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Re: [S-R] Josif Stucka, Stuczka

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  • Michael Mojher
    In the 2005 Jakubany telephone directory they had these listings: Stucka Sztuczka Stuczka Stucka Sztuczka Stuczka Stucka Sztuczka Stuczka Stucka Sztuczka
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 3, 2012
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      In the 2005 Jakubany telephone directory they had these listings: Stucka Sztuczka Stuczka Stucka Sztuczka Stuczka Stucka Sztuczka Stuczka Stucka Sztuczka Stuczka Stuckova Sztuczkova Stuczkova. Those ending in “ova” are the feminine form of the surname.

      The variety of spellings are a result of the Magyarization period in the middle 1800’s until WWI. The Hungarian government would only let Hungarian be used in all official business. This required that the Slovaks take on a Hungarian spelling of their surname. One of the obvious features of a Hungarian spelling is the use of “sz” and “cz” where in Slovak there would just be a “s” or “c”. After the fall of the Austro-Hungarian Empire the Slovaks could revert back to the original spelling of their surname. Some, for what ever reason held on to the Hungarian spelling. Finally, it got to the point where people who are related to one another but used a different surname created separate of completely different family ties. So by the 21st century each spelling now is virtually its own “family” and does not recognize the other spelling as being in the family.

      The catch for finding your family line is knowing which spelling was continued by Josef/Josif. That is where his marriage can verify what spelling he used. The 1995 Census has no listing for the surname Verka. And another reliable sight doesn’t have it either. Vierka is a version of the given name Veronica

      From: stibila@...
      Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 7:55 AM
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [S-R] Josif Stucka, Stuczka


      Josif, Joseph, was born in Jakubany to Joannes Stucka, Stuczka, and Anna Marchevka, Marhefka. Josif was born in 1929 and is my Mother's brother. He moved to Czechoslovakia, somewhere around 1945 but before 1970. His wife was Maria, last name maybe Verka. They had 4 daughters. He may still be alive but we have no way of communicating with relatives in Jakubany. If any one knows anything about Josif, please post to the message board. Someone did send me 2 Stucka phone numbers in Czech Republic and I called them, but they did not speak English.





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • William C. Wormuth
      Hungarian, Stuczka [Shtuhts-kah].  Slovak, S~tuc ka[Shtuhts-kah]. Joseph, Latin Josephus [Yohseh-fuhs]. Slovak Josef [Yoh-sehf] and Jozef [Yoh-zef]. Hungarian
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 3, 2012
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        Hungarian, Stuczka [Shtuhts-kah].  Slovak, S~tuc ka[Shtuhts-kah]. Joseph, Latin Josephus [Yohseh-fuhs]. Slovak Josef [Yoh-sehf] and Jozef [Yoh-zef]. Hungarian Jozsef [Yoh-zhehf].



        ________________________________
        From: Michael Mojher <mgmojher@...>
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 11:52 PM
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Josif Stucka, Stuczka


         
        In the 2005 Jakubany telephone directory they had these listings: Stucka Sztuczka Stuczka Stucka Sztuczka Stuczka Stucka Sztuczka Stuczka Stucka Sztuczka Stuczka Stuckova Sztuczkova Stuczkova. Those ending in “ova” are the feminine form of the surname.

        The variety of spellings are a result of the Magyarization period in the middle 1800’s until WWI. The Hungarian government would only let Hungarian be used in all official business. This required that the Slovaks take on a Hungarian spelling of their surname. One of the obvious features of a Hungarian spelling is the use of “sz” and “cz” where in Slovak there would just be a “s” or “c”. After the fall of the Austro-Hungarian Empire the Slovaks could revert back to the original spelling of their surname. Some, for what ever reason held on to the Hungarian spelling. Finally, it got to the point where people who are related to one another but used a different surname created separate of completely different family ties. So by the 21st century each spelling now is virtually its own “family” and does not recognize the other spelling as being in the family.

        The catch for finding your family line is knowing which spelling was continued by Josef/Josif. That is where his marriage can verify what spelling he used. The 1995 Census has no listing for the surname Verka. And another reliable sight doesn’t have it either. Vierka is a version of the given name Veronica

        From: stibila@...
        Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 7:55 AM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [S-R] Josif Stucka, Stuczka

        Josif, Joseph, was born in Jakubany to Joannes Stucka, Stuczka, and Anna Marchevka, Marhefka. Josif was born in 1929 and is my Mother's brother. He moved to Czechoslovakia, somewhere around 1945 but before 1970. His wife was Maria, last name maybe Verka. They had 4 daughters. He may still be alive but we have no way of communicating with relatives in Jakubany. If any one knows anything about Josif, please post to the message board. Someone did send me 2 Stucka phone numbers in Czech Republic and I called them, but they did not speak English.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • William C. Wormuth
        Marchevka [Mahrrkhehv-kah]. http://telefonny.zoznam.sk/Marchevka/Jakubany/ ________________________________ From: stibila@sbcglobal.net
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 3, 2012
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          Marchevka [Mahrrkhehv-kah]. http://telefonny.zoznam.sk/Marchevka/Jakubany/



          ________________________________
          From: "stibila@..." <stibila@...>
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 10:55 AM
          Subject: [S-R] Josif Stucka, Stuczka


           
          Josif, Joseph, was born in Jakubany to Joannes Stucka, Stuczka, and Anna Marchevka, Marhefka. Josif was born in 1929 and is my Mother's brother. He moved to Czechoslovakia, somewhere around 1945 but before 1970. His wife was Maria, last name maybe Verka. They had 4 daughters. He may still be alive but we have no way of communicating with relatives in Jakubany. If any one knows anything about Josif, please post to the message board. Someone did send me 2 Stucka phone numbers in Czech Republic and I called them, but they did not speak English.




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • htcstech
          Vilo, Marchevka [Mahrrkhehv-kah] - From my readings, I m pretty sure that this name is based on the German *Mähren* - mährische for Moravian. So the name
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 3, 2012
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            Vilo, Marchevka [Mahrrkhehv-kah] - From my readings, I'm pretty sure that
            this name is based on the German *Mähren* -> mährische for Moravian. So
            the name Marchevka and Marhefka are related in this way.
            I'm interested in this name as I think it is related to Morav (Slav)
            versions - eg Moravka - Moravko - Morafko - Marafko and so on.
            Do you think this is a possiblity?

            Peter M.

            On 4 July 2012 15:22, William C. Wormuth <senzus@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > Marchevka [Mahrrkhehv-kah]. http://telefonny.zoznam.sk/Marchevka/Jakubany/
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: "stibila@..." <stibila@...>
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 10:55 AM
            >
            > Subject: [S-R] Josif Stucka, Stuczka
            >
            >
            >
            > Josif, Joseph, was born in Jakubany to Joannes Stucka, Stuczka, and Anna
            > Marchevka, Marhefka. Josif was born in 1929 and is my Mother's brother. He
            > moved to Czechoslovakia, somewhere around 1945 but before 1970. His wife
            > was Maria, last name maybe Verka. They had 4 daughters. He may still be
            > alive but we have no way of communicating with relatives in Jakubany. If
            > any one knows anything about Josif, please post to the message board.
            > Someone did send me 2 Stucka phone numbers in Czech Republic and I called
            > them, but they did not speak English.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ron
            For anyone having trouble reading this or any message with accent marks, go to View , Character Encoding and choose UTF-8 Peter, what readings lead you to
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 4, 2012
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              For anyone having trouble reading this or any message with accent marks, go to "View", "Character Encoding" and choose "UTF-8"

              Peter, what readings lead you to believe Marchevka is based on German? I am fluent in German and working on learning Slovak, so I am familiar with how similar some of the words can be in different languages and how easy it is to err in ascribing certain relationships.

              It is handy to check things on www.google.de to get a German perspective, which is often closer to the usual European view, as opposed to our views from the USA. Sometimes there is much more detailed information as well on topics closer to the European heart.

              In this case a quick look at the German Wiki entry yields "Die March (tschechisch und slowakisch Morava, lat. Marus) ist ein linker Nebenfluss der Donau in Mitteleuropa. Sie entwässert etwa drei Viertel des nach ihr benannten Mähren und ist dessen Hauptfluss."

              and that does not even address the other Morava River in Serbia,
              "Die Morava (serbisch Ð'елика Морава/Velika Morava, deutsch auch Große Morava) ist ein rechter Nebenfluss der Donau und Hauptfluss Serbiens."

              Also, why would you take it to the German and not to the older Latin?

              Ron


              --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:
              >
              > Vilo, Marchevka [Mahrrkhehv-kah] - From my readings, I'm pretty sure that > this name is based on the German *Mähren* -> mährische for Moravian. So > the name Marchevka and Marhefka are related in this way.
              > I'm interested in this name as I think it is related to Morav (Slav)
              > versions - eg Moravka - Moravko - Morafko - Marafko and so on.
              > Do you think this is a possiblity?
              >
              > Peter M.
              >
              > On 4 July 2012 15:22, William C. Wormuth <senzus@...> wrote:
              >
              > > **
              > >
              > >
              > > Marchevka [Mahrrkhehv-kah]. http://telefonny.zoznam.sk/Marchevka/Jakubany/
              > >
              > > ________________________________
              > > From: "stibila@..." <stibila@...>
              > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 10:55 AM
              > >
              > > Subject: [S-R] Josif Stucka, Stuczka
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Josif, Joseph, was born in Jakubany to Joannes Stucka, Stuczka, and Anna
              > > Marchevka, Marhefka. Josif was born in 1929 and is my Mother's brother. He
              > > moved to Czechoslovakia, somewhere around 1945 but before 1970. His wife
              > > was Maria, last name maybe Verka. They had 4 daughters. He may still be
              > > alive but we have no way of communicating with relatives in Jakubany. If
              > > any one knows anything about Josif, please post to the message board.
              > > Someone did send me 2 Stucka phone numbers in Czech Republic and I called
              > > them, but they did not speak English.
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • William C. Wormuth
              Peter, I was surprised that the ch [kh], was legitimate, but the phone book names are spelled that way.  I seldom see the German names which are not
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 4, 2012
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                Peter,

                I was surprised that the "ch" [kh], was legitimate, but the phone book names are spelled that way.  I seldom see the German names which are not "converted" to Slovak.  Names such as Schuster [Shuater] in Slovak S~uster...etc.most often people experience problems with spelling and pronunciation of family names, Converting from Hungarian or German into Slovak. 
                I am not a genealogist.  My reason for contribution, is to advise in areas like this.  The other is my experience in visiting friends in all areas of Slovakia, the 28 times I visited since 1971.
                Your contributions are much deeper and I appreciate your comments if I am in error.

                S Panem Bohem,

                Vilko 


                ________________________________
                From: htcstech <htcstech@...>
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 1:45 AM
                Subject: Re: [S-R] Josif Stucka, Stuczka


                 
                Vilo, Marchevka [Mahrrkhehv-kah] - From my readings, I'm pretty sure that
                this name is based on the German *Mähren* -> mährische for Moravian. So
                the name Marchevka and Marhefka are related in this way.
                I'm interested in this name as I think it is related to Morav (Slav)
                versions - eg Moravka - Moravko - Morafko - Marafko and so on.
                Do you think this is a possiblity?

                Peter M.

                On 4 July 2012 15:22, William C. Wormuth <senzus@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                > Marchevka [Mahrrkhehv-kah]. http://telefonny.zoznam.sk/Marchevka/Jakubany/
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: "stibila@..." <stibila@...>
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 10:55 AM
                >
                > Subject: [S-R] Josif Stucka, Stuczka
                >
                >
                >
                > Josif, Joseph, was born in Jakubany to Joannes Stucka, Stuczka, and Anna
                > Marchevka, Marhefka. Josif was born in 1929 and is my Mother's brother. He
                > moved to Czechoslovakia, somewhere around 1945 but before 1970. His wife
                > was Maria, last name maybe Verka. They had 4 daughters. He may still be
                > alive but we have no way of communicating with relatives in Jakubany. If
                > any one knows anything about Josif, please post to the message board.
                > Someone did send me 2 Stucka phone numbers in Czech Republic and I called
                > them, but they did not speak English.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • William C. Wormuth
                Ron, Your statement, and should not even address the other Morava River in Serbia, Die Morava (serbisch Релика
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 4, 2012
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                  Ron,
                  Your statement, and should not even address the other Morava River in Serbia,
                  "Die Morava (serbisch Ð'елика Морава/Velika Morava, deutsch
                  auch Große Morava) ist ein rechter Nebenfluss der Donau und Hauptfluss
                  Serbiens.".
                  The Morava mentioned in Slovakia would be Western Slovak border which emptiest into the Danube which would be translated into Austrian German.  In Eastern Slovakia, the German would come from the early settlements there by Germans.

                  I am interested and do not mean to "correct" you.

                  Z Bohom,

                  Vilo



                  ________________________________
                  From: Ron <amiak27@...>
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 7:50 AM
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Josif Stucka, Stuczka


                   
                  For anyone having trouble reading this or any message with accent marks, go to "View", "Character Encoding" and choose "UTF-8"

                  Peter, what readings lead you to believe Marchevka is based on German? I am fluent in German and working on learning Slovak, so I am familiar with how similar some of the words can be in different languages and how easy it is to err in ascribing certain relationships.

                  It is handy to check things on www.google.de to get a German perspective, which is often closer to the usual European view, as opposed to our views from the USA. Sometimes there is much more detailed information as well on topics closer to the European heart.

                  In this case a quick look at the German Wiki entry yields "Die March (tschechisch und slowakisch Morava, lat. Marus) ist ein linker Nebenfluss der Donau in Mitteleuropa. Sie entwässert etwa drei Viertel des nach ihr benannten Mähren und ist dessen Hauptfluss."

                  and that does not even address the other Morava River in Serbia,
                  "Die Morava (serbisch Ð'елика Морава/Velika Morava, deutsch auch Große Morava) ist ein rechter Nebenfluss der Donau und Hauptfluss Serbiens."

                  Also, why would you take it to the German and not to the older Latin?

                  Ron

                  --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Vilo, Marchevka [Mahrrkhehv-kah] - From my readings, I'm pretty sure that > this name is based on the German *Mähren* -> mährische for Moravian. So > the name Marchevka and Marhefka are related in this way.
                  > I'm interested in this name as I think it is related to Morav (Slav)
                  > versions - eg Moravka - Moravko - Morafko - Marafko and so on.
                  > Do you think this is a possiblity?
                  >
                  > Peter M.
                  >
                  > On 4 July 2012 15:22, William C. Wormuth <senzus@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > **
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Marchevka [Mahrrkhehv-kah]. http://telefonny.zoznam.sk/Marchevka/Jakubany/
                  > >
                  > > ________________________________
                  > > From: "stibila@..." <stibila@...>
                  > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 10:55 AM
                  > >
                  > > Subject: [S-R] Josif Stucka, Stuczka
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Josif, Joseph, was born in Jakubany to Joannes Stucka, Stuczka, and Anna
                  > > Marchevka, Marhefka. Josif was born in 1929 and is my Mother's brother. He
                  > > moved to Czechoslovakia, somewhere around 1945 but before 1970. His wife
                  > > was Maria, last name maybe Verka. They had 4 daughters. He may still be
                  > > alive but we have no way of communicating with relatives in Jakubany. If
                  > > any one knows anything about Josif, please post to the message board.
                  > > Someone did send me 2 Stucka phone numbers in Czech Republic and I called
                  > > them, but they did not speak English.
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Ron
                  Vilo, We disagree, but I am happy for the conversation and thoughts to consider. Yes, mention of the Morava River in Serbia is relevant simply because it is
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 4, 2012
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                    Vilo,

                    We disagree, but I am happy for the conversation and thoughts to consider.

                    Yes, mention of the Morava River in Serbia is relevant simply because it is sometimes confused with the Slovak-Czech Morava, and anyone researching or reading about it should be aware, so they can avoid the confusion themselves. There are even historians who have argued that Greater Moravia was centered in Serbia rather than in Czecho-Slovakia.

                    On another point, I do not consider Morava and Mähren and Moravia translations of one another. That would be like saying the Moldau and Vltava are translations, when in reality they are two different names for the same river.

                    Related, perhaps is the example Zuzanna and Zsuzsanna in Slovak and Hungarian, differences in orthography of the different languages. We also must consider how the orthography (spelling) has changed over time as writing standards change.

                    150 years ago we would have said the Neanderthal skeleton was found in the Neanderthal Valley. Today we say the Neanderthal skeleton was found in the Neandertal Valley, a change in orthography, but not in the proper name.

                    Ron

                    --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "William C. Wormuth" <senzus@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Ron,
                    > Your statement, and should not even address the other Morava River in Serbia,
                    > "Die Morava (serbisch Ð'елика ÐÅ"оÃ`€Ð°Ð²Ð°/Velika Morava, deutsch
                    > auch Große Morava) ist ein rechter Nebenfluss der Donau und Hauptfluss
                    > Serbiens.".
                    > The Morava mentioned in Slovakia would be Western Slovak border which emptiest into the Danube which would be translated into Austrian German.  In Eastern Slovakia, the German would come from the early settlements there by Germans.
                    >
                    > I am interested and do not mean to "correct" you.
                    >
                    > Z Bohom,
                    >
                    > Vilo
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: Ron <amiak27@...>
                    > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 7:50 AM
                    > Subject: Re: [S-R] Josif Stucka, Stuczka
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    > For anyone having trouble reading this or any message with accent marks, go to "View", "Character Encoding" and choose "UTF-8"
                    >
                    > Peter, what readings lead you to believe Marchevka is based on German? I am fluent in German and working on learning Slovak, so I am familiar with how similar some of the words can be in different languages and how easy it is to err in ascribing certain relationships.
                    >
                    > It is handy to check things on www.google.de to get a German perspective, which is often closer to the usual European view, as opposed to our views from the USA. Sometimes there is much more detailed information as well on topics closer to the European heart.
                    >
                    > In this case a quick look at the German Wiki entry yields "Die March (tschechisch und slowakisch Morava, lat. Marus) ist ein linker Nebenfluss der Donau in Mitteleuropa. Sie entwässert etwa drei Viertel des nach ihr benannten Mähren und ist dessen Hauptfluss."
                    >
                    > and that does not even address the other Morava River in Serbia,
                    > "Die Morava (serbisch Ð'елика ÐÅ"оÃ`€Ð°Ð²Ð°/Velika Morava, deutsch auch Große Morava) ist ein rechter Nebenfluss der Donau und Hauptfluss Serbiens."
                    >
                    > Also, why would you take it to the German and not to the older Latin?
                    >
                    > Ron
                    >
                    > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech <htcstech@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Vilo, Marchevka [Mahrrkhehv-kah] - From my readings, I'm pretty sure that > this name is based on the German *Mähren* -> mährische for Moravian. So > the name Marchevka and Marhefka are related in this way.
                    > > I'm interested in this name as I think it is related to Morav (Slav)
                    > > versions - eg Moravka - Moravko - Morafko - Marafko and so on.
                    > > Do you think this is a possiblity?
                    > >
                    > > Peter M.
                    > >
                    > > On 4 July 2012 15:22, William C. Wormuth <senzus@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > **
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Marchevka [Mahrrkhehv-kah]. http://telefonny.zoznam.sk/Marchevka/Jakubany/
                    > > >
                    > > > ________________________________
                    > > > From: "stibila@" <stibila@>
                    > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 10:55 AM
                    > > >
                    > > > Subject: [S-R] Josif Stucka, Stuczka
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Josif, Joseph, was born in Jakubany to Joannes Stucka, Stuczka, and Anna
                    > > > Marchevka, Marhefka. Josif was born in 1929 and is my Mother's brother. He
                    > > > moved to Czechoslovakia, somewhere around 1945 but before 1970. His wife
                    > > > was Maria, last name maybe Verka. They had 4 daughters. He may still be
                    > > > alive but we have no way of communicating with relatives in Jakubany. If
                    > > > any one knows anything about Josif, please post to the message board.
                    > > > Someone did send me 2 Stucka phone numbers in Czech Republic and I called
                    > > > them, but they did not speak English.
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • William C. Wormuth
                    Ron, I would like to further argue but on Slovak World because itt is rather off Roots. Awe c mon!, it s fun an intrestin .  Besides, Martin might get in to
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 4, 2012
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                      Ron,

                      I would like to further argue but on Slovak World because itt is rather off Roots.

                      Awe c'mon!, it's fun an' intrestin'.  Besides, Martin might get in to it..

                      Z Bohom,

                      Vilo



                      ________________________________
                      From: Ron <amiak27@...>
                      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 1:09 PM
                      Subject: Re: [S-R] Josif Stucka, Stuczka


                       
                      Vilo,

                      We disagree, but I am happy for the conversation and thoughts to consider.

                      Yes, mention of the Morava River in Serbia is relevant simply because it is sometimes confused with the Slovak-Czech Morava, and anyone researching or reading about it should be aware, so they can avoid the confusion themselves. There are even historians who have argued that Greater Moravia was centered in Serbia rather than in Czecho-Slovakia.

                      On another point, I do not consider Morava and Mähren and Moravia translations of one another. That would be like saying the Moldau and Vltava are translations, when in reality they are two different names for the same river.

                      Related, perhaps is the example Zuzanna and Zsuzsanna in Slovak and Hungarian, differences in orthography of the different languages. We also must consider how the orthography (spelling) has changed over time as writing standards change.

                      150 years ago we would have said the Neanderthal skeleton was found in the Neanderthal Valley. Today we say the Neanderthal skeleton was found in the Neandertal Valley, a change in orthography, but not in the proper name.

                      Ron

                      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "William C. Wormuth" <senzus@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Ron,
                      > Your statement, and should not even address the other Morava River in Serbia,
                      > "Die Morava (serbisch Ã�'Ã�µÃ�»Ã�¸Ã�ºÃ�° Ã�Å"Ã�¾Ã`€Ã�°Ã�²Ã�°/Velika Morava, deutsch
                      > auch Große Morava) ist ein rechter Nebenfluss der Donau und Hauptfluss
                      > Serbiens.".
                      > The Morava mentioned in Slovakia would be Western Slovak border which emptiest into the Danube which would be translated into Austrian German.  In Eastern Slovakia, the German would come from the early settlements there by Germans.
                      >
                      > I am interested and do not mean to "correct" you.
                      >
                      > Z Bohom,
                      >
                      > Vilo
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: Ron <amiak27@...>
                      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 7:50 AM
                      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Josif Stucka, Stuczka
                      >
                      >
                      >  
                      > For anyone having trouble reading this or any message with accent marks, go to "View", "Character Encoding" and choose "UTF-8"
                      >
                      > Peter, what readings lead you to believe Marchevka is based on German? I am fluent in German and working on learning Slovak, so I am familiar with how similar some of the words can be in different languages and how easy it is to err in ascribing certain relationships.
                      >
                      > It is handy to check things on www.google.de to get a German perspective, which is often closer to the usual European view, as opposed to our views from the USA. Sometimes there is much more detailed information as well on topics closer to the European heart.
                      >
                      > In this case a quick look at the German Wiki entry yields "Die March (tschechisch und slowakisch Morava, lat. Marus) ist ein linker Nebenfluss der Donau in Mitteleuropa. Sie entwässert etwa drei Viertel des nach ihr benannten Mähren und ist dessen Hauptfluss."
                      >
                      > and that does not even address the other Morava River in Serbia,
                      > "Die Morava (serbisch Ã�'Ã�µÃ�»Ã�¸Ã�ºÃ�° Ã�Å"Ã�¾Ã`€Ã�°Ã�²Ã�°/Velika Morava, deutsch auch Große Morava) ist ein rechter Nebenfluss der Donau und Hauptfluss Serbiens."
                      >
                      > Also, why would you take it to the German and not to the older Latin?
                      >
                      > Ron
                      >
                      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech <htcstech@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Vilo, Marchevka [Mahrrkhehv-kah] - From my readings, I'm pretty sure that > this name is based on the German *Mähren* -> mährische for Moravian. So > the name Marchevka and Marhefka are related in this way.
                      > > I'm interested in this name as I think it is related to Morav (Slav)
                      > > versions - eg Moravka - Moravko - Morafko - Marafko and so on.
                      > > Do you think this is a possiblity?
                      > >
                      > > Peter M.
                      > >
                      > > On 4 July 2012 15:22, William C. Wormuth <senzus@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > **
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Marchevka [Mahrrkhehv-kah]. http://telefonny.zoznam.sk/Marchevka/Jakubany/
                      > > >
                      > > > ________________________________
                      > > > From: "stibila@" <stibila@>
                      > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 10:55 AM
                      > > >
                      > > > Subject: [S-R] Josif Stucka, Stuczka
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Josif, Joseph, was born in Jakubany to Joannes Stucka, Stuczka, and Anna
                      > > > Marchevka, Marhefka. Josif was born in 1929 and is my Mother's brother. He
                      > > > moved to Czechoslovakia, somewhere around 1945 but before 1970. His wife
                      > > > was Maria, last name maybe Verka. They had 4 daughters. He may still be
                      > > > alive but we have no way of communicating with relatives in Jakubany. If
                      > > > any one knows anything about Josif, please post to the message board.
                      > > > Someone did send me 2 Stucka phone numbers in Czech Republic and I called
                      > > > them, but they did not speak English.
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • htcstech
                      Vilo, I changed the topic to German Mahren in case you didn t see it. It s questionable if name etymology is off-topic. But if you do move it to SW then let
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 4, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Vilo, I changed the topic to 'German Mahren' in case you didn't see it.
                        It's questionable if name etymology is off-topic. But if you do move it to
                        SW then let me know.

                        Peter M.

                        On 5 July 2012 08:39, William C. Wormuth <senzus@...> wrote:

                        > **
                        >
                        >
                        > Ron,
                        >
                        > I would like to further argue but on Slovak World because itt is rather
                        > off Roots.
                        >
                        > Awe c'mon!, it's fun an' intrestin'. Besides, Martin might get in to it..
                        >
                        > Z Bohom,
                        >
                        > Vilo
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: Ron <amiak27@...>
                        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 1:09 PM
                        >
                        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Josif Stucka, Stuczka
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Vilo,
                        >
                        > We disagree, but I am happy for the conversation and thoughts to consider.
                        >
                        > Yes, mention of the Morava River in Serbia is relevant simply because it
                        > is sometimes confused with the Slovak-Czech Morava, and anyone researching
                        > or reading about it should be aware, so they can avoid the confusion
                        > themselves. There are even historians who have argued that Greater Moravia
                        > was centered in Serbia rather than in Czecho-Slovakia.
                        >
                        > On another point, I do not consider Morava and Mähren and Moravia
                        > translations of one another. That would be like saying the Moldau and
                        > Vltava are translations, when in reality they are two different names for
                        > the same river.
                        >
                        > Related, perhaps is the example Zuzanna and Zsuzsanna in Slovak and
                        > Hungarian, differences in orthography of the different languages. We also
                        > must consider how the orthography (spelling) has changed over time as
                        > writing standards change.
                        >
                        > 150 years ago we would have said the Neanderthal skeleton was found in the
                        > Neanderthal Valley. Today we say the Neanderthal skeleton was found in the
                        > Neandertal Valley, a change in orthography, but not in the proper name.
                        >
                        > Ron
                        >
                        > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "William C. Wormuth" <senzus@...>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Ron,
                        > > Your statement, and should not even address the other Morava River in
                        > Serbia,
                        > > "Die Morava (serbisch �'�µ�»�¸�º�°
                        > Ã�Å"Ã�¾Ã`€Ã�°Ã�²Ã�°/Velika Morava, deutsch
                        > > auch Große Morava) ist ein rechter Nebenfluss der Donau und
                        > Hauptfluss
                        > > Serbiens.".
                        > > The Morava mentioned in Slovakia would be Western Slovak border which
                        > emptiest into the Danube which would be translated into Austrian German.Â
                        > In Eastern Slovakia, the German would come from the early settlements there
                        > by Germans.
                        > >
                        > > I am interested and do not mean to "correct" you.
                        > >
                        > > Z Bohom,
                        > >
                        > > Vilo
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ________________________________
                        > > From: Ron <amiak27@...>
                        > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 7:50 AM
                        > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Josif Stucka, Stuczka
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Â
                        > > For anyone having trouble reading this or any message with accent marks,
                        > go to "View", "Character Encoding" and choose "UTF-8"
                        > >
                        > > Peter, what readings lead you to believe Marchevka is based on German? I
                        > am fluent in German and working on learning Slovak, so I am familiar with
                        > how similar some of the words can be in different languages and how easy it
                        > is to err in ascribing certain relationships.
                        > >
                        > > It is handy to check things on www.google.de to get a German
                        > perspective, which is often closer to the usual European view, as opposed
                        > to our views from the USA. Sometimes there is much more detailed
                        > information as well on topics closer to the European heart.
                        > >
                        > > In this case a quick look at the German Wiki entry yields "Die March
                        > (tschechisch und slowakisch Morava, lat. Marus) ist ein linker Nebenfluss
                        > der Donau in Mitteleuropa. Sie entwässert etwa drei Viertel des nach ihr
                        > benannten Mähren und ist dessen Hauptfluss."
                        > >
                        > > and that does not even address the other Morava River in Serbia,
                        > > "Die Morava (serbisch �'�µ�»�¸�º�°
                        > Ã�Å"Ã�¾Ã`€Ã�°Ã�²Ã�°/Velika Morava, deutsch auch Große Morava) ist
                        > ein rechter Nebenfluss der Donau und Hauptfluss Serbiens."
                        > >
                        > > Also, why would you take it to the German and not to the older Latin?
                        > >
                        > > Ron
                        > >
                        > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech <htcstech@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Vilo, Marchevka [Mahrrkhehv-kah] - From my readings, I'm pretty sure
                        > that > this name is based on the German *Mähren* -> mährische for
                        > Moravian. So > the name Marchevka and Marhefka are related in this way.
                        > > > I'm interested in this name as I think it is related to Morav (Slav)
                        > > > versions - eg Moravka - Moravko - Morafko - Marafko and so on.
                        > > > Do you think this is a possiblity?
                        > > >
                        > > > Peter M.
                        > > >
                        > > > On 4 July 2012 15:22, William C. Wormuth <senzus@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > > **
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Marchevka [Mahrrkhehv-kah].
                        > http://telefonny.zoznam.sk/Marchevka/Jakubany/
                        > > > >
                        > > > > ________________________________
                        > > > > From: "stibila@" <stibila@>
                        > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 10:55 AM
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Subject: [S-R] Josif Stucka, Stuczka
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Josif, Joseph, was born in Jakubany to Joannes Stucka, Stuczka, and
                        > Anna
                        > > > > Marchevka, Marhefka. Josif was born in 1929 and is my Mother's
                        > brother. He
                        > > > > moved to Czechoslovakia, somewhere around 1945 but before 1970. His
                        > wife
                        > > > > was Maria, last name maybe Verka. They had 4 daughters. He may still
                        > be
                        > > > > alive but we have no way of communicating with relatives in
                        > Jakubany. If
                        > > > > any one knows anything about Josif, please post to the message board.
                        > > > > Someone did send me 2 Stucka phone numbers in Czech Republic and I
                        > called
                        > > > > them, but they did not speak English.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >


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