. Jozsef was listed as 4 years old. My grandfather was born in July 1901. The other son was Janos and was 1 year and 8 months. I had never before heard of Janos. The record said that Erzebeth was joining her husband in Pennsylvania.  I believe that Jozsef was my grandfather. I was unable to find any census records for 1910 for the family so I am speculating that they had returned to Slovakia shortly after Stefan was born.
            >

            Eileen,

            Had you been able to look at the actual passenger manifest? You say it says she was joining her husband in Pennsylvania, so it seems to me you DID see the manifest, since the Ellis Island "Passenger Record" doesn't include destination? So I have a few comments/questions:

            - How the heck did you FIND the passenger manifest??? ;) Can't admit how long it took me , since at least 2 pages of the June 6, 1906 Arrival of the Carpathia are reversed on the Ellis Island site. By searching for "GUNDA, Maria", I was able to find "HARASIN,?_______?" (some idiot wrote his "correction" directly over the original given name; MAYBE it says "Erzebeth".), Joszef and Janos. Here's the link (sorry I can't copy).
            http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup_weif_5a.asp?src=%2Fcgi-bin%2Ftif2gif.exe%3FT%3D\\\\192.168.100.11\\IMAGES\\T715-0722\\T715-07220444.TIF%26S%3D.5&pID=105485100077&name=Maria%26nbsp%3BGonda&doa=Jun+06%2C+1906&port=Fiume&line=0017

            - I have no idea what the Last Residence says, but she(even thought the manifest mistakenly has a ditto indicating M for male) is clearly going the her husband, HARASIN, Mihaly in Lilly (Cambria County), Pa.

            - Unable to find him using the Steven Morris site, BUT Ancestry shows him:

            New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
            Name: Milealy Harasin
            Arrival Date: 27 Feb 1905
            Birth Year: abt 1880
            Age: 25
            Gender: Male
            Ethnicity/Race-
            /Nationality: Slovakian
            Port of departure: Antwerp, Belgium
            Port of arrival: New York, New York
            Ship Name: Kroonland
            Search Ship Database:

            Source Citation: Year: 1905; ; Microfilm Serial: T715; Microfilm Roll: T715_538; Line: 13; ; Page Number: 66.

            Source Information:
            Ancestry.com. New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2010.
            -------------------------------
            Mihaly is leaving "Jankocz" and going to his brother-in-law (someone else may be able to read the name, I can't) in Lilly,Pa Cambria County !

            Not sure if any of this helps.

            TOM
          • John
            ... Congratulations on finding what I could not. She is Mihalyne = wife of Mihaly, age 23 DOB = 1883 from Janosvolge. Marriage is bef. 1902. Mihaly DOB 1879.
            Message 5 of 16 , Oct 18, 2012
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              >>> How the heck did you FIND the passenger manifest??? ;) Can't admit how long it took me , since at least 2 pages of the June 6, 1906 Arrival of the Carpathia are reversed on the Ellis Island site. By searching for "GUNDA, Maria", I was able to find "HARASIN,?_______?" (some idiot wrote his "correction" directly over the original given name; MAYBE it says "Erzebeth".), Joszef and Janos. Here's the link (sorry I can't copy).
              > http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup_weif_5a.asp?src=%2Fcgi-bin%2Ftif2gif.exe%3FT%3D\\\\192.168.100.11\\IMAGES\\T715-0722\\T715-07220444.TIF%26S%3D.5&pID=105485100077&name=Maria%26nbsp%3BGonda&doa=Jun+06%2C+1906&port=Fiume&line=0017
              >
              > - I have no idea what the Last Residence says, but she(even thought the manifest mistakenly has a ditto indicating M for male) is clearly going the her husband, HARASIN, Mihaly in Lilly (Cambria County), Pa.
              >
              > - Unable to find him using the Steven Morris site, BUT Ancestry shows him:
              >
              > New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
              > Name: Milealy Harasin
              > Arrival Date: 27 Feb 1905
              > Birth Year: abt 1880
              > Age: 25
              > Gender: Male
              > Ethnicity/Race-
              > /Nationality: Slovakian
              > Port of departure: Antwerp, Belgium
              > Port of arrival: New York, New York
              > Ship Name: Kroonland
              > Search Ship Database:
              >
              > Source Citation: Year: 1905; ; Microfilm Serial: T715; Microfilm Roll: T715_538; Line: 13; ; Page Number: 66.
              >
              > Source Information:
              > Ancestry.com. New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2010.
              > -------------------------------
              > Mihaly is leaving "Jankocz" and going to his brother-in-law (someone else may be able to read the name, I can't) in Lilly,Pa Cambria County !<<<

              Congratulations on finding what I could not.

              She is Mihalyne = wife of Mihaly, age 23 DOB = 1883 from Janosvolge. Marriage is bef. 1902.

              Mihaly DOB 1879.

              Given your excellent sleuthing, I found Mihaly on Ellis Island using the Morse front end.

              Nelasan, Mihaly Jankocz 25 1880 1905

              With the help of Cisarik's web site, the BIL surname is PORVAZNIK. Using Cisarik resources, I would guess that the other relevant family surname is DZURENKO.

              Given what we now know, it is simply a matter of researching the relevant church records. Both RC and GC ONLINE references for Jankovce have previously been given. The 1869 Hungarian Census is available on film.

              Eileen, happy squinting.
            • John
              ... Another step along the path . . . RC church records are found at: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12343-271619-66?cc=1554443&wc=MMBR-
              Message 6 of 16 , Oct 18, 2012
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                >>> the mother name was listed as Elizabeth DZURAK. Apparently no father was listed . The location was [JANOVCE], HUMENNE. <<<

                Another step along the path . . .

                RC church records are found at:
                https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12343-271619-66?cc=1554443&wc=MMBR-\
                XJ1:1705818697#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Frecords%2Fwaypoint%2FMMBR-8S\
                N%3An454199936%3Fcc%3D1554443

                • Slovakia, Church and Synagogue Books, 1592-1910
                • Roman Catholic (Rímsko-katolícká cirkev)
                • Humenné
                • Jankovce
                • Baptisms (Krsty) 1806-183...Deaths (Úmrtia) 1841-1849
                • PAGE 422 of 557

                24 December 1881
                Born: Erzsebeth DZURAK, Jankovce 9, RC
                Father: Andras DZURAK
                Mother: Erzsebeth IVANOV

                Child Mihaly born 30 Dec 1878 to same parents on page 412. House Jankovce 11.

                Mihaly HARASIN not found in Jankovce RC births 1876-1881. Perhaps GC.
              • John
                Mihaly HARASIN, DOB 1879-1880, not found in RC or GC birth records for Jankovce. Ellis Island info suggests that he was from the village. We need another clue.
                Message 7 of 16 , Oct 18, 2012
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                  Mihaly HARASIN, DOB 1879-1880, not found in RC or GC birth records for Jankovce. Ellis Island info suggests that he was from the village.

                  We need another clue.
                • Eileen Williams
                  Thanks to all of you who have been so helpful especially John. I cannot believe what you have found. I do have some questions about some of the info. At first
                  Message 8 of 16 , Oct 18, 2012
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                    Thanks to all of you who have been so helpful especially John. I cannot believe what you have found.
                    I do have some questions about some of the info. At first I thought that all of my research was wrong when it was found that Erzebeth and her children were going to Cambria County. I couldn't figure out how they would have ended up in Luzerne County a few years later. I realized then that Cambria County is in the same area of PA as Allegheny County where Stefan Harasin (Harrison) eventually moved to. We always wondered why he went out there but he probably had other relatives of his fathers' out there. 
                    This is what I don't understand..  (the bold type) any explanation or insight would be appreciated.


                    New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
                    > Name: Milealy Harasin
                    > Arrival Date: 27 Feb 1905
                    > Birth Year: abt 1880
                    > Age: 25
                    > Gender: Male
                    > Ethnicity/Race-
                    > /Nationality: Slovakian

                    Mihaly is leaving "Jankocz" and going to his brother-in-law (someone else may be able to read the name, I can't) in Lilly,Pa Cambria County !<<<
                    She is Mihalyne = wife of Mihaly, age 23 DOB = 1883 from Janosvolge. Marriage is bef. 1902.

                    Mihaly DOB 1879.

                    Given your excellent sleuthing, I found Mihaly on Ellis Island using the Morse front end.

                    Nelasan, Mihaly Jankocz 25 1880 1905

                    With the help of Cisarik's web site, the BIL surname is PORVAZNIK. Using Cisarik resources, I would guess that the other relevant family surname is DZURENKO.

                    Given what we now know, it is simply a matter of researching the relevant church records. Both RC and GC ONLINE references for Jankovce have previously been given. The 1869 Hungarian Census is available on film.

                    Who is Nelasan?  Mihaly's name is Harasin. 
                    What is the "Morse Front End"?

                    What is the Cisarik web site? 

                    I am mostly familiar with Ancestry and so the wealth of information that you folks have pointed me toward is amazing.  Thank you so much! So far I have learned more than I ever thought that I would.

                    Eileen.


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • John
                    ... NELASAN is the transciption error of HARASIN on the Ellis Island web site. ELLIS ISLAND LISTINGS I use the Morse front end, Gold Form, for researching
                    Message 9 of 16 , Oct 18, 2012
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                      >>>Given your excellent sleuthing, I found Mihaly on Ellis Island using the Morse front end.
                      >
                      > Nelasan, Mihaly Jankocz 25 1880 1905
                      >
                      > With the help of Cisarik's web site, the BIL surname is PORVAZNIK. Using Cisarik resources, I would guess that the other relevant family surname is DZURENKO. <<<

                      >>> Who is Nelasan?  Mihaly's name is Harasin. 
                      >>> What is the "Morse Front End"?
                      >
                      >>> What is the Cisarik web site? 

                      NELASAN is the transciption error of HARASIN on the Ellis Island web site.

                      ELLIS ISLAND LISTINGS
                      I use the Morse front end, Gold Form, for researching Ellis Island entries. http://www.stevemorse.org/

                      You can use just a few letters for the name or village and check off several language choices, eg: Hungarian, Slovak, Ruthenian. Be aware that transcription errors abound and so you should always look at the manifest, which often has two pages.

                      http://www.cisarik.com/ for loads of genealogy info. Look up your village to see and learn.
                    • htcstech
                      I ve only glanced at the information on this and the parallel thread, so I haven t been following it closely, but if the MIHALYNE find is accurate, then that
                      Message 10 of 16 , Oct 18, 2012
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                        I've only glanced at the information on this and the parallel thread, so I
                        haven't been following it closely, but if the MIHALYNE find is accurate,
                        then that is (or should be by convention) the Hungarian feminine form of
                        the Surname or Family name and not a First name.
                        That's like saying Mrs John Smith - quite acceptable in English usage but
                        I've never seen the same form in Hungarian or Slovak (~ova ending). The
                        chances that it was used once for Ellis Island/ship registrations is
                        possible though but why and by whom?

                        The Cisarik site http://www.cisarik.com/ is very useful as it lists the
                        villages and towns, 1715 tax records and names from the telephone book as
                        well as a handy map of other towns within the vicinity of your 'home' town.

                        Harasin can be found here on cisarik's site:

                        https://www.google.com/search?as_sitesearch=www.cisarik.com&as_q=Harasin&submit=Search#q=Harasin+site:www.cisarik.com&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvns&ei=2b2AUKSQG6PsiAfqtoHIAQ&start=0&sa=N&filter=0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=d122c11eddab7aa&bpcl=35466521&biw=1400&bih=935


                        or just type in Harasin in the top field on Cisarik's site that says 'Text"
                        This list of towns and names is reasonably current (2005).

                        A 'Front End' is what you, the researcher sees and operates when searching
                        for data in a database. Ancestry has a front end that uses Familysearch's
                        data, and Familysearch has it's own front end. Both operate on the same
                        data, but one may be easier to use, or in your language or has different
                        options. It's just a different window on the same thing.

                        Also Bold/Italic/Underline and font choices or uploading images are not
                        possible in Yahoo groups.

                        Peter M.

                        On 19 October 2012 09:58, Eileen Williams <emsmom95@...> wrote:

                        > **
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Thanks to all of you who have been so helpful especially John. I cannot
                        > believe what you have found.
                        > I do have some questions about some of the info. At first I thought that
                        > all of my research was wrong when it was found that Erzebeth and her
                        > children were going to Cambria County. I couldn't figure out how they would
                        > have ended up in Luzerne County a few years later. I realized then that
                        > Cambria County is in the same area of PA as Allegheny County where Stefan
                        > Harasin (Harrison) eventually moved to. We always wondered why he went out
                        > there but he probably had other relatives of his fathers' out there.
                        > This is what I don't understand.. (the bold type) any explanation or
                        > insight would be appreciated.
                        >
                        >
                        > >
                        > New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
                        > > Name: Milealy Harasin
                        > > Arrival Date: 27 Feb 1905
                        > > Birth Year: abt 1880
                        > > Age: 25
                        > > Gender: Male
                        > > Ethnicity/Race-
                        > > /Nationality: Slovakian
                        >
                        > Mihaly is leaving "Jankocz" and going to his brother-in-law (someone else
                        > may be able to read the name, I can't) in Lilly,Pa Cambria County !<<<
                        > She is Mihalyne = wife of Mihaly, age 23 DOB = 1883 from Janosvolge.
                        > Marriage is bef. 1902.
                        >
                        > Mihaly DOB 1879.
                        >
                        > Given your excellent sleuthing, I found Mihaly on Ellis Island using the
                        > Morse front end.
                        >
                        > Nelasan, Mihaly Jankocz 25 1880 1905
                        >
                        > With the help of Cisarik's web site, the BIL surname is PORVAZNIK. Using
                        > Cisarik resources, I would guess that the other relevant family surname is
                        > DZURENKO.
                        >
                        > Given what we now know, it is simply a matter of researching the relevant
                        > church records. Both RC and GC ONLINE references for Jankovce have
                        > previously been given. The 1869 Hungarian Census is available on film.
                        >
                        > Who is Nelasan? Mihaly's name is Harasin.
                        > What is the "Morse Front End"?
                        >
                        > What is the Cisarik web site?
                        >
                        > I am mostly familiar with Ancestry and so the wealth of information that
                        > you folks have pointed me toward is amazing. Thank you so much! So far I
                        > have learned more than I ever thought that I would.
                        >
                        > Eileen.
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Elaine Powell
                        In 1908, when my great grandmother came to the US with several of her children, she was also listed as Janosne (Mrs. John) Kolarcsik. My guess was that with
                        Message 11 of 16 , Oct 18, 2012
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                          In 1908, when my great grandmother came to the US with several of her children, she was also listed as "Janosne" (Mrs. John) Kolarcsik.

                          My guess was that with the Magyarization of the church records in the last half of the 1800s, it became more common for Slovaks to use Hungarian forms of address in other "formal" records like ship passenger lists.

                          On Oct 18, 2012, at 9:52 PM, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:

                          > I've only glanced at the information on this and the parallel thread, so I
                          > haven't been following it closely, but if the MIHALYNE find is accurate,
                          > then that is (or should be by convention) the Hungarian feminine form of
                          > the Surname or Family name and not a First name.
                          > That's like saying Mrs John Smith - quite acceptable in English usage but
                          > I've never seen the same form in Hungarian or Slovak (~ova ending). The
                          > chances that it was used once for Ellis Island/ship registrations is
                          > possible though but why and by whom?
                          >
                          > The Cisarik site http://www.cisarik.com/ is very useful as it lists the
                          > villages and towns, 1715 tax records and names from the telephone book as
                          > well as a handy map of other towns within the vicinity of your 'home' town.
                          >
                          > Harasin can be found here on cisarik's site:
                          >
                          > https://www.google.com/search?as_sitesearch=www.cisarik.com&as_q=Harasin&submit=Search#q=Harasin+site:www.cisarik.com&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvns&ei=2b2AUKSQG6PsiAfqtoHIAQ&start=0&sa=N&filter=0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=d122c11eddab7aa&bpcl=35466521&biw=1400&bih=935
                          >
                          > or just type in Harasin in the top field on Cisarik's site that says 'Text"
                          > This list of towns and names is reasonably current (2005).
                          >
                          > A 'Front End' is what you, the researcher sees and operates when searching
                          > for data in a database. Ancestry has a front end that uses Familysearch's
                          > data, and Familysearch has it's own front end. Both operate on the same
                          > data, but one may be easier to use, or in your language or has different
                          > options. It's just a different window on the same thing.
                          >
                          > Also Bold/Italic/Underline and font choices or uploading images are not
                          > possible in Yahoo groups.
                          >
                          > Peter M.
                          >
                          > On 19 October 2012 09:58, Eileen Williams <emsmom95@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > **
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Thanks to all of you who have been so helpful especially John. I cannot
                          > > believe what you have found.
                          > > I do have some questions about some of the info. At first I thought that
                          > > all of my research was wrong when it was found that Erzebeth and her
                          > > children were going to Cambria County. I couldn't figure out how they would
                          > > have ended up in Luzerne County a few years later. I realized then that
                          > > Cambria County is in the same area of PA as Allegheny County where Stefan
                          > > Harasin (Harrison) eventually moved to. We always wondered why he went out
                          > > there but he probably had other relatives of his fathers' out there.
                          > > This is what I don't understand.. (the bold type) any explanation or
                          > > insight would be appreciated.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > >
                          > > New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
                          > > > Name: Milealy Harasin
                          > > > Arrival Date: 27 Feb 1905
                          > > > Birth Year: abt 1880
                          > > > Age: 25
                          > > > Gender: Male
                          > > > Ethnicity/Race-
                          > > > /Nationality: Slovakian
                          > >
                          > > Mihaly is leaving "Jankocz" and going to his brother-in-law (someone else
                          > > may be able to read the name, I can't) in Lilly,Pa Cambria County !<<<
                          > > She is Mihalyne = wife of Mihaly, age 23 DOB = 1883 from Janosvolge.
                          > > Marriage is bef. 1902.
                          > >
                          > > Mihaly DOB 1879.
                          > >
                          > > Given your excellent sleuthing, I found Mihaly on Ellis Island using the
                          > > Morse front end.
                          > >
                          > > Nelasan, Mihaly Jankocz 25 1880 1905
                          > >
                          > > With the help of Cisarik's web site, the BIL surname is PORVAZNIK. Using
                          > > Cisarik resources, I would guess that the other relevant family surname is
                          > > DZURENKO.
                          > >
                          > > Given what we now know, it is simply a matter of researching the relevant
                          > > church records. Both RC and GC ONLINE references for Jankovce have
                          > > previously been given. The 1869 Hungarian Census is available on film.
                          > >
                          > > Who is Nelasan? Mihaly's name is Harasin.
                          > > What is the "Morse Front End"?
                          > >
                          > > What is the Cisarik web site?
                          > >
                          > > I am mostly familiar with Ancestry and so the wealth of information that
                          > > you folks have pointed me toward is amazing. Thank you so much! So far I
                          > > have learned more than I ever thought that I would.
                          > >
                          > > Eileen.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
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                        • John
                          Eileen: Another small step . . . perhaps. If we are to believe that Mihaly HARASIN was going to his BIL in Lilly, PA, in 1905, then it follows that his
                          Message 12 of 16 , Oct 19, 2012
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                            Eileen:

                            Another small step . . . perhaps.

                            If we are to believe that Mihaly HARASIN was going to his BIL in Lilly, PA, in 1905, then it follows that his sister, who arrived in 1901 with two children, is Erzsebeth PORVAZNIK DOB 1865-66. The children are Andras DOB 1890-1891 and Mihaly DOB 1896 in USA.

                            Located the marriage of Erzsebet . . .
                            https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12344-35714-28?cc=1554443&wc=MMBR-XJT:n585643138
                            Slovakia, Church and Synagogue Books, 1592-1910

                            Roman Catholic (Rímsko-katolícká cirkev)
                            Humenné
                            Jankovce
                            Baptisms, marriages, deat...elstvá, úmrtia) 1886-1895
                            Page 40 of 151

                            4 Feb 1889
                            Groom: Mihaly Porvasznyik, RC, Jankovce 9, age 23. DOB 1865-1866
                            Father: Janos Porvasznyik
                            Mother: Anna Suhta

                            Bride: Erzsebeth Dzurak, RC, Jankovce 12, age 28. DOB 1860-1864 from different sources.
                            Father: Mihaly Dzurak
                            Mother: Erzsebeth Murnyik

                            Mihaly arrived USA in 1898 and is listed on Ellis Island as:
                            Porvaznik, Mihaly Yankocz 32 1866 1898
                            He had been in USA 1886-1895. He returned to Jankovce to marry in 1889. Andras PORVASZNYIK born 1889-1891. Erzsebeth went to USA abt 1895-1896 where son Mihaly was born in USA in 1896.

                            But wait. How can Erzsebeth DZURAK-PORVASZNYIK (b 1860-64) be the sister of Mihaly HARASIN (B 1879-1880)? Why does HARASIN not appear in Jankovce church records? How are the two instances of Erzebeth DZURAK related?

                            The mystery lingers on.
                          • Eileen Williams
                            John,   I apologize for the delayed response. No internet access for 4 days!   Ok now I am really confused. The dates and names all seem to fit but... 2
                            Message 13 of 16 , Oct 23, 2012
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                              John,
                               
                              I apologize for the delayed response. No internet access for 4 days!
                               
                              Ok now I am really confused. The dates and names all seem to fit but... 2 Erzsebeth Dzuraks? Have no idea which way to go with that!. Your research has been amazing! You have found more in a few days than I have in 6 months.  Any suggestions as to where I should start looking next?  Unfortunately there are no living relatives that can give me any information. I have been trying to locate some of Stefan Harasin's family but so far no luck. I remember him visiting my grandparents when I was a child but I don't know if he had any children.
                              If you haven't any ideas as to what direction I should take,  no problem. Thanks so much for all of your help.
                              Eileen

                              From: John <johnqadam@...>
                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 12:12 PM
                              Subject: [S-R] Re: Looking for info on HARASIN or DZURAK in JANOVCE, HUMENNE

                               
                              Eileen: Another small step . . . perhaps. If we are to believe that Mihaly HARASIN was going to his BIL in Lilly, PA, in 1905, then it follows that his sister, who arrived in 1901 with two children, is Erzsebeth PORVAZNIK DOB 1865-66. The children are Andras DOB 1890-1891 and Mihaly DOB 1896 in USA. Located the marriage of Erzsebet . . .https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12344-35714-28?cc=1554443&wc=MMBR-XJT:n585643138 Slovakia, Church and Synagogue Books, 1592-1910 Roman Catholic (Rímsko-katolícká cirkev) Humenné Jankovce Baptisms, marriages, deat...elstvá, úmrtia) 1886-1895 Page 40 of 151 4 Feb 1889 Groom: Mihaly Porvasznyik, RC, Jankovce 9, age 23. DOB 1865-1866 Father: Janos Porvasznyik Mother: Anna Suhta Bride: Erzsebeth Dzurak, RC, Jankovce 12, age 28. DOB 1860-1864 from different sources. Father: Mihaly Dzurak Mother: Erzsebeth Murnyik Mihaly arrived USA in 1898 and is listed on Ellis Island as: Porvaznik, Mihaly Yankocz 32 1866
                              1898 He had been in USA 1886-1895. He returned to Jankovce to marry in 1889. Andras PORVASZNYIK born 1889-1891. Erzsebeth went to USA abt 1895-1896 where son Mihaly was born in USA in 1896. But wait. How can Erzsebeth DZURAK-PORVASZNYIK (b 1860-64) be the sister of Mihaly HARASIN (B 1879-1880)? Why does HARASIN not appear in Jankovce church records? How are the two instances of Erzebeth DZURAK related? The mystery lingers on.


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                            • John
                              ... Yup. You need to check every page in the church records, going from clue to clue. Also the 1869 Hungarian Census. If you have a birth, locate the marriage
                              Message 14 of 16 , Oct 24, 2012
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                                >>> Ok now I am really confused. The dates and names all seem to fit but... 2 Erzsebeth Dzuraks? Have no idea which way to go with that!. <<<

                                Yup. You need to check every page in the church records, going from clue to clue. Also the 1869 Hungarian Census.

                                If you have a birth, locate the marriage a year or two before. Then the birth of the parents. In my case, it has taken 17 years -- so far.

                                A few assumptions:
                                1) The end of the known world was two villages away.
                                2) Marriages took place at age 20 +- a couple of years.
                                3) The marriage was in the BRIDE'S parish.
                                4) The children are in the GROOM'S parish.

                                It helps greatly to create an index of your church records and include digital page references so you can zoom back and forth through the film. An example follows.

                                Roman Catholic parish registers of baptisms, marriages and deaths for Žbince, Slovakia; formerly Nagycséb, Zemplén, Hungary.

                                https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11588-81977-10?cc=1554443&wc=MMBR-NZR:n1892225556

                                Inv. č. 1376
                                Krsty 1789-1815 â€"
                                Úmrtia 1789-1815 â€"
                                Manželstvá 1789-1813 â€"

                                Inv. č. 1377 to page 286
                                Krsty 1815-1843 â€"
                                Manželstvá 1813-1843 â€" from page 152 to 163
                                Úmrtia 1813-1835 â€" from page 164 to page 187
                                MieÅ¡ané manželstvá 1807-1823 â€" from page 188

                                Inv. č. 1378 from page 287
                                Krsty 1844-1849 -

                                Inv. č. 1378 (pokrač.) new digital section 342 pages
                                Krsty 1849-1895 â€"to page 128
                                Manželstvá 1844-1906 â€" from page 129
                                Úmrtia 1844-1874 â€"
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