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Re: 1720 census

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  • HFR100
    Dear Peter - Thank you for this trick in scrolling through the images on the 1720 pages . I have been slowly collaborating my church records findings with the
    Message 1 of 44 , Apr 12, 2012
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      Dear Peter - Thank you for this trick in scrolling through the images on the 1720 pages . I have been slowly collaborating my church records findings with the 1720 census for this time period .

      Also thanks for the explanation on "'land workers', 'cotter ' 'colonus' 'inquilinus'" in it and the Hungarian terms as well . In comparing with what the preachers/priests in church records wrote as status for some of my family members later (post - 1720 through 1810 ),I agree that" colonus worked on their ancestral plots without rent" . I have a mixture of all kinds of folks in my villages ( nemes & cotters) so it's interesting to see what different groups had to pay taxes.

      In one instance , I do see some known village nobility " heirs " paying taxes .It was translated to as "part of the settlement fund" - taxalisták.

      A NOTE TO ANYONE WORKING IN 1720 census online, some categories like POZSONY MEGYE (21.Teka )- when you click on the green cross , the list expands underneath , the JARAS is TITLED by the names of the tax collectors ! Not the names of the districts but keep looking and your village will be in the list . It helps to know what your village was called in 1720 too.

      Sometime you have to double click the green crosses to get it to open up and expand . That has been my only technical issue with the site and I am hardly fluent in Hungarian .

      I have been jumping back to the 1828 census for my villages to compare to 1720. We are all lucky that they are digitalizing these records and sharing them .

      Magda


      --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:
      >
      > nemes means noble
      > adozok means tax payers
      > I think extraneusok - people the tax officials found.
      > libertinusok - would include no-tax payers as they were servants, possibly
      > Roma (czigany).
      >
      > If you are into this, then I recommend to look at the actual images.
      > There is a trick with this, as the database only shows the first page!
      > If the list of people are relatively numerous, you can force the database
      > to show the next page(s) ut manually editing the URL.
      > To do this, go to the address bar, click at the end, AFTER the page number,
      > delete the last number and add 1.
      > So if the last number is 32, delete the 2 and add 3. Click refresh and the
      > next page (image) is shown!
      >
      > Let me know if this works for you as I'm doing this from memory.
      >
      > Peter M
      >
      > On 9 April 2012 23:52, HFR100 <hfr100@...> wrote:
      >
      > > **
      > >
      > >
      > > That 1720 database is marvelous and very interesting to compare the
      > > listings from the 1715 .
      > >
      > > In a hurry to figure out (because of the holiday week ) but what do these
      > > categories mean in terms of taxpayers?
      > >
      > > nemes extraneusok
      > >
      > > extraneusok
      > >
      > > libertinusok
      > >
      > > adózók
      > >
      > > Magda
      > >
      >
    • htcstech
      Sorry - part of those quotes were in white text... This should be ok now. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 44 of 44 , Apr 18, 2012
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        Sorry - part of those quotes were in white text... This should be ok now.

        On 19 April 2012 12:20, htcstech <htcstech@...> wrote:

        > A bit of clarification on Tax collection procedures.
        >
        > I found an on-line text: Hungary and Transylvania by John Paget (1850)
        > which looks like a faithful copy of the original I read a few months ago as
        > a pdf from a Hungarian source. As I can copy and paste from this, I'd like
        > to sahre what this educated English gentleman said about tax collection
        > circa 1835 - before the 1848 revolution.
        >
        > "There is still one part of the municipal system to be considered,�that
        > which refers to the local government of a village. Every Hungarian village
        > forms a Communitas in itself, and is governed by its own elected officers,
        > assesses and collects its own taxes, [551]<http://depts.washington.edu/cartah/text_archive/paget/pages/p1_551.jpg> GOVERNMENT
        > OF VILLAGES. and manages its own affairs, very much after its own fancy.
        > The Lord of the Manor, has, to a certain extent, the same power in the
        > village as the Monarch in the county."
        >
        > and
        >
        > "GENERAL TAXES. distribution of this, and the amount which comes to the
        > share of each village, the assessment on the individual peasants falls to
        > the Biro and his Jurassores (elected from the people and by the people of
        > the village - Peter M). The common manner of dividing it is so much per
        > head for every grown-up man ; and then so much on each article of
        > property,�as oxen, sheep, horses,�which he may possess. It is one of the
        > great advantages of an elected officer, that those who elect him are
        > commonly content with his manner of performing his duty; or, if they are
        > not, the remedy rests with themselves. I do not recollect in other parts of
        > Europe to have often seen the tax-gatherer and police-officers objects of
        > respect to their neighbours; while in Hungary I never heard of a Biro being
        > ill-regarded because he had performed his duty. It is a well-known fact,
        > that, when the peasant is perfectly unmanageable in the hands of the lord
        > or his steward, he is at once obedient to his own elected Biro."
        >
        > There were 2 taxes - a military tax and a domestic tax. Church tax was
        > food, wine and wood.
        >
        > It's not a long book, and contains descriptions of towns, landforms,
        > Slovaks and Jews of the time.
        > One interesting this that struck me was that many towns had a little
        > 'Cavalry Hill' where religious ceremonies were conducted!
        > A very interesting read.
        >
        > http://depts.washington.edu/cartah/text_archive/paget/toc_pag.shtml
        >
        > Peter M.
        >
        >


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