Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [S-R] Given Names

Expand Messages
  • James Soltis
    My paternal grandparents claimed to be Slovak, spoke Slovak. However, they were born in Szepes Province of Hungary which became Galicia Province of Austria,
    Message 1 of 31 , Sep 21, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      My paternal grandparents claimed to be Slovak, spoke Slovak. However, they were
      born in Szepes Province of Hungary which became Galicia Province of Austria,
      which is now Molopolskie Province of Poland today.  My grandfather's
      Naturalization papers claim he was Slovak but showed he was from Austria.  His
      cousin from the same village claimed to be Slovak but his Naturalization papers
      showed him from Hungary. The only difference is my grandfather was an illiterate
      farmer whereas his cousin had some schooling, what would be considered knowings
      his letters and numbers. It appears that schooling could have a big impact as to
      how one considers oneself ethnically.  Jan is a common name in Poland.  I wonder
      what the Anglicized name are for Palkorina, Kola, and Boleris which I gained
      from the 1869 Hungarian Census from my ancestry's house.

      Jim S 
       

      ________________________________

      From: htcstech <htcstech@...>
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thu, September 20, 2012 10:27:00 PM
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Given Names

      The parent post highlights an aspect and perspective of ethnicity
      throughout the genealogical time range this group is looking at.
      For example, my family were Slovaks that partially assimilated into
      Hungarian culture and worked for the big boss (Esterhazy) for centuries,
      joined up with the Hungarian armies and were in the local council and
      foremen on his lands. So they were a Slovak ethnic minority in a
      predominantly Hungarian region. Then, after 1919 and 1946 (Benes Decree),
      they were still ethnic Slovaks in Czechoslovakia. Nowadays because they
      live in an ethnic Hungarian town, they are classified as Hungarian, speak
      both languages fluently and work in Slovak and Hungarian business.
      Strangely (I've still got to wrap my head around this one), they don't see
      a big difference between being a Slovak-Magyar or a Magyar-Slovak.
      Apparently the distinction is not that important to them. Going with the
      flow as some say. The bi-lingual nature and the business environment
      probably dictates this. The ethnic borders and geographical borders vary
      and so it is not at all surprising that Slovaks used Hungarian Christian
      names even in official documentation. Now I know that is a generalization,
      yet as a rule of thumb, the further south and west you go, the more you'll
      see this. I bet that even if a family stated they were Slovak, they
      probably spoke and interacted with Hungarians as they were the government
      of the time. The distinction between Slovak and Hungarian in these areas
      became very fuzzy as the Czech government wanted to rid their country of
      Germans (over 3 million!) and Hungarians after WWII. The exact same thing
      happened to multiple Slovak families where many were deported in 1946,
      sometimes by choice or by selection.

      Looking to the present, we christen our children with Anglicized names:
      John for Jan or Alex for Sandor because we live under English speaking
      governments. There would of been a similar trend at the time in old Hungary.

      I don't know how relevant this is as the request was for Slovak versions,
      but Istvan (pron: Ishtvan) has a nickname, being 'Pista' or pron: 'Pish~ta'
      As far as I know there is no 'Jan' in Hungarian but there is a Janni
      (pron:Yonni) as short for Janos. Also Ferko is short for Ference in both
      languages.
      Ilona is Ica (pron: Etsa or Itsa), Veronika ~Vera, Jozsef ~ Jozsi. There
      may be similarities in Slovak.

      Peter M.

      On 21 September 2012 05:22, Janet Kozlay <kozlay@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > Prior to 1848-9 most names are recorded with their Latin equivalents,
      > since Latin was the official language; after that date they will usually be
      > recorded with their Hungarian equivalents.
      >
      > The Hungarian forms of the names on your list are (without their
      > diacritical marks):
      >
      > Erzsebet
      >
      > Andras
      >
      > Janos
      >
      > Maria
      >
      > Veronika
      >
      > Istvan
      >
      > Ilona
      >
      > Mihaly
      >
      > Anna
      >
      > Jozsef
      >
      > The Slovak forms are:
      >
      > Alzbeta
      >
      > Andrej or Ondrej
      >
      > Jan
      >
      > Maria
      >
      > Veronika
      >
      > Stefan
      >
      > Elena or Helena
      >
      > Michal
      >
      > Anna
      >
      > Jozef or Josef
      >
      > Hope you find this useful.
      >
      > Janet
      >
      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
      > On Behalf Of Eileen Williams
      > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:16 PM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Given Names
      >
      > Ok, now I'm confused. The Ellis Island passenger info for my grandfathers,
      > family has his name as Jozsef and his mother as Erzebeth and I know they
      > were Slovak. It also has their ethnicity as Slovak but their place of
      > residence as Hungary. A younger brother is listed as Janos. What is the
      > translation for that and is that Hungarian? Could the names have been
      > written that way because Hungary was listed as their residence? (I do know
      > there was no Czechoslovakia at that time)
      > Thanks
      > Eileen
      >
      >
      > From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@... <mailto:cerrunos1%40yahoo.com> >
      > To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > " <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> >
      > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 11:00 AM
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Given Names
      >
      > Eileen, those spellings are Hungarian, not Slovak.
      > Your best bet is to find a name-day calendar online and use it for given
      > names.
      > Ben
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Eileen Williams <mailto:emsmom95%40ymail.com>
      > To: "mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:
      > SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:56 AM
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Given Names
      >
      > I have seen Elizabeth as Erzebeth and Joseph as Jozsef.
      >
      > Eileen
      >
      > From: tom geiss <mailto:tomfgurka%40gvtc.com>
      > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:43 AM
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Given Names
      >
      > I know a few,.
      > Elizabeth is "ELZBETA"
      > John is "JAN"
      > For Mary I have seen on facebook "MARUSKA"
      > And Joseph is "JOZEF"
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Corinne C. Musto
      > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 8:49 AM
      > Subject: [S-R] Given Names
      >
      > Hello Group,
      >
      > Can anyone tell me how these names would be pronounced and spelled in
      > Slovak? Also if you know of any "nick names" or shortened versions for
      > them. They are as follows;
      >
      > Elizabeth
      > Andrew
      > John
      > Mary
      > Veronica
      > Stephen
      > Helen
      > Michael
      > Anna
      > Joseph
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Corinne
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • William C. Wormuth
      Peter, My info has come from my personal experience.  There may be others here who can have factual info but my experiences follow: I was only a visitor but I
      Message 31 of 31 , Sep 23, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Peter,

        My info has come from my personal experience.  There may be others here who can have factual info but my experiences follow:

        I was only a visitor but I was told that a Child who was Baptized was sometimes made fun of by his/her teachers.  Children who were confirmed were forbidden to go to University.  Marriage was also looked down on and could result in the loss of a good job and forced to work in the labor force.

        communists/paper communists were required to, (at times, by the party), to observe people attending mass and write the names on a list.  Many people married in the City Hall and before or after went to other cities to marry by a priest. 

        The mother of my live-in MD friend was a teacher.  Her family came from a Hungarian Slovak village in 1948.  They were Roman Catholics.  She, her sister and Brother were educated in Universities, she being a teacher with a "masters degree" and the other
        siblings holding Doctorates.

        None attended church, although she stated her mother did and they were "Believers".  I recently gave her a copy of the JEDNOTA newspaper and when she read it was religious, she threw it away without reading.

        True believers, resisted the communists by Baptizing and Confirming the children.  One family I know had three children, the youngest being the only one who could attend University.

          My cousin told me that the local head of the party came to the priest and ordered him to quiet the singing during mass on Sunday.  The next Sunday the Church overflowed with people and the singing could be heard throughout the village of 4,000 people.

        One priest I knew, Fr. Anton Kebys, often said mass in a nearby village.  One Sunday, he was driving, after saying mass in our town.  He was stopped by a SNB officer who arrested him for driving after drinking alcohol, (during
        celebration of the Holy Mass).  His Automobile was confiscated.  The officer was a resident of our town and knew him well.

        Father once told me that the hardest thing he ever had to do, as a priest was to respond to a persons request to see the priest when he/she was dying, hear confession, forgiving their sins, knowing what the person had done as an active member of the party.

        This man was a saint and persevered all during the communist rule.When communism fell, he was given the rank of Monsignor, teaching in the Bratislava seminary until retirement.  He died, Happy and peaceful in the Pezinok Charitas.

        God Rest his Soul l!

        Z Bohom,

        Vilo







        ________________________________
        From: htcstech <htcstech@...>
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 3:50 AM
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Given Names


         
        I would be interested to know how Communism affected various faiths. My
        parents were secretly married in Budapest (Midnight in the cryptorium under
        the church), and notification of the marriage was sent to Czechosolvakia to
        an RC church where the priest filled in the 'Observation' column that my
        father married, where and who to on his baptism record.
        When we emigrated to Australia my parents soon abandoned the local RC
        church. Evidently 'community' meant something different to what they were
        both used to.
        The general impression I was given, that Communism did not support any
        religion and that people were free not to attend church. The State was more
        important than Secular.

        Peter M.

        On 23 September 2012 12:21, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Joe, Babka does both. It is like she tries to "keep it clean," but you
        > better have a good basis in both Spis and Rusyn! You better also expect the
        > grammar to fluctuate- and you have to have a vocabulary in all three. She
        > is going to mix them; but this is normal in Eastern Slovakia.
        >
        > Spis is not just grammar- it is a dialect with different vocabulary as
        > well. Rusyn--and I mean REAL Rusyn, not this sputtering of Spis that is
        > written off a "Rusyn" here in the States, is almost completely different
        > than Slovak.
        >
        > Ben
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Joe Armata <armata+@...>
        > To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:55 PM
        >
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Given Names
        >
        >
        >
        > Ben, I'm curious. When you say your grandmother speaks a mix of Rusyn
        > and Slovak, is she mixing words from the different languages but keeping
        > the grammatical skeleton (conjugation and declension endings) uniform -
        > all from Rusyn or all from Slovak? That's what I'm expecting it must
        > be, but maybe you mean she's actually mixing the grammatical endings,
        > taking some from one language and some from the other. That seems
        > chaotic to me!
        >
        > Joe
        >
        > > Corinne, Babka still speaks a mix of Rusyn, Spis, and Slovak, and
        > > there seems not to be a change that can be easily demarcated by
        > > anything other than education. The traditions are still somewhat
        > > extant, but gradually disappearing. But religion is an interesting
        > > story!
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.