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Re: [S-R] Re: ethnic customs/Jewish/Vlachs/Bezilla

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  • William C. Wormuth
     Peter, Super interesting posts.   In the town Of Velke Levare, the Habani buildings are preserves and open to the public. You mentioned Serbs but not
    Message 1 of 10 , Jun 19, 2012
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      Super interesting posts.  

      In the town Of Velke Levare, the Habani buildings are preserves and open to the public.

      You mentioned Serbs but not Croatians, (Chorovat [Khohroh-vaht]).  There are still "memories of there being ther such as the town Chorvátsky Grob [Khohrvaht-skee Grohb] Croatian grave, North East of Bratislava and Chorváty [Khorvah-tee] South West of Kos~ice .  Also the name Horvath, stems from the word Croatian.

      Peter, thanks again for the article.

      Z Bohom,


      From: htcstech <htcstech@...>
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 4:22 AM
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: ethnic customs/Jewish/Vlachs/Bezilla

      I found this passage that may be of interest:

      "*17**th** century* – *1711*: The *ethnic structure* basically remains the
      same as in the previous century (see after 1541) with the following
      changes: The Turks leave southern Slovakia between 1593 – 1606, but they
      come again temporarily in 1663-1683. After 1683, these and other
      depopulated territories in Historic Hungary are populated by Slovaks (see
      also 1690). Some free royal towns become purely Slovak towns (without
      Germans) and Trnava, Banská Bystrica, Krupina and many other towns become
      predominantly Slovak towns. Guilds, crafts and mining activities are
      predominantly in Slovak (as opposed to German) hands, except for most royal
      and mining towns. Some Germans (professionals and clerks) come from
      Austrian mining regions, for the explicit purpose of saving the German
      nation in Slovak mining towns from extinction. They are however Slovakized
      after 2 or 3 generations. As for the Hungarians, the Magyarisation of
      Slovak gentry intensifies and Hungarians settle in towns in southwestern
      and southeastern Slovakia. National conflicts (already existing in the
      previous century) arise between the Germans, Hungarians and Slovaks in the
      towns: The Germans fear assimilation by the Slovaks, the Germans and the
      Slovaks are against Hunagrian nobles settling in the traditional German and
      Slovak towns (and not wanting to fulfill the duties of burghers), and the
      Slovaks and the Hungarians enter into alliances against the Germans in
      order to receive functions in the administration of towns. Ruthenians
      (previously in the mountains) settle in some towns in eastern Slovakia.
      Furthemore, the total population of Slovakia decreases in the late 17th and
      early 18th century (1663 – 1711), which is “finished” by the Plague
      Epidemic of 1710-1711. The last so-called “Wallachian” settlements arise in
      the 17th century (see after 1541, 1337). After the battle at the White
      Mountain (1620), several hundred Czech Protestant families fleeing from the
      present-day Czech Republic settle in western Slovakia (they are assimilated
      gradually) and some further German Anabaptists (called habáni) come from
      Moravia (see after 1541). Around 1690, a new wave of Serbs (see after 1541)
      comes to Slovakia, more exactly to Bratislava and (once more) to Komárno.
      Serbian suburb colonies arise in both towns (see c. 1690), but they will be
      gradually assimilated. A relatively high amount of Jews starts to settle in
      western Slovakia (from Moravia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moravia>) and
      in northeastern Slovakia (from Galicia<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia>)
      in the late 17th century."

      On 18 June 2012 17:38, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:

      > I just checked the map for the location of Olcnava.
      > I'm currently doing a study of Ottoman history and it is likely that the
      > Ottomans were the cause of the slave migration.
      > It gets complicated as Ottoman Hungary and Ottoman controlled
      > Transylvania, both combined forces against Hapsburg controlled Royal
      > Hungary. You had a large ethnic variety of anti-Hapsberg army and support
      > personnel, sometimes fielding 60,000 troops. The Ottoman Empire included
      > Greece and parts of Italy and drew on all of its resources. The Hapsbergs
      > also controlled the northern parts of Italy for a while and Hungary did own
      > Italian Trieste for many years.
      > The interesting point is the exchange of prisoners between Royal Hungary
      > and the Ottomans on the ever changing front. It could very well be that the
      > village of your ancestors could fall into this category. Officially, Royal
      > Hungary did not take slaves, but unofficially they (Hapsbergs) did as they
      > appeared in the Royal courts of Vienna, let alone being made serfs in the
      > depopulated fields.
      > Look up Thokoly, the pretender to the Hungarian throne and his east to
      > west conquests towards Pozsony (Bratislava) in the 1670-80's.
      > Also the Treaty of Vasvar in 1663-64 where the Turks were allowed to keep
      > all of their conquests for 23 years.
      > Also, I have heard of complete Romanian villages in Slovakia. I have
      > recently discovered a Greek town south of Budapest as well.
      > Peter M.
      > PS There is was colony of Italians in Albania that located in Romania
      > around this time.
      > On 18 June 2012 15:15, laffingdukk <laffingdukk@...> wrote:
      >> **
      >> I forgot all about this topic and I saw my own post when I googled
      >> something else.
      >> I have since found out our Slovak name, Bezilla/Bezila is in fact Latin,
      >> my grandmother's ancestral village, modern day Olcnava, SK, was at one time
      >> called Villa Latina. Our Bezilla orgins are Italian. According to documents
      >> my cousins possess in Slovakia, our ancestors were kidnapped by (the
      >> Hungarians?) and taken to Slovakia to work in the mines and quarries there.
      >> Of course we are Slovak now, but I knew I was onto something...we
      >> absolutely look Mediterranean, even this many centuries down, rather than
      >> Slavic.
      >> As a matter of fact, one of my first cousins (American) was living in
      >> Italy when he turned 17. When in Italy, even if you are a foreigner, you
      >> must serve in the military if any of your ancestors are Italian up to 3
      >> generations back,if I remember correctly. At any rate, the Italian
      >> government was so sure my cousin was Italian they made him document the
      >> fact that he was not or else he would have to serve in the Italian army.
      >> His parents, having no knowledge at the time how our ancestors arrived in
      >> Slovakia, provided sufficient documentation and he did not have to serve.
      >> My uncle was flabbergasted when I told him of our actual Italian ancestry.
      >> Now whether we were Italian "jews" is something only DNA would tell...and
      >> I can't afford that.
      >> Just thought I'd update my post
      >> Dina
      >> --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "nilo3rak" <piekielnik@...> wrote:
      >> >
      >> > My mother-in-law who was 100% Scottish/English, Presbyterian also
      >> soaked all the chicken in salt water.
      >> >
      >> > From a culinary standpoint, "brining" or soaking meats in salt water
      >> adds flavor and moisture. It also reduces off-flavors or those of strong
      >> meats, such as venison or wild boar.
      >> >
      >> > Historically, brining for several days was used as a means of
      >> preservation.
      >> >
      >> > Hope this helps.
      >> >
      >> > Genetic testing is the only way to find if you have a little bit of
      >> Jewish Eastern (Ashkennazi) in your background. I personally think that I
      >> have a little (genes that is) in my backgound; I also think that Eastern
      >> European Jews have a lot of other so called ethnic dna in them. Remember,
      >> when the genes were passed out a few thousand years ago, there were no
      >> modern day divisions. Most early modern divisions, such as
      >> Aryn/IndoEuropean or Semite were based on language. Fascinating stuff,
      >> though, how humanity developed different religions and cultures.
      >> >
      >> > Carolyn
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "laffingdukk" <laffingdukk@>
      >> wrote:
      >> > >
      >> > > My great-grandmother came to
      >> > > USA from what is now Slovakia in 1912.
      >> > >
      >> > > Her daughter, my grandma, was born in USA. Although they were
      >> Catholic in the
      >> > > USA, and my distant Slovak relatives that currently live in Slovakia
      >> are all
      >> > > catholic, there are a few customs that seem rather Jewish to me. One
      >> of the
      >> > > most striking ones (to me) is the practice of soaking all chicken in
      >> salt water
      >> > > to get the blood out before eating it. No one seems to know why we do
      >> this in
      >> > > our family, "because my mother's mother's mother has always done it,
      >> etc" but to
      >> > > this day my 86 yr old grandma will not eat the chicken which has not
      >> been
      >> > > soaked. Does anyone know if this is only a jewish custom, or did other
      >> > > ethnicities/ppl do it also in the old country (perhaps for
      >> preservation?)
      >> > >
      >> > > I just suspect (for various reasons) that we have some Jewish
      >> ancestry...but
      >> > > nothing conclusive.
      >> > >
      >> > > Along this same line...my gr-grandmother was born in Spissky Vlachy,
      >> and
      >> > > although Vlachs do not seem to be a modern day ethnic group in
      >> Slovakia, can
      >> > > anyone tell me anything about Vlachs or Wallachians other than what
      >> is easily
      >> > > found on the internet? Our surname is Bezilla, which doesn't seem
      >> very Slavic,
      >> > > but more Latin in origin...and I am just trying to piece together a
      >> puzzle with
      >> > > very few clues. My modern day Bezilla relatives are fairly young and
      >> as far as
      >> > > they know, they are Slovak Catholics...but they honestly know very
      >> little about
      >> > > our history.
      >> > >
      >> > > Any thoughts or feedback from the group would be appreciated. I think
      >> I am
      >> > > going to cross post this on another group I belong to..so my
      >> apologies if you
      >> > > have to read it twice :-)
      >> > >
      >> > > thanks
      >> > >
      >> > > Dina
      >> > >
      >> >

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