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Re: [S-R] Request for help in translating please

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  • Elizabeth
    Thank you Elaine! Very interesting. Appreciate this information! Betty
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 8, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Thank you Elaine! Very interesting. Appreciate this information! Betty

      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Elaine <epowell@...> wrote:
      >
      > My guess would be that this is the practice of announcing the marriage banns. Here's the explanation in Wikipedia:
      >
      > The banns of marriage, commonly known simply as the "banns" or "bans" (from a Middle Englishword meaning "proclamation," rooted in Old French[1]) are the public announcement in a Christian parish church of an impending marriagebetween two specified persons. It is commonly associated with the Church of England and with other denominations whose traditions are similar; the Roman Catholic Church abolished the requirement in 1983.
      >
      > The purpose of banns is to enable anyone to raise any canonical or civil legal impediment to the marriage, so as to prevent marriages that are invalid. Impediments vary between legal jurisdictions, but would normally include a pre-existing marriage that has been neither dissolved nor annulled, a vow of celibacy, lack of consent, or the couple's being related within the prohibited degrees of kinship.
      >
      >
      > I have seen reference to these in some of my family records.
      >
      > Elaine
      >
      >
      > Sent from my iPhone
      >
      > On Sep 7, 2012, at 11:52 PM, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Betty,
      > > The place of residence was Szomolan (Szomolankai - means from or of
      > > Szomolan) the word 'kotelen' means 'tied or bonded to' but commonly written
      > > as 'kotelenseges' which would mean 'confirmed to be from Szomolan'.
      > >
      > > As far as the general observations go for this parish, it continually
      > > states that the marriage was 'advertised 3 times' in most other entries.
      > > This must be a regional thing as I've not seen it in the parishes I've been
      > > researching. It basically means that the marriage was publically announced
      > > before the ceremony but I don't know why.
      > >
      > > I can read the variation of the record, but I don't fully understand it. It
      > > translates as: 'Versegi' - an old word meaning 'ties of blood' - 'akadaly'
      > > meaning 'impediment or hindrance', 'agban' refers to branches i.e. third
      > > (harmadik) and fourth (negyedik) branches - and 'es a harom hirdetestol
      > > felmentvek' - was exempt from the 3 advertisments.
      > > Putting it all together is also difficult but I'll give it a go: That the
      > > marriage was ok in that there was no impediment as there was no
      > > relationship between the bride and groom for 3 or 4 generations or branches
      > > within the families and was therefore exempt from having to advertise.
      > >
      > > As I inferred before, I don't know what advertising the marriage has to do
      > > with things, but is common in this register. Someone hopefully can explain
      > > that one to me. I'm hoping that Ladislav or maybe CurtB can shed a bit more
      > > light on the usage as well.
      > >
      > > Hope that helps,
      > >
      > > Peter M.
      > >
      > > On 8 September 2012 12:41, Elizabeth <bettymisc@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > > **
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Could anyone look at the following familysearch.org file and help me
      > > > translate a record?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-14325-52267-64?cc=1554443&wc=MMYV-T99:942651178
      > > >
      > > > This is a marriage record - May 12, 1846 - Janos Petras and Terez Maszar
      > > > I am having trouble reading the locations column and I am particularly
      > > > interested in the last column of the record.
      > > >
      > > > Slovakia, Church and Synagogue Books, 1592-1910
      > > > Roman Catholic (Rímsko-katolícká cirkev)
      > > > Senica
      > > > Smolinské
      > > > Marriages (Manželstvá) 1785-1852 (Inv. č. 2067)
      > > > Image 47 of 56
      > > >
      > > > Thank you, Betty
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • William C. Wormuth
      Ladi, Your data here is superb but it brought a smile to my face. I have a friend in Smolinske named Smolinsky, whose wife s maiden  name was Somolany, (from
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 8, 2012
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        Ladi,

        Your data here is superb but it brought a smile to my face.

        I have a friend in Smolinske named Smolinsky, whose wife's maiden  name was Somolany, (from Kuklov).;o) :o) :o).

        Z Bohom,

        Vilo



        ________________________________
        From: Ladislav Rosival <lacoros@...>
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, September 8, 2012 4:15 AM
        Subject: RE: [S-R] Request for help in translating please


         
        Hallo,

        I have some comments:

        The word „kotelen“ – the first letter is n, not k so the word si „nőtelen“ which literay means „wifeless“. So the translation is „single from Szomolnok“

        The last collumn read as follows:

        A vérsegi aka[-]

        dálytol a har[-]

        madik és négye[-]

        dik agban és a

        három kiherdeté[-]

        töl Felmentvék

        The translation is Dipsensed form blood-relation (consanguinity) in third and fourth branch and from three advertisments.

        The meaning is, that the bride and groom ARE second and third cousins, and they received a permittion to marry. This dispensation should be given by the bishop. I tis a very helpful notice for genealogist, because you know that the dride and groom are related. What is interesting, that it seems they are second AND third cousins.

        Dispensation from advertisments are given by the local priest (at least i think so). This was done mostly when there was not enough time, and i tis not uncommon, that a child was born earlier then 9 months. In this case i tis possible, that the waiting for the relations dispenasation took more time and they wanted to marry immediatly.

        This is one of the collumns which are in the most (younger - from about 1840) marriage books. Mostly is there only a reptition mark, because most amrriages were normaly 3 times advertised.

        Ladislav

        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of htcstech
        Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 6:53 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Request for help in translating please

        Betty,
        The place of residence was Szomolan (Szomolankai - means from or of
        Szomolan) the word 'kotelen' means 'tied or bonded to' but commonly written
        as 'kotelenseges' which would mean 'confirmed to be from Szomolan'.

        As far as the general observations go for this parish, it continually
        states that the marriage was 'advertised 3 times' in most other entries.
        This must be a regional thing as I've not seen it in the parishes I've been
        researching. It basically means that the marriage was publically announced
        before the ceremony but I don't know why.

        I can read the variation of the record, but I don't fully understand it. It
        translates as: 'Versegi' - an old word meaning 'ties of blood' - 'akadaly'
        meaning 'impediment or hindrance', 'agban' refers to branches i.e. third
        (harmadik) and fourth (negyedik) branches - and 'es a harom hirdetestol
        felmentvek' - was exempt from the 3 advertisments.
        Putting it all together is also difficult but I'll give it a go: That the
        marriage was ok in that there was no impediment as there was no
        relationship between the bride and groom for 3 or 4 generations or branches
        within the families and was therefore exempt from having to advertise.

        As I inferred before, I don't know what advertising the marriage has to do
        with things, but is common in this register. Someone hopefully can explain
        that one to me. I'm hoping that Ladislav or maybe CurtB can shed a bit more
        light on the usage as well.

        Hope that helps,

        Peter M.

        On 8 September 2012 12:41, Elizabeth <bettymisc@... <mailto:bettymisc%40bellsouth.net> > wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Could anyone look at the following familysearch.org file and help me
        > translate a record?
        >
        >
        > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-14325-52267-64?cc=1554443 <https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-14325-52267-64?cc=1554443&wc=MMYV-T99:942651178> &wc=MMYV-T99:942651178
        >
        > This is a marriage record - May 12, 1846 - Janos Petras and Terez Maszar
        > I am having trouble reading the locations column and I am particularly
        > interested in the last column of the record.
        >
        > Slovakia, Church and Synagogue Books, 1592-1910
        > Roman Catholic (Rímsko-katolícká cirkev)
        > Senica
        > Smolinské
        > Marriages (Manželstvá) 1785-1852 (Inv. č. 2067)
        > Image 47 of 56
        >
        > Thank you, Betty
        >
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • lkocik@comcast.net
        Betty  Email me at lkocik@comcast.net  I think we can help each other.  I have lots of Petras and Mas[z]ars from Gbely, Smolinske, Dojc, Adamov,Jablonica,
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 8, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          Betty

           Email me at lkocik@...

           I think we can help each other.

           I have lots of Petras and Mas[z]ars from Gbely, Smolinske, Dojc, Adamov,Jablonica, Letnicie and Skalica.

           Sorry if I misspelled any of those villages.

           I'm sure your aware of all the variations in spelling for Masar.

           I do have an online tree also.

           

          Larry



          ----- Original Message -----


          From: bettymisc@...
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, September 8, 2012 8:35:58 AM
          Subject: Re: [S-R] Request for help in translating please

          Thank you Larry for your interpretation!

          I am very interested in finding out more about the Petras and Mas[z]ars in your tree.  Is your tree online anywhere?  I am particularly interested in tracing a Julianna Petras, born in Sastin-Straze on 21 April 1882 and how she relates to the Mas[z]ars.  I have her father as Josephus Petras born 6 June 1852 in Smolinske and her mother Maria Hodany born 4 April 1853 in Sastin Straze.

          Josephus Petras' mother was Therezia Maszar and his father was Joannes(haven't located their birth records yet).  I am interested in finding other members of both the Petras and Maszar families.

          If you have these Petras' and Maszar's in your tree, please let me know and maybe we can take this to private email messages.

          Thank you again! Betty


          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, lkocik@... wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > Betty
          >
          >  The village is actually Smolinske, in Senica. That's the heading for the church records you were looking under.
          >
          >  This record is in Hungarian, that's why the spelling looks odd.  Most of the records for Smolinske and the other villages in Senica and the general Zahorie region,  are in Hungarian for most of the 1840's, up to 1852. B efore and after that,  they are in latin.
          >
          >   I have Petras and M as[z]ars from Smolinske in my family tree too.
          >
          >
          >
          >  The last column shows a dispensation was granted, but again, in Hungarian. That's the short version of what Peter explained in much more detail.
          >
          > larry
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          >
          >
          > From: "htcstech" <htcstech@...>
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Friday, September 7, 2012 10:52:42 PM
          > Subject: Re: [S-R] Request for help in translating please
          >
          > Betty,
          > The place of residence was Szomolan (Szomolankai - means from or of
          > Szomolan) the word 'kotelen' means 'tied or bonded to' but commonly written
          > as 'kotelenseges' which would mean 'confirmed to be from Szomolan'.
          >
          > As far as the general observations go for this parish, it continually
          > states that the marriage was 'advertised 3 times' in most other entries.
          > This must be a regional thing as I've not seen it in the parishes I've been
          > researching. It basically means that the marriage was publically announced
          > before the ceremony but I don't know why.
          >
          > I can read the variation of the record, but I don't fully understand it. It
          > translates as: 'Versegi' - an old word meaning 'ties of blood' - 'akadaly'
          > meaning 'impediment or hindrance', 'agban' refers to branches i.e. third
          > (harmadik) and fourth (negyedik) branches - and 'es a harom hirdetestol
          > felmentvek' - was exempt from the 3 advertisments.
          > Putting it all together is also difficult but I'll give it a go: That the
          > marriage was ok in that there was no impediment as there was no
          > relationship between the bride and groom for 3 or 4 generations or branches
          > within the families and was therefore exempt from having to advertise.
          >
          > As I inferred before, I don't know what advertising the marriage has to do
          > with things, but is common in this register. Someone hopefully can explain
          > that one to me. I'm hoping that Ladislav or maybe CurtB can shed a bit more
          > light on the usage as well.
          >
          > Hope that helps,
          >
          > Peter M.
          >
          >
          >
          > On 8 September 2012 12:41, Elizabeth <bettymisc@...> wrote:
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > Could anyone look at the following familysearch.org file and help me
          > > translate a record?
          > >
          > >
          > > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-14325-52267-64?cc=1554443&wc=MMYV-T99:942651178
          > >
          > > This is a marriage record - May 12, 1846 - Janos Petras and Terez Maszar
          > > I am having trouble reading the locations column and I am particularly
          > > interested in the last column of the record.
          > >
          > > Slovakia, Church and Synagogue Books, 1592-1910
          > > Roman Catholic (Rímsko-katolícká cirkev)
          > > Senica
          > > Smolinské
          > > Marriages (Manželstvá) 1785-1852 (Inv. č. 2067)
          > > Image 47 of 56
          > >
          > > Thank you, Betty
          > >
          > >  
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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