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Re: [S-R] Comment on "alias" surnames

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  • deeellessbee
    I ve been following this discussion with great interest! In my own research, I was getting absolutely nowhere with a line, and then to my great good fortune
    Message 1 of 35 , May 30, 2012
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      I've been following this discussion with great interest! In my own research, I was getting absolutely nowhere with a line, and then to my great good fortune someone saw a post of mine on a rather outdated, little-visited message board. The person contacted me to say that he thought we may have a connection, and it was this person - who did indeed turn out to be a cousin - who told me about alias or nick names. I had absolutely no idea about them!

      Thanks to this person, I learned about the alias names, and using this other name given to me by the person, was able to go back into the church records and find my family.

      In all the research I have done, I believe I only have one record where both names are used. Other than that, sometimes it's one name, sometimes it's the other. So I know from personal experience that this situation of names, if one doesn't know about them, can be extremely frustrating for the researcher.

      Michael, that was an interesting story you told about your grandmother, and her using someone's else name to immigrate. Something to keep in mind certainly, while researching!

      Thanks for a great discussion!
      Debbie


      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "William C. Wormuth" <senzus@...> wrote:
      >
      > Barbara,
      >
      > Ellis entry for 2 Jan Varsanik men, both from Budkovce, Eastern Slovakia, Michalovce district.
      >
      >
      > http://www.ellisisland.org/search/matchMore.asp?order_num=574994459&MID=02136237240060444448&order_num=574994459&ORDER_ID=1600197672&LNM=VARSANIK&PLNM=VARSANIK&first_kind=1&last_kind=0&RF=1&kind=close&offset=0&dwpdone=1
      >
      >
      > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budkovce
      >
      > http://www.ellisisland.org/search/matchMore.asp?MID=02136237240060444448&order_num=574994459&ORDER_ID=1600197672&LNM=LACKO&PLNM=LACKO&first_kind=1&kind=exact&offset=0&dwpdone=1
      >
      >
      > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budkovce
      >
      > Z Bohom,
      >
      > Vilo
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: William C. Wormuth <senzus@...>
      > To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 4:30 AM
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Comment on "alias" surnames
      >
      >
      >  
      > Barbara,
      >
      > The following phone numbers for your names, (spelled in Slovak), as Lacko/Vars~anik.
      >
      > http://telefonny.zoznam.sk/Lacko/slovensko/
      >
      > http://telefonny.zoznam.sk/Varsanik/slovensko/
      >
      > Z Bohom,
      >
      > Vilo
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: genmom4 <geismom@...>
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 10:03 PM
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Comment on "alias" surnames
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      > Dear Michael,
      > I do not have any information to substantiate the hyphenated name. However, this one family has quite the variety when it comes to church record entries.
      >
      > What I have found is that the alias was not always documented.
      >
      > For instance: I have a birth record for a man with merely Varsanyik as his surname. When he marries he is noted as Lackso/Varsanyik. The 1869 census makes no mention of the name Lackso. Yet, the man was married 16 years prior to the census with the alias name in the record.
      >
      > One generation later:
      > I have a daughter's baptism recorded as Laczko/Varsanyik. A note showing a death date led me to that date to find the child listing a father with the surname Laczko without any mention of an alias. Had the note on the birth record not given the specific date, I would not have so easily connected the two as the same child, despite the house number being mentioned.
      >
      > The confirmation records for my gr. grandmother and her sister don't show the alias name. Merely Varsanyik yet her baptismal record shows Laczko/Varsanyik.
      >
      > This woman, Anna Varsanyik, emigrated on the Graf Waldersee in 1906, arriving on Dec. 7 into New York. I have never been able to find her in the 1910 census under the name Varsanyik, which often made me wonder if she may have used her alias name after arriving in the U.S.
      >
      > The alias name came as a complete surprise to all of us when I discovered it several years ago. I never took the time to try to find out where the Lazko connection came from. It's still a mystery.
      >
      > Barbara
      >
      > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Barbara,
      > > Thanks for your contribution to the discussion.
      > > Do you have any context as to the use of the Lackso alias with your Varsanyik surname?
      > > For instance when a widow remarried her children could end up with a hyphenated surname. Or the children take on the new husbands surname.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • William C. Wormuth
      1900 census:
      Message 35 of 35 , May 31, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        1900 census: https://www.familysearch.org/search/records/index#count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3AMorris~%20%2Bresidence_place%3A%22Bethlehem%2C%20PA%22%20%2Bdeath_place%3A%22Bethlehem%2C%20PA%22~%20%2Bdeath_year%3A1907-1910~

        In case you don't receive: John Moris, 1900 Census: Born 1870, Hungary.  Immigration 1899.  To South Bethlehem borough, Northampton, Pennsylvania. Living with Michael Anderslo.

        Z Bohom,

        Vilo



        ________________________________
        From: William C. Wormuth <senzus@...>
        To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 10:25 PM
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Comment on "alias" surnames


        Moris~ [Moh-rrish] is close to Morris.  I looked up a family on Ellis and found they came from Kassa,[Kah-shah Hungarian for Kos~ice.  The original manifest listed Moris.  They came to Newark, NJ.  I believe the man's name was Johan or Jan Morris and was a Slovak.  Most Slovak men with the name Jan [Yah] or Josef [Yoh-sef], Julia [Yuhli-a].....etc.. to the American "J".

        Z Bohom,

        Vilo


        ________________________________
        From: Gary Toth <tothga@...>
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 8:23 PM
        Subject: RE: [S-R] Comment on "alias" surnames


         
        Barbara,

        To add to Vilo's excellent comments, I must tell you that I have also found the reverse in immigration records. One of the boat manifests had family members showing a destination of Bethlehem, PA to stay with "John Morris". At first, this seems like a (UK) English name. But that makes no sense for a Hungarian family. Working phonetically in reverse and filtering back in Hungarian, John goes back to János and Morris goes back to Marász (the accented "a" sounds like "ah" and the unaccented "a" sounds like "aw"; "sz" sounds like "s".--and the verbal accent almost always falls to the first syllable.) While there are many variations of the name Marász, it became a breakthrough in my prior research. Now, I always keep an "ear" for all written records spun back to Hungarian.

        Viszontlátásra, Gary

        -----Original Message-----
        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William C. Wormuth
        Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 17:32
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] Comment on "alias" surnames

        Barbara,

        Use of "nj" and ny, in the spelling of Varas~n~ik is for correct pronunciation of the soft "n~" sound. The ~ used here is to replace the accent marks in written Slovak "v", over the letter s~ = sh c~ = ch z~ = zh o~ = woh n~ = ny c = ts

        Hungarian does not use the accent marks.

        s = sh
        cz = ts
        cs = ch

        Many people experience problems with immigration records because the names are written in Hungarian and towns using Hungarian names.

        Names:
        Istvan [Eessht-vahn] = S~tefa [Shteh-fahn]=Stephen

        Erzsabet [Ehrrzh-bet] = Alz~beta = Elizabeth

        There have been cases where immigrants continued to use the spellings as registerd in the papers because they were afraid to have problems if the use the real names and spellings

        I hope I have been helpful.

        Z Bohom,

        Vilo

        ________________________________
        From: genmom4 <geismom@...>
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 3:00 PM

        Subject: Re: [S-R] Comment on "alias" surnames


        Great story, Michael.

        In regards to the Varsanik's that you have listed, they are all the "other family".
        My Varsanyik family is from Sliepkovce, formerly known as Szelepka. Vilo's post shows a telephone listing of a person still living in the town.

        Anna Varsanik is actually listed under Varsanjik on ellis island.
        It is not easy to find as the page has been ripped at the bottom and her entry is near the bottom of the page.

        http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipManifest.asp?pID=102337050086

        She is going to meet her father Istvan, Varsanik in Munhall PA. To my knowledge, Istvan traveled back and forth but never settled in the US. I did find him on a couple of manifests coming over.

        Anna's manifest shows her coming from Jonesfalu which is really Denesujfalu.
        John Adam helped me recognize that many years ago.
        Here is the listing from Cisarek (which was not online at the time of my original search)

        1863?1902 Szelepka, 1907?1913 D?es?falu,

        The one family of Varsaniks seems to have located in Johnstown, PA. I have not ever followed through on any possible connections with that family.

        Perhaps in the future I will investigate this side more. All this discussions about aliases has raised my curiosity a bit. When I began searching this line I was a "newbie". It's always worth going back and doing some more looking at the films.

        Thanks for the input from everyone.

        Barbara
        --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@...> wrote:
        >
        > Barbara,
        > One of the difficulties of genealogy is we use the perspective of
        > the 21st century to view what was going on in the 1800?? and early
        > 1900??. In order to understand the whys and wherefores during those
        > time periods is very difficult. We have only glimpses into what that
        > world was like and getting those takes a lot of study that goes beyond
        > the bones of genealogy. I think we all want to ??lesh out?? what we
        > have discovered in our genealogy research. But that is very difficult
        > to do because the choices that were made for our individual family
        > members is the great unknown. Unless you can come across a letter or
        > diary where they tell you the reasons they decided to immigrate to
        > America, it is nothing but dust in the wind. There has been enough
        > research to give the ??easons??, but we do not know which one applies
        > to our ancestors. We just have to assume that what ever condition they
        > were living in was not satisfactory and there
        was a chance to escape it.
        > I am fortunate because I have a very romantic story on how my maternal grandmother was able to come to America. The family lore was she had arranged with her god-mother that she would get money to her. And when the time came the god-mother would let her know. According to my mother when the time came the god-mother came to my grandmother?? parents house and called for her. When she came out the god-mother opened her apron and there was all the money my grandmother had saved. And her god-mother proclaimed, ??t is time for you to go to America!?? For the time period she was under aged, so she borrowed an ID card for another girl who was of age and bought her ticket for America. As I discovered this was a common practice since there were no ??hoto ID?? cards in those days. Thus I understood why I couldn?? find her entry into the USA, she used someone else's name.
        > The point is that the era we are doing our genealogy research in has a variety of uses for surnames and aliases. Each location had it particular practice. Our job is to try and learn of them and try to unravel the the mess that can be created with the use of ??o names?? and aliases.
        > If you are fortunate you can contact your ancestral village and discover why the Lackso/Varsanyik names were used as they were. I discovered the why for my villages, but they are not necessarily the same as your village.
        > Age, born, arrived
        >
        > 356 Varsanyik, Andre Nagy Mihaly 55 1852 1907
        > 357 Varsanyik, Andvasne Nagy Mihaly 49 1858 1907
        > 358 Varsanyik, Gyorgy Nagy Mihaly 11 1896 1907
        > 359 Varsanyik, Janos Nagy Mihaly 16 1891 1907
        > 360 Varsanyik, Julia Nagy Mihaly 14 1893 1907 From the Ellis Island
        > Records for the surmame Varsanyik
        >
        > Michalovce MI/KI zempl?n./u?horod. 1925 pri?l. o. Str??any [u?horod.]; 1960 pri?l. o. Mo?arany [zempl?n.], Topo?any [zempl?n.], Vrbovec [u?horod.].
        > 1773 Nagy-Mih?ly, Mihalowcze, 1786 Nagy-S[ent]-Mih?ly, Mihalowce,
        > Nagy-Mih?ly, 1808 Nagy-Mih?ly, Gro?-Michl, Michalany, Michalowce,
        > 1863?"1913 Nagymih?ly, 1920 Micha?ovce, 1927?" Michalovce
        >
        > First Name: Anna
        > Last Name: Varsanyik
        > Ethnicity: Hungary, Hungarian
        > Last Place of Residence:
        > Date of Arrival: Oct 31, 1895
        > Age at Arrival: 18y Gender: F Marital Status: S
        > Ship of Travel: Lahn
        > Port of Departure: Bremen
        > Manifest Line Number: 0391
        >
        > Unfortunately, no Last Place of Residence
        > Your Anna in 1906 was not listed. Where did you get that information?
        >
        >
        > From: genmom4
        > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 7:03 PM
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] Comment on "alias" surnames
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Dear Michael,
        > I do not have any information to substantiate the hyphenated name. However, this one family has quite the variety when it comes to church record entries.
        >
        > What I have found is that the alias was not always documented.
        >
        > For instance: I have a birth record for a man with merely Varsanyik as his surname. When he marries he is noted as Lackso/Varsanyik. The 1869 census makes no mention of the name Lackso. Yet, the man was married 16 years prior to the census with the alias name in the record.
        >
        > One generation later:
        > I have a daughter's baptism recorded as Laczko/Varsanyik. A note showing a death date led me to that date to find the child listing a father with the surname Laczko without any mention of an alias. Had the note on the birth record not given the specific date, I would not have so easily connected the two as the same child, despite the house number being mentioned.
        >
        > The confirmation records for my gr. grandmother and her sister don't show the alias name. Merely Varsanyik yet her baptismal record shows Laczko/Varsanyik.
        >
        > This woman, Anna Varsanyik, emigrated on the Graf Waldersee in 1906, arriving on Dec. 7 into New York. I have never been able to find her in the 1910 census under the name Varsanyik, which often made me wonder if she may have used her alias name after arriving in the U.S.
        >
        > The alias name came as a complete surprise to all of us when I discovered it several years ago. I never took the time to try to find out where the Lazko connection came from. It's still a mystery.
        >
        > Barbara
        >
        > --- In mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Barbara,
        > > Thanks for your contribution to the discussion.
        > > Do you have any context as to the use of the Lackso alias with your Varsanyik surname?
        > > For instance when a widow remarried her children could end up with a hyphenated surname. Or the children take on the new husbands surname.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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