Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [S-R] "Slavish" means Carpatho-Rusyn?

Expand Messages
  • helene cincebeaux
    In Binghamton NY people were called Slavish there were many immigrants working in the E J shoe factory They came from Slovakia and Moravian Slovakia. I
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 1, 2012
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      In Binghamton NY people were called "Slavish"

      there were many immigrants working in the E J shoe factory

      They came from Slovakia and Moravian Slovakia.

      I think it was a name used then somewhat like the Amish in the US use the term "English' for everyone who isn't Amish.

      Likely the locals took Slavic as in Slavic peoples and mangled it and called the language they didnt understand a generic "Slavish".

      i never heard of a connect ion with Rusyns - now Russian that is one you hear a lot for Rusyn.

      helene


      --- On Thu, 5/31/12, r.helms <r.helms@...> wrote:

      > From: r.helms <r.helms@...>
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] "Slavish" means Carpatho-Rusyn?
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Thursday, May 31, 2012, 8:49 PM
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > I have never heard the word slavish, except in
      > reference to slavery. My Aunt Anna was Slovak (parents
      > where from Slovakia) and she was married to Uncle Frank who
      > was Slavic (he came from Yugoslavia), I was told, by my
      > Aunt, to never mix them up.
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com,
      > "Corinne C. Musto" <gershwin417@...> wrote:
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Hello,
      >
      > >
      >
      > > This website gives some good information.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Corinne
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > ________________________________
      >
      > > From: "sarah.sundquist@..."
      > <sarah.sundquist@...>
      >
      > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      > > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 2:40 PM
      >
      > > Subject: [S-R] "Slavish" means
      > Carpatho-Rusyn?
      >
      > >
      >
      > > I am seeing a lot of references to the use of the word
      > "Slavish" as an identifier means specifically
      > Carpatho-Rusyn.  Does anyone have an opinion on how true
      > that is?
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > ------------------------------------
      >
      > >
      >
      > > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY).  OFF-TOPIC ITEMS
      > WILL BE BLOCKED.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      >
      > >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
      >
      > >
      >
      > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS%c2%a0
      > -or- send  blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@...!
      > Groups Links
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • William C. Wormuth
      Ron, Our people used Slovak [Sloh-vahk]  but in later years when I traveled around among Slovaks here it disturbed me when people use Slovak [Sloh-vehk]. S
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 1, 2012
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        Ron,

        Our people used Slovak [Sloh-vahk]  but in later years when I traveled around among Slovaks here it disturbed me when people use Slovak [Sloh-vehk].

        S Panem Bohom,

        Vilo



        ________________________________
        From: Ron <amiak27@...>
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, June 1, 2012 8:35 AM
        Subject: [S-R] Re: "Slavish" means Carpatho-Rusyn?


         
        I borrowed directly from the site David lists below:
        *********
        Slavish, Slovac, Slavack...

        When the immigrants used English in the 19th and early 20th centuries, they were often as uncertain of the English versions of their ethnic names as the Americans were confounded by the similarity. In addition to calling their fraternals and parishes Slovak, some Slovak-Americans would name them Slovac and Slavish. The word Slovak generally replaced other versions in the names of Slovak-American organizations by the mid-1920s. Although not as common in Slovak-American documents, English-language sources also used Slavack, Slovish, and similar words. Context is usually required to clarify whether the reference was to the Slovaks, Slavs, or Slovenes.
        *******

        I have one cousin who uses Slavish to this day to refer to us. I always took it as old time immigrant language, much as references to Slovakland, which were quite clear in meaning when used so long ago.

        The English word slavish as in slavish devotion, I always associated with old slavery as well, but have never studied the etymology. Jumping to conclusions from simple similarity can be dangerous, as associating Germs with Germany.

        During this ongoing visit to Eastern Slovakia I have been getting good exercise to my poor command of Slovak, but am improving. They Rusyn I am exposed to is quite different. The Easter Slovak dialect, however, presents no problem.

        That is one experience.

        Vilo, do you find the use only in English, or was it used by the old immigrants you knew over here?

        Ron

        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, david1law@... wrote:
        >
        > Hello:
        >
        > Here is a good link to the Slovak Studies Program at the University of
        > Pittsburgh that may shed some light as to the various names for the Slavic
        > people as well as how it relates to the word "slavery":
        >
        > _http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html_
        > (http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html)
        >
        > I hope that this helps a little.
        >
        > Best regards,
        >
        > David
        >
        >
        >
        > In a message dated 5/31/2012 8:50:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
        > r.helms@... writes:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > I have never heard the word slavish, except in reference to slavery. My
        > Aunt Anna was Slovak (parents where from Slovakia) and she was married to
        > Uncle Frank who was Slavic (he came from Yugoslavia), I was told, by my Aunt,
        > to never mix them up.
        >
        > --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
        > , "Corinne C. Musto" <gershwin417@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello,
        > >
        > > This website gives some good information.
        > >
        > > Corinne
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > _http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html_
        > (http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ________________________________
        > > From: "sarah.sundquist@" <sarah.sundquist@>
        > > To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
        >
        > > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 2:40 PM
        > > Subject: [S-R] "Slavish" means Carpatho-Rusyn?
        > >
        > > I am seeing a lot of references to the use of the word "Slavish" as an
        > identifier means specifically Carpatho-Rusyn. Does anyone have an opinion
        > on how true that is?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
        > >
        > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > > _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/_
        > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/)
        > >
        > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
        > _http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS_ (http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS) -or- send
        > blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • helene cincebeaux
        In that same vein i why does it bother me when people say Slovakian instead of Slovak? but it does. helene
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 1, 2012
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          In that same vein i why does it bother me when people say Slovakian instead of Slovak? but it does.

          helene

          --- On Fri, 6/1/12, William C. Wormuth <senzus@...> wrote:

          > From: William C. Wormuth <senzus@...>
          > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: "Slavish" means Carpatho-Rusyn?
          > To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
          > Date: Friday, June 1, 2012, 8:30 PM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Ron,
          >
          >
          >
          > Our people used Slovak [Sloh-vahk]  but in later years when
          > I traveled around among Slovaks here it disturbed me when
          > people use Slovak [Sloh-vehk].
          >
          >
          >
          > S Panem Bohom,
          >
          >
          >
          > Vilo
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          >
          > From: Ron <amiak27@...>
          >
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          > Sent: Friday, June 1, 2012 8:35 AM
          >
          > Subject: [S-R] Re: "Slavish" means
          > Carpatho-Rusyn?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          > I borrowed directly from the site David lists below:
          >
          > *********
          >
          > Slavish, Slovac, Slavack...
          >
          >
          >
          > When the immigrants used English in the 19th and early 20th
          > centuries, they were often as uncertain of the English
          > versions of their ethnic names as the Americans were
          > confounded by the similarity. In addition to calling their
          > fraternals and parishes Slovak, some Slovak-Americans would
          > name them Slovac and Slavish. The word Slovak generally
          > replaced other versions in the names of Slovak-American
          > organizations by the mid-1920s. Although not as common in
          > Slovak-American documents, English-language sources also
          > used Slavack, Slovish, and similar words. Context is usually
          > required to clarify whether the reference was to the
          > Slovaks, Slavs, or Slovenes.
          >
          > *******
          >
          >
          >
          > I have one cousin who uses Slavish to this day to refer to
          > us. I always took it as old time immigrant language, much as
          > references to Slovakland, which were quite clear in meaning
          > when used so long ago.
          >
          >
          >
          > The English word slavish as in slavish devotion, I always
          > associated with old slavery as well, but have never studied
          > the etymology. Jumping to conclusions from simple similarity
          > can be dangerous, as associating Germs with Germany.
          >
          >
          >
          > During this ongoing visit to Eastern Slovakia I have been
          > getting good exercise to my poor command of Slovak, but am
          > improving. They Rusyn I am exposed to is quite different.
          > The Easter Slovak dialect, however, presents no problem.
          >
          >
          >
          > That is one experience.
          >
          >
          >
          > Vilo, do you find the use only in English, or was it used by
          > the old immigrants you knew over here?
          >
          >
          >
          > Ron
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com,
          > david1law@... wrote:
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Hello:
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Here is a good link to the Slovak Studies Program at
          > the University of
          >
          > > Pittsburgh that may shed some light as to the various
          > names for the Slavic
          >
          > > people as well as how it relates to the word
          > "slavery":
          >
          > >
          >
          > > _http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html_
          >
          >
          > > (http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html)
          >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > I hope that this helps a little.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Best regards,
          >
          > >
          >
          > > David
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > In a message dated 5/31/2012 8:50:20 P.M. Eastern
          > Daylight Time,
          >
          > > r.helms@... writes:
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > I have never heard the word slavish, except in
          > reference to slavery. My
          >
          > > Aunt Anna was Slovak (parents where from Slovakia) and
          > she was married to
          >
          > > Uncle Frank who was Slavic (he came from Yugoslavia), I
          > was told, by my Aunt,
          >
          > > to never mix them up.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com_
          > (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
          >
          >
          > > , "Corinne C. Musto" <gershwin417@>
          > wrote:
          >
          > > >
          >
          > > > Hello,
          >
          > > >
          >
          > > > This website gives some good information.
          >
          > > >
          >
          > > > Corinne
          >
          > > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > > > _http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html_
          >
          >
          > > (http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html)
          >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > > > ________________________________
          >
          > > > From: "sarah.sundquist@"
          > <sarah.sundquist@>
          >
          > > > To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com_
          > (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
          >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 2:40 PM
          >
          > > > Subject: [S-R] "Slavish" means
          > Carpatho-Rusyn?
          >
          > > >
          >
          > > > I am seeing a lot of references to the use of the
          > word "Slavish" as an
          >
          > > identifier means specifically Carpatho-Rusyn. Does
          > anyone have an opinion
          >
          > > on how true that is?
          >
          > > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > > > ------------------------------------
          >
          > > >
          >
          > > > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS
          > WILL BE BLOCKED.
          >
          > > >
          >
          > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          >
          > > > _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/_
          >
          >
          > > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/)
          >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          >
          > > _http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS_
          > (http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS)
          > -or- send
          >
          > > blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@! Groups
          > Links
          >
          > > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > > >
          >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
          > removed]
          >
          > > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • mikebelan1@rogers.com
          Just remember, there are two kind of people in this world. Slovak, and those who wish they were. Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 1, 2012
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment
            Just remember, there are two kind of people in this world. Slovak, and those who wish they were.


            Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network

            -----Original Message-----
            From: helene cincebeaux <helenezx@...>
            Sender: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 18:11:22
            To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
            Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: "Slavish" means Carpatho-Rusyn?

            In that same vein i why does it bother me when people say Slovakian instead of Slovak? but it does.

            helene

            --- On Fri, 6/1/12, William C. Wormuth <senzus@...> wrote:

            > From: William C. Wormuth <senzus@...>
            > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: "Slavish" means Carpatho-Rusyn?
            > To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
            > Date: Friday, June 1, 2012, 8:30 PM
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Ron,
            >
            >
            >
            > Our people used Slovak [Sloh-vahk]  but in later years when
            > I traveled around among Slovaks here it disturbed me when
            > people use Slovak [Sloh-vehk].
            >
            >
            >
            > S Panem Bohom,
            >
            >
            >
            > Vilo
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            >
            > From: Ron <amiak27@...>
            >
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            > Sent: Friday, June 1, 2012 8:35 AM
            >
            > Subject: [S-R] Re: "Slavish" means
            > Carpatho-Rusyn?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            > I borrowed directly from the site David lists below:
            >
            > *********
            >
            > Slavish, Slovac, Slavack...
            >
            >
            >
            > When the immigrants used English in the 19th and early 20th
            > centuries, they were often as uncertain of the English
            > versions of their ethnic names as the Americans were
            > confounded by the similarity. In addition to calling their
            > fraternals and parishes Slovak, some Slovak-Americans would
            > name them Slovac and Slavish. The word Slovak generally
            > replaced other versions in the names of Slovak-American
            > organizations by the mid-1920s. Although not as common in
            > Slovak-American documents, English-language sources also
            > used Slavack, Slovish, and similar words. Context is usually
            > required to clarify whether the reference was to the
            > Slovaks, Slavs, or Slovenes.
            >
            > *******
            >
            >
            >
            > I have one cousin who uses Slavish to this day to refer to
            > us. I always took it as old time immigrant language, much as
            > references to Slovakland, which were quite clear in meaning
            > when used so long ago.
            >
            >
            >
            > The English word slavish as in slavish devotion, I always
            > associated with old slavery as well, but have never studied
            > the etymology. Jumping to conclusions from simple similarity
            > can be dangerous, as associating Germs with Germany.
            >
            >
            >
            > During this ongoing visit to Eastern Slovakia I have been
            > getting good exercise to my poor command of Slovak, but am
            > improving. They Rusyn I am exposed to is quite different.
            > The Easter Slovak dialect, however, presents no problem.
            >
            >
            >
            > That is one experience.
            >
            >
            >
            > Vilo, do you find the use only in English, or was it used by
            > the old immigrants you knew over here?
            >
            >
            >
            > Ron
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com,
            > david1law@... wrote:
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Hello:
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Here is a good link to the Slovak Studies Program at
            > the University of
            >
            > > Pittsburgh that may shed some light as to the various
            > names for the Slavic
            >
            > > people as well as how it relates to the word
            > "slavery":
            >
            > >
            >
            > > _http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html_
            >
            >
            > > (http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html)
            >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > I hope that this helps a little.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Best regards,
            >
            > >
            >
            > > David
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > In a message dated 5/31/2012 8:50:20 P.M. Eastern
            > Daylight Time,
            >
            > > r.helms@... writes:
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > I have never heard the word slavish, except in
            > reference to slavery. My
            >
            > > Aunt Anna was Slovak (parents where from Slovakia) and
            > she was married to
            >
            > > Uncle Frank who was Slavic (he came from Yugoslavia), I
            > was told, by my Aunt,
            >
            > > to never mix them up.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com_
            > (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
            >
            >
            > > , "Corinne C. Musto" <gershwin417@>
            > wrote:
            >
            > > >
            >
            > > > Hello,
            >
            > > >
            >
            > > > This website gives some good information.
            >
            > > >
            >
            > > > Corinne
            >
            > > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > > > _http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html_
            >
            >
            > > (http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html)
            >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > > > ________________________________
            >
            > > > From: "sarah.sundquist@"
            > <sarah.sundquist@>
            >
            > > > To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com_
            > (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
            >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 2:40 PM
            >
            > > > Subject: [S-R] "Slavish" means
            > Carpatho-Rusyn?
            >
            > > >
            >
            > > > I am seeing a lot of references to the use of the
            > word "Slavish" as an
            >
            > > identifier means specifically Carpatho-Rusyn. Does
            > anyone have an opinion
            >
            > > on how true that is?
            >
            > > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > > > ------------------------------------
            >
            > > >
            >
            > > > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS
            > WILL BE BLOCKED.
            >
            > > >
            >
            > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            >
            > > > _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/_
            >
            >
            > > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/)
            >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
            >
            > > _http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS_
            > (http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS)
            > -or- send
            >
            > > blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@! Groups
            > Links
            >
            > > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
            > removed]
            >
            > > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • William C. Wormuth
            Dear Helene, Me too! Our people came here to work as slaves and the population in the local, had little to no respect for our people.  Here were known, on
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 1, 2012
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear Helene,
              Me too!
              Our people came here to work as slaves and the population in the local, had little to no respect for our people.  Here were known, "on the streets" as Dumb "Round-heads", Italians, "Ginnies" or "Wops.

              Slovak people were used to this kind of treatment as Magyrs refered to our people as "Buta Toth" [Buhtah-Toht] which translates as Silly Slovaks but is more demeaning.  I always laughed when thinking about my grandfather being a stupid round-head, since he read and wrote, Slovak, Hungarian, Low German, High German and English, was a floor manager in a leather mill, worked in a casket factory, was a game protector, etc  

              S Panem Bohem,

              Vilo



              ________________________________
              From: helene cincebeaux <helenezx@...>
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, June 1, 2012 9:11 PM
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: "Slavish" means Carpatho-Rusyn?


               
              In that same vein i why does it bother me when people say Slovakian instead of Slovak? but it does.

              helene

              --- On Fri, 6/1/12, William C. Wormuth <senzus@...> wrote:

              > From: William C. Wormuth <senzus@...>
              > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: "Slavish" means Carpatho-Rusyn?
              > To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
              > Date: Friday, June 1, 2012, 8:30 PM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Ron,
              >
              >
              >
              > Our people used Slovak [Sloh-vahk]  but in later years when
              > I traveled around among Slovaks here it disturbed me when
              > people use Slovak [Sloh-vehk].
              >
              >
              >
              > S Panem Bohom,
              >
              >
              >
              > Vilo
              >
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              >
              > From: Ron <amiak27@...>
              >
              > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              > Sent: Friday, June 1, 2012 8:35 AM
              >
              > Subject: [S-R] Re: "Slavish" means
              > Carpatho-Rusyn?
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              > I borrowed directly from the site David lists below:
              >
              > *********
              >
              > Slavish, Slovac, Slavack...
              >
              >
              >
              > When the immigrants used English in the 19th and early 20th
              > centuries, they were often as uncertain of the English
              > versions of their ethnic names as the Americans were
              > confounded by the similarity. In addition to calling their
              > fraternals and parishes Slovak, some Slovak-Americans would
              > name them Slovac and Slavish. The word Slovak generally
              > replaced other versions in the names of Slovak-American
              > organizations by the mid-1920s. Although not as common in
              > Slovak-American documents, English-language sources also
              > used Slavack, Slovish, and similar words. Context is usually
              > required to clarify whether the reference was to the
              > Slovaks, Slavs, or Slovenes.
              >
              > *******
              >
              >
              >
              > I have one cousin who uses Slavish to this day to refer to
              > us. I always took it as old time immigrant language, much as
              > references to Slovakland, which were quite clear in meaning
              > when used so long ago.
              >
              >
              >
              > The English word slavish as in slavish devotion, I always
              > associated with old slavery as well, but have never studied
              > the etymology. Jumping to conclusions from simple similarity
              > can be dangerous, as associating Germs with Germany.
              >
              >
              >
              > During this ongoing visit to Eastern Slovakia I have been
              > getting good exercise to my poor command of Slovak, but am
              > improving. They Rusyn I am exposed to is quite different.
              > The Easter Slovak dialect, however, presents no problem.
              >
              >
              >
              > That is one experience.
              >
              >
              >
              > Vilo, do you find the use only in English, or was it used by
              > the old immigrants you knew over here?
              >
              >
              >
              > Ron
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com,
              > david1law@... wrote:
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Hello:
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Here is a good link to the Slovak Studies Program at
              > the University of
              >
              > > Pittsburgh that may shed some light as to the various
              > names for the Slavic
              >
              > > people as well as how it relates to the word
              > "slavery":
              >
              > >
              >
              > > _http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html_
              >
              >
              > > (http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html)
              >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > I hope that this helps a little.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Best regards,
              >
              > >
              >
              > > David
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > In a message dated 5/31/2012 8:50:20 P.M. Eastern
              > Daylight Time,
              >
              > > r.helms@... writes:
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > I have never heard the word slavish, except in
              > reference to slavery. My
              >
              > > Aunt Anna was Slovak (parents where from Slovakia) and
              > she was married to
              >
              > > Uncle Frank who was Slavic (he came from Yugoslavia), I
              > was told, by my Aunt,
              >
              > > to never mix them up.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com_
              > (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
              >
              >
              > > , "Corinne C. Musto" <gershwin417@>
              > wrote:
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > Hello,
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > This website gives some good information.
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > Corinne
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > _http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html_
              >
              >
              > > (http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html)
              >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > ________________________________
              >
              > > > From: "sarah.sundquist@"
              > <sarah.sundquist@>
              >
              > > > To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com_
              > (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
              >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 2:40 PM
              >
              > > > Subject: [S-R] "Slavish" means
              > Carpatho-Rusyn?
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > I am seeing a lot of references to the use of the
              > word "Slavish" as an
              >
              > > identifier means specifically Carpatho-Rusyn. Does
              > anyone have an opinion
              >
              > > on how true that is?
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > ------------------------------------
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS
              > WILL BE BLOCKED.
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              >
              > > > _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/_
              >
              >
              > > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/)
              >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
              >
              > > _http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS_
              > (http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS)
              > -or- send
              >
              > > blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@! Groups
              > Links
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > >
              >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              > > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • slovak821@aol.com
              Me, too. It makes me want to scream. ... From: helene cincebeaux To: SLOVAK-ROOTS Sent: Fri, Jun 1, 2012
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 2, 2012
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                Me, too. It makes me want to scream.



                -----Original Message-----
                From: helene cincebeaux <helenezx@...>
                To: SLOVAK-ROOTS <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Fri, Jun 1, 2012 9:11 pm
                Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: "Slavish" means Carpatho-Rusyn?




                In that same vein i why does it bother me when people say Slovakian instead of Slovak? but it does.

                helene

                --- On Fri, 6/1/12, William C. Wormuth <senzus@...> wrote:

                > From: William C. Wormuth <senzus@...>
                > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: "Slavish" means Carpatho-Rusyn?
                > To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                > Date: Friday, June 1, 2012, 8:30 PM
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Ron,
                >
                >
                >
                > Our people used Slovak [Sloh-vahk] but in later years when
                > I traveled around among Slovaks here it disturbed me when
                > people use Slovak [Sloh-vehk].
                >
                >
                >
                > S Panem Bohom,
                >
                >
                >
                > Vilo
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                >
                > From: Ron <amiak27@...>
                >
                > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                > Sent: Friday, June 1, 2012 8:35 AM
                >
                > Subject: [S-R] Re: "Slavish" means
                > Carpatho-Rusyn?
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > I borrowed directly from the site David lists below:
                >
                > *********
                >
                > Slavish, Slovac, Slavack...
                >
                >
                >
                > When the immigrants used English in the 19th and early 20th
                > centuries, they were often as uncertain of the English
                > versions of their ethnic names as the Americans were
                > confounded by the similarity. In addition to calling their
                > fraternals and parishes Slovak, some Slovak-Americans would
                > name them Slovac and Slavish. The word Slovak generally
                > replaced other versions in the names of Slovak-American
                > organizations by the mid-1920s. Although not as common in
                > Slovak-American documents, English-language sources also
                > used Slavack, Slovish, and similar words. Context is usually
                > required to clarify whether the reference was to the
                > Slovaks, Slavs, or Slovenes.
                >
                > *******
                >
                >
                >
                > I have one cousin who uses Slavish to this day to refer to
                > us. I always took it as old time immigrant language, much as
                > references to Slovakland, which were quite clear in meaning
                > when used so long ago.
                >
                >
                >
                > The English word slavish as in slavish devotion, I always
                > associated with old slavery as well, but have never studied
                > the etymology. Jumping to conclusions from simple similarity
                > can be dangerous, as associating Germs with Germany.
                >
                >
                >
                > During this ongoing visit to Eastern Slovakia I have been
                > getting good exercise to my poor command of Slovak, but am
                > improving. They Rusyn I am exposed to is quite different.
                > The Easter Slovak dialect, however, presents no problem.
                >
                >
                >
                > That is one experience.
                >
                >
                >
                > Vilo, do you find the use only in English, or was it used by
                > the old immigrants you knew over here?
                >
                >
                >
                > Ron
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com,
                > david1law@... wrote:
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Hello:
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Here is a good link to the Slovak Studies Program at
                > the University of
                >
                > > Pittsburgh that may shed some light as to the various
                > names for the Slavic
                >
                > > people as well as how it relates to the word
                > "slavery":
                >
                > >
                >
                > > _http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html_
                >
                >
                > > (http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html)
                >
                >
                > >
                >
                > > I hope that this helps a little.
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Best regards,
                >
                > >
                >
                > > David
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > > In a message dated 5/31/2012 8:50:20 P.M. Eastern
                > Daylight Time,
                >
                > > r.helms@... writes:
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > > I have never heard the word slavish, except in
                > reference to slavery. My
                >
                > > Aunt Anna was Slovak (parents where from Slovakia) and
                > she was married to
                >
                > > Uncle Frank who was Slavic (he came from Yugoslavia), I
                > was told, by my Aunt,
                >
                > > to never mix them up.
                >
                > >
                >
                > > --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com_
                > (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                >
                >
                > > , "Corinne C. Musto" <gershwin417@>
                > wrote:
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > Hello,
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > This website gives some good information.
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > Corinne
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > _http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html_
                >
                >
                > > (http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html)
                >
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > ________________________________
                >
                > > > From: "sarah.sundquist@"
                > <sarah.sundquist@>
                >
                > > > To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com_
                > (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                >
                >
                > >
                >
                > > > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 2:40 PM
                >
                > > > Subject: [S-R] "Slavish" means
                > Carpatho-Rusyn?
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > I am seeing a lot of references to the use of the
                > word "Slavish" as an
                >
                > > identifier means specifically Carpatho-Rusyn. Does
                > anyone have an opinion
                >
                > > on how true that is?
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > ------------------------------------
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS
                > WILL BE BLOCKED.
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                >
                > > > _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/_
                >
                >
                > > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/)
                >
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                >
                > > _http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS_
                > (http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS)
                > -or- send
                >
                > > blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@! Groups
                > Links
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > removed]
                >
                > > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • slovak821@aol.com
                That was my brother s favorite saying. ... From: mikebelan1 To: SLOVAK-ROOTS Sent: Fri, Jun 1, 2012 9:51
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 2, 2012
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  That was my brother's favorite saying.



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: mikebelan1 <mikebelan1@...>
                  To: SLOVAK-ROOTS <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Fri, Jun 1, 2012 9:51 pm
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: "Slavish" means Carpatho-Rusyn?




                  Just remember, there are two kind of people in this world. Slovak, and those who wish they were.


                  Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: helene cincebeaux <helenezx@...>
                  Sender: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 18:11:22
                  To: <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                  Reply-To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: "Slavish" means Carpatho-Rusyn?

                  In that same vein i why does it bother me when people say Slovakian instead of Slovak? but it does.

                  helene

                  --- On Fri, 6/1/12, William C. Wormuth <senzus@...> wrote:

                  > From: William C. Wormuth <senzus@...>
                  > Subject: Re: [S-R] Re: "Slavish" means Carpatho-Rusyn?
                  > To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Date: Friday, June 1, 2012, 8:30 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Ron,
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Our people used Slovak [Sloh-vahk] but in later years when
                  > I traveled around among Slovaks here it disturbed me when
                  > people use Slovak [Sloh-vehk].
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > S Panem Bohom,
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Vilo
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  >
                  > From: Ron <amiak27@...>
                  >
                  > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  > Sent: Friday, June 1, 2012 8:35 AM
                  >
                  > Subject: [S-R] Re: "Slavish" means
                  > Carpatho-Rusyn?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I borrowed directly from the site David lists below:
                  >
                  > *********
                  >
                  > Slavish, Slovac, Slavack...
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > When the immigrants used English in the 19th and early 20th
                  > centuries, they were often as uncertain of the English
                  > versions of their ethnic names as the Americans were
                  > confounded by the similarity. In addition to calling their
                  > fraternals and parishes Slovak, some Slovak-Americans would
                  > name them Slovac and Slavish. The word Slovak generally
                  > replaced other versions in the names of Slovak-American
                  > organizations by the mid-1920s. Although not as common in
                  > Slovak-American documents, English-language sources also
                  > used Slavack, Slovish, and similar words. Context is usually
                  > required to clarify whether the reference was to the
                  > Slovaks, Slavs, or Slovenes.
                  >
                  > *******
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I have one cousin who uses Slavish to this day to refer to
                  > us. I always took it as old time immigrant language, much as
                  > references to Slovakland, which were quite clear in meaning
                  > when used so long ago.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The English word slavish as in slavish devotion, I always
                  > associated with old slavery as well, but have never studied
                  > the etymology. Jumping to conclusions from simple similarity
                  > can be dangerous, as associating Germs with Germany.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > During this ongoing visit to Eastern Slovakia I have been
                  > getting good exercise to my poor command of Slovak, but am
                  > improving. They Rusyn I am exposed to is quite different.
                  > The Easter Slovak dialect, however, presents no problem.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > That is one experience.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Vilo, do you find the use only in English, or was it used by
                  > the old immigrants you knew over here?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Ron
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com,
                  > david1law@... wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > Hello:
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > Here is a good link to the Slovak Studies Program at
                  > the University of
                  >
                  > > Pittsburgh that may shed some light as to the various
                  > names for the Slavic
                  >
                  > > people as well as how it relates to the word
                  > "slavery":
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > _http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html_
                  >
                  >
                  > > (http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html)
                  >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > I hope that this helps a little.
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > Best regards,
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > David
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > In a message dated 5/31/2012 8:50:20 P.M. Eastern
                  > Daylight Time,
                  >
                  > > r.helms@... writes:
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > I have never heard the word slavish, except in
                  > reference to slavery. My
                  >
                  > > Aunt Anna was Slovak (parents where from Slovakia) and
                  > she was married to
                  >
                  > > Uncle Frank who was Slavic (he came from Yugoslavia), I
                  > was told, by my Aunt,
                  >
                  > > to never mix them up.
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > --- In _SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com_
                  > (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                  >
                  >
                  > > , "Corinne C. Musto" <gershwin417@>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > Hello,
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > This website gives some good information.
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > Corinne
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > _http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html_
                  >
                  >
                  > > (http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html)
                  >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > ________________________________
                  >
                  > > > From: "sarah.sundquist@"
                  > <sarah.sundquist@>
                  >
                  > > > To: _SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com_
                  > (mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com)
                  >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 2:40 PM
                  >
                  > > > Subject: [S-R] "Slavish" means
                  > Carpatho-Rusyn?
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > I am seeing a lot of references to the use of the
                  > word "Slavish" as an
                  >
                  > > identifier means specifically Carpatho-Rusyn. Does
                  > anyone have an opinion
                  >
                  > > on how true that is?
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS
                  > WILL BE BLOCKED.
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  >
                  > > > _http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/_
                  >
                  >
                  > > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/)
                  >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
                  >
                  > > _http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS_
                  > (http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS)
                  > -or- send
                  >
                  > > blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@! Groups
                  > Links
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > removed]
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.