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Re: [S-R] _do_ Names was Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Gr...

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  • david1law@aol.com
    To Whom It May Concern: While it is true that the word herczeg means duke in Hungarian, it is not true that the duke was the highest noble rank in the
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 26, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      To Whom It May Concern:

      While it is true that the word "herczeg" means "duke" in Hungarian, it is
      not true that the duke was the highest noble rank in the kingdom of
      Hungary. Originally, the Palatine ("nador" in Hungarian) was the highest noble
      rank in the kingdom of Hungary, second only to the king. Here is two very
      good articles about the nobility in the kingdom of Hungary:

      _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobility_in_the_Kingdom_of_Hungary_
      (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobility_in_the_Kingdom_of_Hungary)

      _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_nobility_(Kingdom_of_Hungary)_
      (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_nobility_(Kingdom_of_Hungary))

      Both will provide a good illustration of the noble offices, etc. over time.

      While the other writer may have only been familiar with Esterhazy, Pálffy
      and Batthyany, there were certainly a number of dukes in the kingdom of
      Hungary from the time of King Stephen in 1000 A.D. to the abolishment of the
      nobility in 1919. The Latin word "dux" (from which the modern term "duke"
      originates) appears 1171 times in the ARCANUM database (which one can access
      through Bill Tarkulich's website at _www.iabsi.com_ (http://www.iabsi.com)
      ). And this does not take into account the other variants in spelling
      because of the use of declensions. One great resource for the early history is
      THE REALM OF ST. STEPHEN: A HISTORY OF MEDIEVAL HUNGARY, 895-1526, by PAL
      ENGEL, TAMAS PALOSFALVI, and ANDREW ANTON.

      I hope that this helps to clarify matters a little.

      Best regards,

      David


      In a message dated 3/26/2012 4:58:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
      lacoros@... writes:

      It is true that herczeg means Duke in hungarian. But herczeg was the
      highest
      noble rank and I am quite sure there were no Jedzuth dukes in Hungary. Also
      this hercegs were mostly immigrants from the Austrian part of empire
      (including Bohemia), Germany or Italy (Lobkovic, Windischgraetz,
      Odescalchi,
      ...) there are very few real hungarian dukes AFAIK only Esterhazy, Pálffy
      and Batthyany.

      On the other hand Herceg is a quite common surname in Slovakia:

      Priezvisko HERCEG sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 636×, celkový
      poèet
      lokalít: 166, najèastej¹ie výskyty v lokalitách:
      PATA, okr. GALANTA - 63×;
      TRNAVA, okr. TRNAVA - 32×;
      BUKOVÁ, okr. TRNAVA - 22×;
      PETR®ALKA (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA - 18×;
      MALÁ VIESKA (obec DRU®STEVNÁ PRI HORNÁDE), okr. KO©ICE-VIDIEK (od r. 1996
      KO©ICE - OKOLIE) - 15×;
      KOMJATICE, okr. NOVÉ ZÁMKY - 12×;
      PIE©«ANY, okr. TRNAVA (od r. 1996 PIE©«ANY) - 10×;
      RADAVA, okr. NOVÉ ZÁMKY - 10×;
      VE¥KÉ KOSTO¥ANY, okr. TRNAVA (od r. 1996 PIE©«ANY) - 10×;
      DÚBRAVKA (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA - 10×;

      Herczeg gives 91 results.

      Ladislav

      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-
      > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of htcstech
      > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:32 AM
      > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [S-R] _do_ Names was Uploaded file of Maria Grega father
      > Janos humenyk Grega
      >
      > Herczeg means Duke or Prince.
      > You don't say whether you are going forward or back in time, but
      > possibly Jedzuth became a Duke or a high rank in the Military
      > equivalent to a Duke.
      > If he was a Duke, then the records would show words like 'Illustrious'
      > and 'Magnificent' What time period are you researching?
      >
      > Peter M
      >
      >
      > On 26 March 2012 16:37, Elaine <epowell@...> wrote:
      >
      > > **
      > >
      > >
      > > Ron, thanks very much, this is very helpful. Just to clarify, in your
      > > family's example, is Pal/Paul a current family head, or is he from
      > > several generations ago?
      > >
      > > Several branches of my families in eastern Slovakia have _do_ names.
      > > Your relative's example makes the most sense. My challenge has been
      > > that in some cases, the church records seem to use the names
      > > interchangeably. In other words, using your example, one record has
      > it
      > > as Paul Vallo, and the next recorded Vallo Paul. (No wonder I was
      > > confused!)
      > >
      > > In another case, one of my lines had the name Herczeg (in various
      > > spellings), but once I got back to a certain time, the Herczeg name
      > > simply disappeared. Fortunately, I enjoy looking at all the names
      > (and
      > > spellings) on the page, so I noticed a very small addition on top of
      > > the record of a Jedzut (also spelled as Jedzuth) that said
      > "=Herczeg."
      > > All the records prior to that event contained only the Jedzut name.
      > > Can you think of reasons for this kind of change other than a _do_
      > name?
      > >
      > > Elaine
      > >
      > > PS I sent these messages from my phone, rather than my computer, and
      > I
      > > didn't get an option of a UTF8 view....Sorry to spread chaos!
      > >
      > > Sent from my iPhone
      > >
      > >
      > > On Mar 25, 2012, at 5:06 PM, "Ron" <amiak27@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > > Elaine,
      > > >
      > > > As a part of speech _do_ is a preposition, pronounced doe as in
      > > > female
      > > deer. For those of you need a grammar refresher as much as I do, a
      > > preposition modifies another word, in this case a name. _do_ governs
      > > the genitive (possessive) case. The genitive answers the questions:
      > of
      > > whom (koho), of what (Ä oho), from whom (od koho), and from what (od
      > Ä oho).
      > > >
      > > > In different uses it can carry the meaning:
      > > > in, into, by, to the, till, until.
      > > > From another grammar:
      > > >
      > > > do = preposition, answer Ä oho, to, for toward, by, within, eg,
      > > > zaľúbený do = in love with
      > > >
      > > > With that basis I think of the use of _do_ forming aliases as Jones
      > > > do Smith; Jones associated with Smith; Jones by/at Smith;
      > > >
      > > > In my own case of alias, I was told that if we encounter too many
      > > > Vallo,
      > > we are of the Paul Vallo (Pal in Hungarian). I still have to discover
      > > that distinction.
      > > >
      > > > For anyone having trouble reading the Slovak accents, switch your
      > > > view
      > > of character encoding to UTF8.
      > > >
      > > > Ron
      > > >
      > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com, Elaine <epowell@...> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Thanks for these details, Michael, that's helpful.
      > > > >
      > > > > Elaine
      > > > >
      > > > > Sent from my iPhone
      > > > >
      > > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:40 PM, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@...>
      > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > > Elaine,
      > > > > > I may be corrected, but I seem to remember it as being â?oedoeâ?
      > > > > > , it
      > > is the Slovak word for â?oeofâ? . The Latin had the word â?oealiasâ? ,
      > > so it is not surprising that it would have been used in the church
      > > records recorded in Latin.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > The surname and â?oedoâ? names were so interchangeable no one
      > > > > > when
      > > using the â?oedoâ? name would have considered it being different. It
      > > was a substituted aide to make sure that the correct information when
      > > to the proper person. I especially saw this in land records where it
      > > would be a â?oebig dealâ? that you knew who the proper person was.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > In my village if you say the use of the â?oedoâ? then you
      > > > > > understood
      > > there was another person living there that had the same exact name.
      > > The â?oedoâ? was not used indiscriminately, but with a purpose.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > From: Elaine
      > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:27 AM
      > > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos
      > > > > > humenyk
      > > Grega
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Michael,
      > > > > >
      > > > > > The situation with family names that you refer to as "do"
      > occurs
      > > > > > in
      > > several of my families also. Is the term "do" a Slovak word, and if
      > > so, how is it pronounced, "doe" or "doo"? In the church records I
      > have
      > > reviewed, this kind of family name has been marked as "alias," at
      > > least in records done in Latin.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Also, in some of my families, it is hard to tell which of the
      > > > > > two
      > > names is the actual family name. In other words, I've seen records
      > > that put the actual name first and then the alias, but other records
      > > for the person have the names reversed.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Elaine
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
      > > > > >
      > > > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:02 AM, "Michael Mojher" <mailto:
      > > mgmojher%40verizon.net> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > > Tom,
      > > >
      > > > > > > As for the â?oe(humenyk)â? , since there seems to be a large
      > > > > > > number
      > > of Grega you may have a case of a â?oedoâ? name as I call it. I found
      > > in my village that my family has three â?oedoâ? names. Each â?oedoâ?
      > > name is given to a branch of the family. What the â?oedoâ? name is
      > used
      > > to tell two people apart that share the exact same given and
      > surnames.
      > > So instead of using the usual surname the â?oedoâ? name for that
      > person
      > > would be used. Then there would be no mix up. I found the â?oedoâ?
      > name
      > > used in all sort of records. I found that the â?oedoâ? name was
      > totally
      > > an oral tradition. So you would have to ask a relative if it was ever
      > used.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > From: Tom
      > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:56 PM
      > > > > > > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
      > > > > > > Subject: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos
      > > > > > > humenyk
      > > Grega
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > In researching a family named Humenik, and later called
      > > > > > > Minnick, I
      > > found a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family
      > > name was Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of Humenne for
      > > the last name and they took Humenik as their name. The marriage
      > record
      > > for his grandmother indicated date of birth as 27July1894 in
      > > Hankovce(Hankoc on Hungarian records). Looked on FamilySearch.org,
      > and
      > > found a 01Aug1894 record for Maria Grega father Janos(humenyk) Grega.
      > > Does anyone see a meaning for the not capitalized humenyk on the
      > > baptismal record? Thanks, Tom
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
      >
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      >
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      >
      >
      >



      ------------------------------------

      PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.

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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ladislav Rosival
      It was not my intention to write a complet article about the nobility in Hungary. I wanted just express, that it is very unprobable that the entry mentioned in
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 26, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        It was not my intention to write a complet article about the nobility in
        Hungary. I wanted just express, that it is very unprobable that the entry
        mentioned in the first post is saying something about a duke. And it was
        clear that we spoke about churchbook entries - it means the period 17th-19th
        century.



        The Palatine (nandor) was not a noble title – it was a function something
        like a prime minister.



        In Hungary there was realy only a few dukes, Hungary was one kingdom and
        there were no duchies in it. A specific teritory is Transylvania – the
        rulers of it had the title vajda later fejedelem this titles are also
        translated as Dux. In years 1526 - 1711 it was a (quasi) independant
        principality – but the dukes were elected it was not a hereditary title.

        To be complete in the period between 1048 and 1163 there was the
        Principality of Nitra (also Tercia pars regni) with some dukes from the
        Árpád Dynasty.



        The Holy roman empire (of german nation) was splitted into more small
        duchies, kingdoms etc. So there were a lot of dukes (Herzog, Fürst) there.



        The Arcanum database cover about 900 years of history so 1171 occurencies
        are about 1.2 in a year.



        Ladislav





        From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of david1law@...
        Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:37 PM
        To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [S-R] _do_ Names was Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos
        humenyk Gr...





        To Whom It May Concern:

        While it is true that the word "herczeg" means "duke" in Hungarian, it is
        not true that the duke was the highest noble rank in the kingdom of
        Hungary. Originally, the Palatine ("nador" in Hungarian) was the highest
        noble
        rank in the kingdom of Hungary, second only to the king. Here is two very
        good articles about the nobility in the kingdom of Hungary:

        _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobility_in_the_Kingdom_of_Hungary_
        (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobility_in_the_Kingdom_of_Hungary)

        _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_nobility_(Kingdom_of_Hungary)_
        (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_nobility_(Kingdom_of_Hungary))

        Both will provide a good illustration of the noble offices, etc. over time.

        While the other writer may have only been familiar with Esterhazy, Pálffy
        and Batthyany, there were certainly a number of dukes in the kingdom of
        Hungary from the time of King Stephen in 1000 A.D. to the abolishment of the

        nobility in 1919. The Latin word "dux" (from which the modern term "duke"
        originates) appears 1171 times in the ARCANUM database (which one can access

        through Bill Tarkulich's website at _www.iabsi.com_ (http://www.iabsi.com)
        ). And this does not take into account the other variants in spelling
        because of the use of declensions. One great resource for the early history
        is
        THE REALM OF ST. STEPHEN: A HISTORY OF MEDIEVAL HUNGARY, 895-1526, by PAL
        ENGEL, TAMAS PALOSFALVI, and ANDREW ANTON.

        I hope that this helps to clarify matters a little.

        Best regards,

        David


        In a message dated 3/26/2012 4:58:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
        lacoros@... <mailto:lacoros%40gmail.com> writes:

        It is true that herczeg means Duke in hungarian. But herczeg was the
        highest
        noble rank and I am quite sure there were no Jedzuth dukes in Hungary. Also
        this hercegs were mostly immigrants from the Austrian part of empire
        (including Bohemia), Germany or Italy (Lobkovic, Windischgraetz,
        Odescalchi,
        ...) there are very few real hungarian dukes AFAIK only Esterhazy, Pálffy
        and Batthyany.

        On the other hand Herceg is a quite common surname in Slovakia:

        Priezvisko HERCEG sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 636×, celkový
        poèet
        lokalít: 166, najèastej¹ie výskyty v lokalitách:
        PATA, okr. GALANTA - 63×;
        TRNAVA, okr. TRNAVA - 32×;
        BUKOVÁ, okr. TRNAVA - 22×;
        PETR®ALKA (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA - 18×;
        MALÁ VIESKA (obec DRU®STEVNÁ PRI HORNÁDE), okr. KO©ICE-VIDIEK (od r. 1996
        KO©ICE - OKOLIE) - 15×;
        KOMJATICE, okr. NOVÉ ZÁMKY - 12×;
        PIE©«ANY, okr. TRNAVA (od r. 1996 PIE©«ANY) - 10×;
        RADAVA, okr. NOVÉ ZÁMKY - 10×;
        VE¥KÉ KOSTO¥ANY, okr. TRNAVA (od r. 1996 PIE©«ANY) - 10×;
        DÚBRAVKA (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA - 10×;

        Herczeg gives 91 results.

        Ladislav

        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
        [mailto:SLOVAK-
        > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
        htcstech
        > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:32 AM
        > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
        > Subject: Re: [S-R] _do_ Names was Uploaded file of Maria Grega father
        > Janos humenyk Grega
        >
        > Herczeg means Duke or Prince.
        > You don't say whether you are going forward or back in time, but
        > possibly Jedzuth became a Duke or a high rank in the Military
        > equivalent to a Duke.
        > If he was a Duke, then the records would show words like 'Illustrious'
        > and 'Magnificent' What time period are you researching?
        >
        > Peter M
        >
        >
        > On 26 March 2012 16:37, Elaine <epowell@...
        <mailto:epowell%40earthlink.net> > wrote:
        >
        > > **
        > >
        > >
        > > Ron, thanks very much, this is very helpful. Just to clarify, in your
        > > family's example, is Pal/Paul a current family head, or is he from
        > > several generations ago?
        > >
        > > Several branches of my families in eastern Slovakia have _do_ names.
        > > Your relative's example makes the most sense. My challenge has been
        > > that in some cases, the church records seem to use the names
        > > interchangeably. In other words, using your example, one record has
        > it
        > > as Paul Vallo, and the next recorded Vallo Paul. (No wonder I was
        > > confused!)
        > >
        > > In another case, one of my lines had the name Herczeg (in various
        > > spellings), but once I got back to a certain time, the Herczeg name
        > > simply disappeared. Fortunately, I enjoy looking at all the names
        > (and
        > > spellings) on the page, so I noticed a very small addition on top of
        > > the record of a Jedzut (also spelled as Jedzuth) that said
        > "=Herczeg."
        > > All the records prior to that event contained only the Jedzut name.
        > > Can you think of reasons for this kind of change other than a _do_
        > name?
        > >
        > > Elaine
        > >
        > > PS I sent these messages from my phone, rather than my computer, and
        > I
        > > didn't get an option of a UTF8 view....Sorry to spread chaos!
        > >
        > > Sent from my iPhone
        > >
        > >
        > > On Mar 25, 2012, at 5:06 PM, "Ron" <amiak27@...
        <mailto:amiak27%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
        > >
        > > > Elaine,
        > > >
        > > > As a part of speech _do_ is a preposition, pronounced doe as in
        > > > female
        > > deer. For those of you need a grammar refresher as much as I do, a
        > > preposition modifies another word, in this case a name. _do_ governs
        > > the genitive (possessive) case. The genitive answers the questions:
        > of
        > > whom (koho), of what (Ä oho), from whom (od koho), and from what (od
        > Ä oho).
        > > >
        > > > In different uses it can carry the meaning:
        > > > in, into, by, to the, till, until.
        > > > From another grammar:
        > > >
        > > > do = preposition, answer Ä oho, to, for toward, by, within, eg,
        > > > zaľúbený do = in love with
        > > >
        > > > With that basis I think of the use of _do_ forming aliases as Jones
        > > > do Smith; Jones associated with Smith; Jones by/at Smith;
        > > >
        > > > In my own case of alias, I was told that if we encounter too many
        > > > Vallo,
        > > we are of the Paul Vallo (Pal in Hungarian). I still have to discover
        > > that distinction.
        > > >
        > > > For anyone having trouble reading the Slovak accents, switch your
        > > > view
        > > of character encoding to UTF8.
        > > >
        > > > Ron
        > > >
        > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> , Elaine <epowell@...> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Thanks for these details, Michael, that's helpful.
        > > > >
        > > > > Elaine
        > > > >
        > > > > Sent from my iPhone
        > > > >
        > > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:40 PM, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@...>
        > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > > Elaine,
        > > > > > I may be corrected, but I seem to remember it as being â?oedoeâ?
        > > > > > , it
        > > is the Slovak word for â?oeofâ? . The Latin had the word â?oealiasâ? ,
        > > so it is not surprising that it would have been used in the church
        > > records recorded in Latin.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > The surname and â?oedoâ? names were so interchangeable no one
        > > > > > when
        > > using the â?oedoâ? name would have considered it being different. It
        > > was a substituted aide to make sure that the correct information when
        > > to the proper person. I especially saw this in land records where it
        > > would be a â?oebig dealâ? that you knew who the proper person was.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > In my village if you say the use of the â?oedoâ? then you
        > > > > > understood
        > > there was another person living there that had the same exact name.
        > > The â?oedoâ? was not used indiscriminately, but with a purpose.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > From: Elaine
        > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:27 AM
        > > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos
        > > > > > humenyk
        > > Grega
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Michael,
        > > > > >
        > > > > > The situation with family names that you refer to as "do"
        > occurs
        > > > > > in
        > > several of my families also. Is the term "do" a Slovak word, and if
        > > so, how is it pronounced, "doe" or "doo"? In the church records I
        > have
        > > reviewed, this kind of family name has been marked as "alias," at
        > > least in records done in Latin.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Also, in some of my families, it is hard to tell which of the
        > > > > > two
        > > names is the actual family name. In other words, I've seen records
        > > that put the actual name first and then the alias, but other records
        > > for the person have the names reversed.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Elaine
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
        > > > > >
        > > > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:02 AM, "Michael Mojher" <mailto:
        <mailto:%0b>
        > > mgmojher%40verizon.net> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > Tom,
        > > >
        > > > > > > As for the â?oe(humenyk)â? , since there seems to be a large
        > > > > > > number
        > > of Grega you may have a case of a â?oedoâ? name as I call it. I found
        > > in my village that my family has three â?oedoâ? names. Each â?oedoâ?
        > > name is given to a branch of the family. What the â?oedoâ? name is
        > used
        > > to tell two people apart that share the exact same given and
        > surnames.
        > > So instead of using the usual surname the â?oedoâ? name for that
        > person
        > > would be used. Then there would be no mix up. I found the â?oedoâ?
        > name
        > > used in all sort of records. I found that the â?oedoâ? name was
        > totally
        > > an oral tradition. So you would have to ask a relative if it was ever
        > used.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > From: Tom
        > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:56 PM
        > > > > > > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
        > > > > > > Subject: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos
        > > > > > > humenyk
        > > Grega
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > In researching a family named Humenik, and later called
        > > > > > > Minnick, I
        > > found a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family
        > > name was Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of Humenne for
        > > the last name and they took Humenik as their name. The marriage
        > record
        > > for his grandmother indicated date of birth as 27July1894 in
        > > Hankovce(Hankoc on Hungarian records). Looked on FamilySearch.org,
        > and
        > > found a 01Aug1894 record for Maria Grega father Janos(humenyk) Grega.
        > > Does anyone see a meaning for the not capitalized humenyk on the
        > > baptismal record? Thanks, Tom
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
        >
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        > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
        > to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo
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        >
        >
        >

        ------------------------------------

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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • tom geiss
        My grandmother s brother in Brezovica Nad Torysou was listed on his wedding document as VEREJNY NOTAR which means NOTARY PUBLIC .- - I learned somewhere
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 26, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          My grandmother's brother in Brezovica Nad Torysou was listed on his wedding document as "VEREJNY NOTAR" which means "NOTARY PUBLIC".- - I learned somewhere that, in those days a public notary was more important than the mayor?
          Tom
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Ladislav Rosival
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:29 PM
          Subject: RE: [S-R] _do_ Names was Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos humenyk Gr...



          It was not my intention to write a complet article about the nobility in
          Hungary. I wanted just express, that it is very unprobable that the entry
          mentioned in the first post is saying something about a duke. And it was
          clear that we spoke about churchbook entries - it means the period 17th-19th
          century.

          The Palatine (nandor) was not a noble title - it was a function something
          like a prime minister.

          In Hungary there was realy only a few dukes, Hungary was one kingdom and
          there were no duchies in it. A specific teritory is Transylvania - the
          rulers of it had the title vajda later fejedelem this titles are also
          translated as Dux. In years 1526 - 1711 it was a (quasi) independant
          principality - but the dukes were elected it was not a hereditary title.

          To be complete in the period between 1048 and 1163 there was the
          Principality of Nitra (also Tercia pars regni) with some dukes from the
          Árpád Dynasty.

          The Holy roman empire (of german nation) was splitted into more small
          duchies, kingdoms etc. So there were a lot of dukes (Herzog, Fürst) there.

          The Arcanum database cover about 900 years of history so 1171 occurencies
          are about 1.2 in a year.

          Ladislav

          From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of david1law@...
          Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:37 PM
          To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [S-R] _do_ Names was Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos
          humenyk Gr...

          To Whom It May Concern:

          While it is true that the word "herczeg" means "duke" in Hungarian, it is
          not true that the duke was the highest noble rank in the kingdom of
          Hungary. Originally, the Palatine ("nador" in Hungarian) was the highest
          noble
          rank in the kingdom of Hungary, second only to the king. Here is two very
          good articles about the nobility in the kingdom of Hungary:

          _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobility_in_the_Kingdom_of_Hungary_
          (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobility_in_the_Kingdom_of_Hungary)

          _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_nobility_(Kingdom_of_Hungary)_
          (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_nobility_(Kingdom_of_Hungary))

          Both will provide a good illustration of the noble offices, etc. over time.

          While the other writer may have only been familiar with Esterhazy, Pálffy
          and Batthyany, there were certainly a number of dukes in the kingdom of
          Hungary from the time of King Stephen in 1000 A.D. to the abolishment of the

          nobility in 1919. The Latin word "dux" (from which the modern term "duke"
          originates) appears 1171 times in the ARCANUM database (which one can access

          through Bill Tarkulich's website at _www.iabsi.com_ (http://www.iabsi.com)
          ). And this does not take into account the other variants in spelling
          because of the use of declensions. One great resource for the early history
          is
          THE REALM OF ST. STEPHEN: A HISTORY OF MEDIEVAL HUNGARY, 895-1526, by PAL
          ENGEL, TAMAS PALOSFALVI, and ANDREW ANTON.

          I hope that this helps to clarify matters a little.

          Best regards,

          David

          In a message dated 3/26/2012 4:58:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
          lacoros@... <mailto:lacoros%40gmail.com> writes:

          It is true that herczeg means Duke in hungarian. But herczeg was the
          highest
          noble rank and I am quite sure there were no Jedzuth dukes in Hungary. Also
          this hercegs were mostly immigrants from the Austrian part of empire
          (including Bohemia), Germany or Italy (Lobkovic, Windischgraetz,
          Odescalchi,
          ...) there are very few real hungarian dukes AFAIK only Esterhazy, Pálffy
          and Batthyany.

          On the other hand Herceg is a quite common surname in Slovakia:

          Priezvisko HERCEG sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 636×, celkový
          poèet
          lokalít: 166, najèastej¹ie výskyty v lokalitách:
          PATA, okr. GALANTA - 63×;
          TRNAVA, okr. TRNAVA - 32×;
          BUKOVÁ, okr. TRNAVA - 22×;
          PETR®ALKA (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA - 18×;
          MALÁ VIESKA (obec DRU®STEVNÁ PRI HORNÁDE), okr. KO©ICE-VIDIEK (od r. 1996
          KO©ICE - OKOLIE) - 15×;
          KOMJATICE, okr. NOVÉ ZÁMKY - 12×;
          PIE©«ANY, okr. TRNAVA (od r. 1996 PIE©«ANY) - 10×;
          RADAVA, okr. NOVÉ ZÁMKY - 10×;
          VE¥KÉ KOSTO¥ANY, okr. TRNAVA (od r. 1996 PIE©«ANY) - 10×;
          DÚBRAVKA (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA - 10×;

          Herczeg gives 91 results.

          Ladislav

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          [mailto:SLOVAK-
          > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
          htcstech
          > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:32 AM
          > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Subject: Re: [S-R] _do_ Names was Uploaded file of Maria Grega father
          > Janos humenyk Grega
          >
          > Herczeg means Duke or Prince.
          > You don't say whether you are going forward or back in time, but
          > possibly Jedzuth became a Duke or a high rank in the Military
          > equivalent to a Duke.
          > If he was a Duke, then the records would show words like 'Illustrious'
          > and 'Magnificent' What time period are you researching?
          >
          > Peter M
          >
          >
          > On 26 March 2012 16:37, Elaine <epowell@...
          <mailto:epowell%40earthlink.net> > wrote:
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > Ron, thanks very much, this is very helpful. Just to clarify, in your
          > > family's example, is Pal/Paul a current family head, or is he from
          > > several generations ago?
          > >
          > > Several branches of my families in eastern Slovakia have _do_ names.
          > > Your relative's example makes the most sense. My challenge has been
          > > that in some cases, the church records seem to use the names
          > > interchangeably. In other words, using your example, one record has
          > it
          > > as Paul Vallo, and the next recorded Vallo Paul. (No wonder I was
          > > confused!)
          > >
          > > In another case, one of my lines had the name Herczeg (in various
          > > spellings), but once I got back to a certain time, the Herczeg name
          > > simply disappeared. Fortunately, I enjoy looking at all the names
          > (and
          > > spellings) on the page, so I noticed a very small addition on top of
          > > the record of a Jedzut (also spelled as Jedzuth) that said
          > "=Herczeg."
          > > All the records prior to that event contained only the Jedzut name.
          > > Can you think of reasons for this kind of change other than a _do_
          > name?
          > >
          > > Elaine
          > >
          > > PS I sent these messages from my phone, rather than my computer, and
          > I
          > > didn't get an option of a UTF8 view....Sorry to spread chaos!
          > >
          > > Sent from my iPhone
          > >
          > >
          > > On Mar 25, 2012, at 5:06 PM, "Ron" <amiak27@...
          <mailto:amiak27%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
          > >
          > > > Elaine,
          > > >
          > > > As a part of speech _do_ is a preposition, pronounced doe as in
          > > > female
          > > deer. For those of you need a grammar refresher as much as I do, a
          > > preposition modifies another word, in this case a name. _do_ governs
          > > the genitive (possessive) case. The genitive answers the questions:
          > of
          > > whom (koho), of what (Ä oho), from whom (od koho), and from what (od
          > Ä oho).
          > > >
          > > > In different uses it can carry the meaning:
          > > > in, into, by, to the, till, until.
          > > > From another grammar:
          > > >
          > > > do = preposition, answer Ä oho, to, for toward, by, within, eg,
          > > > zaľúbený do = in love with
          > > >
          > > > With that basis I think of the use of _do_ forming aliases as Jones
          > > > do Smith; Jones associated with Smith; Jones by/at Smith;
          > > >
          > > > In my own case of alias, I was told that if we encounter too many
          > > > Vallo,
          > > we are of the Paul Vallo (Pal in Hungarian). I still have to discover
          > > that distinction.
          > > >
          > > > For anyone having trouble reading the Slovak accents, switch your
          > > > view
          > > of character encoding to UTF8.
          > > >
          > > > Ron
          > > >
          > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> , Elaine <epowell@...> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Thanks for these details, Michael, that's helpful.
          > > > >
          > > > > Elaine
          > > > >
          > > > > Sent from my iPhone
          > > > >
          > > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:40 PM, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@...>
          > wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > > Elaine,
          > > > > > I may be corrected, but I seem to remember it as being â?oedoeâ?
          > > > > > , it
          > > is the Slovak word for â?oeofâ? . The Latin had the word â?oealiasâ? ,
          > > so it is not surprising that it would have been used in the church
          > > records recorded in Latin.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > The surname and â?oedoâ? names were so interchangeable no one
          > > > > > when
          > > using the â?oedoâ? name would have considered it being different. It
          > > was a substituted aide to make sure that the correct information when
          > > to the proper person. I especially saw this in land records where it
          > > would be a â?oebig dealâ? that you knew who the proper person was.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > In my village if you say the use of the â?oedoâ? then you
          > > > > > understood
          > > there was another person living there that had the same exact name.
          > > The â?oedoâ? was not used indiscriminately, but with a purpose.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > From: Elaine
          > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:27 AM
          > > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
          <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
          > > > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos
          > > > > > humenyk
          > > Grega
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Michael,
          > > > > >
          > > > > > The situation with family names that you refer to as "do"
          > occurs
          > > > > > in
          > > several of my families also. Is the term "do" a Slovak word, and if
          > > so, how is it pronounced, "doe" or "doo"? In the church records I
          > have
          > > reviewed, this kind of family name has been marked as "alias," at
          > > least in records done in Latin.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Also, in some of my families, it is hard to tell which of the
          > > > > > two
          > > names is the actual family name. In other words, I've seen records
          > > that put the actual name first and then the alias, but other records
          > > for the person have the names reversed.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Elaine
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
          > > > > >
          > > > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:02 AM, "Michael Mojher" <mailto:
          <mailto:%0b>
          > > mgmojher%40verizon.net> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > > Tom,
          > > >
          > > > > > > As for the â?oe(humenyk)â? , since there seems to be a large
          > > > > > > number
          > > of Grega you may have a case of a â?oedoâ? name as I call it. I found
          > > in my village that my family has three â?oedoâ? names. Each â?oedoâ?
          > > name is given to a branch of the family. What the â?oedoâ? name is
          > used
          > > to tell two people apart that share the exact same given and
          > surnames.
          > > So instead of using the usual surname the â?oedoâ? name for that
          > person
          > > would be used. Then there would be no mix up. I found the â?oedoâ?
          > name
          > > used in all sort of records. I found that the â?oedoâ? name was
          > totally
          > > an oral tradition. So you would have to ask a relative if it was ever
          > used.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > From: Tom
          > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:56 PM
          > > > > > > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
          > > > > > > Subject: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos
          > > > > > > humenyk
          > > Grega
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > In researching a family named Humenik, and later called
          > > > > > > Minnick, I
          > > found a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family
          > > name was Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of Humenne for
          > > the last name and they took Humenik as their name. The marriage
          > record
          > > for his grandmother indicated date of birth as 27July1894 in
          > > Hankovce(Hankoc on Hungarian records). Looked on FamilySearch.org,
          > and
          > > found a 01Aug1894 record for Maria Grega father Janos(humenyk) Grega.
          > > Does anyone see a meaning for the not capitalized humenyk on the
          > > baptismal record? Thanks, Tom
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.
          >
          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS/
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, go to
          > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/SLOVAK-ROOTS -or- send blank email
          > to SLOVAK-ROOTS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo
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          >
          >
          >

          ------------------------------------

          PLEASE STAY ON-TOPIC (GENEALOGY). OFF-TOPIC ITEMS WILL BE BLOCKED.

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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • William
          ... Tom, I visited Brezovica nad Torysu in December, 2010, along with my 93 year old sister-in-law. She had been born there in 1917, came to this country at
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 26, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            On 3/26/2012 6:49 PM, tom geiss wrote:
            >
            > My grandmother's brother in Brezovica Nad Torysou was listed on his
            > wedding document as "VEREJNY NOTAR" which means "NOTARY PUBLIC".- - I
            > learned somewhere that, in those days a public notary was more
            > important than the mayor?
            > Tom
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Ladislav Rosival
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:29 PM
            > Subject: RE: [S-R] _do_ Names was Uploaded file of Maria Grega father
            > Janos humenyk Gr...
            >
            > It was not my intention to write a complet article about the nobility in
            > Hungary. I wanted just express, that it is very unprobable that the entry
            > mentioned in the first post is saying something about a duke. And it was
            > clear that we spoke about churchbook entries - it means the period
            > 17th-19th
            > century.
            >
            > The Palatine (nandor) was not a noble title - it was a function something
            > like a prime minister.
            >
            > In Hungary there was realy only a few dukes, Hungary was one kingdom and
            > there were no duchies in it. A specific teritory is Transylvania - the
            > rulers of it had the title vajda later fejedelem this titles are also
            > translated as Dux. In years 1526 - 1711 it was a (quasi) independant
            > principality - but the dukes were elected it was not a hereditary title.
            >
            > To be complete in the period between 1048 and 1163 there was the
            > Principality of Nitra (also Tercia pars regni) with some dukes from the
            > Árpád Dynasty.
            >
            > The Holy roman empire (of german nation) was splitted into more small
            > duchies, kingdoms etc. So there were a lot of dukes (Herzog, Fürst) there.
            >
            > The Arcanum database cover about 900 years of history so 1171 occurencies
            > are about 1.2 in a year.
            >
            > Ladislav
            >
            > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
            > [mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>] On
            > Behalf Of david1law@... <mailto:david1law%40aol.com>
            > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 5:37 PM
            > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
            > Subject: Re: [S-R] _do_ Names was Uploaded file of Maria Grega father
            > Janos
            > humenyk Gr...
            >
            > To Whom It May Concern:
            >
            > While it is true that the word "herczeg" means "duke" in Hungarian, it is
            > not true that the duke was the highest noble rank in the kingdom of
            > Hungary. Originally, the Palatine ("nador" in Hungarian) was the highest
            > noble
            > rank in the kingdom of Hungary, second only to the king. Here is two very
            > good articles about the nobility in the kingdom of Hungary:
            >
            > _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobility_in_the_Kingdom_of_Hungary_
            > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobility_in_the_Kingdom_of_Hungary)
            >
            > _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_nobility_(Kingdom_of_Hungary)_
            > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_nobility_(Kingdom_of_Hungary))
            >
            > Both will provide a good illustration of the noble offices, etc. over
            > time.
            >
            > While the other writer may have only been familiar with Esterhazy, Pálffy
            > and Batthyany, there were certainly a number of dukes in the kingdom of
            > Hungary from the time of King Stephen in 1000 A.D. to the abolishment
            > of the
            >
            > nobility in 1919. The Latin word "dux" (from which the modern term "duke"
            > originates) appears 1171 times in the ARCANUM database (which one can
            > access
            >
            > through Bill Tarkulich's website at _www.iabsi.com_
            > (http://www.iabsi.com)
            > ). And this does not take into account the other variants in spelling
            > because of the use of declensions. One great resource for the early
            > history
            > is
            > THE REALM OF ST. STEPHEN: A HISTORY OF MEDIEVAL HUNGARY, 895-1526, by PAL
            > ENGEL, TAMAS PALOSFALVI, and ANDREW ANTON.
            >
            > I hope that this helps to clarify matters a little.
            >
            > Best regards,
            >
            > David
            >
            > In a message dated 3/26/2012 4:58:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
            > lacoros@... <mailto:lacoros%40gmail.com>
            > <mailto:lacoros%40gmail.com> writes:
            >
            > It is true that herczeg means Duke in hungarian. But herczeg was the
            > highest
            > noble rank and I am quite sure there were no Jedzuth dukes in Hungary.
            > Also
            > this hercegs were mostly immigrants from the Austrian part of empire
            > (including Bohemia), Germany or Italy (Lobkovic, Windischgraetz,
            > Odescalchi,
            > ...) there are very few real hungarian dukes AFAIK only Esterhazy, Pálffy
            > and Batthyany.
            >
            > On the other hand Herceg is a quite common surname in Slovakia:
            >
            > Priezvisko HERCEG sa na Slovensku v roku 1995 nachádzalo 636×, celkový
            > poèet
            > lokalít: 166, najèastej¹ie výskyty v lokalitách:
            > PATA, okr. GALANTA - 63×;
            > TRNAVA, okr. TRNAVA - 32×;
            > BUKOVÁ, okr. TRNAVA - 22×;
            > PETR®ALKA (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA - 18×;
            > MALÁ VIESKA (obec DRU®STEVNÁ PRI HORNÁDE), okr. KO©ICE-VIDIEK (od r. 1996
            > KO©ICE - OKOLIE) - 15×;
            > KOMJATICE, okr. NOVÉ ZÁMKY - 12×;
            > PIE©«ANY, okr. TRNAVA (od r. 1996 PIE©«ANY) - 10×;
            > RADAVA, okr. NOVÉ ZÁMKY - 10×;
            > VE¥KÉ KOSTO¥ANY, okr. TRNAVA (od r. 1996 PIE©«ANY) - 10×;
            > DÚBRAVKA (obec BRATISLAVA), okr. BRATISLAVA - 10×;
            >
            > Herczeg gives 91 results.
            >
            > Ladislav
            >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
            > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
            > [mailto:SLOVAK-
            > > ROOTS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
            > <mailto:ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
            > htcstech
            > > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:32 AM
            > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
            > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
            > > Subject: Re: [S-R] _do_ Names was Uploaded file of Maria Grega father
            > > Janos humenyk Grega
            > >
            > > Herczeg means Duke or Prince.
            > > You don't say whether you are going forward or back in time, but
            > > possibly Jedzuth became a Duke or a high rank in the Military
            > > equivalent to a Duke.
            > > If he was a Duke, then the records would show words like 'Illustrious'
            > > and 'Magnificent' What time period are you researching?
            > >
            > > Peter M
            > >
            > >
            > > On 26 March 2012 16:37, Elaine <epowell@...
            > <mailto:epowell%40earthlink.net>
            > <mailto:epowell%40earthlink.net> > wrote:
            > >
            > > > **
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Ron, thanks very much, this is very helpful. Just to clarify, in your
            > > > family's example, is Pal/Paul a current family head, or is he from
            > > > several generations ago?
            > > >
            > > > Several branches of my families in eastern Slovakia have _do_ names.
            > > > Your relative's example makes the most sense. My challenge has been
            > > > that in some cases, the church records seem to use the names
            > > > interchangeably. In other words, using your example, one record has
            > > it
            > > > as Paul Vallo, and the next recorded Vallo Paul. (No wonder I was
            > > > confused!)
            > > >
            > > > In another case, one of my lines had the name Herczeg (in various
            > > > spellings), but once I got back to a certain time, the Herczeg name
            > > > simply disappeared. Fortunately, I enjoy looking at all the names
            > > (and
            > > > spellings) on the page, so I noticed a very small addition on top of
            > > > the record of a Jedzut (also spelled as Jedzuth) that said
            > > "=Herczeg."
            > > > All the records prior to that event contained only the Jedzut name.
            > > > Can you think of reasons for this kind of change other than a _do_
            > > name?
            > > >
            > > > Elaine
            > > >
            > > > PS I sent these messages from my phone, rather than my computer, and
            > > I
            > > > didn't get an option of a UTF8 view....Sorry to spread chaos!
            > > >
            > > > Sent from my iPhone
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > On Mar 25, 2012, at 5:06 PM, "Ron" <amiak27@...
            > <mailto:amiak27%40yahoo.com>
            > <mailto:amiak27%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > Elaine,
            > > > >
            > > > > As a part of speech _do_ is a preposition, pronounced doe as in
            > > > > female
            > > > deer. For those of you need a grammar refresher as much as I do, a
            > > > preposition modifies another word, in this case a name. _do_ governs
            > > > the genitive (possessive) case. The genitive answers the questions:
            > > of
            > > > whom (koho), of what (Ä oho), from whom (od koho), and from what (od
            > > Ä oho).
            > > > >
            > > > > In different uses it can carry the meaning:
            > > > > in, into, by, to the, till, until.
            > > > > From another grammar:
            > > > >
            > > > > do = preposition, answer Ä oho, to, for toward, by, within, eg,
            > > > > zaľúbený do = in love with
            > > > >
            > > > > With that basis I think of the use of _do_ forming aliases as Jones
            > > > > do Smith; Jones associated with Smith; Jones by/at Smith;
            > > > >
            > > > > In my own case of alias, I was told that if we encounter too many
            > > > > Vallo,
            > > > we are of the Paul Vallo (Pal in Hungarian). I still have to discover
            > > > that distinction.
            > > > >
            > > > > For anyone having trouble reading the Slovak accents, switch your
            > > > > view
            > > > of character encoding to UTF8.
            > > > >
            > > > > Ron
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
            > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com> , Elaine <epowell@...> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Thanks for these details, Michael, that's helpful.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Elaine
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
            > > > > >
            > > > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:40 PM, "Michael Mojher" <mgmojher@...>
            > > wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > > Elaine,
            > > > > > > I may be corrected, but I seem to remember it as being â?oedoeâ?
            > > > > > > , it
            > > > is the Slovak word for â?oeofâ? . The Latin had the word â?oealiasâ? ,
            > > > so it is not surprising that it would have been used in the church
            > > > records recorded in Latin.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > The surname and â?oedoâ? names were so interchangeable no one
            > > > > > > when
            > > > using the â?oedoâ? name would have considered it being different. It
            > > > was a substituted aide to make sure that the correct information when
            > > > to the proper person. I especially saw this in land records where it
            > > > would be a â?oebig dealâ? that you knew who the proper person was.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > In my village if you say the use of the â?oedoâ? then you
            > > > > > > understood
            > > > there was another person living there that had the same exact name.
            > > > The â?oedoâ? was not used indiscriminately, but with a purpose.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > From: Elaine
            > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:27 AM
            > > > > > > To: SLOVAK-ROOTS@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
            > <mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com>
            > > > > > > Subject: Re: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos
            > > > > > > humenyk
            > > > Grega
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Michael,
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > The situation with family names that you refer to as "do"
            > > occurs
            > > > > > > in
            > > > several of my families also. Is the term "do" a Slovak word, and if
            > > > so, how is it pronounced, "doe" or "doo"? In the church records I
            > > have
            > > > reviewed, this kind of family name has been marked as "alias," at
            > > > least in records done in Latin.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Also, in some of my families, it is hard to tell which of the
            > > > > > > two
            > > > names is the actual family name. In other words, I've seen records
            > > > that put the actual name first and then the alias, but other records
            > > > for the person have the names reversed.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Elaine
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > On Mar 16, 2012, at 11:02 AM, "Michael Mojher" <mailto:
            > <mailto:%0b>
            > > > mgmojher%40verizon.net> wrote:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > Tom,
            > > > >
            > > > > > > > As for the â?oe(humenyk)â? , since there seems to be a large
            > > > > > > > number
            > > > of Grega you may have a case of a â?oedoâ? name as I call it. I found
            > > > in my village that my family has three â?oedoâ? names. Each â?oedoâ?
            > > > name is given to a branch of the family. What the â?oedoâ? name is
            > > used
            > > > to tell two people apart that share the exact same given and
            > > surnames.
            > > > So instead of using the usual surname the â?oedoâ? name for that
            > > person
            > > > would be used. Then there would be no mix up. I found the â?oedoâ?
            > > name
            > > > used in all sort of records. I found that the â?oedoâ? name was
            > > totally
            > > > an oral tradition. So you would have to ask a relative if it was ever
            > > used.
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > From: Tom
            > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:56 PM
            > > > > > > > To: mailto:SLOVAK-ROOTS%40yahoogroups.com
            > > > > > > > Subject: [S-R] Uploaded file of Maria Grega father Janos
            > > > > > > > humenyk
            > > > Grega
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > In researching a family named Humenik, and later called
            > > > > > > > Minnick, I
            > > > found a grandson who was told by his grandmother that the real family
            > > > name was Gregor, and Ellis Island confused a town name of Humenne for
            > > > the last name and they took Humenik as their name. The marriage
            > > record
            > > > for his grandmother indicated date of birth as 27July1894 in
            > > > Hankovce(Hankoc on Hungarian records). Looked on FamilySearch.org,
            > > and
            > > > found a 01Aug1894 record for Maria Grega father Janos(humenyk) Grega.
            > > > Does anyone see a meaning for the not capitalized humenyk on the
            > > > baptismal record? Thanks, Tom
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
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            >
            Tom,

            I visited Brezovica nad Torysu in December, 2010, along with my 93 year
            old sister-in-law. She had been born there in 1917, came to this
            country at the age of three. She had never returned prior to this
            visit. We met a distant relative who had no recollection of her. Her
            maiden name was Klembara.

            Bill Brna


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