Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [S-R] Ruska Nova Ves

Expand Messages
  • Paul Sabol
    I can t speak in generalities, but I can say my Sabol and Sabolcik ancestors from RNV were Rusyn and attended the Greek Catholic churches here when they got to
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 5, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      I can't speak in generalities, but I can say my Sabol and Sabolcik ancestors from RNV were Rusyn and attended the Greek Catholic churches here when they got to America.

       
      Regards,


      Paul G. Sabol


      "Pain or damage don’t end the world, or despair or beatings. The world ends when you’re dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man—and give some back." - Al Swearingen


      ________________________________
      From: AnnieW <annduardo@...>
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 3:05 AM
      Subject: [S-R] Ruska Nova Ves


       
      Does anyone know off hand how heavily of an influence the Rusyns had in this area? Is Greek Catholic an indicator of this?




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • AnnieW
      I m getting a little confused... My husbands Ivanko/Kmetz family in Yonkers attended a roman catholic Slovak church and was always told his grandmother spoke
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 5, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        I'm getting a little confused... My husbands Ivanko/Kmetz family in Yonkers attended a roman catholic Slovak church and was always told his grandmother spoke slovak and prided on being Slovak. In fact im told the Slovak family didnt even like his GReek Catholic Rusyn Grandfathers family, his Gma married a Rusyn from the former Galicia. But now that I found his "Slovak" families birth records and ancestral village Ruska Nova Ves this Saros region had a lot of Rusyns in it and the birth records and 1869 Slovakia census says the family was Greek Catholic hich is an indicator of being Rusyn....

        The Ivankos, Petruskas and Desatniks (all decendants) all say Greek Catholic. The Janos Kmecz/Kmetz the Petruskas GGma married says was Roman Catholic from Kokosovce according to that census. Perhaps all those lines were Rusyn and the Kmetz line is Slovak? It just blows my mind that they may be Rusyn at all, it just contradicts everything that was told about his grandma being Slovak and she herself calling herself Slovak...

        all though it does make more sense than as to how my mother in law says her parents would speak a different language to one another, she never knew what they were speaking. She was brought up believing they were Russian since her father attended the Russian orthodox church. But I have since discovered they were Rusyns from now Gorlice county.


        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Paul Sabol <pgsabol@...> wrote:
        >
        > I can't speak in generalities, but I can say my Sabol and Sabolcik ancestors from RNV were Rusyn and attended the Greek Catholic churches here when they got to America.
        >
        >  
        > Regards,
        >
        >
        > Paul G. Sabol
        >
        >
        > "Pain or damage don’t end the world, or despair or beatings. The world ends when you’re dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a manâ€"and give some back." - Al Swearingen
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: AnnieW <annduardo@...>
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 3:05 AM
        > Subject: [S-R] Ruska Nova Ves
        >
        >
        >  
        > Does anyone know off hand how heavily of an influence the Rusyns had in this area? Is Greek Catholic an indicator of this?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Philip Baer
        To my understanding, Rusyns were Slovak. My ancestors were also from RNV and were GK but some married RK women and seem to have changed religions. The LDS
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 5, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          To my understanding, Rusyns were Slovak. My ancestors were also from RNV and were GK but some married RK women and seem to have changed religions. The LDS records have "mixed marriages" and some indicated as "conversions". It seems that this was not uncommon. Comments?
          Philip (Medvecz) Baer

          Sent from my iPhone

          On Aug 5, 2012, at 9:08 AM, "AnnieW" <annduardo@...> wrote:

          > I'm getting a little confused... My husbands Ivanko/Kmetz family in Yonkers attended a roman catholic Slovak church and was always told his grandmother spoke slovak and prided on being Slovak. In fact im told the Slovak family didnt even like his GReek Catholic Rusyn Grandfathers family, his Gma married a Rusyn from the former Galicia. But now that I found his "Slovak" families birth records and ancestral village Ruska Nova Ves this Saros region had a lot of Rusyns in it and the birth records and 1869 Slovakia census says the family was Greek Catholic hich is an indicator of being Rusyn....
          >
          > The Ivankos, Petruskas and Desatniks (all decendants) all say Greek Catholic. The Janos Kmecz/Kmetz the Petruskas GGma married says was Roman Catholic from Kokosovce according to that census. Perhaps all those lines were Rusyn and the Kmetz line is Slovak? It just blows my mind that they may be Rusyn at all, it just contradicts everything that was told about his grandma being Slovak and she herself calling herself Slovak...
          >
          > all though it does make more sense than as to how my mother in law says her parents would speak a different language to one another, she never knew what they were speaking. She was brought up believing they were Russian since her father attended the Russian orthodox church. But I have since discovered they were Rusyns from now Gorlice county.
          >
          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Paul Sabol <pgsabol@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > I can't speak in generalities, but I can say my Sabol and Sabolcik ancestors from RNV were Rusyn and attended the Greek Catholic churches here when they got to America.
          > >
          > > Â
          > > Regards,
          > >
          > >
          > > Paul G. Sabol
          > >
          > >
          > > "Pain or damage don’t end the world, or despair or beatings. The world ends when you’re dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a manâ€"and give some back." - Al Swearingen
          > >
          > >
          > > ________________________________
          > > From: AnnieW <annduardo@...>
          > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 3:05 AM
          > > Subject: [S-R] Ruska Nova Ves
          > >
          > >
          > > Â
          > > Does anyone know off hand how heavily of an influence the Rusyns had in this area? Is Greek Catholic an indicator of this?
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • AnnieW
          I keep getting different answers. My husbands grandfathers side were Rusyns from now Poland and they erred on the side of calling themselves Russian. To me it
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 5, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            I keep getting different answers. My husbands grandfathers side were Rusyns from now Poland and they erred on the side of calling themselves Russian. To me it seems there must have been a mutual intelligibility between the far eastern Slovak dialects and that spoken by the Carpatho Rusyns but I have been also told they are two totally different languages and groups. I know Rusyns probably more so from Galicia used the Cyrillic alphabet but I heard recently from someone on hear I believe their Rusyn ancestor used the roman alphabet.
            In any case they are an interesting group of people!
            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Philip Baer <PHILBAER@...> wrote:
            >
            > To my understanding, Rusyns were Slovak. My ancestors were also from RNV and were GK but some married RK women and seem to have changed religions. The LDS records have "mixed marriages" and some indicated as "conversions". It seems that this was not uncommon. Comments?
            > Philip (Medvecz) Baer
            >
            > Sent from my iPhone
            >
            > On Aug 5, 2012, at 9:08 AM, "AnnieW" <annduardo@...> wrote:
            >
            > > I'm getting a little confused... My husbands Ivanko/Kmetz family in Yonkers attended a roman catholic Slovak church and was always told his grandmother spoke slovak and prided on being Slovak. In fact im told the Slovak family didnt even like his GReek Catholic Rusyn Grandfathers family, his Gma married a Rusyn from the former Galicia. But now that I found his "Slovak" families birth records and ancestral village Ruska Nova Ves this Saros region had a lot of Rusyns in it and the birth records and 1869 Slovakia census says the family was Greek Catholic hich is an indicator of being Rusyn....
            > >
            > > The Ivankos, Petruskas and Desatniks (all decendants) all say Greek Catholic. The Janos Kmecz/Kmetz the Petruskas GGma married says was Roman Catholic from Kokosovce according to that census. Perhaps all those lines were Rusyn and the Kmetz line is Slovak? It just blows my mind that they may be Rusyn at all, it just contradicts everything that was told about his grandma being Slovak and she herself calling herself Slovak...
            > >
            > > all though it does make more sense than as to how my mother in law says her parents would speak a different language to one another, she never knew what they were speaking. She was brought up believing they were Russian since her father attended the Russian orthodox church. But I have since discovered they were Rusyns from now Gorlice county.
            > >
            > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Paul Sabol <pgsabol@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I can't speak in generalities, but I can say my Sabol and Sabolcik ancestors from RNV were Rusyn and attended the Greek Catholic churches here when they got to America.
            > > >
            > > > Â
            > > > Regards,
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Paul G. Sabol
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > "Pain or damage don’t end the world, or despair or beatings. The world ends when you’re dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a manâ€"and give some back." - Al Swearingen
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ________________________________
            > > > From: AnnieW <annduardo@>
            > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > > > Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 3:05 AM
            > > > Subject: [S-R] Ruska Nova Ves
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Â
            > > > Does anyone know off hand how heavily of an influence the Rusyns had in this area? Is Greek Catholic an indicator of this?
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Sue Martin
            From the brenzovich.us web site, regarding the Carpatho-Rusyn people: Their language is an East-Slavic dialect and is written in the Cyrillic
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 5, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              From the brenzovich.us web site, regarding the Carpatho-Rusyn people:

              "Their language is an East-Slavic dialect and is written in the Cyrillic alphabet, developed in the 9th century by Saint Cyril. The Carpatho-Rusyn language is grammatically and etymologically related to the other East-Slavic languages of Russian, Byelorussian and in particular Ukrainian (many linguist consider the Carpatho-Rusyn language is a dialect of Ukrainian). However living in close proximity to the West-Slavic people of Poland and Slovakia, and the non-Slavic Hungarians; the Carpatho-Rusyn language has been influenced by these languages as well."

              I.e., it's a Slavic language, and would be able to be mutually understandable by Russians, Ukrainians, and possibly Slovaks as well.

              Sue

              -----Original Message-----
              From: "AnnieW" <annduardo@...>
              Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 10:48am
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [S-R] Re: Ruska Nova Ves







              I keep getting different answers. My husbands grandfathers side were Rusyns from now Poland and they erred on the side of calling themselves Russian. To me it seems there must have been a mutual intelligibility between the far eastern Slovak dialects and that spoken by the Carpatho Rusyns but I have been also told they are two totally different languages and groups. I know Rusyns probably more so from Galicia used the Cyrillic alphabet but I heard recently from someone on hear I believe their Rusyn ancestor used the roman alphabet.
              In any case they are an interesting group of people!
              --- In [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Philip Baer <PHILBAER@...> wrote:
              >
              > To my understanding, Rusyns were Slovak. My ancestors were also from RNV and were GK but some married RK women and seem to have changed religions. The LDS records have "mixed marriages" and some indicated as "conversions". It seems that this was not uncommon. Comments?
              > Philip (Medvecz) Baer
              >
              > Sent from my iPhone
              >
              > On Aug 5, 2012, at 9:08 AM, "AnnieW" <annduardo@...> wrote:
              >
              > > I'm getting a little confused... My husbands Ivanko/Kmetz family in Yonkers attended a roman catholic Slovak church and was always told his grandmother spoke slovak and prided on being Slovak. In fact im told the Slovak family didnt even like his GReek Catholic Rusyn Grandfathers family, his Gma married a Rusyn from the former Galicia. But now that I found his "Slovak" families birth records and ancestral village Ruska Nova Ves this Saros region had a lot of Rusyns in it and the birth records and 1869 Slovakia census says the family was Greek Catholic hich is an indicator of being Rusyn....
              > >
              > > The Ivankos, Petruskas and Desatniks (all decendants) all say Greek Catholic. The Janos Kmecz/Kmetz the Petruskas GGma married says was Roman Catholic from Kokosovce according to that census. Perhaps all those lines were Rusyn and the Kmetz line is Slovak? It just blows my mind that they may be Rusyn at all, it just contradicts everything that was told about his grandma being Slovak and she herself calling herself Slovak...
              > >
              > > all though it does make more sense than as to how my mother in law says her parents would speak a different language to one another, she never knew what they were speaking. She was brought up believing they were Russian since her father attended the Russian orthodox church. But I have since discovered they were Rusyns from now Gorlice county.
              > >
              > > --- In [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Paul Sabol <pgsabol@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I can't speak in generalities, but I can say my Sabol and Sabolcik ancestors from RNV were Rusyn and attended the Greek Catholic churches here when they got to America.
              > > >
              > > > Â
              > > > Regards,
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Paul G. Sabol
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > "Pain or damage don’t end the world, or despair or beatings. The world ends when you’re dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a manâ€"and give some back." - Al Swearingen
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ________________________________
              > > > From: AnnieW <annduardo@>
              > > > To: [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > > > Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 3:05 AM
              > > > Subject: [S-R] Ruska Nova Ves
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Â
              > > > Does anyone know off hand how heavily of an influence the Rusyns had in this area? Is Greek Catholic an indicator of this?
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ben Sorensen
              The Rusyn question is an interesting one- those who identify themselves as such may use either alphabet, speak a dialect as well as the official language,
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 5, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                The Rusyn question is an interesting one- those who identify themselves as such may use either alphabet, speak a dialect as well as the "official" language, and are often Greek Catholic or Orthodox. But the stances on what constitutes being Rusyn is much more stringent in the USA than in Slovakia (oddly enough). There are agendas that are more likely to be pushed in the New Country than in the Old- language, religion, heritage- even though they are still extant in the Old Country. People in the USA are more fervent about it, and are very likely to separate Slovak from Rusyn (but not, for example, Zvolencan from Spisiak). In Slovakia, the identity is more fluid, more grey... for example, in our family, Babka (who is about 95) is considered a Rusynka, but her son is not a Rusyn (because of culture, not because of bloodline). My kids are NOT Rusyn even though the grandparents on my wife's side were both from Rusyn families. That does not make her 1/2
                Rusyn.... but in the USA, people would argue that it does. But all Rusyns in Slovakia are Slovak.

                The truth is that understanding the nuance of cultural identity is not going to be accurate here in the USA. We have preconceived notions about this aspect of life; Slovaks do as well, but the notions do not fit well here. 

                Some people hear Spis, and think it is Rusyn. Rusyns from one area were different in culture from those in another area. In short, to get a handle on this issue, I am of the opinion that one has to travel there and come to an understanding first-hand.

                Ben


                ________________________________
                From: AnnieW <annduardo@...>
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 10:48 AM
                Subject: [S-R] Re: Ruska Nova Ves


                 

                I keep getting different answers. My husbands grandfathers side were Rusyns from now Poland and they erred on the side of calling themselves Russian. To me it seems there must have been a mutual intelligibility between the far eastern Slovak dialects and that spoken by the Carpatho Rusyns but I have been also told they are two totally different languages and groups. I know Rusyns probably more so from Galicia used the Cyrillic alphabet but I heard recently from someone on hear I believe their Rusyn ancestor used the roman alphabet.
                In any case they are an interesting group of people!
                --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Philip Baer <PHILBAER@...> wrote:
                >
                > To my understanding, Rusyns were Slovak. My ancestors were also from RNV and were GK but some married RK women and seem to have changed religions. The LDS records have "mixed marriages" and some indicated as "conversions". It seems that this was not uncommon. Comments?
                > Philip (Medvecz) Baer
                >
                > Sent from my iPhone
                >
                > On Aug 5, 2012, at 9:08 AM, "AnnieW" <annduardo@...> wrote:
                >
                > > I'm getting a little confused... My husbands Ivanko/Kmetz family in Yonkers attended a roman catholic Slovak church and was always told his grandmother spoke slovak and prided on being Slovak. In fact im told the Slovak family didnt even like his GReek Catholic Rusyn Grandfathers family, his Gma married a Rusyn from the former Galicia. But now that I found his "Slovak" families birth records and ancestral village Ruska Nova Ves this Saros region had a lot of Rusyns in it and the birth records and 1869 Slovakia census says the family was Greek Catholic hich is an indicator of being Rusyn....
                > >
                > > The Ivankos, Petruskas and Desatniks (all decendants) all say Greek Catholic. The Janos Kmecz/Kmetz the Petruskas GGma married says was Roman Catholic from Kokosovce according to that census. Perhaps all those lines were Rusyn and the Kmetz line is Slovak? It just blows my mind that they may be Rusyn at all, it just contradicts everything that was told about his grandma being Slovak and she herself calling herself Slovak...
                > >
                > > all though it does make more sense than as to how my mother in law says her parents would speak a different language to one another, she never knew what they were speaking. She was brought up believing they were Russian since her father attended the Russian orthodox church. But I have since discovered they were Rusyns from now Gorlice county.
                > >
                > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Paul Sabol <pgsabol@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > I can't speak in generalities, but I can say my Sabol and Sabolcik ancestors from RNV were Rusyn and attended the Greek Catholic churches here when they got to America.
                > > >
                > > > Â
                > > > Regards,
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Paul G. Sabol
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > "Pain or damage don’t end the world, or despair or beatings. The world ends when you’re dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a manâ€"and give some back." - Al Swearingen
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ________________________________
                > > > From: AnnieW <annduardo@>
                > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 3:05 AM
                > > > Subject: [S-R] Ruska Nova Ves
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Â
                > > > Does anyone know off hand how heavily of an influence the Rusyns had in this area? Is Greek Catholic an indicator of this?
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ben Sorensen
                To a point, Sue. Russian and Slovak are not the same-- and there is just enough alike in the languages to cause serious misunderstandings. It is very much the
                Message 7 of 14 , Aug 5, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  To a point, Sue. Russian and Slovak are not the same-- and there is just enough alike in the languages to cause serious misunderstandings. It is very much the same between Slovak and Rusyn... they are not as mutually understandable as one would first think. 
                  Ben


                  ________________________________
                  From: Sue Martin <martin@...>
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 10:55 AM
                  Subject: RE: [S-R] Re: Ruska Nova Ves


                   

                  From the brenzovich.us web site, regarding the Carpatho-Rusyn people:

                  "Their language is an East-Slavic dialect and is written in the Cyrillic alphabet, developed in the 9th century by Saint Cyril. The Carpatho-Rusyn language is grammatically and etymologically related to the other East-Slavic languages of Russian, Byelorussian and in particular Ukrainian (many linguist consider the Carpatho-Rusyn language is a dialect of Ukrainian). However living in close proximity to the West-Slavic people of Poland and Slovakia, and the non-Slavic Hungarians; the Carpatho-Rusyn language has been influenced by these languages as well."

                  I.e., it's a Slavic language, and would be able to be mutually understandable by Russians, Ukrainians, and possibly Slovaks as well.

                  Sue

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: "AnnieW" <annduardo@...>
                  Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 10:48am
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [S-R] Re: Ruska Nova Ves

                  I keep getting different answers. My husbands grandfathers side were Rusyns from now Poland and they erred on the side of calling themselves Russian. To me it seems there must have been a mutual intelligibility between the far eastern Slovak dialects and that spoken by the Carpatho Rusyns but I have been also told they are two totally different languages and groups. I know Rusyns probably more so from Galicia used the Cyrillic alphabet but I heard recently from someone on hear I believe their Rusyn ancestor used the roman alphabet.
                  In any case they are an interesting group of people!
                  --- In [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Philip Baer <PHILBAER@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > To my understanding, Rusyns were Slovak. My ancestors were also from RNV and were GK but some married RK women and seem to have changed religions. The LDS records have "mixed marriages" and some indicated as "conversions". It seems that this was not uncommon. Comments?
                  > Philip (Medvecz) Baer
                  >
                  > Sent from my iPhone
                  >
                  > On Aug 5, 2012, at 9:08 AM, "AnnieW" <annduardo@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > I'm getting a little confused... My husbands Ivanko/Kmetz family in Yonkers attended a roman catholic Slovak church and was always told his grandmother spoke slovak and prided on being Slovak. In fact im told the Slovak family didnt even like his GReek Catholic Rusyn Grandfathers family, his Gma married a Rusyn from the former Galicia. But now that I found his "Slovak" families birth records and ancestral village Ruska Nova Ves this Saros region had a lot of Rusyns in it and the birth records and 1869 Slovakia census says the family was Greek Catholic hich is an indicator of being Rusyn....
                  > >
                  > > The Ivankos, Petruskas and Desatniks (all decendants) all say Greek Catholic. The Janos Kmecz/Kmetz the Petruskas GGma married says was Roman Catholic from Kokosovce according to that census. Perhaps all those lines were Rusyn and the Kmetz line is Slovak? It just blows my mind that they may be Rusyn at all, it just contradicts everything that was told about his grandma being Slovak and she herself calling herself Slovak...
                  > >
                  > > all though it does make more sense than as to how my mother in law says her parents would speak a different language to one another, she never knew what they were speaking. She was brought up believing they were Russian since her father attended the Russian orthodox church. But I have since discovered they were Rusyns from now Gorlice county.
                  > >
                  > > --- In [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Paul Sabol <pgsabol@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > I can't speak in generalities, but I can say my Sabol and Sabolcik ancestors from RNV were Rusyn and attended the Greek Catholic churches here when they got to America.
                  > > >
                  > > > Â
                  > > > Regards,
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Paul G. Sabol
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > "Pain or damage don’t end the world, or despair or beatings. The world ends when you’re dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a manâ€"and give some back." - Al Swearingen
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ________________________________
                  > > > From: AnnieW <annduardo@>
                  > > > To: [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com] SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 3:05 AM
                  > > > Subject: [S-R] Ruska Nova Ves
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Â
                  > > > Does anyone know off hand how heavily of an influence the Rusyns had in this area? Is Greek Catholic an indicator of this?
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • AnnieW
                  Thank you Ben that was a great response.
                  Message 8 of 14 , Aug 5, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thank you Ben that was a great response.

                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The Rusyn question is an interesting one- those who identify themselves as such may use either alphabet, speak a dialect as well as the "official" language, and are often Greek Catholic or Orthodox. But the stances on what constitutes being Rusyn is much more stringent in the USA than in Slovakia (oddly enough). There are agendas that are more likely to be pushed in the New Country than in the Old- language, religion, heritage- even though they are still extant in the Old Country. People in the USA are more fervent about it, and are very likely to separate Slovak from Rusyn (but not, for example, Zvolencan from Spisiak). In Slovakia, the identity is more fluid, more grey... for example, in our family, Babka (who is about 95) is considered a Rusynka, but her son is not a Rusyn (because of culture, not because of bloodline). My kids are NOT Rusyn even though the grandparents on my wife's side were both from Rusyn families. That does not make her 1/2
                    > Rusyn.... but in the USA, people would argue that it does. But all Rusyns in Slovakia are Slovak.
                    >
                    > The truth is that understanding the nuance of cultural identity is not going to be accurate here in the USA. We have preconceived notions about this aspect of life; Slovaks do as well, but the notions do not fit well here. 
                    >
                    > Some people hear Spis, and think it is Rusyn. Rusyns from one area were different in culture from those in another area. In short, to get a handle on this issue, I am of the opinion that one has to travel there and come to an understanding first-hand.
                    >
                    > Ben
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: AnnieW <annduardo@...>
                    > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 10:48 AM
                    > Subject: [S-R] Re: Ruska Nova Ves
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    >
                    > I keep getting different answers. My husbands grandfathers side were Rusyns from now Poland and they erred on the side of calling themselves Russian. To me it seems there must have been a mutual intelligibility between the far eastern Slovak dialects and that spoken by the Carpatho Rusyns but I have been also told they are two totally different languages and groups. I know Rusyns probably more so from Galicia used the Cyrillic alphabet but I heard recently from someone on hear I believe their Rusyn ancestor used the roman alphabet.
                    > In any case they are an interesting group of people!
                    > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Philip Baer <PHILBAER@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > To my understanding, Rusyns were Slovak. My ancestors were also from RNV and were GK but some married RK women and seem to have changed religions. The LDS records have "mixed marriages" and some indicated as "conversions". It seems that this was not uncommon. Comments?
                    > > Philip (Medvecz) Baer
                    > >
                    > > Sent from my iPhone
                    > >
                    > > On Aug 5, 2012, at 9:08 AM, "AnnieW" <annduardo@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > I'm getting a little confused... My husbands Ivanko/Kmetz family in Yonkers attended a roman catholic Slovak church and was always told his grandmother spoke slovak and prided on being Slovak. In fact im told the Slovak family didnt even like his GReek Catholic Rusyn Grandfathers family, his Gma married a Rusyn from the former Galicia. But now that I found his "Slovak" families birth records and ancestral village Ruska Nova Ves this Saros region had a lot of Rusyns in it and the birth records and 1869 Slovakia census says the family was Greek Catholic hich is an indicator of being Rusyn....
                    > > >
                    > > > The Ivankos, Petruskas and Desatniks (all decendants) all say Greek Catholic. The Janos Kmecz/Kmetz the Petruskas GGma married says was Roman Catholic from Kokosovce according to that census. Perhaps all those lines were Rusyn and the Kmetz line is Slovak? It just blows my mind that they may be Rusyn at all, it just contradicts everything that was told about his grandma being Slovak and she herself calling herself Slovak...
                    > > >
                    > > > all though it does make more sense than as to how my mother in law says her parents would speak a different language to one another, she never knew what they were speaking. She was brought up believing they were Russian since her father attended the Russian orthodox church. But I have since discovered they were Rusyns from now Gorlice county.
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Paul Sabol <pgsabol@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I can't speak in generalities, but I can say my Sabol and Sabolcik ancestors from RNV were Rusyn and attended the Greek Catholic churches here when they got to America.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Â
                    > > > > Regards,
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Paul G. Sabol
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > "Pain or damage don’t end the world, or despair or beatings. The world ends when you’re dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a manâ€"and give some back." - Al Swearingen
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > ________________________________
                    > > > > From: AnnieW <annduardo@>
                    > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 3:05 AM
                    > > > > Subject: [S-R] Ruska Nova Ves
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Â
                    > > > > Does anyone know off hand how heavily of an influence the Rusyns had in this area? Is Greek Catholic an indicator of this?
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • William C. Wormuth
                    Annie, The following was told to me by some members of the Russian Orthodox Church in Cohos, NY, whose members were Lemko immigrants from Galicia.: During the
                    Message 9 of 14 , Aug 5, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Annie,

                      The following was told to me by some members of the Russian Orthodox Church in Cohos, NY, whose members were Lemko immigrants from Galicia.:


                      During the Immigration period, Greek Catholic Byzantines requested diocesan Bishops permission to send for priests from Slovakia to build Rusyn Byzantine churches and staff them with priests from Slovakia.

                      Bishops at that time refused, because many of the priests might be married, and not accepted in the Roman Catholic rites.  The people decided to leave the Church of Rome and form their own Hierarchical Rusyn Orthodox Churches.  

                      Since they were Rusyn, they used the only translation of their nationality, calling themselves "Russian", thus Russian Orthodox.

                      It is confusing to me because the Church of St. Michael, in Binghamtom NY is called Greek Catholic.  There was a Split of Parishioners and that group built Holy Spirit Greek Catholic Byzantine, (Uniate), Church.

                      I was happy to read in the Jednota newspaper, (within the last couple of years), a married priest and his wife,  

                      toured some Byzantine Uniate churches.  

                      My opinion is that if  Roman Catholic churches had allowed married priests, we would not have suffered the church closings due to the present lack of priests.

                      I am not an authority and  if there is disagreement please respond in the SW site. 


                      Z Bohom,

                      Vilo





                      ________________________________
                      From: AnnieW <annduardo@...>
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 10:08 AM
                      Subject: [S-R] Re: Ruska Nova Ves


                       
                      I'm getting a little confused... My husbands Ivanko/Kmetz family in Yonkers attended a roman catholic Slovak church and was always told his grandmother spoke slovak and prided on being Slovak. In fact im told the Slovak family didnt even like his GReek Catholic Rusyn Grandfathers family, his Gma married a Rusyn from the former Galicia. But now that I found his "Slovak" families birth records and ancestral village Ruska Nova Ves this Saros region had a lot of Rusyns in it and the birth records and 1869 Slovakia census says the family was Greek Catholic hich is an indicator of being Rusyn....

                      The Ivankos, Petruskas and Desatniks (all decendants) all say Greek Catholic. The Janos Kmecz/Kmetz the Petruskas GGma married says was Roman Catholic from Kokosovce according to that census. Perhaps all those lines were Rusyn and the Kmetz line is Slovak? It just blows my mind that they may be Rusyn at all, it just contradicts everything that was told about his grandma being Slovak and she herself calling herself Slovak...

                      all though it does make more sense than as to how my mother in law says her parents would speak a different language to one another, she never knew what they were speaking. She was brought up believing they were Russian since her father attended the Russian orthodox church. But I have since discovered they were Rusyns from now Gorlice county.

                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Paul Sabol <pgsabol@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I can't speak in generalities, but I can say my Sabol and Sabolcik ancestors from RNV were Rusyn and attended the Greek Catholic churches here when they got to America.
                      >
                      >  
                      > Regards,
                      >
                      >
                      > Paul G. Sabol
                      >
                      >
                      > "Pain or damage don’t end the world, or despair or beatings. The world ends when you’re dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a manâ€"and give some back." - Al Swearingen
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: AnnieW <annduardo@...>
                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 3:05 AM
                      > Subject: [S-R] Ruska Nova Ves
                      >
                      >
                      >  
                      > Does anyone know off hand how heavily of an influence the Rusyns had in this area? Is Greek Catholic an indicator of this?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • William C. Wormuth
                      My grandparents spoke Hungarian and German and conversed in both languages when discussing issues which were not for our young ears. z Bohom, Vilo
                      Message 10 of 14 , Aug 5, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        My grandparents spoke Hungarian and German and conversed in both languages when discussing issues which were not for our young ears.

                        z Bohom,

                        Vilo



                        ________________________________
                        From: AnnieW <annduardo@...>
                        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 10:48 AM
                        Subject: [S-R] Re: Ruska Nova Ves


                         

                        I keep getting different answers. My husbands grandfathers side were Rusyns from now Poland and they erred on the side of calling themselves Russian. To me it seems there must have been a mutual intelligibility between the far eastern Slovak dialects and that spoken by the Carpatho Rusyns but I have been also told they are two totally different languages and groups. I know Rusyns probably more so from Galicia used the Cyrillic alphabet but I heard recently from someone on hear I believe their Rusyn ancestor used the roman alphabet.
                        In any case they are an interesting group of people!
                        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Philip Baer <PHILBAER@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > To my understanding, Rusyns were Slovak. My ancestors were also from RNV and were GK but some married RK women and seem to have changed religions. The LDS records have "mixed marriages" and some indicated as "conversions". It seems that this was not uncommon. Comments?
                        > Philip (Medvecz) Baer
                        >
                        > Sent from my iPhone
                        >
                        > On Aug 5, 2012, at 9:08 AM, "AnnieW" <annduardo@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > I'm getting a little confused... My husbands Ivanko/Kmetz family in Yonkers attended a roman catholic Slovak church and was always told his grandmother spoke slovak and prided on being Slovak. In fact im told the Slovak family didnt even like his GReek Catholic Rusyn Grandfathers family, his Gma married a Rusyn from the former Galicia. But now that I found his "Slovak" families birth records and ancestral village Ruska Nova Ves this Saros region had a lot of Rusyns in it and the birth records and 1869 Slovakia census says the family was Greek Catholic hich is an indicator of being Rusyn....
                        > >
                        > > The Ivankos, Petruskas and Desatniks (all decendants) all say Greek Catholic. The Janos Kmecz/Kmetz the Petruskas GGma married says was Roman Catholic from Kokosovce according to that census. Perhaps all those lines were Rusyn and the Kmetz line is Slovak? It just blows my mind that they may be Rusyn at all, it just contradicts everything that was told about his grandma being Slovak and she herself calling herself Slovak...
                        > >
                        > > all though it does make more sense than as to how my mother in law says her parents would speak a different language to one another, she never knew what they were speaking. She was brought up believing they were Russian since her father attended the Russian orthodox church. But I have since discovered they were Rusyns from now Gorlice county.
                        > >
                        > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Paul Sabol <pgsabol@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > I can't speak in generalities, but I can say my Sabol and Sabolcik ancestors from RNV were Rusyn and attended the Greek Catholic churches here when they got to America.
                        > > >
                        > > > Â
                        > > > Regards,
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Paul G. Sabol
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > "Pain or damage don’t end the world, or despair or beatings. The world ends when you’re dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a manâ€"and give some back." - Al Swearingen
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > ________________________________
                        > > > From: AnnieW <annduardo@>
                        > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 3:05 AM
                        > > > Subject: [S-R] Ruska Nova Ves
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Â
                        > > > Does anyone know off hand how heavily of an influence the Rusyns had in this area? Is Greek Catholic an indicator of this?
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Ron
                        Wow, Just was in the middle of an answer and Yahoo came up with some floating message system that took over my screen as I wrote. This is my third attempt to
                        Message 11 of 14 , Aug 5, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Wow, Just was in the middle of an answer and Yahoo came up with some floating message system that took over my screen as I wrote. This is my third attempt to write this....

                          From the 1877 Gazetteer of Hungary:
                          Ruska Nova Ves was called Soosujfalu (single accent over the second o)

                          Soosujfalu, Saros/Siroka. {Ruszkanowawes} Now: Ruska Nova Ves, SlRp. RCath: Sovar - 2; GkCath: EPERJES - 550; Izr: - 5.

                          This is interpreted as:

                          Soosujfalu, - as it was called in 1877
                          Saros/Siroka. county and district
                          {Ruszkanowawes} alternate name
                          Now: Ruska Nova Ves, SlRp. current name, in Slovak Republic
                          RCath: Sovar - 2; 2 Roman Catholics who attended services in Sovar
                          GkCath: EPERJES - 550; Greek Cath. church in town, belonging to the Eperjes/ Presov diocese
                          Izr: - 5. 5 Jewish (Israelite) residents

                          Welcome to the world of Carpatho-Rusyn with all of our complex history and conflicting information! I was born and raised in the USA as a good Slovak boy and found out at age 50 that I am at least half Rusyn. I have confirmed it multiple ways, with cousins in the Old Village, who also confirmed that our Rus have nothing to do with the Moscow Rus or Russian, even though it is so often confused in the USA.

                          100 to 200 years ago the concepts of national identification were just developing in many countries, and the emigration to the USA started before the Rusyn had a chance to solidify theirs. The process is ongoing today.

                          With two alphabets (Cyrillic and Latin; my village of Sulin (Sulyn in Rusyn orthography) used the Latin alphabet for Rusyn writings and prayer books) and all of the changes in spelling convention in the last 200 years, complicated by grammatical changes in spelling and endings, I cannot speculate that Russkii or Ruskie in 1890 refers to Russian or to Rusyn, or Rusin as it was once spelled. Personally I like the plural Rusini today, but convention calls for y in place of some I's.

                          Ron





                          --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "AnnieW" <annduardo@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Does anyone know off hand how heavily of an influence the Rusyns had in this area? Is Greek Catholic an indicator of this?
                          >
                        • AnnieW
                          Thank you everyone for your responses I find this this topic very interesting. I m slowly finding out more and more about the Rusyn side of the family, and
                          Message 12 of 14 , Aug 5, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Thank you everyone for your responses I find this this topic very interesting. I'm slowly finding out more and more about the Rusyn side of the family, and like Ron no one had any idea they were Rusyn until I started doing the research! I hope to go to the Carpatho-Rusyn museum in PA sometime soon.

                            --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Wow, Just was in the middle of an answer and Yahoo came up with some floating message system that took over my screen as I wrote. This is my third attempt to write this....
                            >
                            > From the 1877 Gazetteer of Hungary:
                            > Ruska Nova Ves was called Soosujfalu (single accent over the second o)
                            >
                            > Soosujfalu, Saros/Siroka. {Ruszkanowawes} Now: Ruska Nova Ves, SlRp. RCath: Sovar - 2; GkCath: EPERJES - 550; Izr: - 5.
                            >
                            > This is interpreted as:
                            >
                            > Soosujfalu, - as it was called in 1877
                            > Saros/Siroka. county and district
                            > {Ruszkanowawes} alternate name
                            > Now: Ruska Nova Ves, SlRp. current name, in Slovak Republic
                            > RCath: Sovar - 2; 2 Roman Catholics who attended services in Sovar
                            > GkCath: EPERJES - 550; Greek Cath. church in town, belonging to the Eperjes/ Presov diocese
                            > Izr: - 5. 5 Jewish (Israelite) residents
                            >
                            > Welcome to the world of Carpatho-Rusyn with all of our complex history and conflicting information! I was born and raised in the USA as a good Slovak boy and found out at age 50 that I am at least half Rusyn. I have confirmed it multiple ways, with cousins in the Old Village, who also confirmed that our Rus have nothing to do with the Moscow Rus or Russian, even though it is so often confused in the USA.
                            >
                            > 100 to 200 years ago the concepts of national identification were just developing in many countries, and the emigration to the USA started before the Rusyn had a chance to solidify theirs. The process is ongoing today.
                            >
                            > With two alphabets (Cyrillic and Latin; my village of Sulin (Sulyn in Rusyn orthography) used the Latin alphabet for Rusyn writings and prayer books) and all of the changes in spelling convention in the last 200 years, complicated by grammatical changes in spelling and endings, I cannot speculate that Russkii or Ruskie in 1890 refers to Russian or to Rusyn, or Rusin as it was once spelled. Personally I like the plural Rusini today, but convention calls for y in place of some I's.
                            >
                            > Ron
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "AnnieW" <annduardo@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Does anyone know off hand how heavily of an influence the Rusyns had in this area? Is Greek Catholic an indicator of this?
                            > >
                            >
                          • Elaine
                            Ron, the background you ve provided is very helpful, especially to those of us with family from eastern Slovakia but not Rusyn. To anyone on this forum who has
                            Message 13 of 14 , Aug 5, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Ron, the background you've provided is very helpful, especially to those of us with family from eastern Slovakia but not Rusyn.

                              To anyone on this forum who has family who was Greek Catholic, I encourage you to do some indexing of the Slovak records currently listed on Family Search. Since I found both my Roman Catholic maternal lines either via microfilm or, more recently, in the LDS FamilySearch general search function, I wanted to give back by indexing records marked as "Slovensky-...." (Sorry, I don't remember the rest, it's a long title!). The listing says these records are in German, but that is not correct, they are eastern Slovakian 1800s Greek Catholic records in Latin. Some of them have been in Cyrillic; I had to send those back.

                              Recently, I saw a Wiki update that said 1.9 million Slovak records (I may be a little off on this, but for sure it was over a million) had been indexed. Possibly these were originally marked as Hungarian, since so many of the church records were in that language. When I last searched, my families from eastern Slovakian towns did not appear when I searched for them, so they are not yet indexed.

                              I'd love to "compare notes" if anyone else has been indexing!

                              Elaine

                              On Aug 5, 2012, at 1:27 PM, "Ron" <amiak27@...> wrote:

                              > Wow, Just was in the middle of an answer and Yahoo came up with some floating message system that took over my screen as I wrote. This is my third attempt to write this....
                              >
                              > From the 1877 Gazetteer of Hungary:
                              > Ruska Nova Ves was called Soosujfalu (single accent over the second o)
                              >
                              > Soosujfalu, Saros/Siroka. {Ruszkanowawes} Now: Ruska Nova Ves, SlRp. RCath: Sovar - 2; GkCath: EPERJES - 550; Izr: - 5.
                              >
                              > This is interpreted as:
                              >
                              > Soosujfalu, - as it was called in 1877
                              > Saros/Siroka. county and district
                              > {Ruszkanowawes} alternate name
                              > Now: Ruska Nova Ves, SlRp. current name, in Slovak Republic
                              > RCath: Sovar - 2; 2 Roman Catholics who attended services in Sovar
                              > GkCath: EPERJES - 550; Greek Cath. church in town, belonging to the Eperjes/ Presov diocese
                              > Izr: - 5. 5 Jewish (Israelite) residents
                              >
                              > Welcome to the world of Carpatho-Rusyn with all of our complex history and conflicting information! I was born and raised in the USA as a good Slovak boy and found out at age 50 that I am at least half Rusyn. I have confirmed it multiple ways, with cousins in the Old Village, who also confirmed that our Rus have nothing to do with the Moscow Rus or Russian, even though it is so often confused in the USA.
                              >
                              > 100 to 200 years ago the concepts of national identification were just developing in many countries, and the emigration to the USA started before the Rusyn had a chance to solidify theirs. The process is ongoing today.
                              >
                              > With two alphabets (Cyrillic and Latin; my village of Sulin (Sulyn in Rusyn orthography) used the Latin alphabet for Rusyn writings and prayer books) and all of the changes in spelling convention in the last 200 years, complicated by grammatical changes in spelling and endings, I cannot speculate that Russkii or Ruskie in 1890 refers to Russian or to Rusyn, or Rusin as it was once spelled. Personally I like the plural Rusini today, but convention calls for y in place of some I's.
                              >
                              > Ron
                              >
                              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "AnnieW" <annduardo@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Does anyone know off hand how heavily of an influence the Rusyns had in this area? Is Greek Catholic an indicator of this?
                              > >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.