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Re: [S-R] Domicella Maria Kesmarszky

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  • William C. Wormuth
    Peter, I was told, that when the records for my town, Kúty, were taken and placed in the regional archives, a native Kúcan priest, (retired), hand copied
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 29, 2012
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      Peter,


      I was told, that when the records for my town, Kúty, were taken and placed in the regional archives, a native Kúcan priest, (retired), hand copied them.

      I can't imagine how but it was our pastor,in 1973 who told me.  I was also advised that when requested, the person will be sent to the archives.

      Being a Pastor involves a great deal of work.  He says mass twice daily, Morning and late in the afternoon.  He fills in when neighboring priests are away.  He must attend to funerals, ans Baptisms.  He teaches religion each day in schools.  He also manages the Parish, including finances.

      Yours and my writings here are contributions to Slovak-Roots because our people need to understand the "record seeking" process. 

      Thank you for your input.

      Z Bohom,

      Vilo




      ________________________________
      From: htcstech <htcstech@...>
      To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 1:59 AM
      Subject: Re: [S-R] Domicella Maria Kesmarszky

      I've heard most recently, that the village records 'Anyakonyv' prior to
      1895 were all collected and placed in the state and regional archives as
      they were in fact, the only civil registrations of the time. Churches were
      instructed by the secular authorities to record all baptisms/marriages and
      deaths according to a state rubric, even those of no religion. I'm not sure
      when this law started, but it meant that records were now owned by the
      state.

      Therefore only church records after 1895 are actually owned by the church.

      Now your mileage may vary, as I'm sure that some churches kept copies or
      were instructed to make copies, however there is one that I know of that
      has no record or copy and refers all questions relating to genealogy to the
      state archives. Post 1895 is a different story and soon, my people on the
      ground over there will soon find out if the very reluctant priest can be
      swayed to show what he's got.
      Slightly off topic, does any one have some ideas of how to sway a reluctant
      catholic priest?
      Some said a nice bottle of wine or maybe a significant donation?

      Peter M.

      On 30 April 2012 13:52, William C. Wormuth <senzus@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > http://torysa.ocu.sk/sk/
      >
      > Can anyone imagine Parishes in Slovakia searching records for anyone??
      > Records were moved to specific area locations.  I have no idea where for
      > this area but someone here might.
      >
      > Z Bohom,
      >
      > Vilo
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Jane Murray <jmurray6475@...>
      > To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com" <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 8:24 PM
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] Domicella Maria Kesmarszky
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Janet,
      > I know she is not related.  My question pertains to how would I find the
      > relationship between her and my ancestors?  Could it possibly be an
      > employer/employee situation, or maybe just friends.  You are correct, I
      > probably will never know. I am leaning towards the involvement with the
      > Church.  I have not seen her name tied to other individuals in the records
      > I was searching, but to be quite honest, I zero my searching to my
      > ancestors last name and not the Godparents name, so they could be tied to
      > others.
      > I rechecked the word "Domicella" in my translation book; it can mean Lady,
      > servant, or nun. My family was very religious, my gg grandfather was a
      > Cantor/Musician, when I think of Cantors I think of Church; his son (my g
      > grandfather) was said to be studying for the priesthood before he fell in
      > love with my ggrandmother.  I guess it is just wishful thinking on my part
      > that records would be kept at the Church or Town hall that would give some
      > indication of the history of Domicella Maria Kesmarszky, was she a nun, was
      > she a wealthy noble and where does my family fit into this?
      > I guess the show "Who do you think you are" gives a person the idea that
      > records are available you just need to keep digging to find them.  My
      > mission in the fall will be to write to the Church in Torysa, I believe I
      > will find my answers there, if not I can at least say I tried.  Jane
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Janet Kozlay <kozlay@...>
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 9:35 PM
      > Subject: RE: [S-R] Domicella Maria Kesmarszky
      >
      >
      > Jane, what makes you think that Maria Kesmarszky is related to your
      > ancestor? You indicate that she was listed only as godmother to the
      > children. Godparents were not ordinarily related to the family. Usually
      > they
      > were long-time friends of one of the parents. In the case of a noble acting
      > as godparent to a non-noble, there would most likely be a different reason.
      > I have seen instances where a noble acted as a godparent to several
      > families
      > in a village, perhaps because the duties of a godparent involved
      > considerable financial outlay and the noble was more able to absorb the
      > costs. I don't think it would be possible to find out today what other
      > reasons there might have been. You might want to check to see if she acted
      > as godmother to other families.
      >
      > Janet
      >
      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
      > On
      > Behalf Of Jane Murray
      > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 8:58 PM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [S-R] Domicella Maria Kesmarszky
      >
      > Okay... I started this. I probably spelled Domicella Maria "Kesmarszky"
      > incorrect listed on my Great,great, great Grandfather's and his siblings
      > birth records. As I originally stated I am not an expert on the fancy
      > penmanship written. I mistook a "J" for a "F". I have corrected my records
      > to "Kesmarszky" not Kesmanszky. If indeed she is the decendent of Georg
      > Kesmarszky who was ennobled in 1649 how does one find out what relationship
      > she would have to my ancestor Joannes Szabo? I will ask this again, is it
      > prudent for me to write to the local town government office in Torysa to
      > research records of Domicella Maria Kesmarszky & Joannes Szabo. I found the
      > following address online:
      >
      > Municipal Office Torysa
      > Torysa 28
      > 082 76 Torysa
      >
      > Is that enough of an address, seems incomplete? Based on your expert
      > knowledge of the government and history who do I address the correspondence
      > to? What will they need to do the research, should I include copies of the
      > baptismal records? Generally what is the fee for them to find newspaper
      > articles or civil records?
      >
      > I appreciate any comments or guidance. I did google "Georg Kesmarszky", one
      > suggestion was ancestry.com (I do not have a subscription) I will try
      > Family search.org.
      >
      > Jane
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >

      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      ------------------------------------

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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John
      ... Post 1895, the records are in the local civic records office. Of course, the church may have tracked its parishioners as well.
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 30, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        >>> Post 1895 is a different story and soon, my people on the ground over there will soon find out if the very reluctant priest can be swayed to show what he's got. <<<

        Post 1895, the records are in the local civic records office. Of course, the church may have tracked its parishioners as well.
      • helene cincebeaux
        These are good but try home-made slivovice or good brandy! helene
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 30, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          These are good but try home-made slivovice or good brandy!

          helene

          --- On Mon, 4/30/12, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:

          > From: htcstech <htcstech@...>
          > Subject: Re: [S-R] Domicella Maria Kesmarszky
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Monday, April 30, 2012, 1:59 AM
          > I've heard most recently, that the
          > village records 'Anyakonyv' prior to
          > 1895 were all collected and placed in the state and regional
          > archives as
          > they were in fact, the only civil registrations of the time.
          > Churches were
          > instructed by the secular authorities to record all
          > baptisms/marriages and
          > deaths according to a state rubric, even those of no
          > religion. I'm not sure
          > when this law started, but it meant that records were now
          > owned by the
          > state.
          >
          > Therefore only church records after 1895 are actually owned
          > by the church.
          >
          > Now your mileage may vary, as I'm sure that some churches
          > kept copies or
          > were instructed to make copies, however there is one that I
          > know of that
          > has no record or copy and refers all questions relating to
          > genealogy to the
          > state archives. Post 1895 is a different story and soon, my
          > people on the
          > ground over there will soon find out if the very reluctant
          > priest can be
          > swayed to show what he's got.
          > Slightly off topic, does any one have some ideas of how to
          > sway a reluctant
          > catholic priest?
          > Some said a nice bottle of wine or maybe a significant
          > donation?
          >
          > Peter M.
          >
          > On 30 April 2012 13:52, William C. Wormuth <senzus@...>
          > wrote:
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > http://torysa.ocu.sk/sk/
          > >
          > > Can anyone imagine Parishes in Slovakia searching
          > records for anyone??
          > > Records were moved to specific area locations.  I
          > have no idea where for
          > > this area but someone here might.
          > >
          > > Z Bohom,
          > >
          > > Vilo
          > >
          > > ________________________________
          > > From: Jane Murray <jmurray6475@...>
          > > To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com"
          > <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 8:24 PM
          > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Domicella Maria Kesmarszky
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Janet,
          > > I know she is not related.  My question pertains
          > to how would I find the
          > > relationship between her and my ancestors?  Could
          > it possibly be an
          > > employer/employee situation, or maybe just
          > friends.  You are correct, I
          > > probably will never know. I am leaning towards the
          > involvement with the
          > > Church.  I have not seen her name tied to other
          > individuals in the records
          > > I was searching, but to be quite honest, I zero my
          > searching to my
          > > ancestors last name and not the Godparents name, so
          > they could be tied to
          > > others.
          > > I rechecked the word "Domicella" in my translation
          > book; it can mean Lady,
          > > servant, or nun. My family was very religious, my gg
          > grandfather was a
          > > Cantor/Musician, when I think of Cantors I think of
          > Church; his son (my g
          > > grandfather) was said to be studying for the priesthood
          > before he fell in
          > > love with my ggrandmother.  I guess it is just
          > wishful thinking on my part
          > > that records would be kept at the Church or Town hall
          > that would give some
          > > indication of the history of Domicella Maria
          > Kesmarszky, was she a nun, was
          > > she a wealthy noble and where does my family fit into
          > this?
          > > I guess the show "Who do you think you are" gives a
          > person the idea that
          > > records are available you just need to keep digging to
          > find them.  My
          > > mission in the fall will be to write to the Church in
          > Torysa, I believe I
          > > will find my answers there, if not I can at least say I
          > tried.  Jane
          > >
          > > ________________________________
          > > From: Janet Kozlay <kozlay@...>
          > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 9:35 PM
          > > Subject: RE: [S-R] Domicella Maria Kesmarszky
          > >
          > >
          > > Jane, what makes you think that Maria Kesmarszky is
          > related to your
          > > ancestor? You indicate that she was listed only as
          > godmother to the
          > > children. Godparents were not ordinarily related to the
          > family. Usually
          > > they
          > > were long-time friends of one of the parents. In the
          > case of a noble acting
          > > as godparent to a non-noble, there would most likely be
          > a different reason.
          > > I have seen instances where a noble acted as a
          > godparent to several
          > > families
          > > in a village, perhaps because the duties of a godparent
          > involved
          > > considerable financial outlay and the noble was more
          > able to absorb the
          > > costs. I don't think it would be possible to find out
          > today what other
          > > reasons there might have been. You might want to check
          > to see if she acted
          > > as godmother to other families.
          > >
          > > Janet
          > >
          > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
          > > On
          > > Behalf Of Jane Murray
          > > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 8:58 PM
          > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: [S-R] Domicella Maria Kesmarszky
          > >
          > > Okay... I started this. I probably spelled Domicella
          > Maria "Kesmarszky"
          > > incorrect listed on my Great,great, great Grandfather's
          > and his siblings
          > > birth records. As I originally stated I am not an
          > expert on the fancy
          > > penmanship written. I mistook a "J" for a "F". I have
          > corrected my records
          > > to "Kesmarszky" not Kesmanszky. If indeed she is the
          > decendent of Georg
          > > Kesmarszky who was ennobled in 1649 how does one find
          > out what relationship
          > > she would have to my ancestor Joannes Szabo? I will ask
          > this again, is it
          > > prudent for me to write to the local town government
          > office in Torysa to
          > > research records of Domicella Maria Kesmarszky &
          > Joannes Szabo. I found the
          > > following address online:
          > >
          > > Municipal Office Torysa
          > > Torysa 28
          > > 082 76 Torysa
          > >
          > > Is that enough of an address, seems incomplete? Based
          > on your expert
          > > knowledge of the government and history who do I
          > address the correspondence
          > > to? What will they need to do the research, should I
          > include copies of the
          > > baptismal records? Generally what is the fee for them
          > to find newspaper
          > > articles or civil records?
          > >
          > > I appreciate any comments or guidance. I did google
          > "Georg Kesmarszky", one
          > > suggestion was ancestry.com (I do not have a
          > subscription) I will try
          > > Family search.org.
          > >
          > > Jane
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > > 
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY).  OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL
          > BE BLOCKED.
          >
          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS%c2%a0
          > -or- send  blank email to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo!
          > Groups Links
          >
          >
          >     SLOVAK-ROOTS-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
        • htcstech
          lol I should say that my dear mother who is in 78, is travelling there in a few weeks to sway the priest. She wanted to buy a special frock for the Sunday
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 30, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            lol
            I should say that my dear mother who is in 78, is travelling there in a few
            weeks to sway the priest.
            She wanted to buy a special frock for the Sunday Mass, just for this
            purpose :)
            Funny as Hell when the shop assistants found out why she wanted it!

            Didn't think of brandy! Slivovice may be a bit rough on his presumably
            delicate throat.

            Peter M.

            On 1 May 2012 12:36, helene cincebeaux <helenezx@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > These are good but try home-made slivovice or good brandy!
            >
            > helene
            >
            > --- On Mon, 4/30/12, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:
            >
            > > From: htcstech <htcstech@...>
            > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Domicella Maria Kesmarszky
            > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > > Date: Monday, April 30, 2012, 1:59 AM
            > > I've heard most recently, that the
            > > village records 'Anyakonyv' prior to
            > > 1895 were all collected and placed in the state and regional
            > > archives as
            > > they were in fact, the only civil registrations of the time.
            > > Churches were
            > > instructed by the secular authorities to record all
            > > baptisms/marriages and
            > > deaths according to a state rubric, even those of no
            > > religion. I'm not sure
            > > when this law started, but it meant that records were now
            > > owned by the
            > > state.
            > >
            > > Therefore only church records after 1895 are actually owned
            > > by the church.
            > >
            > > Now your mileage may vary, as I'm sure that some churches
            > > kept copies or
            > > were instructed to make copies, however there is one that I
            > > know of that
            > > has no record or copy and refers all questions relating to
            > > genealogy to the
            > > state archives. Post 1895 is a different story and soon, my
            > > people on the
            > > ground over there will soon find out if the very reluctant
            > > priest can be
            > > swayed to show what he's got.
            > > Slightly off topic, does any one have some ideas of how to
            > > sway a reluctant
            > > catholic priest?
            > > Some said a nice bottle of wine or maybe a significant
            > > donation?
            > >
            > > Peter M.
            > >
            > > On 30 April 2012 13:52, William C. Wormuth <senzus@...>
            > > wrote:
            > >
            > > > **
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > http://torysa.ocu.sk/sk/
            > > >
            > > > Can anyone imagine Parishes in Slovakia searching
            > > records for anyone??
            > > > Records were moved to specific area locations. I
            > > have no idea where for
            > > > this area but someone here might.
            > > >
            > > > Z Bohom,
            > > >
            > > > Vilo
            > > >
            > > > ________________________________
            > > > From: Jane Murray <jmurray6475@...>
            > > > To: "SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com"
            > > <SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com>
            > > > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 8:24 PM
            > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Domicella Maria Kesmarszky
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Janet,
            > > > I know she is not related. My question pertains
            > > to how would I find the
            > > > relationship between her and my ancestors? Could
            > > it possibly be an
            > > > employer/employee situation, or maybe just
            > > friends. You are correct, I
            > > > probably will never know. I am leaning towards the
            > > involvement with the
            > > > Church. I have not seen her name tied to other
            > > individuals in the records
            > > > I was searching, but to be quite honest, I zero my
            > > searching to my
            > > > ancestors last name and not the Godparents name, so
            > > they could be tied to
            > > > others.
            > > > I rechecked the word "Domicella" in my translation
            > > book; it can mean Lady,
            > > > servant, or nun. My family was very religious, my gg
            > > grandfather was a
            > > > Cantor/Musician, when I think of Cantors I think of
            > > Church; his son (my g
            > > > grandfather) was said to be studying for the priesthood
            > > before he fell in
            > > > love with my ggrandmother. I guess it is just
            > > wishful thinking on my part
            > > > that records would be kept at the Church or Town hall
            > > that would give some
            > > > indication of the history of Domicella Maria
            > > Kesmarszky, was she a nun, was
            > > > she a wealthy noble and where does my family fit into
            > > this?
            > > > I guess the show "Who do you think you are" gives a
            > > person the idea that
            > > > records are available you just need to keep digging to
            > > find them. My
            > > > mission in the fall will be to write to the Church in
            > > Torysa, I believe I
            > > > will find my answers there, if not I can at least say I
            > > tried. Jane
            > > >
            > > > ________________________________
            > > > From: Janet Kozlay <kozlay@...>
            > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > > > Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 9:35 PM
            > > > Subject: RE: [S-R] Domicella Maria Kesmarszky
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Jane, what makes you think that Maria Kesmarszky is
            > > related to your
            > > > ancestor? You indicate that she was listed only as
            > > godmother to the
            > > > children. Godparents were not ordinarily related to the
            > > family. Usually
            > > > they
            > > > were long-time friends of one of the parents. In the
            > > case of a noble acting
            > > > as godparent to a non-noble, there would most likely be
            > > a different reason.
            > > > I have seen instances where a noble acted as a
            > > godparent to several
            > > > families
            > > > in a village, perhaps because the duties of a godparent
            > > involved
            > > > considerable financial outlay and the noble was more
            > > able to absorb the
            > > > costs. I don't think it would be possible to find out
            > > today what other
            > > > reasons there might have been. You might want to check
            > > to see if she acted
            > > > as godmother to other families.
            > > >
            > > > Janet
            > > >
            > > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com]
            > > > On
            > > > Behalf Of Jane Murray
            > > > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 8:58 PM
            > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > > > Subject: [S-R] Domicella Maria Kesmarszky
            > > >
            > > > Okay... I started this. I probably spelled Domicella
            > > Maria "Kesmarszky"
            > > > incorrect listed on my Great,great, great Grandfather's
            > > and his siblings
            > > > birth records. As I originally stated I am not an
            > > expert on the fancy
            > > > penmanship written. I mistook a "J" for a "F". I have
            > > corrected my records
            > > > to "Kesmarszky" not Kesmanszky. If indeed she is the
            > > decendent of Georg
            > > > Kesmarszky who was ennobled in 1649 how does one find
            > > out what relationship
            > > > she would have to my ancestor Joannes Szabo? I will ask
            > > this again, is it
            > > > prudent for me to write to the local town government
            > > office in Torysa to
            > > > research records of Domicella Maria Kesmarszky &
            > > Joannes Szabo. I found the
            > > > following address online:
            > > >
            > > > Municipal Office Torysa
            > > > Torysa 28
            > > > 082 76 Torysa
            > > >
            > > > Is that enough of an address, seems incomplete? Based
            > > on your expert
            > > > knowledge of the government and history who do I
            > > address the correspondence
            > > > to? What will they need to do the research, should I
            > > include copies of the
            > > > baptismal records? Generally what is the fee for them
            > > to find newspaper
            > > > articles or civil records?
            > > >
            > > > I appreciate any comments or guidance. I did google
            > > "Georg Kesmarszky", one
            > > > suggestion was ancestry.com (I do not have a
            > > subscription) I will try
            > > > Family search.org.
            > > >
            > > > Jane
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL
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          • Jane Murray
            In my many years that I have been researching my family, the first place I always contacted was the Church.  I have come across some very helpful rectories
            Message 5 of 13 , May 1 7:39 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              In my many years that I have been researching my family, the first place I always contacted was the Church.  I have come across some very helpful rectories that are willing to let you look at records, and some very hostile priest that refuse any searching.  I have always in all cases made a donation to the Church for their assistance; besides money it could include lunch, flowers, and in one case "several" bottles of good red wine.  One priest at Polish St. Roche's RC Church in Johnstown Pa actually yelled at me for digging into confidential material that no one should have access to. I am going to send a letter to the churches in Slovakia where my ancestors lived, if they respond I will be grateful; if they do not, I close that book. Jane


              ________________________________
              From: John <johnqadam@...>
              To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 8:21 PM
              Subject: Re: [S-R] Domicella Maria Kesmarszky


               
              >>> Post 1895 is a different story and soon, my people on the ground over there will soon find out if the very reluctant priest can be swayed to show what he's got. <<<

              Post 1895, the records are in the local civic records office. Of course, the church may have tracked its parishioners as well.




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