Re: [S-R] Project: Uni Student Work Offer
- Instead of transcribing records I discovered I am much more a historian than a genealogist. As fast as I am moving with the information the next generation will have to take what I have gathered and crunch the numbers. My primary interest is how people lived, though it would be nice to locate the birth of the one mysterious grandfather.
I did download all of the data for one village and most of the data for the second village (mother and father villages) and have checked it for SOME general information. In round numbers it appears a village of about 500 had about 750 trips to America over 30 years, no idea how many round trips included. The one set of grandparents returned and bought the dream farm, so I have an aunt and close cousins I will see again in a week or two.
I haven't looked at social life much, the titles seem pretty consistent between land holders and those without. I have concluded that our modern sense of property does not fit the Old Hungarian mold. Illigitimacies seemed to come (mostly) from one family in one village and one 'suburb' in the other, seemingly with Gypsy names. There were a few clusters, so it makes me wonder what event, holiday or celebration took place. I couldn't tie it to a particular war and soldier recruiting.
The histories I have read of the village - online at tcc.web , from the village publication in Slovak, and from word searches in Google Books, have definite gaps in time and in information, so there are a lot of gaps to fill in, if possible. Happily there seems to be much more information locally than we can be aware of int he USA, so improvements can be made. I did find references to 1613 glass production in the one village, and a 'huta' (foundary) neighborhood today, but NO fill in information.
I think some of the problem can be solved by letting locals know there is interest out there, and hoping some local historian is searching for an audience.
Even with 40 years of travel over there, 2 years ago I still found a course in basic Slovak to be a great expansion of my perspectives. Not only for language and nuances in some of the words and names of geographic features, but for an extended exposure to the details of te modern culture through 10 weeks of being exposed to a native speaking profesorka and all she conveyed in addition to the language. If I had planned better, I would have traveled later this summer and included a refresher basic course in the language.
Peter, I am quite surprised that Ron C. or another has not answered you on the Jakubany forum. I can only suggest you do a word search and look back at the beginnings of the forum when they talked about the amount of work they had to accomplish. I will write to them and suggest they add a file explaining who they are and what they have done. I glanced around a bit and saw nothing of the kind, which is hindering anyone in your position.
--- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Margo Smith <margolane61@...> wrote:
> Interesting response Peter.
> Actually, in "my" parish, the population gradually increased through time. Cause of death is not recorded in all periods, so I don't really know that. I expected to find more childbirth related deaths than the few I did. It seems that there very well may be a lot of variability from one area to another -- I was particularly curious about differences between mining towns and other large "urban" areas and my small ag. villages. Yes, I also map the connections. I did not find that women married up. Also not much age difference between spouses at time of first marriage, tho husband almost always older than wife. Yes, women married younger overall. My sense is that illegitimate children were more lokely do die as children, but I didn't actually count them. Never a "rash" of illegitimacies in my villages. Yes, knowing the local history is important, but hard to get to villages in the 17th and 18th cents.
> The age of the widow at time of widowment was crucial. The only widows who remarried were young enough to have additional children, and did. Almost all widowers remarried.
> The first village I started with in my parish had 9 taxpayers in 1715, about 15 families in all in the late 1600s. So I am dealing with lots fewer people than you are. I would go crazy if there were 1400 pop. to track! (I am studying the ancestry of 3 sets of siblings born in about the 1890s. All had ancestors in my parish, and all in my tiny village with the 9 taxpayers. I picked this village because it is the only one which gave rise to all 3 sets of siblings, because it is small, and because I really like it nestled there against the mountain.)
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: htcstech <htcstech@...>
> > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> > Cc:
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 9:00 PM
> > Subject: Re: [S-R] Project: Uni Student Work Offer
> >T hanks for a great response Margo.
> > #4 and #3 for me was simple maths - cause and effect: When a generation is> > ravaged by disease with lots of infant deaths - 20 years on this shows up> > in the decreased rates of marriages - then decreased rates of births. I too> > wonder what role the priest(s) had in this, whether they were genetic> > mentors of their flock. or just trying to keep the population growing - as> > I've seen them add up births/deaths/marriages at year's end.
> > #1 It's the social aspect that intrigues me too. Class and Ethnic
> > distinctions etc. What I intend to do is to map theseconnections. I
> > suspect that each generation has their own social groupings. I've also seen> > that the women do in fact marry higher into the social ladder. This would> > have a significant effect on their parents' lives.
> > Marriages between young and old. Older women seeking younger men have been> > accused as witches and tried in court in nearby Bratislava as well as other> > centres in Slovakia as late as 1760. A young 15 yr old girl marrying a 50> > year old noble gets away scot-free with the blessings of the priest. Or a> > rash of Illegitimate children in one period, in one village - many of these
> > (maybe) conveniently died after birth. Multiple drowning deaths -
> > unidentified dead bodies found in the Duna?
> > Knowing the local, district and regional histories really helps in
> > determining the mindset. Yet the danger here is that we automatically> > impose our world views (morals and ethics) on the past. We have to think> > like them to understand them.
> > #5 Widowers need care and more male children and most widows are busy
> > looking after their own? What about the number of Males vs Females?
> > I agree with your last statement about doing it by hand. I regret that I> > didn't start transcribing much earlier as I have found some very> > interesting events. But I'm looking at a stable 1400 population over 250> > years in just one village - and I should expand that to at least another 2
> > villages. That's a lot of data entry.
> > Peter M.
> > On 2 May 2012 04:17, Margo Smith <margolane61@...> wrote:
> >> **
> >> Yes, Peter, I started doing this last year with one of my parishes> >> encompassing about 6 small villages. (I presented a paper on this at the> >> CGSI meeting last Oct.) Records start in the 1670s. I got up to about> >> 1750 when I got derailed by a sick spouse. Without going back to my notes> >> at this moment, I was struck by:
> >> 1) the extent to which people selected spouses from other villages rather> >> than their own village. I got thinking about this when I realized that two> >> villages tended to select spouses and godparents from each other but not> >> from the other villages in the parish. Yes, I finally figured it out. In> >> the end, people had broader social networks than I had expected during> >> feudalism. But I wonder if this was an atypical parish, located on a major> >> trade route. So I will be very curious about your results.
> >> 2) the extent to which families initially conntected by baptismal> >> godparenthood become connected by marriage in later generations> >> 3) I wonder about the extent to which spouses are selected from other> >> villages because of recent epidemics which killed potential spouses -- or> >> epidemics 20 years or so prior which killed potential spouses as small> >> children. If I had to guess right now, I'd guess the latter because> > there
> >> are lots more young children deaths than 20 yr. old deaths.
> >> 4) the extent to which the number of marriages per year could double or> >> halve from year to year
> >> 5) very low rate of widow remarriage vs. widower remarriage I figured> >> that out too.
> >> 7) the population was very dynamic.
> >> I was getting interesting results. Maybe I should re-visit these data. .
> >> . . .hmmmm
> >> Yes, I did all the work myself by hand. The advantage of doing the work> >> yourself is that you might get clues about what to look for in analysis as> >> you go along.
> >> Must run. Time to fix the spouse something to eat.
> >> Margo
> >> From: htcstech <htcstech@...>
> >> >To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
> >> >Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 10:31 PM
> >> >Subject: [S-R] Project: Uni Student Work Offer
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Hello All,
> >> >I'm considering 'biting the bullet' in pursuing the social
> > relationships
> >> >within the whole village that is the seat of my ancestors.
> >> >Part of this would be transcribing church records into a database that> > can> >> >show interrelationships between families over time.
> >> >Slowly, I have been amassing historical information and my curiosity is> >> >getting ever so strong about the lives of these people.
> >> >
> >> >I could not help but notice that many families within the village> >> >intermarried with each other on many occasions. Sponsors were often > > from> >> >the same family names, high and low noble births and the effects of> >> >epidemics can all be seen in these records.
> >> >What makes this unique, is that the population was relevantly stable> > over> >> >250 years and these folks didn't travel or emigrate until the turn> > of the> >> >20th century when industrialisation took effect.
> >> >
> >> >So I sent 2 emails, one to the Uni of Bratislava and another to the> > Selye> >> >Uni. Both have courses in theology.
> >> >I asked if any student(s) would be willing to do contract work to> >> >transcribe church records into a database. (Doing this myself would > > result> >> >in my insanity.)
> >> >
> >> >I did a trial run on a few pages and I think that $75 per 150
> > double-pages
> >> >(open book) was perhaps a fair price to pay.
> >> >
> >> >As I don't really know about Slovak economy and wages, especially> > for> >> >students, I was wondering if anyone has any comment about this?
> >> >Also, what do you think about this project?
> >> >Has it been done before?
> >> >
> >> >Thanks
> >> >
> >> >Peter M.
> >> >