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Re: [S-R] FURIN and BOROS

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  • Julie Michutka
    ... John, I ll respectfully disagree about the passenger manifest. The manifests of 1913 should name the nearest relative in the old country--there could be a
    Message 1 of 29 , Sep 13 5:30 AM
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      On Sep 13, 2012, at 5:41 AM, John wrote:
      > Tom, that's a good point. However, the passenger manifest simply confirms the surnames and the village name. It's time for Robin to move on to researching the church records -- listed in an earlier reply.

      John, I'll respectfully disagree about the passenger manifest. The manifests of 1913 should name the nearest relative in the old country--there could be a surprise there, that might lead in a new direction. It also asks to whom they are going in the USA; it's probably Joseph's father, in this case, but Joseph's father must have a manifest entry somewhere and I'd sure want to know to whom he was going and with whom he was traveling because those are leads to more info. And if I remember right, the last column of this manifest would be asking place of birth--and that's one of the things that Robin is looking for, for Joseph's mother.

      Robin--you mention lots of siblings. John and each of his siblings produced records, some of which ask for info about their parents. Birth and baptismal records are the first place I'd look. You didn't mention which state they settled in, some states have open birth records, some not, but these would be about 100 years old so maybe you'd have access. If Joseph's father was alive in the mid-1940s, he might have been in the age group for the "old men's draft," and you should definitely check that. (Did Joseph have brothers in the US? Check that record group for them, too.) Marriage records sometimes indicate where parents of the bride and groom were born or "from." Death records for Joseph's parents--have you checked those? The accuracy of the information about deceased's place of birth varies wildly, but it would be foolish not to check. And check the obits, too; a different family member might have supplied the info. Again, if Joseph's parents had siblings in the US, look for those same records for them.

      You're really not at a dead end, you just haven't done a thorough search yet. There's fun still to be had. :~)

      Julie Michutka
      jmm@...


      >
      > BOROS still exists and is supported by Cisarik. FURIN surname seems to have died out in the immediate area.
      >
      > All this was pointed out in 2008 and it would seem to have stalled.
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "t.salony" <t.salony@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Robin,
      >>
      >> It almost sounds as if you haven't actually found &/or looked at the arrival manifest?
      >>
      >> TOM
      >>
      >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "roc8jas" <roc8jas@> wrote:
      >>>
      >>> Julie,
      >>>
      >>> Here is a quick recap. Grandfather (Joseph Anthony Furin) was born in 1909 and immigrated to the US in 1913 with his mother (Anna Boros). His baptismal record says he was baptized in Kis Porubka. He has lots of siblings, all born in the US. He was the oldest.
      >>>
      >>> I'm trying to find out more about his parents (my Gr. Grandparents). They were both naturalized, but there are no details about there home location or relatives.
      >>>
      >>> There was a witness identified on the baptismal record, and I guessed that it might be a relative and tried to find out more about him, but got nowhere.
      >>>
      >>> Thanks for the response.
      >>>
      >>> Robin
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • John
      Julie, your comments are right on the mark. However, we already know the surnames and the apparent village of birth, Kis Poruba = Liptovska Porubka. This is
      Message 2 of 29 , Sep 13 5:45 AM
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        Julie, your comments are right on the mark. However, we already know the surnames and the apparent village of birth, Kis Poruba = Liptovska Porubka. This is confirmed in the Ellis Island records.

        Having said that, isn't it time to delve into the available RC church records to confirm DOB, parents, marriages, etc? It is in my book.

        That is not to say that other avenues of research should be discarded.

        It's a pity that this particular film has not yet been made available on the web in digital form. As well, there is no 1869 Hungarian Census in the archival listings.


        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Julie Michutka <jmm@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > On Sep 13, 2012, at 5:41 AM, John wrote:
        > > Tom, that's a good point. However, the passenger manifest simply confirms the surnames and the village name. It's time for Robin to move on to researching the church records -- listed in an earlier reply.
        >
        > John, I'll respectfully disagree about the passenger manifest. The manifests of 1913 should name the nearest relative in the old country--there could be a surprise there, that might lead in a new direction. It also asks to whom they are going in the USA; it's probably Joseph's father, in this case, but Joseph's father must have a manifest entry somewhere and I'd sure want to know to whom he was going and with whom he was traveling because those are leads to more info. And if I remember right, the last column of this manifest would be asking place of birth--and that's one of the things that Robin is looking for, for Joseph's mother.
        >
        > Robin--you mention lots of siblings. John and each of his siblings produced records, some of which ask for info about their parents. Birth and baptismal records are the first place I'd look. You didn't mention which state they settled in, some states have open birth records, some not, but these would be about 100 years old so maybe you'd have access. If Joseph's father was alive in the mid-1940s, he might have been in the age group for the "old men's draft," and you should definitely check that. (Did Joseph have brothers in the US? Check that record group for them, too.) Marriage records sometimes indicate where parents of the bride and groom were born or "from." Death records for Joseph's parents--have you checked those? The accuracy of the information about deceased's place of birth varies wildly, but it would be foolish not to check. And check the obits, too; a different family member might have supplied the info. Again, if Joseph's parents had siblings in the US, look for those same records for them.
        >
        > You're really not at a dead end, you just haven't done a thorough search yet. There's fun still to be had. :~)
        >
        > Julie Michutka
        > jmm@...
        >
        >
        > >
        > > BOROS still exists and is supported by Cisarik. FURIN surname seems to have died out in the immediate area.
        > >
        > > All this was pointed out in 2008 and it would seem to have stalled.
        > >
        > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "t.salony" <t.salony@> wrote:
        > >>
        > >> Robin,
        > >>
        > >> It almost sounds as if you haven't actually found &/or looked at the arrival manifest?
        > >>
        > >> TOM
        > >>
        > >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "roc8jas" <roc8jas@> wrote:
        > >>>
        > >>> Julie,
        > >>>
        > >>> Here is a quick recap. Grandfather (Joseph Anthony Furin) was born in 1909 and immigrated to the US in 1913 with his mother (Anna Boros). His baptismal record says he was baptized in Kis Porubka. He has lots of siblings, all born in the US. He was the oldest.
        > >>>
        > >>> I'm trying to find out more about his parents (my Gr. Grandparents). They were both naturalized, but there are no details about there home location or relatives.
        > >>>
        > >>> There was a witness identified on the baptismal record, and I guessed that it might be a relative and tried to find out more about him, but got nowhere.
        > >>>
        > >>> Thanks for the response.
        > >>>
        > >>> Robin
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
        > >
        > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
        > >
        > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Julie Michutka
        ... Yes. My point was that there are a variety of avenues that could lead to the information sought. You and I are basically in agreement. ~Julie [Non-text
        Message 3 of 29 , Sep 13 6:03 AM
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          On Sep 13, 2012, at 8:45 AM, John wrote:

          > Having said that, isn't it time to delve into the available RC church records to confirm DOB, parents, marriages, etc? It is in my book.

          Yes. My point was that there are a variety of avenues that could lead to the information sought. You and I are basically in agreement. ~Julie



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Julie Michutka
          For a good example of expanding a search to solve a research problem, see
          Message 4 of 29 , Sep 13 8:50 AM
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            For a good example of expanding a search to solve a research problem, see https://www.evidenceexplained.com/content/quicklesson-11-identity-problems-fan-principle

            The example is not the same time frame and location as you are searching, but the principles and methodology are pertinent.

            This website and its Facebook page "Evidence Explained" are well worth reading for those who are serious about genealogical research.

            Julie Michutka
            jmm@...

            On Sep 12, 2012, at 6:05 PM, roc8jas wrote:

            > Julie,
            >
            > Here is a quick recap. Grandfather (Joseph Anthony Furin) was born in 1909 and immigrated to the US in 1913 with his mother (Anna Boros). His baptismal record says he was baptized in Kis Porubka. He has lots of siblings, all born in the US. He was the oldest.
          • roc8jas
            John, I haven t checked the RC records, so I will try that. The baptismal record indicates RC. Thanks for the tip and the location that it is filed under.
            Message 5 of 29 , Sep 13 4:28 PM
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              John,

              I haven't checked the RC records, so I will try that. The baptismal record indicates RC.

              Thanks for the tip and the location that it is filed under.

              Robin

              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@...> wrote:
              >
              > >>> His baptismal record says he was baptized in [Kis Porubka]. He has lots of siblings, all born in the US. He was the oldest.
              >
              > I'm trying to find out more about his parents (my Gr. Grandparents). They were both naturalized, but there are no details about [there] home location or relatives. <<<
              >
              > We need to know the RELIGION. Assume RC for the moment.
              >
              > Have you researched the RC church records covering Kis Poruba, now called Liptovska Porubka? They are filed under Liptovsky Hradok.
              >
              > LDS has Roman Catholic parish registers of baptisms, marriages and deaths for Liptovský Hrádok, Slovakia, formerly Lipto-Ujvar, Lipto, Hungary.
              >
              > FHL INTL Film [ 1983104 Items 2-3 ]
              >
              > Krsty 1803-1861
              > Birmovaní 1819, 1824, 1825
              > Manželstvá 1803-1861
              > Zmiešané manželstvá 1810-1866
              > Úmrtia 1803-1861
              >
              > Rodná kniha 1862 Birmovaní 1873, 1896
              > Konvertiti 1890
              > Krsty 1862-1897
              > Manželstvá 1862-1901
              > Úmrtia 1862-1898
              >
              > As nearly as I can determine, this film is not currently available for research online. Film only.
              >
            • roc8jas
              Tom, I have checked the manifest as recorded in the Ellis Island records. It only says they are from Hungary.
              Message 6 of 29 , Sep 13 4:30 PM
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                Tom,

                I have checked the manifest as recorded in the Ellis Island records. It only says they are from Hungary.

                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "t.salony" <t.salony@...> wrote:
                >
                > Robin,
                >
                > It almost sounds as if you haven't actually found &/or looked at the arrival manifest?
                >
                > TOM
                >
                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "roc8jas" <roc8jas@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Julie,
                > >
                > > Here is a quick recap. Grandfather (Joseph Anthony Furin) was born in 1909 and immigrated to the US in 1913 with his mother (Anna Boros). His baptismal record says he was baptized in Kis Porubka. He has lots of siblings, all born in the US. He was the oldest.
                > >
                > > I'm trying to find out more about his parents (my Gr. Grandparents). They were both naturalized, but there are no details about there home location or relatives.
                > >
                > > There was a witness identified on the baptismal record, and I guessed that it might be a relative and tried to find out more about him, but got nowhere.
                > >
                > > Thanks for the response.
                > >
                > > Robin
                > >
                > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Julie Michutka <jmm@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Robin, could you recap what you have on your grandfather? I went into the archives and saw a long series of posts from 2010. Make it just a tad easier for us to help. :~) Grandfather's name, date of birth; date of immigration; where did he live, marry, die?
                > > >
                > > > You mention only census records, as far as American records go. Were your grandfather or your great-grandparents naturalized? Since I have no idea when he was born or immigrated, I can't begin to guess whether there might be draft records. Or Social Security applications. Obits? Passenger manifest?
                > > >
                > > > Siblings... did your grandfather have siblings? If so, have you checked for each of their baptismal records in Kis Porubka? Have you searched siblings' records in the US?
                > > >
                > > > When you have a dead end, you have to expand the search to anyone associated with the family, and you have to piece together bits of info instead of looking for something that explicitly answers your research question. Immigrants didn't usually plop themselves down into a new location where they knew no one; so who else is with them in the US who knew them from the old country? These could be co-workers, godparents to their children, people named on their passenger manifests ("going to...."), people in the same town on the census record who have the same country of birth...
                > > >
                > > > Julie Michutka
                > > > jmm@
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > On Sep 11, 2012, at 10:54 PM, roc8jas wrote:
                > > >
                > > > > Does anyone have some suggestions for getting past a dead end in one's research. The only documentation I've been able to find is my grandfather's baptism record (posted earlier). He was baptized in kis porubka, but I don't know for sure if that is where his parents (father Janos Josef Furin, mother Anna Boros) lived. Most commonly folks with the surname Furin seem to come from Zavadka vs. Liptov and I can find no clues for my great grandmother, Anna, as Boros seems to be a common name.
                > > > >
                > > > > If anyone has a suggestion about a new direction for some research that would be wonderful. Most census records after my grandfather and gr. grandparent's immigration are vague and locations change depending upon the geo-political realities of Europe at the time.
                > > > >
                > > > > Super thanks,
                > > > >
                > > > > Robin
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • roc8jas
                Julie, Let me clarify about siblings. My grandfather Joseph had lots of siblings born in the US. I have no information about his parents, regarding any
                Message 7 of 29 , Sep 13 4:34 PM
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                  Julie,

                  Let me clarify about siblings. My grandfather Joseph had lots of siblings born in the US. I have no information about his parents, regarding any siblings. I hoping that if I check the RC records as John suggests and then employ your wider search technique will gat me another relative to work with so I can find out more about my gr. grandparents ( John and Anna).

                  Many thanks

                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Julie Michutka <jmm@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > On Sep 13, 2012, at 5:41 AM, John wrote:
                  > > Tom, that's a good point. However, the passenger manifest simply confirms the surnames and the village name. It's time for Robin to move on to researching the church records -- listed in an earlier reply.
                  >
                  > John, I'll respectfully disagree about the passenger manifest. The manifests of 1913 should name the nearest relative in the old country--there could be a surprise there, that might lead in a new direction. It also asks to whom they are going in the USA; it's probably Joseph's father, in this case, but Joseph's father must have a manifest entry somewhere and I'd sure want to know to whom he was going and with whom he was traveling because those are leads to more info. And if I remember right, the last column of this manifest would be asking place of birth--and that's one of the things that Robin is looking for, for Joseph's mother.
                  >
                  > Robin--you mention lots of siblings. John and each of his siblings produced records, some of which ask for info about their parents. Birth and baptismal records are the first place I'd look. You didn't mention which state they settled in, some states have open birth records, some not, but these would be about 100 years old so maybe you'd have access. If Joseph's father was alive in the mid-1940s, he might have been in the age group for the "old men's draft," and you should definitely check that. (Did Joseph have brothers in the US? Check that record group for them, too.) Marriage records sometimes indicate where parents of the bride and groom were born or "from." Death records for Joseph's parents--have you checked those? The accuracy of the information about deceased's place of birth varies wildly, but it would be foolish not to check. And check the obits, too; a different family member might have supplied the info. Again, if Joseph's parents had siblings in the US, look for those same records for them.
                  >
                  > You're really not at a dead end, you just haven't done a thorough search yet. There's fun still to be had. :~)
                  >
                  > Julie Michutka
                  > jmm@...
                  >
                  >
                  > >
                  > > BOROS still exists and is supported by Cisarik. FURIN surname seems to have died out in the immediate area.
                  > >
                  > > All this was pointed out in 2008 and it would seem to have stalled.
                  > >
                  > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "t.salony" <t.salony@> wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >> Robin,
                  > >>
                  > >> It almost sounds as if you haven't actually found &/or looked at the arrival manifest?
                  > >>
                  > >> TOM
                  > >>
                  > >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "roc8jas" <roc8jas@> wrote:
                  > >>>
                  > >>> Julie,
                  > >>>
                  > >>> Here is a quick recap. Grandfather (Joseph Anthony Furin) was born in 1909 and immigrated to the US in 1913 with his mother (Anna Boros). His baptismal record says he was baptized in Kis Porubka. He has lots of siblings, all born in the US. He was the oldest.
                  > >>>
                  > >>> I'm trying to find out more about his parents (my Gr. Grandparents). They were both naturalized, but there are no details about there home location or relatives.
                  > >>>
                  > >>> There was a witness identified on the baptismal record, and I guessed that it might be a relative and tried to find out more about him, but got nowhere.
                  > >>>
                  > >>> Thanks for the response.
                  > >>>
                  > >>> Robin
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
                  > >
                  > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
                  > >
                  > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • roc8jas
                  Kimberly, It is worth a shot. Thanks for the suggestion. Robin
                  Message 8 of 29 , Sep 13 4:56 PM
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                    Kimberly,

                    It is worth a shot. Thanks for the suggestion.

                    Robin

                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "kimberly_r_mason" <kimberly_r_mason@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I was stuck on my great grandfather from Bohemia who arrived in 1904. I had his parents' names from his marriage record but that was all. I completed a Family Finder DNA test earlier this year but didn't find a connection with the first dozen matches so I gave up. Then I tried again with a match and he is actually a 5th cousin now living in Norway. He was able to connect me to his tree back to my 9th great grandparents. Maybe it was pure luck but it helped me.
                    >
                    > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "roc8jas" <roc8jas@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Does anyone have some suggestions for getting past a dead end in one's research. The only documentation I've been able to find is my grandfather's baptism record (posted earlier).
                    >
                  • John
                    ... Perhaps you didn t realize that there is (often) a second page to the manifest. There is a lot of useful info there -- as has been pointed out.
                    Message 9 of 29 , Sep 13 5:24 PM
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                      >>> I have checked the manifest as recorded in the Ellis Island records. It only says they are from Hungary. <<<

                      Perhaps you didn't realize that there is (often) a second page to the manifest. There is a lot of useful info there -- as has been pointed out.
                    • Julie Michutka
                      ... I apologize if this question comes across as simplistic, but... are you just looking at the extracted info, or at the image of the actual manifest page?
                      Message 10 of 29 , Sep 13 5:33 PM
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                        On Sep 13, 2012, at 7:30 PM, roc8jas wrote:
                        > I have checked the manifest as recorded in the Ellis Island records. It only says they are from Hungary.

                        I apologize if this question comes across as simplistic, but... are you just looking at the extracted info, or at the image of the actual manifest page?

                        Can you point us to the ship name, date, port for us to take a look at it ourselves? Fresh eyes might pick up on something...

                        Julie Michutka
                        jmm@...
                      • Julie Michutka
                        Oops on asking for port of arrival... if you found them on the Ellis Island site, they obviously arrived at New York. --Julie
                        Message 11 of 29 , Sep 13 5:35 PM
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                          Oops on asking for port of arrival... if you found them on the Ellis Island site, they obviously arrived at New York. --Julie
                        • Julie Michutka
                          OK, found them. On the SS Main, from Bremen to NY, arriving 4 Nov 1913. If you look on Ancestry, it s images 18 and 19 (out of 107 images). Party of 3: Amalia
                          Message 12 of 29 , Sep 13 6:19 PM
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                            OK, found them. On the SS Main, from Bremen to NY, arriving 4 Nov 1913. If you look on Ancestry, it's images 18 and 19 (out of 107 images). Party of 3: Amalia Furin, 17 and single, mother Erz [Erzebet?] Furin was in Kisporuba; Anna Furin, age 24, housewife, mother Anna Boros was in Kisporuba; and 3 yr old Josef. They're going to Newark. There's a certificate number (for first papers, or nat'l cert, not sure which) for Anna penned in above her name, and the date 12/22/42. Anna's and Jozef's place of birth (recorded in last column on second page) is Kisporuba, but Amalia's is different, and unfortunately difficult to read--Szepesranez?? If Amalia is Anna's husband's sister, this could be handy info.

                            All three were detained; see image 106 for Anna and son, held until husband could pick them up. See image 102 (very bottom) for Amalia; her original line (image 19) has a faintly written note about eye issues; but here she is held as LPC (Likely Public Charge). She was admitted on 6 November.

                            Going to SteveMorse.org and searching by town name "sounds like" Kisporuba yields 89 hits, including some others named Furin and Boros.

                            Julie Michutka
                            jmm@...
                          • William C. Wormuth
                            Ahoj Tom, Yes they were from Hungary, which was the Kingdom under which they lived.  It is the same as under CzechoSlovakia, they were not Czech.  The
                            Message 13 of 29 , Sep 13 6:43 PM
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                              Ahoj Tom,

                              Yes they were from Hungary, which was the Kingdom under which they lived.  It is the same as under CzechoSlovakia, they were not Czech.  The original manifest usually notes they are Slovak.

                              Z Bohom,

                              Vilo



                              ________________________________
                              From: roc8jas <roc8jas@...>
                              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 7:30 PM
                              Subject: Re: [S-R] How to get past a dead end?


                               
                              Tom,

                              I have checked the manifest as recorded in the Ellis Island records. It only says they are from Hungary.

                              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "t.salony" <t.salony@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Robin,
                              >
                              > It almost sounds as if you haven't actually found &/or looked at the arrival manifest?
                              >
                              > TOM
                              >
                              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "roc8jas" <roc8jas@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Julie,
                              > >
                              > > Here is a quick recap. Grandfather (Joseph Anthony Furin) was born in 1909 and immigrated to the US in 1913 with his mother (Anna Boros). His baptismal record says he was baptized in Kis Porubka. He has lots of siblings, all born in the US. He was the oldest.
                              > >
                              > > I'm trying to find out more about his parents (my Gr. Grandparents). They were both naturalized, but there are no details about there home location or relatives.
                              > >
                              > > There was a witness identified on the baptismal record, and I guessed that it might be a relative and tried to find out more about him, but got nowhere.
                              > >
                              > > Thanks for the response.
                              > >
                              > > Robin
                              > >
                              > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Julie Michutka <jmm@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Robin, could you recap what you have on your grandfather? I went into the archives and saw a long series of posts from 2010. Make it just a tad easier for us to help. :~) Grandfather's name, date of birth; date of immigration; where did he live, marry, die?
                              > > >
                              > > > You mention only census records, as far as American records go. Were your grandfather or your great-grandparents naturalized? Since I have no idea when he was born or immigrated, I can't begin to guess whether there might be draft records. Or Social Security applications. Obits? Passenger manifest?
                              > > >
                              > > > Siblings... did your grandfather have siblings? If so, have you checked for each of their baptismal records in Kis Porubka? Have you searched siblings' records in the US?
                              > > >
                              > > > When you have a dead end, you have to expand the search to anyone associated with the family, and you have to piece together bits of info instead of looking for something that explicitly answers your research question. Immigrants didn't usually plop themselves down into a new location where they knew no one; so who else is with them in the US who knew them from the old country? These could be co-workers, godparents to their children, people named on their passenger manifests ("going to...."), people in the same town on the census record who have the same country of birth...
                              > > >
                              > > > Julie Michutka
                              > > > jmm@
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > On Sep 11, 2012, at 10:54 PM, roc8jas wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > > Does anyone have some suggestions for getting past a dead end in one's research. The only documentation I've been able to find is my grandfather's baptism record (posted earlier). He was baptized in kis porubka, but I don't know for sure if that is where his parents (father Janos Josef Furin, mother Anna Boros) lived. Most commonly folks with the surname Furin seem to come from Zavadka vs. Liptov and I can find no clues for my great grandmother, Anna, as Boros seems to be a common name.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > If anyone has a suggestion about a new direction for some research that would be wonderful. Most census records after my grandfather and gr. grandparent's immigration are vague and locations change depending upon the geo-political realities of Europe at the time.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Super thanks,
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Robin
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • John
                              ... Great catch!!! Refer to RE: [S-R] FURIN - Location SZEPES REMETE Mon Jan 5, 2009 8:17 am for a string that deals with this exact item.
                              Message 14 of 29 , Sep 13 7:04 PM
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                                >>> Anna's and Jozef's place of birth (recorded in last column on second page) is Kisporuba, but Amalia's is different, and unfortunately difficult to read--Szepesranez?? If Amalia is Anna's husband's sister, this could be handy info.<<<

                                Great catch!!!

                                Refer to RE: [S-R] FURIN - Location SZEPES REMETE Mon Jan 5, 2009 8:17 am for a string that deals with this exact item.
                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/message/21376

                                "SZ.REMENTE is actually SZEPES REMETE, the old Hungary name
                                (1873-1913) for the present-day place of MNISEK NAD POPRADOM (since 1948)"

                                This is northeast of Liptovska Porubka a considerable distance at the Polish border. LDS has RC church records but apparently not online.

                                Roman Catholic parish registers of baptisms, marriages, deaths and confirmations for Mníšek nad Popradom, Slovakia, formerly known as Mnisek (or Poprádremete), Szepes, Hungary.

                                Krsty 1787-1851 Manželstvá 1787-1939 Úmrtia 1787-1840 Birmovaní bez dátumu - FHL INTL Film [ 1739651 Items 5-9 ]

                                Úmrtia 1840-1845, 1850-1867 Krsty 1889-1897 Úmrtia 1868-1939 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1739652 Items 1-3 ]
                              • William C. Wormuth
                                John, From the 3 Volume Vlastivedny Slovnik na Slovensku : SZEPES REMETE is  Mnisek nad Hnilcom [Mnee-shehk Nahd Hneel-tsohm].  It was until 1960, Spis
                                Message 15 of 29 , Sep 13 10:11 PM
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                                  John,

                                  From the 3 Volume "Vlastivedny Slovnik na Slovensku":

                                  SZEPES REMETE is  Mnisek nad Hnilcom [Mnee-shehk Nahd Hneel-tsohm]. 


                                  It was until 1960, Spis District, Gelnica County, Kosice Country.  After1960 Spisska Nova Ves District, Vychodo Slovensky Country.
                                   

                                  German name was Einsiedel an der Göllnitz

                                  Hungarian name was Remete, Szepesremete [Sehpesh-rehnehteh].  Szepes is the Spis [Speesh] area. 

                                  Z Bohom,

                                  Vilo


                                  ________________________________
                                  From: John <johnqadam@...>
                                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:04 PM
                                  Subject: [S-R] Re: Furin manifest


                                   
                                  >>> Anna's and Jozef's place of birth (recorded in last column on second page) is Kisporuba, but Amalia's is different, and unfortunately difficult to read--Szepesranez?? If Amalia is Anna's husband's sister, this could be handy info.<<<

                                  Great catch!!!

                                  Refer to RE: [S-R] FURIN - Location SZEPES REMETE Mon Jan 5, 2009 8:17 am for a string that deals with this exact item.
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/message/21376

                                  "SZ.REMENTE is actually SZEPES REMETE, the old Hungary name
                                  (1873-1913) for the present-day place of MNISEK NAD POPRADOM (since 1948)"

                                  This is northeast of Liptovska Porubka a considerable distance at the Polish border. LDS has RC church records but apparently not online.

                                  Roman Catholic parish registers of baptisms, marriages, deaths and confirmations for Mníšek nad Popradom, Slovakia, formerly known as Mnisek (or Poprádremete), Szepes, Hungary.

                                  Krsty 1787-1851 Manželstvá 1787-1939 Úmrtia 1787-1840 Birmovaní bez dátumu - FHL INTL Film [ 1739651 Items 5-9 ]

                                  Úmrtia 1840-1845, 1850-1867 Krsty 1889-1897 Úmrtia 1868-1939 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1739652 Items 1-3 ]




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • roc8jas
                                  Julie, Thank you for helping me dig a little deeper. I suspect a relationship to amalia, but my cursory search hasn tt found her, but maybe I can find the
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Sep 14 3:08 PM
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                                    Julie,

                                    Thank you for helping me dig a little deeper. I suspect a relationship to amalia, but my cursory search hasn'tt found her, but maybe I can find the Erzebet.

                                    I have one detail question. What does likely public charge mean?

                                    Thanks again

                                    Robin
                                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Julie Michutka <jmm@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > OK, found them. On the SS Main, from Bremen to NY, arriving 4 Nov 1913. If you look on Ancestry, it's images 18 and 19 (out of 107 images). Party of 3: Amalia Furin, 17 and single, mother Erz [Erzebet?] Furin was in Kisporuba; Anna Furin, age 24, housewife, mother Anna Boros was in Kisporuba; and 3 yr old Josef. They're going to Newark. There's a certificate number (for first papers, or nat'l cert, not sure which) for Anna penned in above her name, and the date 12/22/42. Anna's and Jozef's place of birth (recorded in last column on second page) is Kisporuba, but Amalia's is different, and unfortunately difficult to read--Szepesranez?? If Amalia is Anna's husband's sister, this could be handy info.
                                    >
                                    > All three were detained; see image 106 for Anna and son, held until husband could pick them up. See image 102 (very bottom) for Amalia; her original line (image 19) has a faintly written note about eye issues; but here she is held as LPC (Likely Public Charge). She was admitted on 6 November.
                                    >
                                    > Going to SteveMorse.org and searching by town name "sounds like" Kisporuba yields 89 hits, including some others named Furin and Boros.
                                    >
                                    > Julie Michutka
                                    > jmm@...
                                    >
                                  • roc8jas
                                    So, if I were to try and find this place on a map today, i would look up Spisska Nova Ves District? Many thanks to all
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Sep 14 3:14 PM
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                                      So, if I were to try and find this place on a map today, i would look up Spisska Nova Ves District?

                                      Many thanks to all

                                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "William C. Wormuth" <senzus@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > John,
                                      >
                                      > From the 3 Volume "Vlastivedny Slovnik na Slovensku":
                                      >
                                      > SZEPES REMETE is  Mnisek nad Hnilcom [Mnee-shehk Nahd Hneel-tsohm]. 
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > It was until 1960, Spis District, Gelnica County, Kosice Country.  After1960 Spisska Nova Ves District, Vychodo Slovensky Country.
                                      >  
                                      >
                                      > German name was Einsiedel an der Göllnitz
                                      >
                                      > Hungarian name was Remete, Szepesremete [Sehpesh-rehnehteh].  Szepes is the Spis [Speesh] area. 
                                      >
                                      > Z Bohom,
                                      >
                                      > Vilo
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ________________________________
                                      > From: John <johnqadam@...>
                                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:04 PM
                                      > Subject: [S-R] Re: Furin manifest
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >  
                                      > >>> Anna's and Jozef's place of birth (recorded in last column on second page) is Kisporuba, but Amalia's is different, and unfortunately difficult to read--Szepesranez?? If Amalia is Anna's husband's sister, this could be handy info.<<<
                                      >
                                      > Great catch!!!
                                      >
                                      > Refer to RE: [S-R] FURIN - Location SZEPES REMETE Mon Jan 5, 2009 8:17 am for a string that deals with this exact item.
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/message/21376
                                      >
                                      > "SZ.REMENTE is actually SZEPES REMETE, the old Hungary name
                                      > (1873-1913) for the present-day place of MNISEK NAD POPRADOM (since 1948)"
                                      >
                                      > This is northeast of Liptovska Porubka a considerable distance at the Polish border. LDS has RC church records but apparently not online.
                                      >
                                      > Roman Catholic parish registers of baptisms, marriages, deaths and confirmations for Mníšek nad Popradom, Slovakia, formerly known as Mnisek (or Poprádremete), Szepes, Hungary.
                                      >
                                      > Krsty 1787-1851 Manželstvá 1787-1939 Úmrtia 1787-1840 Birmovaní bez dátumu - FHL INTL Film [ 1739651 Items 5-9 ]
                                      >
                                      > Úmrtia 1840-1845, 1850-1867 Krsty 1889-1897 Úmrtia 1868-1939 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1739652 Items 1-3 ]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                    • Julie Michutka
                                      ... Probably there was some initial doubt as to whether she had resources (a job, or family). Possibly they just needed verification that someone would be
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Sep 14 3:59 PM
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                                        On Sep 14, 2012, at 6:08 PM, roc8jas wrote:

                                        >
                                        > Julie,
                                        >
                                        > Thank you for helping me dig a little deeper. I suspect a relationship to amalia, but my cursory search hasn'tt found her, but maybe I can find the Erzebet.
                                        >
                                        > I have one detail question. What does likely public charge mean?

                                        Probably there was some initial doubt as to whether she had resources (a job, or family). Possibly they just needed verification that someone would be responsible for her.
                                      • William C. Wormuth
                                        Just Google! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mn%C3%AD%C5%A1ek_nad_Hnilcom ________________________________ From: roc8jas To:
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Sep 14 6:46 PM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Just Google!

                                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mn%C3%AD%C5%A1ek_nad_Hnilcom


                                          ________________________________
                                          From: roc8jas <roc8jas@...>
                                          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 6:14 PM
                                          Subject: [S-R] Re: Furin manifest


                                           

                                          So, if I were to try and find this place on a map today, i would look up Spisska Nova Ves District?

                                          Many thanks to all

                                          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "William C. Wormuth" <senzus@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > John,
                                          >
                                          > From the 3 Volume "Vlastivedny Slovnik na Slovensku":
                                          >
                                          > SZEPES REMETE is  Mnisek nad Hnilcom [Mnee-shehk Nahd Hneel-tsohm]. 
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > It was until 1960, Spis District, Gelnica County, Kosice Country.  After1960 Spisska Nova Ves District, Vychodo Slovensky Country.
                                          >  
                                          >
                                          > German name was Einsiedel an der Göllnitz
                                          >
                                          > Hungarian name was Remete, Szepesremete [Sehpesh-rehnehteh].  Szepes is the Spis [Speesh] area. 
                                          >
                                          > Z Bohom,
                                          >
                                          > Vilo
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ________________________________
                                          > From: John <johnqadam@...>
                                          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:04 PM
                                          > Subject: [S-R] Re: Furin manifest
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >  
                                          > >>> Anna's and Jozef's place of birth (recorded in last column on second page) is Kisporuba, but Amalia's is different, and unfortunately difficult to read--Szepesranez?? If Amalia is Anna's husband's sister, this could be handy info.<<<
                                          >
                                          > Great catch!!!
                                          >
                                          > Refer to RE: [S-R] FURIN - Location SZEPES REMETE Mon Jan 5, 2009 8:17 am for a string that deals with this exact item.
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/message/21376
                                          >
                                          > "SZ.REMENTE is actually SZEPES REMETE, the old Hungary name
                                          > (1873-1913) for the present-day place of MNISEK NAD POPRADOM (since 1948)"
                                          >
                                          > This is northeast of Liptovska Porubka a considerable distance at the Polish border. LDS has RC church records but apparently not online.
                                          >
                                          > Roman Catholic parish registers of baptisms, marriages, deaths and confirmations for Mníšek nad Popradom, Slovakia, formerly known as Mnisek (or Poprádremete), Szepes, Hungary.
                                          >
                                          > Krsty 1787-1851 Manželstvá 1787-1939 Úmrtia 1787-1840 Birmovaní bez dátumu - FHL INTL Film [ 1739651 Items 5-9 ]
                                          >
                                          > Úmrtia 1840-1845, 1850-1867 Krsty 1889-1897 Úmrtia 1868-1939 - VAULT INTL Film [ 1739652 Items 1-3 ]
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >




                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • johnqadam
                                          ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mn%C3%AD%C5%A1ek_nad_Hnilcom
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Sep 15 5:04 AM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            >>> Just Google!
                                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mn%C3%AD%C5%A1ek_nad_Hnilcom <<<

                                            Wrong place.

                                            "SZ.REMENTE is actually SZEPES REMETE, the old Hungary name
                                            (1873-1913) for the present-day place of MNISEK NAD POPRADOM (since 1948)"
                                          • roc8jas
                                            What do you mean by BOROS is still supported by Cisarik ?
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Sep 26 8:45 PM
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              What do you mean by "BOROS is still supported by Cisarik"?

                                              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johnqadam@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Tom, that's a good point. However, the passenger manifest simply confirms the surnames and the village name. It's time for Robin to move on to researching the church records -- listed in an earlier reply.
                                              >
                                              > BOROS still exists and is supported by Cisarik. FURIN surname seems to have died out in the immediate area.
                                              >
                                              > All this was pointed out in 2008 and it would seem to have stalled.
                                              >
                                              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "t.salony" <t.salony@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > Robin,
                                              > >
                                              > > It almost sounds as if you haven't actually found &/or looked at the arrival manifest?
                                              > >
                                              > > TOM
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "roc8jas" <roc8jas@> wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Julie,
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Here is a quick recap. Grandfather (Joseph Anthony Furin) was born in 1909 and immigrated to the US in 1913 with his mother (Anna Boros). His baptismal record says he was baptized in Kis Porubka. He has lots of siblings, all born in the US. He was the oldest.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I'm trying to find out more about his parents (my Gr. Grandparents). They were both naturalized, but there are no details about there home location or relatives.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > There was a witness identified on the baptismal record, and I guessed that it might be a relative and tried to find out more about him, but got nowhere.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Thanks for the response.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Robin
                                              >
                                            • John
                                              ... The Cisarik web site offers a list of surnames from the villages. Other handy information too. http://www.cisarik.com/
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Sep 27 5:11 AM
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                                                >>> What do you mean by "BOROS is still supported by Cisarik"? <<<

                                                The Cisarik web site offers a list of surnames from the villages. Other handy information too.

                                                http://www.cisarik.com/
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